Open 230 - Bird 7 - Game Over

[mykonian]

good. Before we start: I haven't played for a short time because I wasn't completely happy with my playstyle. So if I don't find scum the first day, you know it is because my scumdar has gotten a little bit dusty

[mykonian]

So you're basically saying: don't listen to me when I say stupid thing? Hey everyone, there's scum making excuses over here!
just kidding, I understand

saying stupid things was my previous playstyle. It would have worked if I got the jester role more often.

[mykonian]

/confirm

on this moment, I have a few suspects. XScorpion is always scum, even if he role pm disagrees. Don_Johnson lurks when he is scum, and he isn't here. Budja is one that I wouldn't vote for, he gives me good vibes. (although I am not perfectly happy with his vote )

@the other players: have I forgotten about you or don't you know me either?

[mykonian]

Glad to see you recognise my obv-towniness ...and yet all those suspects and I see no vote.

Your observation is correct. But the meaning of it isn't clear to me. I have named suspects, and a vote would just be symbolic. So unless you are a person who scumhunts on gests and sitewide habits, your observation doesn't add a lot to the game.

Now, assuming you are a clever person, you knew this. You probably wouldn't make a post for just that empty statement, that observation. However, I see you did post, meaning that:

Glad to see you recognise my obv-towniness

...and yet all those suspects and I see no vote.

is most likely the reason that you posted.

Why are you so eager to call yourself town?

[mykonian]

5) Do not edit your posts if you are able to do so. Do not use small or hidden text.

You are so lucky our mod isn't known for following his own (?) rules stricktly.

[mykonian]

I have a hunch. VOTE: Cirdua.

[mykonian]

I have seen a game where town succesfully lynched day one, after 3 pages, the one shot vig shot that night the remaining scum and the game was over.

Post game discussion was longer then the game itself

Apart from the vigging, I wonder: What could stop me here?

[mykonian]

mmm, so you are telling me I should be quick with the hammer?

[mykonian]

Well Mykonian, if you're scum, go ahead and quickhammer and we can lynch you tomorrow.

finally, a reaction.

Now, I wonder, why do you assume the lynch will be incorrect? While you are voting for him!

unvote

VOTE: Xscorpion

Thank you scum, for this wonderful insight.

[mykonian]

you need 3 full sentences to talk 1 sentence straight again. Not a great sign scorpion.

and please don't cry, tears make it hard to read the game. If you were town, you wouldn't make a problem of giving your opinions.

[mykonian]

Cirdua, claim now please.

[mykonian]

ok, please don't ask me anything about the above post till Cirdua is back. I won't answer.

Now, for a new fresh start: Robocopter, if you were scum, would you interact with your partner during the game? (agreeing with him often, voting for him, bussing him, etc.)

You know what, Don and AV, could you answer that too?

Edit as Robo posted: there is a reason. I promis I'll explain before this day ends.

[mykonian]

I know epicmafia, I have played there quite some time (I started here though). The game there didn't suit me really, so you won't find me there anymore.

But your post, AV strikes me as odd. First you say you do have experience in playing mafia, and with the quick games of Epicmafia you must have been scum quite a few times. But then you switch to how you should play, not how you expect yourself to play.

I'd like that answer AV, it is quite simple. Are you the kind of person who interacts heavily with his/her partner (distancing or fake buddying), or are you trying to make sure we don't find out by not interacting a lot with your partner. It is a question of playstyles (and personality).

About your question. There is a reason, I was interested in Robo first, he is the player I know least about now. When I had finished the question, I liked it and I added your names.

[mykonian]

it didn't really help that you hammered on page 5. With 2 pages of pregame discussion. Can't really say that I was up to steam with my scumhunting yet. I'm quite surprised nobody has even talked about this. Both Robo and AV show little sings of scumhunting. Aurora, what did you think of DJ hammering, and what do you think about Cirdua staying off the wagon (while the whole town was practically on it).

Robo, did you know that with 4 players on a lynch, scum is most often on the third spot?

