/in-vitational 7 - Save Cow's Mind! (after 1014)

[Ythill]

/confirm

[Ythill]

I suppose I should say hello. I'm happy to see some faces from my request list, including some people I've been wanting to /in with for awhile. Y'all are welcome to engage in RVS or random questions, though I never do the former and seldom do the latter, especially after in-thread confirmations. The game is already afoot.

@UK:

I don't mind the caps, just please don't get treestumped and start spamming us with screen stretchers.

[Ythill]

All the cutesy hugging stuff is okay, but if anyone posts Hello Kitty I will dayvig him/her. Just sayin.

1. There's a search function at the top of the page. Use it. I haven't been scum in a long time though, so you might need to go into the archives.
2. I look for the truth.
4. Objective scumtells do not exist. Off topic discussion is anti-town and should be avoided.
8. I share my town reads, though I'm less likley to give the reasoning behind them than I am with my scum reads.
16. I will usually post at least once per day but the times I'm on vary wildly. I'm often online late at night (west coast of US).

DRK is scum, possibly with Neto. We should wagon the latter, do some other stuff, and then lynch DRK. Faraday is town.

VOTE: Netopalis

[Ythill]

dayvig: xRECKONERx

I hate you. Srsly.

I see no problem with considering Dram's late confirm scummy, but I think that more important things happened in the pre-game. For example, spammy DRK discrediting Neto about RQS and then answering KM thoroughly without complaint looks bad. Plus obv softclaims are obv. Neto feeling the need to paint himself townie in his second post suggests that DRK's stance might have been distancing. All very speculative, of course, but better than random.

KM & Reck are prob-town. This game is easy.

@TL:

Nice chainsaw. Me calling Faraday town this early isn't buddying?

@Reck:

Night start > in-thread confirm phase > RQS > RVS. Why are you ignoring our best source of info?

@Far:

Did you follow the link KM posted? It clearly explains what she found scummy about Dram's confirm.

[Ythill]

I didn't say you were buddying Faraday...

I know, in fact you clarified that I wasn't and I'm wondering why.

[Ythill]

@TL:

You're still dodging the original question. Why wasn't it buddying when I called Far town so early? Obv, you don't agree with the read or you wouldn't be voting him.

[Ythill]

@SFG:

Do you realize this is (at least) your third time posting a reason you are not playing? Meanwhile, you're playing. What gives?

@TL:

You don't have a town read on Far. Your theory means that you don't have scum reads on DRK/Neto. There was not enough info for you to have a town read on me. So why do you feel that my town read on Far was not me buddying to him? This is the last time I'm going to ask you.

[Ythill]

A bit of a manufactured tell against Dramonic there.

Disagree 100%. Late confirmation is a valid point. KM even backed it up with meta.

Ythill: Who do you suspect right now and why?

You've read my posts but don't know the answer to this question? Hmmmm...

Do you find that you buddied to Faraday?

Nope, but I find it odd that you didn't think I had. What was your town read on me based on?

[Ythill]

Oh you mean like a single person... then that would be DRK. I already said why.

Why do you feel that scum tend to confirm later?

IME, at least one scum likes to confirm late so as to buy them enough time to chat before D1 starts.

[Ythill]

KM is correct, and I think it's obvious if you look at the context. Night start > in-thread confirm in general.

Neto was pretty quick to jump to conclusions there. I hope he won't be that rash as a lawyer.

[Ythill]

re flavor claims:

I'll claim flavor names if it it gets majority support. I'd like to add some advice though: in answering SFG's question, please don't explain why or why not you support the idea, which can provide hooks for role speculation.

@Neto:

Why just a Fos? You said you understood the reason for KM's attack, and we really can't fault her for not checking as thoroughly as you. So your meter should have been going down on her when it jumped up on me. Why not vote me? Brief theory question... what purpose do you feel a FoS serves?

[Ythill]

Ythill: By town read, I mean town read on you NOW.

Which has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

[Ythill]

UNVOTE: Netopalis
VOTE: DeathRowKitty

C'mon Faraday. If you're going to be my shadow we might as well make it count.

[Ythill]

...Really, Faraday? He blatantly accuses you of just following him, and you

still

do it?

It wasn't an accusation, it was an invitation. Is DRK not scummy anymore? Please explain exactly what is suspicious about Faraday following me onto DRK.

[Ythill]

@DRK:

In this game

you discredited Neto by saying that arguing against RQS would be more informative than the questions themselves, then you answered some without argument. Were you lying about what you thought would be more helpful to the town, or intentionally playing sub-optimally?

@TL:

Your vote change doesn't make sense to me. Please explain it.

[Ythill]

@DRK:

Why are you stil voting KM?

@UK & Dram:

Post moar plz.

@Haylen:

I looked up active lurking in the dictionary and there was a picture of you.

DRK & Neto are still on my radar. TL is being added to the watch-list, as is Hayl. Cuttle joins KM and Reck on my prob-town list. SFG is sorta on it too, though I didn't like her backpeddling away from the wincon argument.

UNVOTE: DeathRowKitty
VOTE: Haylen

[Ythill]

Oh. I missed that vote at the end of the line. Sorry.

[Ythill]

Maybe she's never been a VT.

@Far:

But I

liked

having two votes, damnit. Meh. I might be joining back up with you eventually. I agree that TL needs some pressure today, but I think Hayl needs it more.

@SFG:

The reason I said you were backpeddaling is because, when you first made the statement, you said you weren't sure if it was relevant but it wasn't a question. Later, you said you'd only

asked

if it was relevant, which is not true. The assuptions and excuses in #186 earn you a few more scumpoints, methinks.

Mod:

Sorry, I was tired or I would have thought to give you a bolded mention about the VC.

Neto's looking worse with almost every post. Haylen needs more votes on her.

[Ythill]

Ythill, you don't even find it the slightest bit suspicious that Faraday's been doing nothing but follow?

Nope. Vote movement and grouping are good things.

I wonder how many of us will dayvig Reck today...

[Ythill]

@SFG:

That was a joke, obv.

[Ythill]

Why wagon a lurker when there's already an active lurker with a vote on her? More Haylen votes please.

[Ythill]

Well then we should always bandwagon her.

[Ythill]

ITT, everyone defends inactivity and active lurking. WTF?

[Ythill]

Do I not count?

Aparently not very accurately.

@Reck:

Less talk, more vote.

