Newbie 980 ~ Game Over
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Last edited by CSL on Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
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Earlder1 Goon
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@ Jmurph
I'm largely joking for voting because he was the first one to post, although I think there is slight logic behind it. Scum are going to be more interested because they get to see if their action went through. This also applies to doctors I suppose, but it is less useful information for the town to check soon after the day has begun than scum. But as I said, it's just a weak thought.
My suspicion of Zaj has indeed carried over from the day prior and...
@ Kov
Refer to my post 21 in iso, if you need my reasons. I feel I nicely made a case against him "in my own words" as you seem to think I didn't.
Yeah, the fact that Flay is not dead is pure WIFOM, but cannot be ignored. I know from experience as both scum and town that usually the more experienced, seemingly knowledgeable players are NK'd first in newbie games. That is, unless they are scum. However, WIFOM is still WIFOM and doesn't really change an opinion I have on Flay, at least not yet.
Other than Zaj, I still have my suspicions about Nexus but I will definitely reread to get a better feel for other players that have not left a lasting impression on me (such as jmurph and Beefster).
And I definitely cannot see a Beefster-Flay scum pair from Beefster's post that mentions he expected one of them to die. I see absolutely no scum agenda in this. As for their individual alignments, nothing is really given away but together, I cannot see them as scum.Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.
Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0-
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Beefster Mafia Scum
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Joke voting is usually not a good thing to be doing on D2. There are 18 pages of content. (keep in mind the first few standard mod posts)
FoS: EarlderOn hiatus indefinitely. This was a nice distraction when I was working through my faith transition out of Mormonism, but I need to move on to bigger and better things now.
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jmurph3 Goon
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jmurph3 Goon
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Beefster Mafia Scum
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I remember now that my case was the same as Earlder's. With a few extra points, some more recent:Earlder1 wrote:I think the primary subject that deserves attention is the spontaneous Zaj wagon. It is clear that Zaj has not contributed much, as shown by his 1-3 sentence posts, and occasionally his one word posts such as "jmurph". Although, the seemingly only reason (except for one post of his) for him to be scummy is his lack of contribution, I agree that is a valid reason for a lynch, especially on day 1. We managed to hit 16 pages of activity, which is good, and of course that lends itself to actual cases being built because there is a pool of content to gather information from, but day 1 is still so early. Lynching the lurker is definitely a possibiliy in terms of what will enable town to collectively win later on. even if Zaj is town, his lack of contribution is anti-town, and some would say I am not contributing as much as I should, but I am posting when I can and trying to post content. Regardless, my point is that a Zaj lynch is not a bad idea, and I definitely identify with the reasons behind it.
One other interesting thing about Zaj is this post here:
This is in response to Jmurph questioning why he would be Zaj's second choice for a lynch. This is the second time that Zaj says he would need to do an iso on someone to get a better read. Well, do a frickin' iso then! Zaj adds stimpulations to his scumhunting, which is quite suspect. He says he would take a closer look at Flay IF Haylen flips town, and now he says he would need to do an iso on Jmurph IF he would consider lynching him. Part of staying on track with this game is doing those things that will give you better reads, whether they br prodding someone, doing an iso, or looking at meta. For goodness sake, do them! 1-3 sentences every day or two does not help the town one bit. Also, why so undecided this late into the day. There are 16 pages of content to look at, and all Zaj has to say can be paraphrased as "Haylen is scummy and maybe Jmurph". I'm sorry, but that is not much of an opinion. Overall, I would be perfectly fine with a Zaj lynch, but, as mentioned, his response is critical before this turns into action.Zajnet wrote: Only that you're the only other person I've really seen as scummy so far. I would need to ISO you better before wanting to lynch you, but you're the only other person I'd vote for right now besides Haylen, unless somebody brought up what I find compelling evidence on somebody.
In the Zaj quote, he's basically admitting that he was tunneling. And the matters that he says he's going to ISO/analyze but never does. It's anti-town at the least, scummy at most.
