Newbie 994: Stop! In the Name of Sudo! Game Over!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Confirm

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oi, to head off question of this nature: I respond to nearly any variation of that from the full thing to DDD, Danny to DDDP to "Hey, you" as long as I know that I'm the "Hey, you" you're referring to. As the IC, I'm here to answer questions and provide some order to the game while also playing the game. If you have some question not related directly to your role (those questions should be sent to Sudo) feel free to ask them. It is much better to ask a question than to blunder and hurt the town accidentally.

Other than that, you get out of this game what you put in. So if you want to have fun, come in with a positive attitude, don't take any debate, arguments, or accusations personally and just pretend it's Pat Benetar and give it your best shot. I think experience is the best teacher and so unless otherwise prompted I'll be playing the game the same as the rest of you.

~

VOTE: warriormode; Game has already started homie.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Danny

Is there a reason why you don't want to answer any of the questions that have been asked? Or is there a reason why you haven't?

First off I'm on the record as not liking "question time" and I stand by that, I don't think there's much of anything to be learned. Have I ever played IRL? Who cares? Secondly, in regards to the "technical" type questions I didn't want to swoop in as the voice of authority and shut down the discussion people were having. I will now offer these three opinions on key matters however...

Lynch all liars is a terrible policy; obviously there are sometimes where it makes sense to lynch liars but just about as often I've seen a townie make a mistake and refuse to back down or simply think it would be more convenient to lie and then get caught doing so. As with anything lying has to be judged in context. Lynch all liars is a good threat to try and prevent people from lying, but it's bad policy to commit to it. Hammering is the same way as it should always be judged within context except someone always has to do it so it's especially dumb to demonize; but if you're going to hammer you need to be confident in your instincts.

In regards to post length, I agree with seth, but maybe not for the same reasons. Long posts are unwieldy and unlikely to be significantly more convincing than just a few short lines. Thus they bog the town down in minutia and delays without really providing any marginal benefit.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Seth, why'd you pick needle as the one to start bandwagoning?
Why not warriormode so your target would have more than one vote and thus be an actual bandwagon?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Seth, why'd you pick needle as the one to start bandwagoning?
Why not warriormode so your target would have more than one vote and thus be an actual bandwagon?

Why are you encouraging seth to start a actual bandwagon? Do you find bandwagons in favor of the town?
I don't really know what's most effective due to my lack of experience but if bandwagons are really effective, why don't you vote for needle?

I was simply trying to understand the logic; seth claimed we needed a bandwagon but then placed a vote with no reason for someone who didn't have any votes. If he really wanted to start a bandwagon then he needed to give people a reason to vote for needle and join his bandwagon or he needed to vote for someone who already had votes and thus continue along a bandwagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@ Danny

I have given a reason, and I've explained why I didn't BW onto Warrior. You're making it sound like I didn't want to start a BW but that I just wanted an excuse to vote needle. I don't see why I would need an excuse to vote needle as town, so that would make me scum FYPOV right? Then why haven't you voted me? Unless there's a reason FYPOV why I'd want to find an excuse to vote needle as town?

You gave your reasons afterward; if you're looking to start a bandwagon it makes sense to lead with your reasons to convince others to join your bandwagon.

And I'm not voting for you because I believe you're more likely to be town than scum and you certainly look more town than some others, including the one I'm voting for, but just because I believe you're town doesn't mean I'm going to poke and prod and things that I find incongruous.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm trying to decide if those who've jumped the bad seth bandwagon or those who are waffling just off it are scummier right now, it's a tough call.

Reasons why we should be bandwagoning warriormode:
1) His tone in his first post with any content seems alienated. Good luck? I have a hard time seeing a townie wishing the rest of the town good luck, it seems more natural coming from an outside perspective and the only outside perspective in this game is scum.
2) Votes seth, since I think seth is townie mctownerson this is bad.
3) Super unsubtly tries to get me to move my vote off of him onto someone else by suggesting the value in a bandwagon. It's phrased innocuously but the intent is quite clear.