[Ythill]

Ohey look, Haylen can scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Haylen
VOTE: TheLonging

Hi Faraday. It didn't feel right bandwagoning without you.

My town read on Cuttle has improved.

[Ythill]

Both me and Haylz think Cuttle's behavior is scummy and this improves your town read on him?

Nope. His OMGUS does.

[Ythill]

Hoping that you will refrain from voting him?

[Ythill]

I don't know how you know he knows that. What I do know is that you should vote for TL.

[Ythill]

WTF, SFG? AtE @ L-thewholeshebang? Having a bad day?

This game seriously needs more activity.

[Ythill]

The last couple of pages have been thoroughly confusing. Pressure shifted subtly to TL. Reck suggested secret alliances, SFG started self-loathing, DRK softclaimed something on TL's behalf and was apparently correct though he didn't say what it was. Lurky Dram popped in long enough to make jokes (I LOLed BTW), but acted like we're not even playing a game. WTF?

I'd like a couple more votes on TL please. Let's see if the antics get even more zany.

[Ythill]

TL has more votes.

It's strange to me that they're calling each other suspicious but they've both changed their votes to lurker-Dram during the past few pages. I'm tempted to vote Dram too, just to see where that leads, but I want more votes on TL right now, so that would be kinda dumb.

[Ythill]

Hey, look. Dram can scumhunt too. Cuttle gets a few scumpoints for mudslinging. Hayl earns townie brownies.

Name claiming hasn't been abandonned. Five are in support, with KM on the fence. Only two are clearly opposed. Four (DRK, Hayl, UK, Reck) haven't taken a stance unless I missed it. However, if this is not decided ASAP I will be withdrawing my support because I don't want it stalling us into a deadline lynch.

[Ythill]

Okay now the vicarious softclaim makes sense.

We officially have majority support for a nameclaim. I'll go first. Let's do this quickly.

Nameclaim: SyFy Channel

One of TL/DRK should go next, due to their obv roles. I don't care which.

[Ythill]

I

may

have a breaking theory. I'll share it after we have all the nameclaims.

[Ythill]

Stop feeding your buddies fake-claims.

[Ythill]

We still need claims from Hayl, KM, and Neto.

@Cuttle:

Please repost your claim using the proper account, for iso purposes.

[Ythill]

@Far:

Awesome, maybe we're seeing the same pattern. Two more claims and we can talk about it.

Mod:

Please prod Neto. KM will qualify for a prod in about two hours, please prod her at that time.

Prod/replacement rules are kinda loose in this game. We may have to take matters into our own hands to keep the game from stalling out here.

UNVOTE: TheLonging
VOTE: Netopalis

[Ythill]

@Mod:

Just trying to be helpful.

KM's V/LA timing is not ideal. Grumble.

[Ythill]

@Neto:

You expressed general suspicion of eight players who, in some capacity, spoke out in favor of claiming. This is suspicious in and of itself because even if all three scum were in that pool, they are still outnumbered by town who are exhibiting the same behavior, meaning that your point is clearly null. What makes it worse here is that you follow it immediately with a vote on the one player other than yourself who was explicitly against the nameclaim. Will you comment on this please?

I don't mind sharing my theory before KM returns. She was looking town to me and, if she's scum, we'll just have to keep in mind that she's likely to fakeclaim her name if my theory is valid. I think hasdg has his tongue-in-cheek on the topic of mod-analysis in this game, and that, with sufficient knowledge of his habits, we may be able to use the flavor to break the game. This occured to me when SFG claimed Soccer, which is more likley to dominate the mod's thoughts during soccer season. I'm not a soccer fan but the lack of activity in soccer-related threads on this site leads me to believe that the season is over, meaning that it probably isn't taking over the mod's mind at this time. I think that if we search hasdg's posts in GD and GTKAS, we will get some clues as to what's been taking up most of his time recently, and possibly garner alignments from that.

For example, which video games has the mod liked for awhile, and which new ones is he addicted to right now? I believe that one of the neighbors is scum and that answering the question about hasdg will tell us which one it is.

Obviously I think we should keep scumhunting but I am also going to try and find the time to study our mod a bit. The validity (or not) of this theory will become clearer as we see more cardflips.

@Far:

What theme did you see?

[Ythill]

Why does it add to that suspicion? Assuming three scum, at least five townies held that view. Doesn't that make it null?

[Ythill]

Townies can do scummy things and they still be scummy.

Nope. Do I need to quote your opinion on this from the RQS? The fact that ~5 townies supported this demonstrates that there were honest motivations for doing so. Therefore, claiming genrally that doing so is a scumtell rather than a nulltell is wrong, and disagrees with your own stetment about how to find scum. Oops.

It's suspicious because there was really nothing to gain from it.

Huh? We've locked scum into their flavor for later claims, and we have uncovered a possible breaking strategy to be used later.

...wait, are we flavor hunting?

Not yet. However, I think it behooves town to spend some time skimming the mod's GD/GTKAS posts because the cardflips may indicate a flavor break to those who are familliar with his habits, and we might be able to exploit it closer to endgame. For now, we should just keep scumhunting as normal.

[Ythill]

It doesn't make lying impossible, but it makes it more difficult, which is good for the town.

[Ythill]

I'll totally sell my vote to the highest bidder right now. Who wants it on whom?

I will pay ten happy thoughts for a vote on TL, and I will join you.

UNVOTE: Neto
VOTE: TheLonging

Regarding neighbors, there is little agreement in MD. Mod-seeded neighborhoods are viewed as flawed due to the fact that most contain one of each faction, so randomization is recommended with percentages that make the role moot when determining alignment. If this game is a flavor puzzle, I'd say one of them is scum, but it's

waaaaaay

too early to say whether that's what we're dealing with here.

[Ythill]

I agree with the people who have said scumhunting using role names is useless. Everyone's role name seems to be something the mod has a positive view of. I really doubt he took the three he liked least and made them scum.

I don't want to dwell on this, but I want to be clear about it in case I'm dead before it becomes useful. DRK is missing my point. If all twelve of us are the mod's hobbies or addictions, then the three that take up the most of his time

currently

are the ones that are taking over his mind. An example should demonstrate exactly what I mean. For the sake of argument, let's say that a search of hasdg's GD/GTKAS posts reveals that he's currently spending most of his time following soccer, playing mafiascum, and playing a Bioware game. In that case, if we have seen scumflips from Neto (mafiascum) and SFG (soccer), and DRK is still alive in endgame, I'd like the living townies to look very closely at DRK (Bioware) because the evidence in this example suggests a flavor puzzle that indicates DRK-scum. Understand?

