Mini 990: YuGiOh! The Abridged Mafia - (OVER)

[FakeGod]

I like Fishy's entrance, drawing attention to Maxmouse I see as very protown,

since there's the easy targets of myself and FakeGod

, and I know I'm town, and I think he is as well, but he doesn't go after us. Fishy's points about MaxMouse are pretty good,

especially the one about MaxMouse bussing Dramonic.

Bold is mine.

I actually thought this was interesting as well. I thought fishy was going to vote either me or Charter, but he goes after Max.

But this is a development I welcome, since I don't trust Max. (my train of thought can be found around post 280~290 I think)

and I'm going to

unvote: Charter

The way that he continually asks people to restate their case against him and so on, even after people on his wagon went after chasing another target (me in this case), seems to me as that he is a townie who is eager to clear his name, not a scum who wouldn't attract attention to himself.

ATTENTION DUELISTS

MY HAIR WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THE VOTECOUNT!

AlmasterGM (0) -
Brandi (1) - Charter
bv310 (0) -
charter (1) - AlmasterGM
FakeGod (3) - InflatablePie Pomegranate bv310
Fishythefish (0) -
InflatablePie (2) - Jarti Brandi
Jarti (0) -
MaxMouse (1) - Fishythefish
Pomegranate (0) -

10 alive, 6 to lynch

[AlmasterGM]

and I'm going to unvote: Charter The way that he continually asks people to restate their case against him and so on, even after people on his wagon went after chasing another target (me in this case), seems to me as that he is a townie who is eager to clear his name, not a scum who wouldn't attract attention to himself.

I actually think the opposite as true.

People are usually bad at casing and just throw around votes. These are the worst kinds of votes for scum because there is the danger of a wagon forming without them being able to do anything to refute it. So they ask for the case.

[MaxMouse]

First time I am home without work in about two weeks.

Heres the ISO I promised. Bare with me, I've never done one before.

FG:
Day 1 summation:
Didn't really see content until about post 15

@Jarti: Hey, other than Mouse asking you why he should vote Pom, I couldn't find this anti-Pom-lynch movement. Could you clarify?

Post 12 is a vote for a lurker but i don't see it as very full of content.

He continues joking until 19 where he decides to lynch BV for the same reason as his lurk vote in 12.
Back to joking again until... Post 25 where he votes Kit: This post bugs me slightly for this:

bv or kitoari, both are lurkish. Though normally I'm not for Lynch all lurkers, I don't mind doing it on day 1.

I just don't see how that would optimally benefit us on D1. There isn't much to go off of but resorting to wagonhopping lurkers isn't the best way. I also noticed that his only non-lurker willing to lynch is Pom. He even wanted to lynch Timeater who hadn't showed yet. He sets the dram lynch and basically checks out for the day.

Alm's not making this up.

Unvote, Vote: Dramonic

Day 2 summation:
I like his play more on this day than the first. He is active more often but his posts are also more useful than they were previously.

He spends much of the day trying to back up his claim such as Post 74:

Paraphrasing.......

alright, my role PM says I am a VT and also a sibling. and then something about Brooklyn(?) and apparently I have no actual powers since Yugi saves my butt all the time. Also, I know my sister Serenity (chronopie) is town, but I cannot secretly communicate to her in any way.

I also checked with the mod pregame whether I or Serenity would suffer bad consequences (like dying the next night or something) if one of us was killed, but he said no, so we ain't lovers or anything like that.

We don't have any powers or penalties other than that we know each other is town.

Preview: we're not Masons, but just VTs who knows each other.. Chrono would've flipped mason if we were masons

I tend to believe this claim to an extent, I can see this role occurring although his town play gives me a tiny bit of pause.

He ramps up in content when the votes pile up:
on Post 80 he makes a wallpost that does double duty as a "im innocent" and a "he's guilty" post.
While I don't approve of the way this was done, mostly due to some quite appropriate points, I'm not sure I like some of the WIFOM such as "do you think I would do X if I were Y?". However he does bring up a good point in Charter trying to rush up FG's wagon.

HOWEVER... I noticed something in his most recent post:

But this is a development I welcome, since I don't trust Max. (my train of thought can be found around post 280~290 I think)

While I don't mind you mentioning your suspicion of me, I checked your posts and I found no such support to this comment unless you count the singular post mentioning when I voted for Dram. There wasn't much of an expansion on this.

