Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[vezokpiraka]

I didn't knew about SSBF post before.
You see there are no avatars there. I didn't bother to check that until after I had posted.
Yes I care what others post.

[Friend]

Vezo, why did you ask me for my top two scumpicks and then not even talk about them afterwards? Seems to me like some fake scumhunting going on.

[KageLord]

I didn't knew about SSBF post before.
You see there are no avatars there.

I didn't bother to check that until after I had posted.

Yes I care what others post.

Why not (asking about the part I bolded)?

Also, I suppose it would be

possible

that it was just your negligence about checking the post made before yours that made it look like you were sheeping SSBF as well, but there are two main reasons why I think that is unlikely. The first reason is that, if things did happen the way you say they did, that means your little post took at least 6 minutes to write. It doesn't seem like a few lines should take that long. The second, and I think more concrete, reason is the common phrase in your post and SSBF's. It's possible that you both came up with exactly the same idea/defense, but you use the same phrase, which is "noob pass" (although SSBF wrote it "n00b pass"). Coincidence? I think not.

Edit after preview: And I see Friend has another issue for you to answer.

[vezokpiraka]

I was scum hunting. I asked friend a question so I can get him out of the neutral zone. I liked his response and now he's in the town pile. You will see that after I post all my reads.

It doesn't take 6 minutes to write a post but my Phone rang and I answered it in the middle of the post.
I think it's a coincidence with that noob pass.

[KageLord]

So you're giving tasky the noob pass but you're voting for me because of sheepping?
You sure you're not scum with Tasky?

EBWOP: That "few lines" I mention above is actually these two. Looking at it again... I'd say this should take a max of 3 minutes to right and submit.

Edit after preview: So... it seems fate really dislikes you in this game, vezo. Two coincidences like that to make it look like you were sheeping in your defense/counterattack after being accused of sheeping.

It intrigues me that vezo puts Friend in the "town pile" for saying he suspects vezo himself. O.o

[KageLord]

EBWOP: ^ That should be "write and submit", not "right and submit".

/self grammar nazi

[vezokpiraka]

I suspect people one at a time. If that player is clearly town I put him into the town pile. If not I get him at neutral and ask a question.
I wanted to see who he suspects. People usually suspect me if I don't have a PR and I'm uncced.

Fate (not the player) hates me. I learned too not think about it.

[Oso]

VOTE: KageLord

You case on vezo starts well no doubt about that. Points in there that made me go back and look myself.

You started to make me doubt you when you said this:

- snip -

....The first reason is that, if things did happen the way you say they did, that means your little post took at least 6 minutes to write. It doesn't seem like a few lines should take that long....

- snip -

Using out of game reasoning to base an in-game scumcall on. Bells start ringing. Any good player would know that it is impossible to base anything off of post time unless there is a wide gap (much more than 6 minutes) before trying to call bullshit on a ninja post. Since I'm not going to assume anyone is a bad player, I have to assume there is a reason behind that statement.

The here:

- snip -

EBWOP: That "few lines" I mention above is actually these two. Looking at it again... I'd say this should take a max of 3 minutes to right and submit.

- snip -

Now I'm sure he's scum. He narrows the time for calling vezo a liar.

What if I told you that it took me about 45 minutes to compose this and someone posted something similar just as i started? Would I be auto scummed in your eyes because of the discrepancy if I said I didn't preview before post and I was ninja'd. I mean, my god it's 45 minutes. Doesn't take into account the 4 phone calls I had though. The broke neighbor coming by to ask if he could bum a couple of cigarettes and the trip I made outside to smoke myself while filling up the outside cat's water dish so they don't maybe, I don't know, die of thirst because it's summer.

That didn't happen with this post because it didn't take 45 minutes but what I just described is pretty much the types of posting interruptions I deal with all the time during the weekdays.

And KageLord is trying to push a 6 minute, outside the game, discrepancy? Scummier than a stagnant frog pond in August is what that is.

[diddin]

True Oso, but all of that was written before he saw Vezo's post explaining why the post took particularly long to write. However, KageLord doesn't unvote afterward, which makes it seriously look like he's grasping for straws here.

FoS: KageLord

[q21]

ITT defending people is a scumtell

I'm not saying Tasky is or isn't scum, which Jay doesn't seem to get. I'm saying he was NOT rolefishing with his RQs. Nothing more, nothing less.

The suspicion on Tasky stemmed from the rolefishing accusations. By trying to invalidate that you are trying to invalidate the suspicion on Tasky, ergo you are defending him.

Also, I agree with Oso that the 6 minute time discrepancy is about as null as they come. Worth a question or two maybe, but nowhere near the pressure Kagelord has put on it.

Vote: Kagelord.

My badwagon obviously wasn't working out, its time for a Kagelord wagon.