That entire dram wagon just reeeeeks

QFT.

If Dram's scum, either there are townies out there that legitimately think he's town or there are two scum screaming their heads off to stop the wagon. Either way, there would be something odd going on if Dram were scum.

This is equally true if he is town.

I owe this game another reread, been focusing on other games for the past couple of days. I should have time to look more deeply into it tonight.

[Ythill]

@UK:

Caught up yet? Please put your vote in play.

[Ythill]

Ythill, how do you feel about lynching any of the other three on dram's wagon besides TL?

I'll get back to you with a definitive answer after my reread. Off the top of my head, I wouldn't mind lynching Neto or whomever of the neighbors seems scummiest.

[Ythill]

Apparently UK has returned and is town. Sweet.

I had a hectic evening at work and I'm tired as hell, but I'm going to look at some isos. I think we should start moving toward our lynch.

[Ythill]

So...

Both Neto and Hayl look scummy to me. The former has dropped more tells, but has also made almost three times as many posts. However, it is unlikley that they are scum together. Of the two I'd prefer to lynch Neto. TL is scum as well, with the added bonus of confirming DRK-town. KM has dropped to null and beyond after making a strong start, I'm leaning slightly scummy on SFG as well, but not as much. I've got Dram and DRK @ MotR, leaning slightly town on both. Everyone else is town.

As I said, we need to start moving toward a lynch. Dram is not the play today. I highly doubt that all the scum are on his wagon (because that would be dumb) but I promise that at least one is, probably even two. Ergo, he is not scum.

@Dram & SFG:

We're not lynching SFG or Reck today, please stop wasting your votes.

@UK & Reck:

I agree that Neto looks like scum. However, unless you believe that the mod would put in scum-scum neighbors to fuck with us, TL is clearly the better D1 lynch. He's just as suspicious, if not more so, with bonus info.

[Ythill]

Yup, TL needs to die.

The fact that ~5 townies supported this.

How do you know that those 5 people were townies?

Until I see evidence showing otherwise, I'm assuming one three man scumgroup and no third-parties. Eight supporters, minus a maximum of three scum supporters, equals five town supporters.

SFG is an athletic supporter.

[Ythill]

In case someone else doesn't understand, I'll clarify.

Both Neto and TL have a good chance of being scum. A TL scumflip would confirm DRK-town. A Neto scumflip would not. Therefore TL is a better D1 lynch than Neto.

[Ythill]

What Far said. Giving them the role name "Neighbor" is the mod saying that they do not know each others' alignments. If they do, then the mod has lied to us. The only way I see them being scum-scum is if we have two scumgroups but I'm not going to consider that a possibility unless we see some evidence of it.

[Ythill]

Does that mean you'll vote TL now?

[Ythill]

@SFG:

There's a problem with your theory. If I live through the night I will be posting as soon as I see the thread open, unless you explain why you need the first post reserved and I agree with you. Also, I'm not scum.

@TL:

Nobody is misrepping you. You made a fluffy attack during the early game and couldn't comprehensibly answer questions about it. Since then, your two major contributions have been lurker pressure and suspicion against DRK because he has the same role you do. You voted Dram for not contributing but he has given nearly as much content in 12 posts as you have in 54. Meanwhile, you've abandonned a case for no reason other than that it was unpopular, cited a wincon and softclaimed under very little pressure, lied about being unable to NT, self-voted, and now you're acting exactly like scum who has given up and wants to die before he outs his buddies.

[Ythill]

(got some ninjas, will submit, then read)

A fluffy attack? I was going by a scumtell which worked for me most of the time, how is that fluffy?

It was fluffy because you felt the need to add that point about the contradiction. It was fluffy because Faraday was no more buddying to me than I was to him, which was not at all. We had (and still have) similar suspicions and town reads on each other. I tried to ascertain why you'd picked his name out of a hat rather than mine, but you couldn't explain that. Instead, you gave up and moved your vote for no good reason.

Your DRK case is crap, calling it valid doesn't change that. The validity of your softclaim isn't at issue here, but the way you made it under little pressure, with nor regard for how that information helps scum is telling. And now you're trying to explain why a self-vote is good? Even if you flip town, nobody is going to care what your suspicions were.

TheLonging's actually coming off as fairly pro-town in his recent posts.

Please send me some of what you are smoking. It's D1 so of course there is the chance that TL is town, but he is

not pro-town

, not fairly, not even

barely

. I'm not usually a fan of policy lynches but this guy needs to die no matter what his alignment is. I'd be okay lynching someone else today (Neto or Hayl, preferably) but TL

needs

to be lynched or vigged before LYLO.

I can't explain why I need the first post reserved for myself without giving crucial information that I would PREFER to stick in the first post of Tomorrow after I've had a night. This will, I believe, bring the largest benefit to the town with the least risk.

My problem with this is that I've got you on my neutral-leaning-scum list. The reason you need that first post has something to do with your role, obv, but that would be true whether you're town or scum and I do not want to allow a potential scum-SFG to get whatever it is you get for making the first post. The fact that you're playing open-handed on this doesn't say anything good about your alignment.

[Ythill]

The problem is that Ythill is very likely town and is a better scumhunter than me, so I feel like I should stay with TL even though I'm neutral on him.

FFS, add KM to my preferred lynches list.

[Ythill]

Ohai Dram. It's mainly that TL is the scummier of the two, but DRK got a few townie-brownies here and there. I don't see why people are treating this as a dilemma. It's possible they're both town. I'd switch from TL to another lynch, but not to DRK at this point.

We need to start working on consensus. Everyone please clearly list your top 3-4 lynch choices if you have not. Mine are

TL, Neto, Haylen, and KM.

If I have time tonight, I'll start making a compromise list based on everyone's suspects.

[Ythill]

@KM:

Problem is, I'm obv-town even when I'm scum. And yet you're willing to lynch a null read based on my word?

Haylen is active-lurking, which I think fits the bill of a vig/SK planning to claim vig(tm) than a lynch.

One of my problems with her play is that she stopped active lurking briefly when there was pressure on her but then went right back to it once the pressure faded.