[mykonian]

sorry, I was talking about today, Aurorus. I thought this was clear. Everybody should have said something about DJ, unless they had a good reason not to. My reason was that DJ was my best townread in the game. Yours it clearly wasn't so I have absolutely no idea why you didn't start with it directly. DJ gave the correct example how you should start a day: with scumhunting. (but damn, if you do it, don't count the amount of posts )

Aurorus, I have trouble following who you think scum. Would you mind posting your opinions about every player? (doesn't have to be too long, just so I know where you stand)

[mykonian]

misreps happen to me. My written english isn't the best, although I usually understand as good as my language when I have to read it. Don't worry too much about it. Neither will I when I think you haven't understood me properly (so I wasn't accusing you, I just thought you hadn't understood my question the way I intended)

Anyway, what I thought of the hammer. It is very town-DJ and absolutely not Scum-DJ. DJ his meta is quite different for both cases and he would absolutely never have done it this way as scum. It was a fast hammer, but clearly one he believed in. (as a support of this statement, DJ and I have played a few games together, one as scumpartners.) This leads me to believe DJ must be town.

[mykonian]

Waaaa -- I was so slow to post my response that there's been a cop-claim since I started posting it Now I get why you cleared Robocopter so off-handedly. If you're telling the truth, then we've got our Ciruda/Mykonian scumteam. I'll wait to see what they say before doing anything else as well.

Aurorus, you are explaining why Don is the cop. Brilliant. Don sets up his claim, you as his partner link it to his previous play.

@Don: you are such a fool. You don't get it yet, but you had the game in your hands with me thinking you were town. I was completely set on a Aurorus-Cirdua scumteam after the rather odd extension of the night (I thought Cirdua was the cause, and because he couldn't be the Doc, I tried to force him into a fakeclaim). I got a guilty on Aurorus and I tunneled on Cirdua-Aurorus. When Cirdua claimed vanilla I would have accused him this way, claimed my guilty on Aurorus and set up both lynches. Don, you would have won in Lylo.

But here you make a mess of it, thanks to your nervous reaction to a little pressure (Really, with me and aurorus on your side, you couldn't get lynched, so why do this?). You make the game clear to me, giving me my second "guilty".

to clarify for everybody who hasn't understood yet, I am the cop and I investigated Aurorus and found him scum

.

Now this is a 50-50 game. Robo is confirmed town, and the scumteam is either Don-aurorus or Myk-cirdua. So from now on I won't bother with aurorus and Don, Robo is my man

vote Don Johnson, HoS AV

Explanation of my actions:

After day 1, I had townreads on Budja, Don and myself. With 3 players left, I hoped to investigate someone as town, incriminating both others and possibly setting up a town voting block. Both Cirdua and Robo weren't that great that day, so I tried Aurorus.

With the night taking longer and the only reason I could think of being Cirdua being important at night and the mod a horrible person for showing that, my plan became to force him into a claim. Either he would be scum and fakeclaim, or he would be a town powerrole and scum could have figured the same out anyway. Claiming couldn't hurt the town. With the doc dying that night, I was sure Cirdua would be scum and would claim Cop, which would be a lot of fun.

During that time, I read through Aurorus, trying to find if there were links with Cirdua. There were. Aurorus voted Cirdua as RV, never attacked him again and even quite obviously defended cirdua or said that it wasn't that bad with him. Aurorus his history showed only 3 newby games, so I underestimated him He set the defending of Cirdua up and fooled me completely.

But I didn't know that on that moment and I tried to put Aurorus into trouble by asking him how he would interact with his partner. Telling the truth would be troublesome for scum (we might find his partner that way), but on the other hand, if AV lied, we might find out too, so I expected something from that. Aurorus avoided the question mostly, talked about how he should play and how he wanted to play. It didn't matter to me, I thought I already had my scumteam, but I wanted a grand "I knew it all along" party when I claimed, with evidence that would be so clear that the game was over.

If you have any questions, Robo, please ask.

[mykonian]

^Surprise, surprise, the obligatory counter-claim with fake report.

I wasn't defending his claim, I was saying that if he'd been the cop, the operative word being "if". Since I'd seen him as scummy since yesterday, I was ready to doubt his claim if only you'd had a guilty report on someone else, scum.

If you'd had a guilty report on Robocopter, for example, I'd have been convinced that

you

were the real cop

(but he would have then been in my position and known that you were scum). But you've obviously gone for the fake report to save your scumbuddy Ciruda.

So now I'll ask the cop, do you still want to lynch Ciruda over Mykonian?

See the bolded.

If I were to fakeclaim, wouldn't it make more sense to claim a guilty on Robo, as you in the quoted part below picked me as your favorite townie I would have gotten it for sure. I could also have let Cirdua fakeclaim and go to lylo with two vanilla's. Both make much more sense then what you claim happened

No I think of it:

DJ was your top scum pick. I was your best town read

. And now suddenly that turned around 180 degrees... What a surprise!

