/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[Zajnet]

Sorry guys, but I'll be V/LA until Wednesday for UTD Fish Camp.

[Locke Lamora]

Magna: I don't see it. How does your first question lead on to anything to do with widening the meta field? Was your original objection similar to mine or not?

The above post diminishes my opinion of Zajnet further, if that was possible. Perhaps I'll put the issue in a different light; can anyone tell me why we shouldn't lynch him?

[Sotty7]

I was away the last couple of days but I see Icog has been awesome and moved the deadline back. So I will rest up and catch up on what I missed tomorrow morning.

[Porochaz]

@farside Maybe its because it's been a while since Ive been in a game with you (- the PYP, which was unusual circumstances) however my read of you is your usually well reasoned, you explain your votes - or anything you do - well, you seem to be relying on your gut more, this may be because your not explaining your reasoning more, you also ask a lot more questions, which you did to a degree anyway but with a lot more volume now, you also are emphasising your votes more without really bringing anything new to the table, something that someone like Llama or tajo would do, and you are a lot more aggressive, it's like Mafia Mum has rebellious teenagers. You also didn't seem the type to do scum/town lists particularly as I thought you would prefer to keep them private due to the potential information that it gives. Oh and also letting CDB get away with what he is doing.

[Charlie]

[quote"Locke Lamora"]Charlie: how do you go from agreeing that there are better lynches out there to putting your vote back on? Are you trying to prove to us that you can play aggressively for some reason?[/quote]
Could it be that I'm simply stumbling about trying to get some discussion going on when in actual fact I'm doing just that: stumbling about? A different playstyle should get different reactions so I can proceed accordingly.

Only if the person hammered is town, you seem to be assuming that there would be scrutiny tomorrow, and that will only happen if the person is town...

Therefore, you are assuming the person is town.

If I'm lucky, that what will the scenario be? This is a WIFOM trap. You're suspicious for this!

At this point I think Charlie and Zach are both probable scum. Farside is giving me a town read everyone else is kinda mixed in there.

Not a bad point. I'd look into it but I'm there so...uh...

After reading Charlie's play, he's done some strange things... but I can't really classify him as likely to be scum. His actions just seem too blatant to me, actions that draw a lot of attention, which is something scum generally don't want.

The process of playing differently is somewhat bad for my psyche as well...I have to consciously remember that I'm purposely not playing how I normally play here! Experimenting is tech.

When you vote for Sotty at 101 it is your first mention of her. When you placed your vote on her (in the dreaded third slot) she was competing with Jack and Poro for wagon leader. You’ve repeatedly stated that you wanted to take a side in the Jack / Sotty debate but didn’t choose the side of the player who ‘confused’ you. This seems off to me.

Stop right there. There is a flaw. I wanted to take a side, but in no way can you said I'm inclined to pick one based on YOUR assumptions. These are mine and only mine to make. You are putting words in my mouth and I can't highlight this enough so perhaps

you

are ever so

bold

.

You can’t for certain determine when they are Mafia or not. That’s a straw-man attack. You commented that one of the two is exhibiting behaviour that you expect from a Mafian. You do not indicate which player it is. That’s fence-sitting, which I believe is a bad thing.

You've mistaken cluelessness for fence-sitting! I for one am not ashamed to admit that I have no general direction of who is REALLY the mafia and am going on the concept of a dangling carrot. Thing is, if I hit the carrot hard enough people are bound to notice and maybe said carrot will hit others too and cause a domino effect of accusations thus generating discussion (is this a good or bad analogy?).

But hopping on a popular wagon as opposed to questioning / putting pressure on the player whose behavior you find confusing or scummy is much worse than actually following up on suspicions.

You may be right and honestly I was hoping that is not the case. Oh well, what's done is done and I cannot defend against this point now.

Why are you uncomfortable about others drawing conclusions based on your play?

Didn’t you chide me for not expressing opinions about people’s play earlier? You can't credibly call out someone for not expressing opinions and then attack them when they do.

Firstly, I did not ignore it...I just wasn't sure this war warranted a reply because of the nature of the question. It can be viewed as rhetorical, but that is the problem with duality of things.

A proper answer: I'm not really sure of what I'm doing. Any conclusion I give out would be dishonest because I myself am unsure/not very confident of it. All the players here know how to handle questions thrown at them and all seem to follow a 'textbook' style of play. To effectively throw the mafia off balance, one should do the unexpected and get unexpected replies. These are cross-referenced by other players who know said players from previous games and their input combined to draw a solid conclusion. I'm somewhat unorthodox, but am trying to do it right. The method isn't important, the end result is to lynch mafia.

I realize the thought process above is convoluted but that is generally what is going on right now.