@Reck:

Most people have already stated it at some point, but I'm giving peeps the chance to adjust for current reads.

[Ythill]

I

am

a certain towntell.

SFG:

My iso #13 was serious, I don't know what was hard to understand about it.

[Ythill]

Here's the consensus list. If your name is listed in purple, you didn't give an explicit list so I read through your posts and tried to ascertain your preferred lynch candidates. Top suspects are listed first. Please let me know if I got anything wrong.

• Cuttle: Hayl, Reck, Far
  
  
• DRK: dram, Neto, Cuttle, TL
  
  
• dram: DRK, KM, Neto
  
• Far: TL, DRK, Neto, Hayl
  
  
• Hayl: Cuttle, dram
  
  
• KM: Neto, TL, Cuttle, dram
  
• Neto: dram, SFG, Far, DRK
  
  
• SFG: TL, Cuttle, dram
  
• TL: DRK, Hayl, dram, Far
  
• UK: Neto, Hayl, DRK
  
• Reck: DRK, Neto, TL
  
• Yth: TL, Neto, Hayl, KM

A player receives two points for being mentioned as a top suspect; one point for being listed anywhere else. Our three most popular lynch candidates are TL, Neto, and DRK (9 points each). If you are not already voting for one of them, please do so (SFG, DRK, Neto, Hayl, this means you). But let's not drop any hammers yet.

UNVOTE: TL
VOTE: Netopalis (to make room)

@TL:

Please stop self-voting.

@Cuttle:

Please move your vote to your preferred lynch.

[Ythill]

Mod:

Can we get a VC?

[Ythill]

what is the case on Neto?

Read his iso. He felt the need to claim town in the pregame, heavily qualified his early reads, pushed KM too hard, defended Dram for no reason and then later voted him for bad reasons, and backed off of a softclaim. He's cast his suspicions way too wide and there was some cognitive dissonance between his stated play preferences (in RQS) and his reaction to the nameclaims.

[Ythill]

I'm far more inclined to believe that you want to do some fast talking with your scum allies more than you want to talk to your neighbor.

QFT.

[Ythill]

I think it is. The one time I've been a neighbor I was scum targeted by a neighborizer. I NKed him because the one-on-one made me too nervous.

[Ythill]

• Cuttle: Far, Hayl, Reck
  
• DRK: dram, Neto, Cuttle, TL
  
  
• dram: DRK, KM, Neto
  
• Far: TL, DRK, Neto, Hayl
  
  
• Hayl: Cuttle, dram
  
  
• KM: Neto, TL, Cuttle, dram
  
• Neto: dram, SFG, Far, DRK
  
  
• SFG: TL, Cuttle, dram
  
• TL: DRK, Hayl, dram, Far
  
• UK: Neto, Hayl, DRK
  
• Reck: DRK, Neto, TL
  
• Yth: TL, Neto, Hayl, KM

Cuttle's suspicions have been updated but it doesn't effect the top three. Haylen isn't even in the top four, she's not today's lynch.

[Ythill]

I only unvoted to make room. I'll gladly hammer TL.

The other two unvotes were at my request but they were two people who had no business being on the wagon: Cuttle's randomish pressure vote and TL's self-vote. The wagon you see now is the people who want to lynch him, minus me. I'm okay with a Neto lynch too.

@Cuttle:

The time for dreaming has passed. The time to lynch has arrived. Everyone on one of the top three please.

[Ythill]

If your stance is that it would be a mislynch, why would you self vote? That's one more slot we can't use to find scum tomorrow, right?

[Ythill]

I hope for later days we don't stick with this suspicion collaboration thing.

Get a wagon or three to L-2 by week 2 without self-votes and pointless pressure votes and I'll gladly stop holding everyone's hand. I actually agree with you but I think that the value of having non-collaborative wagoning is much lesser than the value of reaching a decision substantially earlier than the deadline.

Hell, even

with

the explicit consensus-building, this playerlist seems allergic to lynches. We have eight days left. Using them will create excuses for scum to wagon-hop at the last minute. Can we

please

lynch someone now? Kthx.

[Ythill]

UNVOTE: Neto
VOTE: TheLonging

TL is scum and Reck is a likely buddy. TL was playing crazy but was obviously not a jester. Reck then suggested that TL was third party, and he started pretending to be a jester.

@SFG:

Why have you added me to your suspicion list. Why have you removed dram?

[Ythill]

@SFG:

Way to be specific.

Vote movement and grouping in general is good for the town. And I look "nice and townie" regardless of my alignment. So you both put me on your suspect list and took dram off of it because I've dropped a towntell and a nulltell. Yeah, it makes sense... if you're scum or failing at finding them. At least I don't have to ask you what you're on.

I've got this great idea where we lynch TL. Or maybe a quick snap over to Reck because to hell with consensus. Can we do something like that anytime soon? Am I going to have to start offering imaginary trades for votes again.

[Ythill]

It seems that we will be hanging one of the neighbors today.

@SFG:

If I should take your hinting to mean that you think I'm town but are trying to lower the lilihood of my NK, it brings up some more questions like how are you

that

convinced? And why aren't you doing the same thing for UK? If I am selected for NK, so be it. Just please remember to examine Reck very carefully if TL flips scum.

@Neto:

So your problem with me is a vague, undocumented assertion and paranoia about my playstyle. SFG just apologized for a similar statement, explaining that she was up late and loopy on vicodin. What's your excuse? BTW, I wasn't used to "oblique" in this context so I looked it up and I will definitely be remembering that word for when I make my own vague attacks. Possible applicable meanings are: slanted, indirect, evasive, dishonest, devious, misleading, and collateral. In which sense were you using it?

[Ythill]

Is it because I put you on my scum list

Didn't I just question you for bumping him

off

your scumlist?

@Neto:

1) The "breaking strategy" wasn't an attack, it was a suggestion of how the town might exploit the theme in the future. Your theory about two scum neighbors is ridiculous unless we have two scumteams. Neighbors do not know each others' alignments, scumbuddies do, therefore neighbors cannot be scumbuddies, barring bastard-modding.

2) If this was true, TL would be dead already.

3) LOL. You've never voted me, so stop making stuff up. I attacked your vote on dram because the reasoning was uber-bad, I pointed out that you were jumping to conclusions in

FOSing

me because you

were

jumping to conclusions. Neither of those statements had anything to do with bandwagoning or vote movement in general. Note that I

did not

(and will not) complain about your isos 14-16, during which you changed your vote three times in three posts.