Just a reminder: you need to unvote before you vote again. I know it's a not a big thing, but to keep the rules consistent throughout the game, your vote will not be counted if your vote is already on somebody else and you haven't unvoted first.

[Oso]

True Oso, but all of that was written before he saw Vezo's post explaining why the post took particularly long to write. However, KageLord doesn't unvote afterward, which makes it seriously look like he's grasping for straws here.

FoS: KageLord

I t wasn't particularly long. That was the point of my post.

The scumminess of using a discrepancy like that to call scum, isn't that it he made it before vezo's explanation, it is that he tried used the discrepancy at all. Town don't (or shouldn't) use it. They may think it, I have myself on several occasions and discarded it, but the only reason I can see to use it in game is by scum trying to pile on as many reasons as they can for a lynch.

This may be just my view but using OOC actions to base in game decisions on is only non-scummy when doing the lurker hunt thing and only if you get a cycle of prod->excuse/no content post->prod->excuse/no content post and even there, mod replacement rather than lynching is a better option.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Some things about diddin that I really don't like about him:

ISO: 4: Votes Tasky due to the contradiction that Oso pointed out at Tasky. Sounds like a bit of sheeping, especially since he doesn't provide his own reason for voting vezokpiraka.

ISO: 7: Puts a FoS on vezokpiraka due to the backpeddling. This is probably influenced by Friend's #98 where he said that vezokpiraka's unvote especially reeked because in his next post, he said that vezokpiraka called Tasky scum. The paragraph where diddin FoS'd vezokpriaka is also basically parroting Friend's last post.

ISO: 9: Unvotes vezokpiraka due to bandwagon going too quickly. If he was at L-1, then I could understand, but vezokpiraka was at L-2, so it doesn't make sense to unvote. The votecount probably would have stop further voting of vezokpiraka for awhile anyway. Beside, it's good to pressure people anyway.

diddin's play looks relatively oppertunistic and not in a good way. It seems like he's trying to join bandwagon so he doesn't have to make real cases on people on his own instead see what other people have to say and go from there.

ITT defending people is a scumtell

I'm not saying Tasky is or isn't scum, which Jay doesn't seem to get. I'm saying he was NOT rolefishing with his RQs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Defending people is a scum tell, period. Defending a person establish a connection between you and that person you're defending. If the person you're defending flips scum, this can help people catch you if you're scum. If you're town, it's going to make you look bad. And it does not matter how you defended Tasky, it is still a scum tell.

[Tasky]

Defending people is a scum tell, period.

Defending a person establish a connection between you and that person you're defending. If the person you're defending flips scum, this can help people catch you if you're scum. If you're town, it's going to make you look bad. And it does not matter how you defended Tasky, it is still a scum tell.

wow... where did you get that from? I don't like people who use such generalized statements to support their arguments... mafia doesn't work that was, every situation is new...
and pointing out a logical fallacy in an attack is somehow a form of defense, isn't it? would you call that a scum-tell?

[KageLord]

You started to make me doubt you when you said this:

- snip -

....The first reason is that, if things did happen the way you say they did, that means your little post took at least 6 minutes to write. It doesn't seem like a few lines should take that long....

- snip -

Using out of game reasoning to base an in-game scumcall on. Bells start ringing. Any good player would know that it is impossible to base anything off of post time unless there is a wide gap (much more than 6 minutes) before trying to call bullshit on a ninja post. Since I'm not going to assume anyone is a bad player, I have to assume there is a reason behind that statement.

Well first of all, I admitted in that post that this was the less concrete reason of the two. Second, I think any discrepancy is enough to at least bring up. By "out of game reasoning", I assume you mean the reasoning of how long it should take to post two sentences. I really don't know what to say to that, since I would think it to be common logic. The evidence is circumstantial, to be sure, and if that was what the entire case was based around, it would surely be unworthy of mention. However, it's just a small part of the case to undermine the defense (not as much to add on to the attack).

The here:

- snip -

EBWOP: That "few lines" I mention above is actually these two. Looking at it again... I'd say this should take a max of 3 minutes to right and submit.

- snip -

Now I'm sure he's scum. He narrows the time for calling vezo a liar.

What if I told you that it took me about 45 minutes to compose this and someone posted something similar just as i started? Would I be

auto scummed

in your eyes because of the discrepancy if I said I didn't preview before post and I was ninja'd. I mean, my god it's 45 minutes. Doesn't take into account the 4 phone calls I had though. The broke neighbor coming by to ask if he could bum a couple of cigarettes and the trip I made outside to smoke myself while filling up the outside cat's water dish so they don't maybe, I don't know, die of thirst because it's summer.

That didn't happen with this post because it didn't take 45 minutes but what I just described is pretty much the types of posting interruptions I deal with all the time during the weekdays.