Additionally, it seems odd that yesterday, Zaj was tunneling (more or less) on jmurph, then Haylen. Now he's totally changed targets to Flay. Seems pretty opportunistic to me.
jmurph: I see your point about Mr. Flay. I also see motives behind him not killing me if he is scum- as I agreed with him quite a bit.On hiatus indefinitely. This was a nice distraction when I was working through my faith transition out of Mormonism, but I need to move on to bigger and better things now.
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Earlder1 Goon
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@Beefster
Ok, my little joke at the start of the day is not my reason for voting. My reasons for voting Zaj are outlined in my iso post 21, as I just mentioned. Yes, I made a joke. No, that is not my reason for voting.
@Jmurph
What is contradictory? I am still suspicious of Nexus, but I didn't see a reason to pursue him at the very end of day 1. Now that it's day 2, I am not any less suspicious of him. I am however, still suspicious of Zaj and that is why my vote is there. I see two people as scummy and I can't vote them both.Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.
Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0-
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jmurph3 Goon
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@Earlder: the reason why I see it as contradictory is because you state in your original reasoning that one of the reasons why you're voting Zajnet is because you wouldn't be able to get a lynch on Nexus, meaning that you think Nexus is more scummy. Why then would you not continue pushing a lynch on Nexus instead of Zajnet?-
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Hi. It's your friendly mod here.
I get to spend my scumday with you all! Let's PARTY!Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
"" - AmrunTHETIGERBLOODLUSTWASRUNNINGTHROUGHMYVEINS
V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry!-
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Earlder1 Goon
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Once again, I find them both scummy. I made the comment about not voting for Nexus because I did not think it possible to get a Nexus lynch on day 1. In terms of relative scumminess, I would actually put Zaj as a little scummier because I can maybe excuse some of my issues with Nexus as his playstyle.
Basically, I find them both scummy. I can't vote them both so I am voting one of them. I feel Zaj is more scummy so I am voting him.
If a wagon forms on Nexus, I would be happy to place my vote there as well.Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.
Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0-
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Nexus HemissHe
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Ok.
Going through the past posts, I noticed that Haylen, for all her faults, was building quite a big case on Mr. Flay. Having read jmurph's post as well, I'm beginning to feel that Haylen had a point. Once Mr. Flay got involved, it was difficult for anyone else to get accused. Yes, Zajnet ended up on L-1 too, but I think that was more to do with the fact he had been lurking, whereas Haylen was lynched because the case against her from Flay.
On Kov: I think his post, post 417, indicates he's town, because if he was mafia, that would be a stupid thing to say. "How do you know flay will make it through the night" reeks of trying to make a joke as a townie. HOWEVER. a2rudeboy had a vote on Kov for a long period of time on Day 1, so it might be a revenge kill.
On Earlder: I think that yes, he said "I'm voting you because you posted first" to Zajnet, but I don't think that this means he's scum. However, the fact that he then claimed that it was jokey, backpedalling is in my opinion a sure way to get yourself under suspicion, because it shows desperation to not be lynched. He then tells us to look at his iso post for his actual reasons, why not say that in the first place? Day 2 isn't a day for jokes, as a townie, especially when the town is 2 down. So, that's suspicious to me.
On Zajnet: I find it slightly suspicious that he's gone from lurking to being the first Day 2 poster. However, that might be him being a townie, not wanting the lurking suspicion on him anymore, as it's distracting. I'm gonna watch how he posts for the next couple of days. Also, it was a2rudeboy who put him at L-1 so the kill might've come from him for almost getting him lynched first day.
On Beefster: I'm surprised he wasn't killed last night as well, along with Flay, because they were two of the more analytical. So, that's slightly suspicious. PLus, by bringing up "I'm surprised they didn't lynch me," it could be seen as a scum trying to cover up himself because he is desperate to avoid being seen as scum.
On jmurph: No real suspicion, as I haven't had all game.
On Mr Flay: Tunnelled Haylen, he knows her better than most of us, so probably knew this was how she acted as town, and went ahead anyway. So, most suspicious.