Following that it seems a bit WIFOMy in this:

The way that he continually asks people to restate their case against him and so on, even after people on his wagon went after chasing another target (me in this case), seems to me as that he is a townie who is eager to clear his name, not a scum who wouldn't attract attention to himself.

However this leads me to charter: This latest post of his, ironically noticed during this ISO, has given me pause. At first I was thinking "Well its kind of odd, both of the previous lynch targets seem to be looking at me..." Heres what I found:


Quick Charter ISO:
He has 36 posts, but lets be honest there was a decent amount of content in them.
Intial Posts: RVS, not terribly concerned with this.
Post 7: Vote for Kit, similar to FG's lurker posts but with a bit of difference.

unvote, vote Kit

I feel like his posts are all just active lurking. He's posting for the sake of posting, not much else.

Beloved's post was full of null, thanks to all those disbanding the wagon for her.

Also suspicious of Pom, I think twice now she's questioned 'wagons' but for no reason other than it's a wagon. She's not doing the town questioning of it, but the scum kind.

He goes after an active or somewhat light lurker rather than his suspicion of someone who he says is doing something scummy.

I ask to elaborate, and he does:
This sticks out.

She also just laid down a lurker vote on Bv, but didn't mention our other lurker, Beloved. A lurker vote at this time is a pretty safe thing to do if you're scum. No one is going to question voting for a lurker, because lurking should be punished, but at the same time, she isn't asking Bv any questions or giving him any reason to post. She's just keeping her nose clean. I see this was in response to Alamaster asking her who she's suspicious of, and she comes back with the lurker vote and nothing else.

Here is the part of this post I don't like: The post DIRECTLY prior to this post, he votes for a lurker after saying this is a scummy thing to do (and not voting for the person who is doing it).

Here is something I noticed Fishy did not point out yet says I have done and finds it scummy.
ISO 14: Charter votes for me saying I have active lurked. Expands very very breifly for one post in ISO 16 and then jumps on FG for the reasons stated in my ISO. He says that he isn't opposed to the Dram wagon but doesn't like the people voting for it. This comes across as mildly fence sitting. FG however has no votes on him at this point aside from his.

That brings me to ISO 25. Remember this as this will come up later:

I think it's unlikely that Maxmouse is scum, largely due to his vote for Dramonic in 228. If he was scum, that'd have been the perfect time to vote someone else and push for their lynch instead of Dramonic's.

ISO 34:

I like Fishy's entrance, drawing attention to Maxmouse I see as very protown, since there's the easy targets of myself and FakeGod, and I know I'm town, and I think he is as well, but he doesn't go after us. Fishy's points about MaxMouse are pretty good, especially the one about MaxMouse bussing Dramonic.

I find this post a bit odd for two reasons.
1) Charter mentions you think that FakeGod is town.

Yet in ISO 30, charter's last content post before 34 you said

FakeGod is making this extremely difficult to believe he is town with how he's acting

I feel like charter just went after him and then flipped the second Fishy came in.

2) Remember the post I asked y'all to remember?
He literally goes against it right there. He just complimented Fishy on something he mentioned that earlier he said I was likely town for and calls it a good point. Earlier this was the reason that I was "unlikely to be scum". Sudden change?


Here is what I would like before I put down a vote on one of these two. I would like to see these two directly address the above ISOs as well as anyone who was looking for a reason to see their posts.

I will have a vote by tomorrow.

((Out of game comment: Was this a decent ISO? I'd like feedback.))

Preview Edit:

People are usually bad at casing and just throw around votes. These are the worst kinds of votes for scum because there is the danger of a wagon forming without them being able to do anything to refute it. So they ask for the case.

Agree completely. This is addition to the reason that I think the statement from FG was a bit of WIFOM.

Edited tag fixes.

[InflatablePie]

@charter: Brandi is a bit lurky and asks a lot of questions that she doesn't follow up on. But it goes along with her actions in the last game I played with her (where she was town). So, I'm getting a town read on her at the moment.

Wait a second, you said you don't use meta!