And KageLord is trying to push a 6 minute, outside the game, discrepancy? Scummier than a stagnant frog pond in August is what that is.

First of all, who is being auto scummed? Not once did I ever say I'm 100% sure that vezo is scum (though you said that about me with, at least in my mind, much less substantial evidence). And as stated above, that's just one point in the case, neither the main one nor what the whole case is based around.

Next, there is clearly a big difference between your post and vezo's that I quoted. Can you tell what it is? Well, if you just take my words there literally, you might notice it is that your post is 'big'. The time needed to make your post here is pretty much unknown. For reasons that you mentioned and just peoples' typing and thinking speeds in general, I would have no way of even guessing how long this post took you. On the other hand, pretty much no matter how slow you type, two lines in 6 minutes is a long time.

Now, when I was posting that EBWOP, vezo posted the reason that it took him 6 minutes. His reason is perfectly understandable, since we all (or most of us, anyway) get phone calls at possibly inconvenient times. The only question left then is if you believe 'both of my points were coincidences (the phone happened to ring while vezo was writing those two lines and vezo just happened to use the same term SSBF had used, "noob pass", to describe a reaction to Tasky) and that vezo really just didn't read SSBF's post during the preview and just read it after' or 'vezo is scum trying to cover his tracks'.

The reason I didn't unvote in my "edit after preview" was that I chose to believe the latter until further evidence changed my view or there was someone else that I could be more certain was scum.

By the way, noticing how fast wagons are forming here, I just want to urge everyone to (in case they didn't already plan on doing this) hold off on hammering when someone is L-1 until the accused at least has a chance to post again. Quicklynching is scum's friend, not ours.

[Friend]

Defending people is a scum tell, period. Defending a person establish a connection between you and that person you're defending. If the person you're defending flips scum, this can help people catch you if you're scum. If you're town, it's going to make you look bad. And it does not matter how you defended Tasky, it is still a scum tell.

This might, by a small margin, be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
SSBF, what if the person I'm defending flips town? Is that still a scumtell?
Defending people I think is town is how mislynches DON'T occur. If that person flips scum, well then I look pretty bad, and I agree hardcorely defending someone who flips scum warrants serious suspicion. BUT if they flip town, it's definitely NOT a scumtell, and until Tasky flips, it's not a scumtell either.

[quadz08]

Defending people is a scum tell, period.

Heaven forbid I have a differing opinion on a player from someone else, amirite? That was a very foolish statement, methinks.

As to the vezok posting-time controversy: I don't think the length of time it took is really the issue. It's negligence, quite simply. He has only himself to blame for not seeing that post, and even if he didn't see/read it before he posted, it's his responsibility to keep up with what was posted, and an EBWOP wouldn't have been so difficult to make.

[Friend]

I think KageLord's case is a big stretch. Vezo is scummy for other reasons, but not the timing thing.

[quadz08]

I may be somewhat V/LA this weekend, just as a warning. I'm not sure how often I'll be able to post.

Noted.

[totallynotmafia]

Vote count 1.3

Oso (0)
Tasky (1) Super Smash Bros. Fan
KageLord (1) Oso
Friend (1) jayfl383
q21 (1) q21
jayfl383 (0)
xvart (1) ChibiSanNub
quadz08 (0)
diddin (1) xvart
vezokpiraka (4) Tasky, Friend, KageLord, quadz08
ChibiSanNub (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: diddin, vezokpiraka

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is July 21, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

[vezokpiraka]

Wagon analysis.
We have tasky and friend. One who got a wagon formed on him at the beginning and one who defended him. KageLord - the one who is pushing a wagon on me for out of game reasons. We may have all the three(?) scums here.

I will

Vote KageLord

I really don't like his last few posts. He comes as incredibly scummy to me.

[q21]

Defending people is a scum tell, period.

Bullshit. There are situations where it is not. Situations where it is even a towntell. You're trying to turn a circumstantial point into a concrete one. It won't work.

[q21]

Mod:

I'm voting KageLord.

Also, vezo's OMGUS is noted.

[vezokpiraka]

@q21: The mod said that you have to unvote first in order for your vote to count.

[KageLord]

Wagon analysis.
We have tasky and friend. One who got a wagon formed on him at the beginning and one who defended him. KageLord - the one who is pushing a wagon on me for out of game reasons. We may have all the three(?) scums here.

I will

Vote KageLord

I really don't like his last few posts. He comes as incredibly scummy to me.

... I am so glad to see that you are not sheeping. I don't know why we ever suspected you of it with original thoughts like that.

[/sarcasm]

[q21]

Oh...

Unvote, vote KageLord

Thanks vezo, your vote was still OMGUS, though.