I could have started with it directly but you had already beaten me to the first post of the day and started with something else so I wanted to deal with that before moving onto other things. If I'd just started about something else, I have a feeling that you'd have criticised me for avoiding answering the question (you accused me of this even when I did answer the question xD). Incidentally, you've talked about the hammer, but not said what you thought of it. Care to expand on your thoughts?

As for my reads;

-Unless DJ has a convincing reason for his hammer, I'd put him at #1 scummiest based on that (I've explained my thoughts on the hammer above). I was getting a neutral-to-townie vibe until he ended the day so abruptly.

-Unlike DJ, I don't see Robocopter's early claim as necessarily indicating a vanilla townie. He seemed blasé about being lynched, so I don't think he thought he was under that much pressure. The early claim can be a sign of scum, so I'd say I'm wary of him. He didn't really do that much yesterday, so I'm uncomfortable with him and would put him at #2 due to my read on you and my lack of read on Ciruda. But this is more of a speculative suspicion than anything really solid as of yet.

-I like your scumhunting posts, I don't like your misrepresentations, but it looks like this last one was a misunderstanding on my part, so I'll let that issue slide. You didn't really do much yesterday either, but you've started quite aggressively today with lots of questions (which I like and think gets you townie points). On the other hand, you could have already planned your aggressiveness last night and coordinated with a scum partner (but I don't think that's what's happened). You're my strongest town-read out of everyone, because you've been the most pro-active in scumhunting.

-I have a neutral read on Cirdua because he's not posted much to judge him by. I think even just plain lurking is a null-tell, because townies do it just as much as scum in my experience, but that could be more common in Newbie games where most of my games on-site have been.

-I have a townie-read on AurorusVox.

You are so screwed

[mykonian]

O god why am I in the hot seat?

Alright, question myk,
if you got a guilty on Aurorus why not vote him instead of DJ?

It is even really. Don has fakeclaimed cop. He can't be the cop because I am, so he is scum.

You are confirmed town now. Sucks to be you. Town wants you attention and scum is going to try to trouble you view. Don't let them. The situation is simple. Either it is me and cirdua, or Don and Aurorus.

Aurorus is scum with don because he first stated don was scummiest and I towniest, after the claim (where it is win or lose) this suddenly is completely the other way. There is no reason for this. A clearer tell you aren't going to get.

[mykonian]

I won't. The more we post the more you'll get confused. Plus that it is absolutely clear that they are scum. You are already getting confused by the mess they are making now.

Aurorus switched his stances completely around this claim, and suddenly went from attacking Don to feircely defending his claim.

this is the point that makes it most clear

.

Further, I can only advice you to stay with your reads from before the game became a mess. This is a general truth: for that you had a whole thread to get that read, and it would be foolish to let the game depend on the last page.

Don is scum, I'm the cop. We win if we lynch Aurorus and Don.

[mykonian]

won't help you either. Or he is scum with me, or he is town and knows the situation.

Before I go, I'll try to make you understand the situation.

Assuming Don is town: he says you are town. I counterclaimed so I must be scum. He can't see an Aurorus-myk scumteam (neither can I), so Cirdua and Myk would be scum.
Assuming Myk is town: he says Aurorus is scum. Don fakeclaimed so he must be scum too. Leaves Robo and Cirdua as town.

Cirdua has no real choice. He knows he is town so Don and Aurorus are most likely scum (unless something freaky is going on and Aurorus and Myk are together)

[mykonian]

stop hiding!

Cirdua will add more "WIFOM" and if you are so incapable of unraveling it, then you won't gain anything. All mafia is WIFOM because you are never sure of what someone else says.

So in stead of waiting and absolutely doing nothing, reread:

Pick every possibility: reread once assuming I'm scum with Cirdua, then do the same with Don and AV. See what fits best and then dare to vote. Nobody can help you here.[/quote]

[mykonian]

You are kidding me. I am definately not scummy.

anyway, congrats scum. Please vote and get this over with.

[mykonian]

So, your still living.

No, I'm not. You chose wrong and we are going to lose. Afterwards you'll see how obvious it was.

[mykonian]

Just after the claim, when suddenly the team don-AV started playing as a team, I was sure we were going to win. They posted a mess, but until that I had played a solid game, hadn't really the time to do anything scummy and I was the only one that had told his story that could be checked with multiple posts. I couldn't see town losing this one.