Concerning this game, I usually try not going by meta - I use it as a last resort or to augment an existing argument

Key word is try. ISOing Brandi, I didn't gather much from her posts. So I used meta as a last resort.

Going to sleep now - consider my

48-hour V/LA (@Mod)

in effect.

[charter]

and I'm going to unvote: Charter The way that he continually asks people to restate their case against him and so on, even after people on his wagon went after chasing another target (me in this case), seems to me as that he is a townie who is eager to clear his name, not a scum who wouldn't attract attention to himself.

I actually think the opposite as true.

People are usually bad at casing and just throw around votes. These are the worst kinds of votes for scum because there is the danger of a wagon forming without them being able to do anything to refute it. So they ask for the case.

I think that as town you should want to quash crappy cases as well, rather than drop it and hope nobody remembers about you. I think it goes both ways and is something desirable for any alignment.

MaxMouse's 'content' post there contained very little for being such a massive post, and was mostly IIOA.

Re: flip flopping on my opinion of your vote, Fishy explained his thinking behind what he thought pretty well. I spent about 5 seconds to form my opinion, so looking at it from the other angle, it made a good bit of sense.
Re: "FakeGod is making this extremely difficult to believe he is town with how he's acting", I still thought he was town there, but his recent play right before I said that was pretty horrible.

[FakeGod]

Updating my line of reasoning........

Alm + Pie lead the wagon on Dram, so I'm willing to give them town cred for now, and if we take it that Dram wasn't bussing, then Kit + bv aren't scum either.

Which leaves Brandi, Charter, Jarti, MaxM, and Pom from my point of view.

I'll cut the list down further with more analysis later.

Charter, while claiming that he isn't against the wagon, repeatedly defends Dram toward the end, saying that he thinks the wagon is scum-fueled, and that people he suspect made easy votes on him.

Jarti first attacks Chronopie, then votes Dram due to some voting pattern he found with me. (I'm afraid I wasn't able to follow correctly the last three or so posts he made before day 1 ended)

MaxM basically ignores Dram until his last three posts or so. Then he votes him.

This is the line of reasoning where I first mentioned my three suspicions for the day, Charter, Max, and Jarti.

[FakeGod]

and I'm going to unvote: Charter The way that he continually asks people to restate their case against him and so on, even after people on his wagon went after chasing another target (me in this case), seems to me as that he is a townie who is eager to clear his name, not a scum who wouldn't attract attention to himself.

I actually think the opposite as true.

People are usually bad at casing and just throw around votes. These are the worst kinds of votes for scum because there is the danger of a wagon forming without them being able to do anything to refute it. So they ask for the case.

But randomly thrown around votes tend to miss scum (just because there are less scum than town), and in that case, scum can use it to their advantage.

hmm I feel like everyone's scumhunting intently today, but I'm getting this weird disorganized feeling, as if the scum can't decide which player to attack.

[charter]

Four people posted and no one gave their read on Brandi. Tsk tsk.

[FakeGod]

Four people posted and no one gave their read on Brandi. Tsk tsk.

but Charter, you asked this first....

I kind of mean to sound like a broken record, but I still think it very pertinent that those who were voting me earlier give a reason why they picked me over other non-Dramonic voters.

Did you read my ISOs on Jarti, Pom, and Pie? What's your opinion?

[Fishythefish]

Read on Brandi:

Brandi has done next to nothing in this game - I wouldn't describe her play as fencesitting, just not sitting at all. Aside from that, I don't find much to dislike in her posts. Asking for a votecount when dram was being wagonned could be scum wondering whether to bus, but I don't see why to prefer that explanation to town wanting to know how close a lynch was. Definitely on the scummy side of neutral for active lurking, but I'd prefer an IPie or MM lynch right now.

[Brandi]

Charter I honestly don't think you are even reading any of my posts.
Your confirmation bias is terrible.

Also, you've been attacking FG for a while yet you consider him to be an "EASY TARGET" - are you now saying you find him to be town now? Please elaborate on this.

[Brandi]

For the record- BV310 has posted just as little as I have (he actually has less posts than I do). Consensus is that he is not scum, but just because he is "cleared" by his claim- doesn't mean he shouldn't be participating either. His last post said he'd be V/LA until Monday yet that Monday has passed and its almost the next Monday. Posting little content and active lurking isn't really a sucmtell and someone who has been around as long as Charter should know that.