4) Emphasis on "immediately?" Really? So the player who's almost as spammy as Ythan is supposed to wait how long before responding? I'm fine with people being suspicious of me. I am not fine with people suspecting me for crap reasons. Your attacks against DRK/dram/Far weren't a model for validity either, but they were stellar compared to the mud you slung at me. Besides, if you are town, there is benefit in improving your read on me ASAP.

I am, of course, not willing to act on any of these. I only mention them now because I feel that, if we end up with a lot of mislynches, we may want to look into you more seriously in the future.

I don't see how your non-points serve this purpose. They're more likley to achieve the opposite, actually.

[Ythill]

"Top three" was an arbitrary number that

you

assigned to people you founf suspicious enough to mention explicitly. You bumped him off of that list. I don't see how that's hard to understand.

[Ythill]

We need to start working on consensus. Everyone please clearly list your top 3-4 lynch choices if you have not. Mine are

TL, Neto, Haylen, and KM.

If I have time tonight, I'll start making a compromise list based on everyone's suspects.

So I asked for 3-4, then I listed 4. Bolded and colored so that nobody would miss it. Yet you're now claiming that I specifically asked for 3?

[Ythill]

@Neto:

Reck's behavior on this page is what scum actually look like when they're attempting to avoid the discussion about suspicions on them. Just sayin.

Right now would be a great time for a TL lynch.

[Ythill]

[Ythill]

Wait a minute... you're calling Neto and DRK town? WTF? Plus you suddenly suspect Reck? Do you mean it this time, or is this another drug induced non-read?

UNVOTE: TL
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Ythill]

@dram:

They're

mostly

unrelated but I'm voting who I meant to vote. Still willing to switch back to one of the consensus lynches lynches if needed.

[Ythill]

UK:

Stop whining and

make

something interesting happen. A quick bandwagon on Reck, for example.

This game stalling around the consensus increases my belief that there is at least one scum in the top three. Probably it is not DRK.

[Ythill]

Why?

[Ythill]

Sigh. I think this thread needs more Ythill-lurk. But... nah.

@dram:

I don't mind you being wrong.

@UK:

If you're going to

be

boring, don't complain about the rest of us.

[Ythill]

Well, now that a bet has been placed I think it's our duty to lynch TL so we can see who wins.

[Ythill]

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed. I had high hopes for the /invitationals but now I'm kinda hoping I get NKed.

[Ythill]

Sigh. TL is scum.

[Ythill]

UNVOTE: Reck
VOTE: The Longing

Now he's @ L-1 and I'm perfectly comfortable with a hammer.

@Far:

Why did you feel the need to gambit vote?

[Ythill]

Note the lack of a self-hammer. So all that "plz ML me!!!!" was an act to avoid the noose.

Somebody hammer this scumbag please.

[Ythill]

vote: Cuttlefish

UK (I assume) motivated me last night and I got two actions. Haylen is now confirmed town. Cuttlefish was immune to my investigation for some reason. If anyone can explain that I'll unvote, otherwise he needs to die.

And yes, that is one hell of a softclaim, isn't it?

[Ythill]

My name is SyFy Channel. Why?

@KM:

Are you not reading my posts. Haylen is confirmed town. Here, let me make it obvious...

I got two actions last night. Haylen is confirmed town. Cuttlefish was immune to my investigation.

(heh, you ninja'd me)

[Ythill]

Cuttle, explain RIGHT NOW why you are investigation immune. Or die.

[Ythill]

Whatever. One of my investigations worked just fine.

[Ythill]

Why did you ask my role name?

[Ythill]

No, I don't know you're right. I don't know what this nonesense about the Aristocrats is supposed to be, but I know that one good investigation means I was not RBed, so unless someone explains why I got a "no result" message on you, we're lynching you. Also... posting this in all my games...

V/LA all weekend (Aug 20-22) because I am hosting Scumstorm.

I will be around for a while tonight and

may

check in occasionally during the meet, but don't count on it.

[Ythill]

Some JKs protect from all actions.

[Ythill]

Okay I'm more than a little confused. We have one claimed neighbor plus five softclaims? Target rich environment for sure. Maybe we should massclaim? My mafia training screams no at the thought of a D2 massclaim with no dead scum but it's not like they're going to have trouble finding the power roles.

@KM:

If you were responsible for my miss, then what did you mean when you said DRK was confirmed town? Also, do you know why Cuttle would have gotten an aristocats video?

[Ythill]

I know, me too. But... Okay whatever.

And why the hell were y'all talking about the game at Caffwagon? I feel so violated.

[Ythill]

Hey. I'm back from V/LA. Have skimmed the thread but I'm suffering a little from meet-lag, which doesn't help the confusion I was feeling from all the softclaims.

then what did you mean when you said DRK was confirmed town?

I mean that he's more confirmed town than any night action could say.

What? You know, I've been reading KM as town but this seems like a slip-cover to me. It looks like KM claimed JK after forgetting that she soft-claimed an investigative role.

SFG did something very similar, claiming an opinion reversal on me in her opening post and then claiming miller. Not as blatant as KM though.

One concern I have about a DRK lynch is that the town is apparently power-role heavy and would require some checks and balances. A miller makes sense for balance purposes, as do town-town neighbors. A scum neighbor seems too weak unless he has other powers. I need to put some more thought into this game and reread the softclaims more carefully before I make a decision, but I feel like there's a lot of information to work from. Obv, I need to reread D1 as well.

[Ythill]

Well, I'm not, so I guess she's going to have to explain herself. Why are you making assumptions?

[Ythill]

If it's so obvious, it should be easy to explain.

[Ythill]

Ythill, I'm a bit insulted by your insinuation that as scum I would be that ridiculous.

If I believed that players in here were infallible, what would be the point of scumhunting? You either backed off one fake claim to make another or this is some inside reference from #mafia. Apparently your friends believe it is the latter, but (because we are not infallible) I'd like to make that determination for myself. So would one of you

please

attempt to explain the inside reference that caused you to call someone "confirmed town" without information from the mod confirming that person as town? Thanks.

Why is Ythill still voting me?

Because if KM is lying about her role, you're still scum. And if she isn't, you still

could be

scum. Once this softclaim business is cleared up, I'll probably move my vote.