FoS: Earlder1
Vote: Mr FlayTrans rights are human rights.-
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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Argh. I went to see Predators last night, should have stayed home and read this game instead. I've got work today, a meeting and then dinner tonight, then I WILL post here.
I do have to say, though, that I called what's happening today. How many votes have I already accumulated, because of a wagon that 4 other people were on?Retired as of October 2014.-
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Beefster Mafia Scum
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^Posts like this often leave me torn on what to think- On the one hand, they look scummy, but I've noticed that those who make posts like this often turn out to be town. Haylen did it and turned out town, and now Flay's doing it and I have no idea what to make of it. Part of me wants to go the 100% rational route, but the other considers past observations and doubts the rationality.
I really don't think much can be gained from lynching Flay at this point- we should consider other perspectives before making a decision.On hiatus indefinitely. This was a nice distraction when I was working through my faith transition out of Mormonism, but I need to move on to bigger and better things now.
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jmurph3 Goon
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Except that if you actually read my case, you'll notice that none of it is based on the simple fact that you started the Haylen wagon. Let's be honest, I hammered. I clearly thought there was a case there. But using the extra information we now have that Haylen was town, it changes the entire way that we can view D1, and you stuck out like a sore thumb at scum.Mr. Flay wrote:I do have to say, though, that I called what's happening today. How many votes have I already accumulated, because of a wagon that 4 other people were on?
I don't understand this. I guess I don't understand where you're coming from. Nowhere has Flay stuck out as such a pro-town player that we risk things by investigating his play at this point. Voting for Haylen, at least to me, didn't seem like a bad thing at the time, but we have to remember that there's been added information now. Especially because of Flay's first content-filled post I feel like he was steering town in a direction, and truthfully, I fell for it. Still, it's not just the mislynch on Haylen that drives my vote. There's the way I felt he was fishing for power roles. I also don't like the way he was tunneling (which he will probably deny). Granted, we all kind of jumped at Haylen, but I feel like he was really the one who started it and carried it through to completion. And there's the fact that he never took his vote off of her. There's just a lot of reasons why I really don't trust him at the moment and would like to hear an actual response from him instead of brushing off the case against him like it's strictly because of the Haylen mislynch.Beefster wrote:I really don't think much can be gained from lynching Flay at this point- we should consider other perspectives before making a decision.
Even with this, I don't disagree with continuing scumhunting. D2 has a long way to go still. However, I'm very wary of Mr. Flay at this point. I'm not sure if I will be able to get past this. Most of all, I think it's key that we all keep posting (Zajnet, I'm looking at you - I really don't want a policy lynch on D2).-
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Beefster Mafia Scum
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I just mean don't lynch him right now. There are other things we should look at. The scumhunting is fine; I just don't want us to be tunneling in on Flay. Because if he's town, it'll turn out the same way as Haylen. That's all I was saying.On hiatus indefinitely. This was a nice distraction when I was working through my faith transition out of Mormonism, but I need to move on to bigger and better things now.
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jmurph3 Goon
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Earlder1 Goon
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@ Flay
Posts like those don't help. There is clear AtE, especially with the added eye rolling smiley. It's fine is you predicted a wagon on yourself if Haylen flipped town. Haylen clearly thought you were scummy, so that is perfectly understandable. Also, you have the same number of votes as Zaj if my memory serves, and it's only 2. There is no need to complain about it. Posts like these do not help the town and only serve to try and make people feel bad for suspecting you. Please provide a more analytical and logical response.
@ Jmurph
Townies create cases on townies and tunnel townies all the time. Why does this signify Flay as scum?Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.
Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0-
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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I have NOT read any of the cases on me yet; I scanned the thread and saw my name in practically every post.