I would also help bandwagon iamatree for mostly the same reasons at this point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry you did answer my question. but I still stick to all of my other statements

I'd like to note that beyond this your arguments consist essentially of a weak argument that tone cannot be used to judge alignment. I say otherwise, perhaps you will always say "good luck" or perhaps in this case I'm reading the situation wrong, but it is a legitimate form of analysis and in this case I believe it to be correct. Other than that, I think your second point amounted to "nuh uh" so after you conceded reason #3 and I've eliminated your other reasons for your vote you're looking rather foolish right now.

@Seth The big problem is that warriormode is pressing votes and arguments based on "x didn't happen" when x did in fact happen. This means that warriormode is NOT reading the thread for content which suggests that in fact he's not looking for scum, instead just making arguments: a function of scum not town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry you did answer my question. but I still stick to all of my other statements

I'd like to note that beyond this your arguments consist essentially of a weak argument that tone cannot be used to judge alignment. I say otherwise, perhaps you will always say "good luck" or perhaps in this case I'm reading the situation wrong, but it is a legitimate form of analysis and in this case I believe it to be correct. Other than that, I think your second point amounted to "nuh uh" so after you conceded reason #3 and I've eliminated your other reasons for your vote you're looking rather foolish right now.

@Seth The big problem is that warriormode is pressing votes and arguments based on "x didn't happen" when x did in fact happen. This means that warriormode is NOT reading the thread for content which suggests that in fact he's not looking for scum, instead just making arguments: a function of scum not town.

So you are calling someone who says "Good Luck" = Scum a legitimate form of Analysis? And no, my 2nd point did not amount to "nuh uh", it actually said (believe it or not) I'm making better arguments then you are! And no, I did not completely eliminate reason 3. I still said that I don't care that you have a vote on me because I know your bandwagon will never work seeing that 4 other people will have to agree with the arguments that you made. (Note: your best argument is your "legitimate" form of analysis :arrow: "good luck" = scum)

I actually do read the content, which is why I took off my vote on seth who was at L-2 and put it on someone who actually seems suspicious to me. Also I'm pretty sure that Apple claimed that your making arguments without legitimate reasons. I'm not really sure who agrees with you right now. And also note once you find someone you think is scum you can start the arguing.

A) I usually get more value out of evaluating tone than someone's arguments. Everyone mostly makes the same sort of arguments whether town or scum, but I know personally I speak from a different tone when town and when scum even though I try to make them the same. You can roll your eyes all you like, but there's definite value in such analysis.

B) Maybe no one agrees with me right now, but the rest of the town looks like a squishy bunch. They'll screw around without seriously pressuring anyone and then it'll get near deadline and I'll be the only one with a case and arguments and a bandwagon all set up to go and they'll probably fall in line behind me if I keep pushing. Course I might change my mind by then, but right now that's the current plan, care to keep lobbing softballs in my direction so I can keep knocking them out of the park?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I find it weird that Danny is getting on to people about not posting their reasoning or posting it after an explanation is requested, yet has been doing it himself (see warrior vote and insistence that seth is town).

Certain times reasons are needed and certain times they are not and the distinction should be plain to see.

Warriormode was initially a "random" vote and thus there was no solid reason for the vote. However, when I wanted to turn it into a legitimate bandwagon, I provided reasons. I've noted my opinion on seth so it's on the record and others have to think about that, if seth was under heavy pressure and I truly believed he was town then I would explain my logic to defend him, since he has not been brought under heavy pressure I haven't had to worry about stepping in and making a defense of a player I consider to be town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

3) Super unsubtly tries to get me to move my vote off of him onto someone else by suggesting the value in a bandwagon. It's phrased innocuously but the intent is quite clear.

Reason #3- [...]How can you justify that I was trying to make you move your vote. I don't care if you have your vote on me. Especially with these reasons.[...]

So Danny, how do you justify that warriormode was trying to make you move your vote? Can you show us that this was warriormode's true intent and that this argument isn't a fairly basic attempt to interpret an ambiguous post to your advantage? Tone is something you can pick up from text on the internet, but intent is a whole other business.