I still intend to parse D1, but I'm getting caught up in all my games right now and I'm pretty busy, so it might be awhile before I get to that.

[Ythill]

Deal with it. If she is lying then you're both scum and if she doesn't want my spotlight on her, she should stop throwing around the word "confirmed" and then refusing to explain it.

[Ythill]

@Hayl:

I investigated you because you were on my suspect list but not at the top of it.

[Ythill]

Attempting to make sense of this game, but it's slow going right now. I've got all that softclaim business figured out and it's not as bad as I had thought originally. The only

actual

confirmed town is Haylen. I'm going to try to read some more tonight...

[Ythill]

I hear what the flow is saying, Nik, but I'm not that kind of player. And it's not as bad as I thought because we only have four softclaims, not five, and one of them is claiming miller.

[Ythill]

Not much info in these with only town flips, but it's what we have to work with so... assuming Haylen is not a GF...

dramonic(4):

TheLonging

, DeathRowKitty,

Haylen

, Netopalis

TheLonging

(4): Faraday, KittyMo,

Ythill

, Cuttlefish
Netopalis(2): xRECKONERx,

UncertainKitten

xRECKONERx(1): SFG
SFG(1): dramonic

DRK and Neto are probably not scum together, but meh. At least one of Far/KM/Cuttle is scum. Note Reck's Neto-hate.

TheLonging

(5): Faraday, KittyMo,

Ythill

, Cuttlefish,

TheLonging

Netopalis(2): xRECKONERx,

UncertainKitten

dramonic(1): Netopalis
xRECKONERx(1): SFG
SFG(1): dramonic
Cuttlefish(1):

Haylen

Not Voting(2): DeathRowKitty

The dram wagon collapsed and the votes spread out. I wouldn't expect scum to pile on TL after the self-vote, so maybe they were waiting for another wagon to form. Why no votes added to Neto?

TheLonging

(3): Faraday, KittyMo, SFG
Netopalis(3):

UncertainKitten

,

Ythill

,

TheLonging

DeathRowKitty(2): xRECKONERx, dramonic
dramonic(1): Netopalis
Cuttlefish(1):

Haylen

Haylen

(1): Cuttlefish

Not Voting(1): DeathRowKitty

This is a pretty little VC. Neto hangs at three townie votes for awhile. Why doesn't Reck join the party? Why doesn't Cuttle like the top three suspects?

TheLonging

(4): Faraday, KittyMo, SFG,

Ythill

Netopalis(3):

UncertainKitten

,

TheLonging

, Cuttlefish
DeathRowKitty(2): xRECKONERx, dramonic
dramonic(1): Netopalis
Cuttlefish(1):

Haylen

Not Voting(1): DeathRowKitty

I jump off Neto, Cuttle jumps on. Reck's sitting there watching people cycle around his #2 and crying out against the TL lynch, why is he still parked on DRK? My guess is that one of Reck/dram must be scum at this point.

TheLonging

(7): Faraday, KittyMo, SFG,

UncertainKitten

, DeathRowKitty,

Ythill

, Cuttlefish
DeathRowKitty(4): xRECKONERx, dramonic, Netopalis,

Haylen

Netopalis(1):

TheLonging

DRK is a very safe place for Neto to park. With TL alone on Neto, scum must have bunched up on one of the other wagons. Note that DRK is the only new face on TL and I don't see scum switching over so late.

Based on this, Neto is the most likley scum. His buddies are one of Reck/dram

or

one of Reck/Cuttle plus a sleeper... maybe Faraday? I seriously doubt a Reck/dram scumteam, and mildly doubt a Reck/Cuttle scumteam. KM cannot be scum unless Cuttle is mafia with her. Obviously I have more reading to do before I make any final decisions but I might as well...

UNVOTE: Cuttle
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Ythill]

So let me get this straight
Neto is the most likely scum
You are trying to figure out his scumbuddies

yet you're voting me

Your deductive reasoning skills are astounding.

Oh, Ythill. Would you rather be alive, or be at risk of dying but be able to use your night action?

Don't bother protecting me because you're probably going to be the NK. IME, JK should be used as a RB anyway. Aim for scum. However, if this is you reading me as town, I'd love to bloc votes with you. Reck now, possibly someone else later.

Ythill, are you doing this just to spite me now?

No sir. I may still be up for a Neto lynch later but I have more reading to do and this game seriously needs a Reck wagon. What's your opinion of his alignment?

[Ythill]

I'm exactly this good. Which you know, because you are scum.

[Ythill]

Believe whatever you want. It's not a gambit.

[Ythill]

I've done a little rereading but not much. Carry on.

[Ythill]

cow also likes soccer, i mean i could see soccer being a miller in america mafia but the flavour's a bit odd for here.

It could make sense if my understanding of the flavor puzzle is backwards. My initial thought was that the scum would be Hasdg's three favorite things but if they were his three least favorite (attempting a hostile takeover before they die) then the fact that we (primarily Americans) believe that nobody cares about soccer means that we'd mistake soccer for scum. Not that we should try to solve the flavor puzzle at this juncture but just keep this in mind for endgame.

Oh, to answer dram's question from forever ago..how I remember my 'accusation' of you from earlier (which could be entirely false, since this was like a month ago..) was that when you made that post, it was pinging my gut...

Covered this in my reread. KM called it "jokey dishonesty" or something like that. I was the one who noted that both were late confirms, which is something she never mentioned nor, I believe in hindsight, intended to.

[Ythill]

Why is Reck being wagonned?

Info from my wagon analysis, plus read from yesterday, plus Neto is absent.

I do hope to finish rereading but I've been really busy lately: working full time plus we're moving into our new apartment tomorrow.

[Ythill]

We're not going to lynch someone who's not around to claim. I have nothing against lynching his replacement, but for now can we

please

get some more votes on Reck?

[Ythill]

I'm in the process of moving. Time and internet access will be limited for 3-5 days. I'll try to check in at least once every day or so, but please consider me V/LA until Friday.

[Ythill]

Sorry, I was going to skim and post but spent my time on another game and now the coffee shop is closing. Should have internet access @ home soon.

[Ythill]

Hey there. I've got internet access again. Still working out the bugs with the wireless (goddamn cords everywhere, grumble) but I will be posting regularly again.