I thought I'd be able to post tonight, but I'm hot and tired and my computer is acting stupid. I ask for another 24 hours; if I can't get back here by then, I'll ask CSL for replacement, though I don't want to replace out of a replacement IC slot. I'm just too mad to post coherently right now (it's already 2AM here and I just got to the site).Retired as of October 2014.-
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Beefster Mafia Scum
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Is he flaking?On hiatus indefinitely. This was a nice distraction when I was working through my faith transition out of Mormonism, but I need to move on to bigger and better things now.
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Zajnet Mafia Scum
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Hai. I'm back. I really find Flay to be scummy in the reread, and I think he's a good enough player to play well anyways. I'm really trusting Haylen's read there.
VOTE: Mr. Flay
Now to address a misrep while I was away:
Umm, what? My scumlist from yesterday was a2rudeboy, jmurph, and Flay. The fact that a2 died makes jmurph and Flay top 2. Flay gets moved up to #1 because of Haylen's read.Beefster wrote:Additionally, it seems odd that yesterday, Zaj was tunneling (more or less) on jmurph, then Haylen. Now he's totally changed targets to Flay. Seems pretty opportunistic to me.My GTKAS
"okay who the fuck didnt kill me." - nintendoaddict1-
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jmurph3 Goon
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It doesn't by itself, but in combination with other things, it does. It's not just the fact that he tunneled on someone who flipped town. That would be a null-tell in and of itself. Instead, it's the way he went about doing it.Earlder1 wrote:@ Jmurph
Townies create cases on townies and tunnel townies all the time. Why does this signify Flay as scum?
As a further example, I did some digging. I know personally one of the things that really drew me into Flay's argument and made me trust him was in his first content-filled post when he said this about millar13:
Personally, I took this at face value and used it as further justification for the scum vibes I was getting from Haylen. But much like how Haylen's graph on my posting didn't tell the whole story, neither does this post. After all, Mr. Flay almost dismisses millar's general crap play. He implies that millar's modkill was out of the ordinary, but in this game, millar was denied the win after he replaced in and was a complete a$$hole, and he was townie in that situation. In addition, the first game that Flay mentions didn't happen the way he claims it did; millar indeed requested replacement but then just as quickly unrequested it. He was never replaced in that game.Mr. Flay wrote:millar13 is... being millar13, on page 1-2. Did he get force-replaced? Ohhh no, he asked for replacement. Interesting. On a sidebar I looked at millar's meta when he's scum: Only two I found, weirdly, is a mini where he also requested replacement (page 4) after getting heat, and a mini where he was modkilled for incredibly rude behavior. Very interesting indeed... yes, I know millar's a Village Idiot in general, but he doesn't usually get tossed out of games. I don't think he likes being scum...
Mr. Flay is a good player, and I think he realized that most of us would never look much closer at the examples he posted and instead just take his word for it. I did, and we mislynched because of it. To me, this is just further evidence of Mr. Flay's scummy play.
On a different note,@Mod: I will be V/LA until Tuesday 10 August.
Noted.-
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jmurph3 Goon
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Last edited by CSL on Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
"" - AmrunTHETIGERBLOODLUSTWASRUNNINGTHROUGHMYVEINS
V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry!-
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Earlder1 Goon
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You make some interesting remarks Jmurph, and I will make sure to consider them when I reread Flay.
Regardless, should he really be at L-1 already?
Even if people find him scummy, we just started day 2. I see it as far too risky to have him sitting there with only a hammer needed. Plus, this is all tunnelling. Even if the majority of the town think Flay is scummy now, don't just sit with your vote on him. Throw your vote around and let's get some discussion rolling. In my last game (Newbie 963), I won as scum by just voting twice (then double voting with my partner on day 3 ftw) and keeping my vote where it was until people joined me and mislynched. Don't let scum do this here.
I've been pretty busy these last few days, but I plan on rereading soon and creating a case on a player who's name is not Flay or Zajnet. Hopefully that will spur discussion and attention to people other than Flay.Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.
Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0-
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Bump to get votecount on next page.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
"" - AmrunTHETIGERBLOODLUSTWASRUNNINGTHROUGHMYVEINS
V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry!
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