He suggested I move my vote to needle for a bandwagon, despite the fact that I had made no statements indicating that I thought bandwagonning was a positive activity or that I was suspicious of needle. Since there's no logical reason I can find for him to encourage me to take on an activity I had shown no inclination to partake in, it is far more logical that he was looking to move my vote off of him and a needle bandwagon was merely the excuse given.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thanks iamatree and applefarmer. That will make it easier to read.

@DDDP: Why do you think you'll be the only one with a suspicion at deadline? We already have (as a town) suspicions on warriormode, iamatree, and seth.

It feels to me as if the seth wagon has already peaked. But my argument wasn't about any specific wagon but the fact that most everyone hears seems rather laid back, there's no one baying for blood and no bandwagon gaining serious traction. And thus I believe my conclusion about the shape of this day to be the likeliest outcome.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, so here are some further thoughts. You guys are lucky I'm replacing in, as I don't adopt any crazy meta's when I sub in, I don't want to shake things up when having to have replacements have already done that... Well my first thought was that Needle was scummy as hell for various reasons etc, and was planning on voting him.. THen I realized I replaced him. Oops.

Unvote; Vote: DavidParker

I love it when people make my life easy because they reveal themselves to be scum. The above is a perfect example of a scumtell I've borrowed from my buddy Amished. It's worked very well for him and for me in the few places where I've seen it. The explanation is as follows...

For those of you that don't know what's going on; I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum. This is a refinement from what I had it (if you read your replacement at all you were scum); but this seems to cover all the instances where I've seen/remember it. If you're town, you really don't have to worry about your predecessor as you know they're town; but if you think that they're scummy; then you're scum. As town, you know that you're not scummy and don't deserve criticism at all.

~

As for attacks leveled against me, they appear to be mostly bellyaching about my playstyle and don't amount to substansive arguments about my role. If someone wants a specific rebuttal to soemthing anyone has said then I'll need a direct quote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He suggested I move my vote to needle for a bandwagon, despite the fact that I had made no statements indicating that I thought bandwagonning was a positive activity or that I was suspicious of needle. Since there's no logical reason I can find for him to encourage me to take on an activity I had shown no inclination to partake in, it is far more logical that he was looking to move my vote off of him and a needle bandwagon was merely the excuse given.

He didn't suggest that, he asked you a question which you interpreted as having a deeper meaning. What I was asking you was what reason you have to believe that the question was really a suggestion. So, what was it?

Because he asked "why don't you vote for needle", not "why didn't you vote for needle" the latter is a question seeking an explanation while the former is phrased in such a way to promote a certain action.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

... and then you call attention to it, which is where the scum-tell comes in. You basically say "Yeah, he looked like scum to me too - btw, he wasn't (ie, I'm not)." Whether or not this is a quality scum-tell is up for debate, but it definitely does apply to you.

Question to others: Does attacking a scum-tell that has just been applied to you (and with no argument) come off as scummy? (See: DavidParker's latest post).

Not really, he has an equally vested interest in removing suspicion placed upon him whether town or scum and the quality (or lack thereof) of his argument is unlikely to be driven that much by his alignment.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Because he asked "why don't you vote for needle", not "why didn't you vote for needle" the latter is a question seeking an explanation while the former is phrased in such a way to promote a certain action.

I disagree, but since my question was what convinced you that he was suggesting and not asking, I'll have to take that as an answer.

If I "ask" you "Why don't you go jump in a lake?" I'm not really asking a question I'm telling you off. If I "asked" you "Do you still beat your wife?" I'm not looking for one answer or another but instead to tar your reputation. Don't get confused by a rhetorical device just because it features a question mark at the end.

That leaves another question I asked you and which you have ignored:

So, Danny, can you identify other parts of warriormode's posts that have this scummy tone?

Would you mind answering that still?