I'm not sure what else I need to contribute at this point. I have my vote on Pie, I'm happy with that. I actually feel even more confident with my vote on him considering he finds me town based on meta yet finds FG scum based on meta. FG and I were in the same game as town together and no one has a scum meta on FG. I feel if he honestly found me town based on meta he'd have a better explanation than what he gave also.

In Furry- and pretty much every other game I've been in as town... there were a lot of times where I just wouldn't vote anyone at all. I am the type of player who doesn't like to just vote and unvote constantly. I've always been a hesitant player and the only times I'm ever aggressive I'm usually wrong- 99% of the time. My consistency to be wrong in my reads as town usually leads to me being even more of what I am now in my games.

[Brandi]

EBWOP: FG as scum despite*** meta^

[Fishythefish]

I disagree that active lurking isn't a scumtell. Specifically, if a player is trying to look like they are posting content, while not really adding anything to the game or pushing for lynches, they are more likely scum than town.

[InflatablePie]

Posting during my V/LA because I'm awake early. I still work from 12PM Eastern till roughly 10 tonight and I'm running on three hours of sleep. I promise I will try my best to make a content post tomorrow.

@Brandi: FG is acting slightly different in his meta from Furry, imo. I said earlier, he's acting scummier in this game than in Furry by a longshot. You, however, are acting exactly the same as in Furry. You're still not being very protown although I appreciate the recent content in your last two posts, but I don't have the feeling you are scum. Stupid way to "clear" comeone? Probably.

FG/Brandi, do you two have any completed games as scum that I could skim real quick when I get a chance?

[FakeGod]

do you two have any completed games as scum that I could skim real quick when I get a chance?

No. I never was scum in this site.

[charter]

Four people posted and no one gave their read on Brandi. Tsk tsk.

but Charter, you asked this first....

I kind of mean to sound like a broken record, but I still think it very pertinent that those who were voting me earlier give a reason why they picked me over other non-Dramonic voters.

After I asked this, the last people stated their reason.

Did you read my ISOs on Jarti, Pom, and Pie? What's your opinion?

No, I didn't read that gigantic post. Just now I glanced at it, and you just summarize posts, you didn't tell us anything new.

Also, you've been attacking FG for a while yet you consider him to be an "EASY TARGET" - are you now saying you find him to be town now? Please elaborate on this.

I thought he was scum, but his claim changed that, which I've said a few times since Chrono's breadcrumbs seem to support it. If FakeGod is town, I don't think there's any doubt that he's an easy target for scum to go after.

I'm gonna have to go back and look at Pie some more, since post 514 looks like a desperate attempt to cling to a FakeGod lynch.

[FakeGod]

@Charter: Yeah, you asked, so I went back found all the posts for you.

so......did you agree with my conclusion?

Pie stands out as the only one among who have voted Charter who didn't explicitly explain/provide original analysis and/or reasoning behind his vote.

[charter]

I guess, I was asking more to catch people changing their story later on, not try and find any slipups in their story (though if it happened I wouldn't complain).

(Jarti wanted you to ISO people)

[MaxMouse]

@Brandi: Meta does not make a case IMO, its just kind of the topping to solid evidence. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a vote on someone "despite the meta", because I don't believe meta is super-solid evidence.

@FG: I got the response from charter but I'd still like to hear from you regarding my post.

@Fishy: If you could give me the three main points of your case on me in one or two sentences, that would be helpful.

[Brandi]

@MM: Yes I know, I wouldn't have said "despite meta" if it weren't for the fact that Pie is including meta on his read on me as well :S

[Brandi]

@IP: I have never completed a game as scum ><; Well, except for marathon days, but, I dont have links to those or even remember them but Im sure there are some out there.

[AlmasterGM]

@IP: I have never completed a game as scum ><; Well, except for marathon days, but, I dont have links to those or even remember them but Im sure there are some out there.

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds like she is scum this game?

[Brandi]

I could see how such a thing might bring that thought, but honestly I don't think there is a way to properly say "I haven't completed any mafia games as scum" without it sounding bad. :B If I had a game to link you to, I would. Sorry.

[Pomegranate]

I've been very busy in recent days, but I'll post tomorrow.