Open 237 - Vengeful Mafia (Game Over!)

[SFG]

Ditto is a hydra account between Haylen and ZazieR, like the player list says.

Suddenly, a lowing is herd and a large number of cattle stampede through the town square. When the dust clears, a message has been hoofed into the dirt!

Votecount #2, Day 1

Kov (1) - CSL
CSL (1) - Ditto
nopointinactingup (0)
Yosarian2 (1) - nopointinactingup
Ditto (1) - Kov
Not Voting (1) - Yosarian2

[Ditto]

Yos, I don't know what side a Vig is on, so you tell me

*whips* How do you know Haylen wrote that and not me?

*whips* When you try to act like me, do it the right way!
Besides, I am the only one with the REAL Whip of Justice.

Anyways:
@Kov: Are you familiar with day-talking? And if so, how?
@Yos: Have you played a vengeful before. And if so, link?

@Nopoint
It's up to my other half to decide if it should be explained why we're hydra-ing.

[Kov]

I'm not that why was confused by the rules..

[Yosarian2]

@Yos: Have you played a vengeful before. And if so, link?

Hmm? I have, yes. I believe I've played one or two on the forums here, although you've probably got as much chance at finding them as I do. I've also played a large number of them in face to face games.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not that why was confused by the rules..

Confused by the rules how, Kov? It did seem like a weird question to ask. Why did you want to know if the scum could daytalk?

[Kov]

Well if they can they could be planning constantly and not just at night so two votes on the same person seems more suspicious than it would in a normal game... It would to me at least.

[Yosarian2]

Well if they can they could be planning constantly and not just at night so two votes on the same person seems more suspicious than it would in a normal game... It would to me at least.

Huh? How so?

Two votes on the same person is probably more dangerous then in a normal game, but it wouldn't really make sense for both scum to pile onto the same person for no reason and then hope a townie joins them.

[Kov]

Look, all i'm saying the mafia can organize alot better which is gonna be a problem as it probably is in all vengefuls

[Ditto]

@Yos: Have you played a vengeful before. And if so, link?

Hmm? I have, yes. I believe I've played one or two on the forums here, although you've probably got as much chance at finding them as I do. I've also played a large number of them in face to face games.

Oh, I did. Don't worry about that. I present you Open 158
And here's the interesting part. In this game, you stated that we should be careful with our random votes. In Open 158, this was also partly discussed. With that said, I want you to respond to this:
*But first: *whips* Foolish fools who were foolish enough to make the quote button not work at the old forum *whips* *whips *whips*

Good morning. Seems like random voting with so few players could be quite risky. So how do we get this party started?

Speed-lynching favours scum, especially in this set-up.

If all town players vow not to quick hammer, it guarentees a lengthier day, and would heavily incriminate anyone who wanted to hammer early. That should only be scum.

Eh...quick hammering isn't really a huge risk in this setup, especally since if a townie gets quick hammered they get a venge kill.

Scum will sometimes quick hammer anyway, though, to eliminate the risk of the gf being lynched day 1.

Anyway, I don't really think we need an especally "lengthy day"; I tend to think vengeful games should move quite quickly. Just figure out the scum, nail em, bam.

Eh...quick hammering isn't really a huge risk in this setup, especally since if a townie gets quick hammered they get a venge kill.

Scum will sometimes quick hammer anyway, though, to eliminate the risk of the gf being lynched day 1.

Anyway, I don't really think we need an especally "lengthy day"; I tend to think vengeful games should move quite quickly. Just figure out the scum, nail em, bam.

We don't want to rely on the venge-kill though. If you offered scum a page 3, 3 player alive scenario with one of them alive, they'd be crazy to not take it. The best chance the town has of winning this set-up is by lynching scum D1.

Obviously lynching a scum is significantly better then venge-killing one, yes.

I'm not sure about a strict "no-voting" rule like you're trying to set up. Obv we have to be careful about putting people at lynch -1, and shouldn't without a good reason; but votes are also where you get most of your information. Also, if town people aren't willing to vote agressivly, we probably won't lynch scum today; town people need to be the ones starting bandwagons and such if we're going to be sucessfull.

Now on to Kov. Here's the deal. You stated that you didn't know about day-talking. So when the rules state that scum can't talk during the day nor during the night, wouldn't you assume that scum can't talk with each other? Yet, you're question is assuming they can talk. That feels off to me. Because the only way to me that you'd assume that is if you've seen any indication of scum-daytalking. And there's an explanation behind that from you-scum perspective.
In other words, my question is: Why did you assume that scum can talk, instead of that scum can't daytalk?

UNVOTE: CSL VOTE: Yosarian2

[SFG]

Hoofbeats herald the arrival of a courier on horseback. He pulls up in the midst of the five of you, looks around for a second, and then hands the letter to a random person, in this case CSL. CSL opens the letter as the courier rides off and reads aloud:

Votecount #2, Day 1

Kov (1) - CSL
CSL (0)
nopointinactingup (0)

L-1!

Yosarian2 (2) - nopointinactingup, Ditto
Ditto (1) - Kov
Not Voting (1) - Yosarian2

Disclaimer: All flavor is purely for the enjoyment of those reading and has nothing to do with roles, alignments, or anything else involving the game!

[Yosarian2]

And here's the interesting part. In this game, you stated that we should be careful with our random votes. In Open 158, this was also partly discussed. With that said, I want you to respond to this:

Uh, respond to what?