I would suggest the mild smiley face abuse from him can be a scumtell as it allows one to make damaging or aggressive statements while still trying to maintain a "still friends" perspective and thus drawing less criticism or blowback in the process. I've seen that one be both true and false so I don't put a large amount of stock in it. Other than that his tone has been mostly neutral.

@DDDP I can see several specific arguments in DavidParker's post that you haven't bothered to respond to. If you believe all there is to his suspicion of you is a dislike of you playing style, you clearly haven't read his post very well. This, added to the fact that so far you have only responded to one of the two questions I asked you means that instead of asking us to do your work for you (presenting you with direct quotes) I suggest you take a bit more time to READ THE THREAD FOR CONTENT. Why did I emphasise that? This is why:

This means that warriormode is NOT reading the thread for content which suggests that in fact he's not looking for scum, instead just making arguments: a function of scum not town.

Hypocritical much?

Not in the slightest, I believe my summation of his arguments is relatively correct. If you or he believe it to be incorrect in some case then bring the issue forward and I'll willingly discuss the specifics. I read the thread for content, addressed the insubstantial criticisms I saw and opened the floor for rebuttal. Warriormode on the conversely made arguments based on incorrect facts when the truth was readily available to him. I guess you could say my response was lazy, but its not factually wrong which are two different kettles of fish.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If I "ask" you "Why don't you go jump in a lake?" I'm not really asking a question I'm telling you off. If I "asked" you "Do you still beat your wife?" I'm not looking for one answer or another but instead to tar your reputation. Don't get confused by a rhetorical device just because it features a question mark at the end.

I understand the rhetorics involed and yet I still disagree. There's a difference between your examples and the sentence used by warriormode. Warriormode used a two-part phrase: "If ..., then why...". This structure is used to signal a percieved contradiction, regardless of wether the person using it is personally affected by the answer. Had he just said "why don't you go vote for needle" things would have been different.

Compare:
Suggestion - Why don't you become a vegan?
Signalled contradiction - If you're a vegan, then why do you have your fridge filled with meat?

The signalled contradiction could be used by anyone who opens that fridge and is surprised at seeing meat, regardless of wether that person thinks the meat should be removed.

But you've flipped the analogy because he didn't note contradiction. He made an assumption about something and then promoted something based off of that. The correct analogy looks like...

"If your fridge doesn't have any meat anyways, why don't you become a vegan?"

Which takes a (informed or in warriormode's case uninformed) fact and from there makes a suggestion based off that information.

Now, end of page 2. THe part i dont like about DDDP is he isn't getting things moving and some proper discussion moving! I feel he should be encouraging people to vote.. less than half of the players have used their vote at this point.. RVS is a great way to get some early weak bandwagons (that will usually fall later) and good discussion and wagon analysis happening. But he has put down a vote then been happy with the way noone else has voted.. Doesn't seem to be working under a town agenda to me!

This is certainly not merely bellyaching about your playing style, it is about wether the most experienced player around is trying to help the town forward or not and about wether that is possible under a town agenda.

Actually it’s exactly a complaint about playstyle, David's point is that I'm not playing as aggressively as he thinks I should. This makes a faulty assumption that there is only one way to play (as a town IC) when part of the beauty of the IC role is that it exposes players to all different sort of veteran players and their ideas, some extremely aggressive, some who explain every single detail and some who simply throw you in the deep end and say "start swimming".

I will also count the question I asked you about warriormode's tone as unrelated to your playing style, as it applied directly to the strength of your case against warriormode.

Agreed in part that it is related to my playing style, but I disagree with the idea that tone has to be more than a single point. I've caught scum before based on a single strange wording and I once busted a whole scum team based on a single information slip (though personally I didn't follow up on it correctly). Now the argument regarding tone in this case isn't nearly as strong as those two cases, but I disagree with your assertion that it is only valid if there's more than one occurrence. If the standard required more than one awkward phrasing or more than one slip then I wouldn't have been able to deduce those previous cases as scum which I was based on just single observations.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Seven days to go and I will be

V/LA this weekend

. Which means we need to get cracking. I've never pulled this particular stunt before, but it's not exactly brain surgery so I propose a temporary alliance.

