Open 231: My Name is Earl (Game Over)

[AurorusVox]

no, vox. answer my question role-related info aside.

But the very notion of being "okay" with getting lynched relies on the role. Anyway, since you've retracted the question, I'll not answer it.

[AurorusVox]

Col. Cathart's play doesn't give very much info onto his alignment. Yes, he supported a Beefster wagon, but that could simply be distancing and he may have planned to unvote later, but never got a chance.

I wondered this too but wasn't sure if it sounded too far fetched. I assumed he'd have made the effort to find a reason to unvote before getting replaced, but perhaps he couldn't get into the game enough to re-read for that reason, or maybe by that point it may have looked more suspicious. It's good to know that I'm not the only one to consider that possibility though.

[nocase]

As someone voting me, I don't understand your need to ask any of these questions. Do you want me lynched? Or are you looking for someone to answer these questions because you want someone to confirm your suspicions?

i don't mean to be snarky but excuse me while i don't answer this question. i can get around to it later if you want me to.

[XScorpion]

xscorpion, i appreciate your criticism. why don't you back it up with doing something remotely meaningful at some point in this game?

i don't mean to be snarky but excuse me while i don't answer this question. i can get around to it later if you want me to.

[nocase]

i put on my robe and wizard hat.

[XScorpion]

I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000
Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.

[nocase]

gg play again?

[XScorpion]

Pokemon.

[nocase]

pokemon sucks. i'm going to bed.

[XScorpion]

I probably will soon, too

[d3x]

@nocase- That's why I called it a slip. I don't think he consciously would. I'm not ruling it out of the realm of possibilities that it was a WIFOM gambit, but I do think it was a slip at bare minimum.

I liked C.C's early play. Then he disappeared. Now I'm not too keen on TBm, but he hasn't done anything that I would deem obvScum.

[Budja]

TBM prev. Cathcart is the weakst-ly cleared by Beefster interaction but I do also have a town read.
It would be great if he stopped voting for nocase-town.

[nocase]

i hate to keep bothering you guys but what do you think of the stance on xscorpion's post-claim behavior d3x expresses in posts 399, 404, and 435?

[AurorusVox]

I agree with much of what d3x is saying, but I don't really see it as accidental (i.e. a slip). After XS had declared that he believed the claim, he had to offer a reason for that belief. This could explain why it came post-claim rather than before the claim itself; backtracking to rationalise the (re)action he had made. It would have looked suspicious if after the hammer he had said, "Oh, no, I think he must have been fake after all."

You don't sound too convinced by d3x's reasons. What is your take on XS's behaviour?

[ConfidAnon]

AV - I've read your explanation and I understand it. However, any action in this game can be explained from some town perspective. Your defense would be alright had it not been for this:

Final thoughts: I think its saying something that Beefy voted, suspected, or questioned everyone in the game at least once, accept for AV. That is noteable because beefy was always demanding reasons or responded whenever someone suspected him or voted him, and beefy didn't even respond at all when AV called him his top suspect and voted. I think that points to a solid connection between the 2, and AV is scum #2.

It is this argument in particular that has led me to vote you.

Also, admittedly, with the d3x vote, I skimmed the thread. Including Rhinox's wall.

[AurorusVox]

Final thoughts: I think its saying something that Beefy voted, suspected, or questioned everyone in the game at least once, accept for AV. That is noteable because beefy was always demanding reasons or responded whenever someone suspected him or voted him, and beefy didn't even respond at all when AV called him his top suspect and voted. I think that points to a solid connection between the 2, and AV is scum #2.

It is this argument in particular that has led me to vote you.

Okay, that's all I wanted to know. What do you make of XScorpion's lack of vote/scumhunting of Beefy, and his defences of him as townie (meta) and his faith in the claim?

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count #15

AurorusVox (3) - Rhinox, Budja, ConfidAnon
Budja (0) -
ConfidAnon (0) -
d3x (0) -
nocase (1) - TheButtonmen
Rhinox (0) -
TheButtonmen (1) - XScorpion
XScorpion (3) - AurorusVox, d3x, nocase

Not Voting (0)-

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is August 12, at 11am EDT.

[Rhinox]

I sided with Beefster because he actually had a case, whereas Budja just voted without reasons.

By the specific posts I pointed out (iso 9, 14), budja had already given reasons for voting beefy.

I didn't want to put him at L-1 because I was going to be V/LA. Would you prefer I had put him at hammer distance and then disappeared for a few days?

Why is it any better to put him at L-2 before going on V/LA vs. L-1? he could be hammered either way while you're gone.

Rhinox wrote:
Iso: 33 switched vote to Xscorp. Iso 37: more wishywashy-ness on beefster - "I think his last post was ok/I'm still wondering if there's a XS/Beefy scum team". Questioned me about putting beefy at L-1 (iso46).


I questioned your L-1 because you hadn't supplied any reasons. L-1 votes should have at least some evidence to them.

The reason I gave was that I agreed with the points brought up against him. Funny how you didn't acknowledge this point of fencesitting on beefy while you were so quick to refute it earlier in the post.

In my experience, it's best to let the L-1 claim. And in my experience it's best to at least give the person in question a chance to back their claim up - i.e., point to breadcrumbing and so on. I am still glad that I didn't hammer him straight away, because if he had been cop, that would have been a stupid move to make. I would have hammered, and would have had the chance to prove that, but after Beefster had had a chance to defend himself.

Do you disagree that waiting for a claim, or letting the claim share his reasons, is what should have happened?