Then this post came:

O god why am I in the hot seat?

Alright, question myk,
if you got a guilty on Aurorus why not vote him instead of DJ?

The first sentence could just be an exclamation, but the question was

totally irrelevant

. It was clear Robo didn't follow what was going on. With any decent player there, scum would have had the smaller chances, but in this case where they got a newby that was easily confused and didn't know how to handle the situation it actually became a 50/50.

I have tried to show him by facts how obvious it was, and when he clearly didn't listen anymore, trying to get him out of the confusing mess to reread the game before all that happened: with a decent reread he must have seen that my story fitted, don had only "I act scummy on day 1 as PR's" and Aurorus his distancing-team move and that they must be scum.

10 minutes later Robo voted because AV made a lot of posts, and I sounded "angry" in the last. I feel like it is a stolen win, tbh.

[mykonian]

ok, most annoyance about the game is gone: now the next step.

Phaen, this probably was a first time you modded, but really I expect a little more from a mod. It was fortunate this was a small game, but if you are as active as this all the time you have a big chance you are going to kill your own game. I've found that the mod's activity is quite important for the game's activity. You were lucky you didn't have so search for replacements or prod a lot, because a few players gone, together with the late start and the very long night could have set the game into collective lurking.

If you go and make a mini-themed setup (which I do advice you: creating a setup is one part of being a good mod, and you can get help from setup-reviewers (see appropriate topic in MD)), you could keep it either somewhat smaller, or you could really force yourself to take a look at it often, checking if someone needs prodding, making a votecount etc.

Please take this as constructive criticism. It is intended that way.

[mykonian]

in case someone isn't there, just stick to your deadline. Put in the rules that no action before deadline means you don't get an action. Yes it screws the town, but inactivity does that anyway. Replacing is also a good idea if someone really isn't there.

@Robo: I know, but that has either to do with confidence, and otherwise simply trying to get a clear mind about what is going on.

[mykonian]

I think DJ's claim was ballsy, and I thought it was because he suspected Cirdua of being the cop but it looks like it paid off Myk's cop claim post was more convincing, I think, but when he started rushing Robocopter to not wait for Cirdua, that seemed to be the thing that turned Robocopter the other way. I mean, RC thought DJ was scummiest before the cop claims came in

He was clearly letting you confuse him. Waiting longer wouldn't make anything better if you simply don't get what is going on.

It looks like I did quite well at hiding the scumteam before that, and I only got investigated because you thought I was town? So at least I know my scumgame is alright :p I guess it didn't matter that I defended DJ at the end because even if I hadn't, you (Myk) would have known that there was the scumteam right there But I still don't get why you thought I would continue to think DJ was scummiest, when I had to pretend that his counterclaim had a fake report? If you're the fake cop, DJ must be the real one :O

As town, you wouldn't have anyway of knowing DJ was the real cop. In case it came to me and DJ, your strongest reads, you pick me over DJ 90% of the time. Which you didn't, of course, because you were scum

The stated story was partly made up, I'm afraid. I had very little reads, budja was a very weak one. I was merely taking one of the two followers on the lynch. It was a 50-50 between you and Robo

Yay, no more obsessive re-reading to check that my posts aren't scummy before posting them

they are, but I won't tell you until I am in a game where you are scum again As soon as I had that report, the tells were so easy to find. I don't mean to add pressure

[mykonian]

I'm annoyed with the weaknesses if that wasn't clear yet. I feel like any decent player on Robo's position could have won the game.

[mykonian]

Hey, please don't frame the loss on me.

Xscorp could've helped out a little and not acted like bait.

You could have been a little more calm in the LyLo so I would listen to you.

AV did a good job. Don kinda, but it kinda fit the cop role so it was OK I guess.

This loss is not all my fault.

I know scorp. It won't help whatever I say.

I told you a general truth: read

before

it became a mess. You didn't.

Now, and this is the most important bit: why would I be calm? I was a towny and another towny couldn't see the truth. it is maddening. While a scum who is losing is going to sound defeated, desperate, etc. You make up a tell: being calm=being towny.

Seriously, that is not my problem. You are going to be wrong with me everytime that way.

[mykonian]

Next time I'll swear, you know I'm a towny. I also noticed you called me stupid there. I love you.

[mykonian]

shouldn't be posting this late, I'm sorry I overreacted.