I've caught up. DRK's "notes" post looks very contrived to me. And Reck needs to pay more attention to the game. I'm considering a DRK vote.

[Ythill]

Okay. Let's do it...

VOTE: DeathRowKitty[/unvote]

That is a fantastic tag mistake. - Cow

I still haven't finished rereading D1 and I will not have time to do a thorough job until after the weekend.

[Ythill]

Oooops.
VOTE: DeathRowKitty

[Ythill]

But DRK's notes were

really

bad.

[Ythill]

Sigh.

[Ythill]

By bad I mean...

DRK's "notes" post looks very contrived to me.

To rephrase, they do not look like notes written for one's own reference but, rather, a poor job of faking the same. Complete sentences? Self-referencing? Predicting your own lynch? Magically reaching conclusions that are populist at the time of posting? Seriously?

Can't really ignore that. Sorry.

[Ythill]

You know, Reck, one of these days I'm going to be scum when you're town and this whole "what Ythill says" playstyle will come crashing down around you.

[Ythill]

You're allowed to write however you want and, if it sounds like you're full of crap, we're allowed to lynch you for it.

[Ythill]

I write notes like that as if I'm someone else reading them. I make sure everything is nice and readable and explain things I already know, just in case I don't.

So you mention that the player list is for

your reference

? In case you don't know that? I'm not going to let you strawman this down to a style argument. That post was obv-scum due to several factors, which I already mentioned.

Wait. did Ythill just argue that style and tone >>>> content?

Don't know how you got this from my post. DRK was trying to blame it all on his writing style. Go read the "notes" post again and tell me if it sounds legitimate. Ignoring style altogether, the simple fact that he claims to have written it N1 and yet manages to come to

current, middle of D2

populist opinions is enough reason to call shenanigans.

At deadline, I'd gladly block my vote with Ythill and I would like for wife, Faraday, and KittyMo to do the same.

I like blocs, but we'd need one more to control the game and I'm not so sure about Faraday's trustworthiness anymore.

[Ythill]

Why would I care what you have faith in if you're scum?

[Ythill]

Do you normally get what you want by throwing tantrums?

[Ythill]

DO YOU NORMALLY ADDRESS ISSUES BY NOT ADDRESSING THEM?

Yes.

...emotional tantrums are generally from town

Especially in this case, because the

scum or stupid

implication is likley to fill a townie with rage. Which has me wondering if a DRK lynch is the right idea... this game is confusing. Leaving my vote for now.

[Ythill]

If Cuttle is a

day

cop, how did KM block his action last

night

? And how the hell did he get an innocent result on the claimed miller?

[Ythill]

@DTM:

I'm fine with your playstyle but if you could give us a couple concise sentences of tl;dr at the end, it would be helpful.

his trying to discredit the innocent investigation on haylen on the basis that the godfather was investigated in this one game and went to on to win is fucking stupid though

Agreed, though discrediting him for it is exactly what a sleeper scumbag would be up to if DTM was town, and he's right in that she's not 100%. Still, I'm nowhere near okay with her being the lynch today. How do you feel about the bloc?

I've been slacking on this game a bit but I'll try to at least get an updated suspicion list up sometime tonight or tomorrow.

[Ythill]

UNVOTE: DRK
VOTE: xRECKONERx

That's L-1.

[Ythill]

I never claimed my role. Cop was an assumption y'all made that I have simply refrained from contradicting. Please do not base setup speculation on assumptions.

Reck's story isn't exactly sound. I don't like the mention of plural innocents and the explanation for why he made that mistake. Or the fact that he needed to point out repeatedly that he's a

town

cop. However, none of these things is as individually suspicious as Cuttle's false dilemma whereby we must hang a claimed cop or the target of his innocent investigation.

[Ythill]

For a moment, let's assume everyone is telling the truth...

We've got two PR/innocent pairs: Reck and Dram, Haylen and I. KM is a softclaimed JK. SFG is a claimed miller. Assuming sanity and no GF investigations, that leaves us with a lynch pool of four: Cuttle, DRK, Faraday, and DTM. Note that one of the scumteams from my VC analysis (Cuttle, Far, DTM) is all present in the pool. Of them, Cuttle is a softclaimed PR cross-checked through both myself and the JK. I could believe a miller-neighbor-cop-JK-me setup. I do not believe it with the addition of another PR.

I know I'm telling the truth. Of the others, KM is doubly cleared because she can only be scum if Cuttle is, and even then it's not likley. SFG has been a little scummy but her story adds up in a crazy kind of way, and her role is integral to the balance. Thus I believe firmly that one of Reck/Cuttle is scum with a preference for the latter. This deduction also has me leaning even further town on dram. So...

Scum

Cuttle/Reck
DTM
Far

Town

KM
Haylen
SFG
dram
DRK

UNVOTE: Reck
VOTE: Cuttlefish (I will lynch anyone on my scumlist)

[Ythill]

I should note that Faraday and DRK are my most tenative reads. The former hasn't actually been very scummy but he makes sense as the sleeper in multiple teams and he's been lurky-buddying a lot. Town read on DRK is mainly based on KM's statements and the fact that she is my strongest town read. Really, their names are interchangable on the lists and I would be part of a DRK lynch.

Still prefer Cuttle overall though.

[Ythill]

Thanks for finally explaining the DRK-is-town thing.

I've been scum JK in the past.

Who outed himself to protect a townie who showed up as investigation immune? Again, KM is not confirmed town but, unless she is scum with Cuttlefish, I think the chance that she's scum is extremely slim.

[Ythill]

The fact that Reck didn't even question Ythill's softclaim when it happened also leads me to believe that Reck is not a cop.

This is actually a very good point. I looked back and Reck didn't question the soft-claim at all. He only responded to my suggestion of massclaiming and, even then, it was with far less suspicion than he cast toward Faraday for making the same suggestion. He's been playing the not-paying-attention card but my softclaim was bolded in large font (when I repeated it for KM) and Reck noticed what he thought was a subtle softclaim from dram during their discussion about MtG. Reck went on to explicitly say that I am town several times, and buddied to me heavily. Not the response one would expect a cop to have to my softclaim. More recently, when he had the facepalm moment and voted Cuttle for being investigation immune, Reck again did not question the assumption that I am a cop. Very odd.

Also, my role is more likely to exist in concert with a vig than a cop.

UNVOTE: Cuttle
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Ythill]

I don't believe that. Sorry.

