Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[yabbaguy]

WTF no claim?

He's on L-1. If he claims vanilla or something unconvincing, THEN you hammer. Simple.

(simul with Ythan)

[drmyshottyizsik]

Sorry, I just have almost no faith in claims anymore. He could easily claim cop or doc knowing he would die anyway just to draw out the reall one so they would be nk'd.

[Ythan]

That's anti-town. There are proper ways to deal with claims, even ones you don't believe.

[Zajnet]

Sorry, I just have almost no faith in claims anymore. He could easily claim cop or doc knowing he would die anyway just to draw out the reall one so they would be nk'd.

A) there can be two cops or two docs in this game.
B) A Cop/Doc trade for a scum is good for the town.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok, sorry
I'll

Unvote

incase all scum isnt already voting him, I dont want a hammer before claim.

[Ythan]

incase all scum isnt already voting him,

I dont want a hammer before claim.

Do I need to explain why

this

is disingenuous?

[drmyshottyizsik]

incase all scum isnt already voting him,

I dont want a hammer before claim.

Do I need to explain why

this

is disingenuous?

Yes

[Ythan]

It's exactly the opposite of what you were saying a mere moment before.

[Prox]

I guess I'd hammer if the time came.

Sorry, just finished marathoning, need to re-read a bit.

[Prox]

Wth heck is wrong with Dry-Fit? Either he's barely trying, or he's trying hard to look like he's trying.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

.

Claim or no claim, I cannot believe how ridiculous you are. Your claim just saved your ass and now you want to hammer someone else before claim? Then you backtrack as Ythan pointed out and do a complete 180 on your stance.

[yabbaguy]

Why do you distrust the claim, Ald? All the signs, the way I see it, point to letting him ride to LyLo or be the NK.

[The Fonz]

I'm somewhat surprised at people's assessment of Drmyshottyizsik claim being a poor one for scum. Yes, it might be 50% there's no D's at all. But think about it. If he claims backup, there's a 50% chance that there's no doc, but that won't get found out until massclaim, which probably happens at LyLo- ie, delays his lynch at least a couple of days if believed. Secondly, there's much less risk of a counter than with a doc or cop claim, because the probability of a backup doc in the setup is pretty low (but no SO low as to render the claim unbelievable). Thirdly, he doesn't have to fabricate night action results. As far as I can see, it's a BRILLIANT scumclaim.

I still find Dry-Fit incredibly scummy, but Zajnet conveniently hopping off the fence in order to declare willingness to hammer everyone else's suspect really sticks in my craw.

[yabbaguy]

Say Dr (backup) Doc rides to LyLo. If no Doctor claims come, then he's obv lying and he's gonzo. One thing to note is that there's no indication to the Mafia that a Doc exists unless e.g. SK and Doctor both exist and Mafia's kill was stopped. It could also be a Blocker's meddling, but drawing a B for an input is far less likely.

On the flipside, say a Doctor claim

does

come. That makes it a trifle more complicated.

The tricky thing in this game is that each backup role, amongst the plethora of roles that exist in this game

can only exist once

. If shotty is fakeclaiming, and an

actual

backup Doctor exists, the CC comes and shotty is lynched straightaway. There's actually a quite bit more risk, and while this starts to be the recursive logic loop we affectionately call WIFOM, I don't see why scum would want to go for the role that carries the greatest risk of resulting in an immediate lynch.

I find it questionable if scum were to fakeclaim this, and thus I believe him.

[The Fonz]

Three of any one letter other than T, I think, is so unlikely that a counterclaim ought to come if anyone claimed doc or cop, especially since we know there's two Vs. In which case, the chance of a nurse counterclaim is only ever so slightly higher, and the fact that you don't have to deal with the 'Why wasn't X nightkilled?' factor helps as well. I just think it's what I'd do if i were run up day one as scum in this setup.

[Dry-fit]

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit

Saying your top suspect is trying to scumhunt is inconsistent, as only town try to scumhunt.

Well you should be able to tell me who all the scum are right now then. Seriously do you guys not pretend to scumhunt as scum? Dr accused Ythan of not scumhunting (or not appearing to scumhunt.) I didn't see how he could see things that way.

unvote. Vote; Netlava.

Rediculous wagoning.

Should I still cllaim or no?

Wth heck is wrong with Dry-Fit? Either he's barely trying, or he's trying hard to look like he's trying.

I probably should have replaced out. I'm recovering from surgery and then got a computer virus at the same time.

[Prox]

Mmmmmm...you'll need to claim, yes.

[Prox]

Wait. Nvm. I dont thinl Ill hammer, at least.

[Prox]

Dry hasn't done anything scummy, except for his activity, and I have to trust OOG excuses like that. If Dry turns out to be lying, I'll never forgive him, but that's that.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.12

Dry-fit - 4 - The Fonz, ekiM, Beefster, Netlava
Alduskkel - 1 - Ythan
Beefster - 1 - Zajnet
drmyshottyizsik - 1 - Alduskkel
Netlava - 1 - Dry-fit
Ythan - 1 - yabbaguy

Not voting: Prox, drmyshottyizsik

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch. Deadline: August 16

V/LA: yabbaguy, Aug 13-16

Approximately 3.5 days until deadline.

[Alduskkel]

@yabbaguy: Well, Nurses aren't very high NK targets until a Doctor dies. drmy is enough of a VI that I, as scum, would probably save until near-lylo to off.

Even if the claim is possibly a poor one for scum, I don't really think highly enough of drmy's play to think he wouldn't risk a counter claim.

[Alduskkel]

Also Dry Fit is a poor lynch. He's been lurking for IRL reasons. He just said he had surgery. Who lies about that?!

[Beefster]

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit

Saying your top suspect is trying to scumhunt is inconsistent, as only town try to scumhunt.

Well you should be able to tell me who all the scum are right now then. Seriously do you guys not pretend to scumhunt as scum? Dr accused Ythan of not scumhunting (or not appearing to scumhunt.) I didn't see how he could see things that way.

unvote. Vote; Netlava.

Rediculous wagoning.

Does anyone else see OMGUS, or is it just me?

[Prox]

I don't usually find OMGUS a good tell anyways. What's the scum motivation for it?

While Dry's point seems...flat, I can't help but think Beefster was opportunistic in his vote for Dry-fit.

vote Beefster

I mean, something like saying "trying" instead of "pretending" is a weak reason for a vote.

[Beefster]

You didn't answer my question.

And why doesn't he just replace out if he's having IRL problems sapping his time?