I don't disagree with what you said here, but I disagree with how you went about it when beefy was being lynched. You were fencesitting, and I don't think you would have hammered if there was no CC.

=================================================

was called out for forgetting about beefy. From that point on, was pretty much "ok with either beefy or xscorp lynch"

Can you point out where this happened? Because I'm pretty sure you're making things up to make me look bad.

I was referring to what you said in iso-11: "Well therein lies the difference. I Voted Beefy, I'm building a case on you. As big of a difference between these as there is between AntiTown and scummy behaviors. But don't worry, I haven't forgotten him..."

I maybe took too many liberties paraphrasing than I originally thought. XS pointed out that you voted beefy but never made a case, but you were making a case on XS. You responded that you haven't forgotten about beefy. You're right, I can't point out where someone specifically said "you're forgetting about beefy", but my interpretation is that XS pointed out that you didn't give beefy as much attention as you're giving him and your response was that you didn't forget about beefy and then you proceed to ask him a question and be ok with his lynch the rest of the day but never enough to prefer him over XS.

===================================================

Rhinox, Budja, ConfidAnon -

None of you have made any responses to my defence against Rhinox's points. Anyone fancy saying something about that or do you just want to lynch me without even reading my posts?

Well its unlikely my opinion is going to change regardless of what you say at this point. I am unwilling to support any lynch other than AV, d3x, or scorp today, and I rank the lynches in the order budja gave earlier: AV > d3x >>> scorp

====================================================

@AV and d3x both: Anyone you think is town?

[AurorusVox]

I sided with Beefster because he actually had a case, whereas Budja just voted without reasons.

By the specific posts I pointed out (iso 9, 14), budja had already given reasons for voting beefy.

I see, I thought you were referring to an earlier point. In those posts, I considered both Beefster's and Budja's points (I believe this is quite clear in ISO 9) but found Beefster's to have more substance to it, and thus I was more convinced by his arguments. I didn't mindlessly side with someone, I thought about what both of them were saying.

I didn't want to put him at L-1 because I was going to be V/LA. Would you prefer I had put him at hammer distance and then disappeared for a few days?

Why is it any better to put him at L-2 before going on V/LA vs. L-1? he could be hammered either way while you're gone.

Because L-1 is much closer to hammer than L-2. Putting someone at L-1 is kind of a big deal, at least I think it is, and I wasn't prepared to do that if I wasn't going to be here to (a) Judge his reactions, (b) debate his claim, (c) follow up with questions, or (d) unvote if his defence/claim was sound. Yes, he could still be hammered at L-2, but it requires that extra person. I'm not saying that L-2 is "safe", but it's "safer" than L-1. Because it requires less people to get the hammer, I'd be unhappy if I returned and that one extra person had voted him and he'd been a mislynch.

I questioned your L-1 because you hadn't supplied any reasons. L-1 votes should have at least some evidence to them.

The reason I gave was that I agreed with the points brought up against him. Funny how you didn't acknowledge this point of fencesitting on beefy while you were so quick to refute it earlier in the post.

I don't quite get what you're saying with this last sentence, can you explain it to me a bit more? Or, maybe you tell me what/where I've refuted fencesitting? If you're saying I've been inconsistent in calling you out on fencesitting, in my ISO 46 I did call you out on it, so I did acknowledge it and have thus been consistent in it. I'm a bit confused, so I'll try to answer if you can explain it further.

In my experience, it's best to let the L-1 claim. And in my experience it's best to at least give the person in question a chance to back their claim up - i.e., point to breadcrumbing and so on. I am still glad that I didn't hammer him straight away, because if he had been cop, that would have been a stupid move to make. I would have hammered, and would have had the chance to prove that, but after Beefster had had a chance to defend himself.

Do you disagree that waiting for a claim, or letting the claim share his reasons, is what should have happened?

I don't disagree with what you said here, but I disagree with how you went about it when beefy was being lynched. You were fencesitting, and I don't think you would have hammered if there was no CC.

I can't prove that I would have hammered, and it's pointless for me to tell you that I'm telling the truth in saying that I would. As for the accusation of fencesitting, I wasn't; I was saying, quite clearly, that I didn't believe his claim. But I thought it was normal for people discuss claims and such, rather than hammering straight away, which is why I waited. I mean, hypothetically, if he'd been the real cop, then would ConfidAnon have been your top suspect at this point?

Well its unlikely my opinion is going to change regardless of what you say at this point.

What about, regarding what other people say? What I mean is, are you set in your lynch, and will now sit back and wait for the deadline, posting just enough to not get replaced - or will you go out and scumhunt other people too (I guess it'd be between d3x and XS)? What if one of the other players slips up somehow, or a convincing case is brought against them? Will you outright ignore any of those things, if they happen?

Anyone you think is town?

Yep, there is someone I think is town.

[TheButtonmen]

@Mod:

I hate to do this, espically after the cross replace but I'm going to need a replacement. I don't have the time to dedicate to MS that I used and won't have that level of free time agian for a few weeks and have already made the commitment to mod / invitational, which is taking up what time I do have.

[crypto]

RAGE

[nocase]

RAGE

oh good i outed myself with a post that didn't even have anything in it.

[nocase]

okay vox is town; lynch xscorp or d3x please.

[Scott Brosius]

don_johnson replaces TheButtonmen effective immediately

[ConfidAnon]

Okay, that's all I wanted to know. What do you make of XScorpion's lack of vote/scumhunting of Beefy, and his defences of him as townie (meta) and his faith in the claim?

Suspicious of it as well. My vote for you might as well be him, I approve of both lynches, but you are slightly scummier to me (purely gut).