[Ythill]

Well, Reck's claim is less believable than Cuttle's, but the latter has been scummier today than the former. Including setting up that horrible Reck-dram false dilemma, arguing that the VC makes him not a viable lynch target (LOL), suggesting that I declare my target in public (so they'll know which "cop" to RB?), rushing the lynch of an absent player, and some etcetera. Cuttle is a reasonable play today all on his own. Plus, if we're wrong and he flips town we get the benefit of confirming the JK to be town.

UNVOTE: Reck
VOTE: Cuttlefish

Goodnight.

[Ythill]

Making a person immune to inspections and blocking them at the same time is a good ability for scum to use on a townie...

But outing oneself as a scum power-role to save that townie from a lynch is

not

a viable scum tactic. If you are town (and I don't see why you'd be lying post-hammer), then the Aristocats video confirms her role and the claim confirms her alignment.

[Ythill]

^ That was scummy.

[Ythill]

Serioulsy though. Scumteam is Reck, DTM, and Faraday/DRK. Unless Nik was just messing with us and he's actually scum.

[Ythill]

Scum

Cuttle/Reck
DTM
Far

Serioulsy though. Scumteam is Reck, DTM, and Faraday/DRK.

Nobody listens to me unless I'm alive and badgering them.

@hasdg:

I think the setup was fine. No problems at all with the inclusion of a miller. I liked the flavor a lot too. Thanks for modding.

[Ythill]

I advise you to work on your ability to read screwball townies such as TL and myself.

Noted. And agreed.

[Ythill]

Never be afraid to sheep dead Ythill.

Reck, you are very fortunate. My two remaining powers were a doc protect and a commute. If I hadn't protecetd KM, the town would have won this game. So, yeah, good NK choice.

[Ythill]

My read on you had less to do with your play than it had to do with your night action claim. Just sayin.

[Ythill]

Nope. Just scum-luv.

[Ythill]

I'm taking this to MD because even if Ythill and UK are jaded to the point that they don't care about misinformation (and also conveniently didn't bother to tell me that miller with scum cop/no cop was even ALLOWED in nonbastard setups)

Excuse me? I'm supposed to know beforehand that you're going to make a bad assumption and then act preemptively to keep you from doing that? Even if I had somehow managed to be that psychic, you wouldn't have listened to me. I mean, I told you pretty clearly who the scum was and you didn't listen to

that

.

Blaming people for the loss is kinda silly. All of us could have played better. If any one thing caused us to lose the game above all others, it was my N2 action choice. And though the scum

didn't

do a good job of looking protown, they did manage to control the lynch pretty well and take advantage of others who were acting just as suspicious. So yeah... maybe our loss was their fault too, ya think?

@Faraday:

Your play has helped me to realize that I am (slowly) becoming immune to buddying. This is a good thing for towns, because buddying has made me fail miserably in the past. I was very pleased to learn that you were actually the third mafioso and therefore to know that, in my brain, evidence had overridden your manipulations. Yay! Hopefully this trend continues.

UK:

You were near the top of my request list and it was nice playing with you, even if it was very brief.

[Ythill]

@SFG:

You misunderstand. The first paragraph of my last post was directed at you but the second one was a comment about Haylen/Nik/etc discussing blame for the loss. Sorry that wasn't entirely clear.

[Ythill]

Well, if the cop claim is as bad as Reck's was then... no. You shouldn't.

[Ythill]

Still a Cop claim and I had no reason to doubt it other than

my gut

Reck's bad reaction to the assumption that Ythill was a cop, which was pointed out clearly by two players who then flipped town.

FTFY.

[Ythill]

...now at least I have proof that someone else agrees with me...

LOL. This would be funny even if somone was in full agreement (because it would only prove that two people are wrong), but it's even funnier considering that statements of mild agreement with tangential points are being twisted. Anyway...

[Ythill]

[Ythill]

I am not trolling you. I have no problem with you.

My problem with

your behavior

is that you are throwing a tantrum and continue to make attempts to justify how your bad play is somebody else's fault. From what you just posted, it seems like I've made that perfectly clear.

Sorry. Much love to you, but I call them as I see them.

[Ythill]

apparently Ythill sucks at reading me

Which is why I came around to a solid town read on you by midway through D2, right? LOL.

NO WAY OF KNOWING that this was NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE

You could have read any number of topics in MD or any number of previous games on this site. You could have run a search for "miller" and done some role research. Once you claimed, you could have asked the advice of your fellow players. More importantly, you could have expressed your opinion in any number of appropriate places, including in specific discussions where it has come up in the recent past. Or you could have waited and then expressed the opinion in a way that doesn't insult someone.

What you did was react to a mistake

that you made

by blaming someone else in a way that insulted him. Ad nauseum. Via public appeal, ridiculous strawmen, ego masturbation, false altruism, caps lock rage, and unfounded accusations. All in spite of dozens of people telling you that you are wrong. If you're going to choose to act like that and insist on having a problem with me pointing out that you are doing so, then maybe you should GTFO.

This is the second thread I have participated in that you have reduced to childish drama over nothing and, frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

[Ythill]

Also...

Hugs!

[Ythill]

Yeah I enjoyed playing with you, Far.

[Ythill]

One tanker of ooops does not a fail train make. Hug mug.

Scum QT was a good read. You had a few misreads but overall you played a very good game and certainly deserved the win. I'm going to go ahead and admit that my exuberant town read on UK was exaggerated a bit as a method of self-preservation. Sorry UK.

[Ythill]

After freaking out, running away is the next step in the emotional cycle that prevents you from growing. And I say that with love. But of course you're free to do whatever you like.

@Reck:

Heh. I missed that.

[Ythill]

@TL:

That was on purpose. If people want to buddy up with me in the early game, I'm fine with it and I'll even give them a D1 pass for it. As demonstrated by my D2 play, it doesn't make someone immune to my scumreads but, if that person happens to be scum, it slightly increases my chance of living through the night.

@SFG:

Take it however you want, but my criticism of your specific behavior has absolutely nothing to do with my overall view of you. I didn't say you're incapable of growing. Actually, I implied the opposite, meaning that I think sticking around will do you some good. This place has thickened my skin considerably, sharpened my mind, and made me a better person overall, and I don't think that was a fluke. All those arrows I posted are pointing in the same direction; read what I wrote with your head instead of your heart.