I propose seth, Applefarmer, dimaba, and theperson as reading most town to me all join me in this alliance to decide who to pressure and lynch today. I then propose we do this by IRV (Instant Run-Off Voting) listing the four other players in order from most desire to lynch to least desire to lynch. We then look at the first place votes and see if there's a majority, if there's not then we eliminate candidates one by one until someone has a majority. The minority in this alliance agrees to support the majority decision. This alliance is only for today (game day) and tomorrow every player is once again on their own unless a new alliance is deemed useful.

What say, ye knaves?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

One thing I would like to point out: DDD just used similar logic to his case on me to switch his vote to DP. Any thoughts?

Try it again in English.

How can anyone follow him his case really. He doesn't use good logic and he has to be asked at least twice and properly to answer questions (God damnit man, just answer them! If you didn't see it thats different, but if you don't answer a question because of wording... thats ridiculous).

I don't answer every question because some of them aren't worth answering, simple as that.

The deadline is coming up, I'm keeping my vote on DDD,

but I'm fine with any lynch

. I only ask that we don't follow DDD's vote based on his logic so far. If you vote with DDD at least come up with better reasons than his.

"Hey guys, I'm fine lynching anyone else besides me." = stance of scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm actually inclined to disagree. While Warrior hasn't done any scumhunting so far that confirms him to me as town, he

has

tried. I'll do a reread later and vote when I have more time.

He really hasn't. His sole argument lately is that my arguments about other people are bad. And that may well be the case (I disagree but for the sake of this point we'll grant it), but he's completely failed to create any link between bad arguments and the role of scum. Incidentally something that is basically impossible to do since it's very easy to make bad arguments as town and good arguments as scum.

Then of course there's his most recent stance that he'll accept any old lynch which is dreadful and scummy policy.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

For someone who has used "tone" as an argument and reason to vote someone this game, your posts strike me to have a somewhat desperate and scummy tone to them DDDP. This "desperation" is not only shown in your town but by you trying to form this alliance it seems. Just my view on your last couple posts.

My alliance proposal was put together because a majority does not appear to be persuaded by my arguments for a single player and I'm going to be gone three of the next seven days which doesn't give me that much ability or time to do things the way I'd like to do them. Hence I'd rather protect both myself and the players I think are town and lynch one of the players I think are scum and that seemed like the easiest and most viable way to achieve that goal.

What you call desperate I call transparent.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Warriormode is just flailing around... Not like a scum would though. I don't support this lynch.

That isn't helpful at all, how and/or why is he "town flailing" instead of "scum flailing"?

Last chance for me to post for a while, I'm moving my vote over to the bandwagon which I helped to start originally and now finally has some momentum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: warriormode

I will be back and able to post either late Sunday or mid-day Monday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't think that asking for a claim matters as much as David made it out to be [on Day 1, at the very least]. Even if someone WERE to claim Cop, he wouldn't have any information to divulge and we'd assume he is lying [or else we wouldn't have pushed him with enough votes to make him claim anyway, right?] and lynch him anyways. It's a great idea to ask for claims before hammering from this point onward, I think, but Apple's "mistake" isn't a big deal.

It certainly matters, the town loses a huge advantage by lynching their cop even a claimed cop because at very least that requires scum to kill or roleblock that player instead of using their night actions in a method they'd prefer and while a cop claim could certainly be false its worth it to get the claim on the board and thus get a counterclaim or have something very concerte to work off of in the future. That's not to say I think applefarmer is scum because of the hammer, but it was indeed a mistake that luckily didn't hurt the town.

~~

Volo, answer this question for me and answer it starting with the phrase "That depends if..."; do you have the same alignment as tanstalas?

***I'll slowly be catching up and responding to certain posts and thoughts throughout the day.***

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Really did not like DDDP quoting Amished's post of criticizing someones posts of who you replaced into it is a scumtell, and then he votes DP based on that.

I have to assume this part was directed at me and I’d love to know why you don’t like someone bringing in a scumtell they’ve found to be accurate and useful before and applying it.