In both that game, and in this game, I said that scum will sometimes quickhammer in a vengeful game, because the will. In both games, I said that people should be careful at putting people at lynch -1 without a good reason, like you just quoted.

So, your response to pointing out that it's dangerous to put someone at to votes for no reason is to...put me at two votes for no reason? Seriously?

I'm going to give you one chance to explain yourself before I vote you, Haylen, because that's almost absurdly anti-town.

[Ditto]

I'm going to give you one chance to explain yourself before I vote you, Haylen, because that's almost absurdly anti-town.

You're going to be waiting a long time then.
a) Look at the time stamps, I was at work when that post was made.
b) When have you ever known me to write your name out in full?
c) As much as I love meta, I would never unleash my secret weapon this early in the game.
d) Do me an Zazie really post in a similar style? :/
e) I'm a duck. Quack.

*throws wet Kitchen Sponge of Justice at Yos*

I find Kov's question about the scum day-talk quite suspicious and shiz.

FoS Kov

[Yosarian2]

I'm going to give you one chance to explain yourself before I vote you, Haylen, because that's almost absurdly anti-town.

You're going to be waiting a long time then.
a) Look at the time stamps, I was at work when that post was made.
b) When have you ever known me to write your name out in full?
c) As much as I love meta, I would never unleash my secret weapon this early in the game.
d) Do me an Zazie really post in a similar style? :/
e) I'm a duck. Quack.

So, you/Zazie put me at lynch -1, right after I explained why you shouldn't put someone at lynch -1 without a reason, and now you're not even willing to explain it or comment other then with random silliness?

Fine.

Vote:Ditto

Now we're both at lynch -1. And if I get hammered before you give a good reason for your actions here, I going to strongly consider shooting you at this point, because your vote here really looks like a typical "goon scum trying to get a bad lynch off fast to protect godfather" type of action here.

[nopointinactingup]

Whoa whoa, we have 2 concurring wagons just over some random disagreement. If CSL was scum to make this decision between the hammer, chances are he will get away with it. I do not like this.

Unvote

@Ditto: Your case on Yos is valid, but I see people changing meta all the time over the course of their mafiascum career so I'm not convinced.
@Yos: Stop OGMUS-ing. Assuming you are town, how sure are you that Ditto is scum to be more than willing to lynch him AND vengefully kill him if you were hammered? We're only in page 2 and information is still scarce. CSL hasn't even said a word. I understand you find Ditto's behavior scummy but it looks like you are going all out on him without considering anything else.

[Ditto]

In both that game, and in this game, I said that scum will sometimes quickhammer in a vengeful game, because the will. In both games, I said that people should be careful at putting people at lynch -1 without a good reason, like you just quoted.

Oh, but there is a difference. The difference is in the point of the message.
The reason why you stated that we should be careful with our random votes in this game was to 'warn' us.
But in your previous game, it's not. There, it's Hoopla who posts the 'warning'. You on the other hand state that quicklynching isn't that bad as we'd still have our vengefull kill if a townie gets lynched.
But your responses are very interesting.
-You called our vote almost absurdly anti-town, instead of scummy. Is scummy and anti-town the same to you? Because if it is, I'd like to hear why as I think the difference is very clear.
-True, Ditto didn't explain why there's a difference between this game and Open 158 in the way you behave. However, that was the other player. I was the one who voted you for the reason stated. Haylen was making it clear that she didn't vote you. She couldn't explain it. Did you really not know that I voted you and not Haylen?
-And last, wasn't it you who stated that without aggressive voting, we probably won't lynch scum? Seems you disagree with that in this game, though.

Also, don't AtE me. It's not gonna work.


@Nopoint
It's not meta. Meta is based upon playstyle. Yosarian2 acts differently based upon the subject of quicklynches. In Open 158 he's more 'relaxed' about it than that he's in this game.

[Kov]

Why did you assume that scum can talk, instead of that scum can't daytalk?

I can assume that from the rules that the scum have a quick topic therefore it would be pointless if the scum can't talk... I was told by an IC that you should always read the rules.. I saw a problem I pointed it out.

I assume the Fos was by the person who didn't ask the question as you didn't give me time to answer because it would be scummy if it was the same person FoSing without a response.

Could you also sign off with your name Haylen and Zazie, would be nice.

[Ditto]

Why did you assume that scum can talk, instead of that scum can't daytalk?

I can assume that from the rules that the scum have a quick topic therefore it would be pointless if the scum can't talk... I was told by an IC that you should always read the rules.. I saw a problem I pointed it out.

I assume the Fos was by the person who didn't ask the question as you didn't give me time to answer because it would be scummy if it was the same person FoSing without a response.

Could you also sign off with your name Haylen and Zazie, would be nice.

which rule was it?
It's also nice to see that you do comment on the FoS. It's true that Haylen FoSed you and not me, but on the other hand, I did vote Yosarian2 without waiting on his explanation. Why no comment on that?

Z

[CSL]

If I was scum, I would've hammered Yosarian2. But I'm not.

I'm betting it's Ditto.

[Ditto]

If I was scum, I would've hammered Yosarian2. But I'm not.

I'm betting it's Ditto.

Reason?

[CSL]

Gut.

[Ditto]

Gut.

If that's it, then please respond to my points made against Yosarian2

Z

[CSL]

Yosarian2 has a point. However, if you are town, then Yos2 is scum.

Vote: Ditto

[CSL]

Ditto, are you afraid of posting?

[Ditto]

Because Haylen said so. I'm keeping it with my suspicions, though

Kill: CSL

[CSL]

Scum, show yourselves.