Also, I'm pretty sure DP is obvtown - as a fairly experienced player he could have come up with a good reason to hammer warriormode.

You obviously know what WIFOM is since you mention it later, but I’m a bit confused how you didn’t recognize this argument for being just that. Since people are almost invariably more suspicious of people on an incorrect wagon, so it makes sense for scum to avoid being on an incorrect wagon if possible. But town might realize that and suspect people off the wagon so it actually makes more sense for scum to be on the wagon, but…

WIFOM

.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reason being is I think we have a doc. We do not know WHAT we have but we know it is a doc/cop or both. If I were the scum I would not try to kill the IC as the IC is probably going to be protected if there is a doc.

Though it could also mean the IC is scum as well, or the scum wanted me to think that so they didn't kill the IC for that reason alone (a bit WIFOM'y - I know) I really do think the 2 scum lie in these three though.

And this is why night kill speculation is useless. It might be that we have a doctor and that forced scum to try and kill someone other than me, it might be that scum thought they had a read on a power role, it might be that scum thought they should kill a player that no one really thought was scum, it might be that I'm scum, and it might be that scum pretty much randomly killed so that there's no possible way for us to correctly divine their motives. There are too many options and we have too little information to make such analysis worthwhile.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have to assume this part was directed at me and I’d love to know why you don’t like someone bringing in a scumtell they’ve found to be accurate and useful before and applying it.

Because I clearly do not agree with it, as mentioned by others I have replaced in to games where I was reading the thread before a spot even came open and thought the person I replaced in for seemed scummy and turned out to be town.

Yeah, but you didn't make public comments to that effect; now granted that's probably at least partially because I dropped the tell I did on the board but given what has just happened I think I'm pretty freaking vindicated right now. A fake claim here is completely nonsensical, if for some reason it is fake then it's an auto-lynch tomorrow of scum anyways, but I'm pretty confident I was right.

VOTE: DavidParker

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I would never, ever fake claim an innocent on my partner if I was scum fake claiming cop. That's not to say DP/??? wouldn't but this singular incident is far from compelling. This is far from open and shut and we should proceed slowly and not rush into a possible mistake.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Lol... Awesome...

Still waiting for a an actual case to be made against me...

DDD, Volo, I assume neither of you need a claim, as it's pretty obv what the set-up is.

Actually if I were planning to hammer then yes I'd want a claim, I have a policy of never making any more assumptions than I have to even if it seems obvious. However, at this juncture I have no intent to hammer you and thus I do not want a claim; I will let you know if the situation changes.

I'll get an in-depth re-read of the game done tonight/this weekend and give you my thoughts. In the meanwhile, let's revise and expand what I asked yesterday and make a whole circle of it...

Volo, answer this question for me and answer it starting with the phrase "That depends if..."; do you have the same alignment as Beanman?

Beanman, answer this question for me and answer it starting with the phrase "That depends if..."; do you have the same alignment as tanstalas?

tanstalas, answer this question for me and answer it starting with the phrase "That depends if..."; do you have the same alignment as applefarmer?

applefarmer, answer this question for me and answer it starting with the phrase "That depends if..."; do you have the same alignment as Volo?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD triple post, effective immediately...

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reasons why the latest assertions suggesting I’m scum are absurd:

1) In response to tanstalas’ 245: I’d generically point to my post #202 as a response. But more specifically it looks to me as if scum killed dimaba night one because absolutely no one suspected him of being scum and conversely multiple people suspected me of being scum. And I shouldn’t even have to answer as to why I wasn’t killed night two because that shit is obvious.

2) Volo’s hit and run argument in 254 is extremely weak. First off it’s completely lacking in context. She suggests that I was distancing from DP when DP replaced into the game and immediately voted for me. Distancing is far more common on later days and done when both scum have planned it out; since it was D1 and DP would not have had a chance to talk to his scum partner this is an extremely aggressive assertion. Even if we assume the aggressiveness to be true her argument falls apart because it’s predicated around my case being “intentionally bad” when not only did I provide a link to the history and evidence supporting the tell, but the tell was RIGHT. Given that fact, her entire assertion is absurd and must be rejected.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reasons why applefarmer is probably town:

1) Immediate day two bus? Not buying that as likely, especially when DavidParker had already earned himself likely town cred by avoiding being on the D1 mislynch.

2) His end of the day post, specifically day one where DP looks like he’s setting him up. They look pretty natural to me and it looks like scum was trying to take advantage of him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reasons why

Volo

SnakePlissken is probably the last scum:

1) iamatree and tone issues. I know somewhere between some and all of you are looking at me like, “not this again” but I didn’t just make those arguments about warriormode up. The tells might not be as effective as I’d like, but they do exist and they apply here just like they did to warriormode.

2) iamatree’s bad jump onto the bad seth wagon. Given the timing, position, and lack of reasons this really just looks crazy scummy to me. It’s early in the game, but not too early for a real wagon, she’s in third position allowing the bandwagon to get big but not have to hammer and her given reason was complete nonsense.

3) Instantly comes into the game and defends DavidParker! Yes, I know others of you have doubted the veracity of the tell I used but really the first thing they do is defend the player we know is scum. And it’s not like they even had to go out on a limb to do it considering the rest of the town’s general uneasiness with my play.

4) Where is the content from Volo? It can be very hard for scum, especially noob scum to generate content because your attempts to scumhunt are completely fraudulent and thus feel off to you which means you’re less likely to post since it feels wrong.

VOTE: SnakePlissken

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Snake, Beanman asked for a claim and that means role not just "not scum" and given prior discussion that means he probably is willing to drop the hammer on you. The only way I see that not happening is that you let us know that you're actually the doctor; that means you need to claim truthfully and fully ASAP.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nope I'm just a townie. How would you know if I was claiming truthfully or not anyway? If I was a mafia then I would have lied anyway? That's weird logic of posting there Triple D

Not really, I think everyone else could see what I was trying to do and why.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

*Shrug* I don't know that and some people don't read games they replace into thoroughly. Basically no risk and the possibility of ending the game early with an open and shut win = I make that post every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Triple D has fiired off assignations in my direction without allowing a moments breathing space. I understand he is basing this on my previous postees but he could have waited for me to at least get a first post in and then fire off his opinion. To me that is someone using their experience to get the others to back him on deflecting possible chance of Italian heritage into me.

I'm bored so I'm going to respond to this claptrap. I "fiired off assignations" when I did because as I explained previously I was doing a re-read on Friday and would post that night or that weekend with my thoughts. So my posting wasn't an attempt to do anything other than post my thoughts when I was first available to do so.

I'm not even sure what the second sentance actually means, I certainly use my experience to both develop reads and inform me about the game state. I'm not sure it's possible for me to abuse my experience though; if anything it feels to me as if most players in this game have reacted rather cynically when I've tried to bring up things my experience suggests to me. And I have no idea where he's going with the Italian heritage bit, especially since I aint Italian (like at all, not even partially).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It feels really good to get a win in my first game back from my hiatus and even better a win where I was actually both right and reasonably effective in playing. Sorry about lynching you D1 warriormode, but most of the things I said about you applied to iamatree as well and they were accurate in that case. In mafia a 50% success rate for a tell is in all reality fantastic since only 22% of the players are scum (in Newbie games). Big ups to theperson for correctly investigating on D1, I'm not sure how D2 would've gone otherwise and it certainly allowed me to regain my feet.

Feel free to to use everything you learned in this game in future games, I just ask that the tell I pulled on DavidParker is properly credited to Amished and not to me and don't abuse it. If you think you can lynch someone without it do so, if you're not sure it applies or not then don't reference it. Most tells are only effective as long as they're relatively unknown, as soon as people know about a tell they make sure they don't do it so if you want the tell to be effective for you then you need to keep it on the down low as much as possible.

If anyone has any questions about anything from the game feel free to ask them.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thought you'd like that.