Then you don’t question said players and lazily slap you vote back on me. Your actions are in conflict with your stated opinions. Scummy.

Hmm. If you say so. I've already said my peace above.

Ok? That's it! Let's get lynching people.

[Charlie]

EBWOP: 1 out of 9 quote tags broken. You can easily make out the first broken one.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna: I don't see it. How does your first question lead on to anything to do with widening the meta field? Was your original objection similar to mine or not?

I explained my thoughts in the last post I made. I don’t think I can be any clearer. If you don’t believe what I’m saying that’s your call. I’m not going to waste any more time on it.

Regarding Jack’s meta and his play this game – here are his three most recent completed games:

Quick and Dirty Mafia – he flipped Goon.
Gears of War Mafia– he won as a Serial Killer
Alternate Vote Mafia– he was engamed as an undisclosed Town role.

Take a look at his play in each game and decide which he most resembles. I’m leaning towards Mafia based on his lethargic, listless play in this game and Q&D Mafia.

If I'm lucky, that what will the scenario be? This is a WIFOM trap. You're suspicious for this!

You are missing the whole point of Sando’s statement. There would be no pressure on the person who hammered if the lynched person was Town. It’s not a WIFOM trap.

Stop right there. There is a flaw. I wanted to take a side, but in no way can you said I'm inclined to pick one based on YOUR assumptions. These are mine and only mine to make. You are putting words in my mouth and I can't highlight this enough so perhaps you are ever so bold.

My perspective is approaching the game from a logical, Town oriented perspective. I don’t see that in your thought process. Thus I’m asking you about it. That’s not putting words in your mouth. That’s trying to determine why you are playing in an illogical manner.

Oh well, what's done is done and I cannot defend against this point now.

Do you think stating that you can’t defend your action in this case mitigates suspicion?

@Charlie

– Don’t take this the wrong way, but is English your first language?

[Incognito]

I'm back. ChannelDelibird has requested replacement. I'm looking for one for him.

I'll check on activity in a second.

[Incognito]

Vote Count #7 of Day 1

Charlie (5) <-~ ChannelDelibird (being replaced), MagnaofIllusion, Sotty7, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack, Zachrulez, Zajnet, Charlie
Jack (1) <-~ imkingdavid
Zajnet (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz

12 living; 7 will do it.

Deadline:

Thursday, August 19th at 12 A.M. EST

---

-

Jack has been prodded.

[imkingdavid]

Well, I was just about to replace out since I really don't have time for this game. However, since CBD is already replacing out, I don't want to put us in a position of two replacements at the same time, especially three days before deadline.

Here's my excuse, take it or leave it: I am going to be moving into my college dorm on Tuesday and have been (and will be) busy packing and getting ready. Once I get there and get settled, I should have plenty of time to sit down and play the game.

So while I know I promised a post yesterday and this is all you've got from me since then, and while I will try to find time to post as often as I can over the next few days, don't expect a great deal of activity from me.

Here's something I would like to say though: I agree with MoI on how Jack has been playing. It may be tunnel vision, which I am trying to avoid, but currently he is the only player I really have a scum read on at this point. It seems that quite a few of you are bent on lynching Charlie. I'll take a look at him and see if I agree or disagree with that and go from there.

Replaced by vollkan. - Incog-mod

[Locke Lamora]

Charlie: so do you think Magna is mafia? It took me a while to decipher some of that post and I'm still not sure what the point of most of it is, other than to be obscure.

[Sotty7]

Charlie if this isn't your

normal

play style what is? Also, why experiment if it is going to adversely effect your play? It smells like an excuse to act scummy.

[Charlie]

You are missing the whole point of Sando’s statement.

There would be no pressure on the person who hammered if the lynched person was Town

. It’s not a WIFOM trap.

Why is this true?

My perspective is approaching the game from a logical, Town oriented perspective. I don’t see that in your thought process. Thus I’m asking you about it. That’s not putting words in your mouth. That’s trying to determine why you are playing in an illogical manner.

Each player has their own playstyle. What you perceive as illogical may not be to others who choose to think laterally. Really, I

can

see your thought process somewhat logical, but not Town orientated. For simple matters, I take the simple solution. Adding a little bit of extra thought in post goes a long way, but there is a time for just going for it.

Do you think stating that you can’t defend your action in this case mitigates suspicion?

Certainly not. You and anybody else are free to use said point against me, of which I offer no defense.

Yeah, English is my first language. Perhaps the last post demonstrated a very different way of thinking that it may be confusing, I apologize for that. But that's how it is.

Charlie if this isn't your

normal

play style what is? Also, why experiment if it is going to adversely effect your play? It smells like an excuse to act scummy.

1) My first two newbie games, 889 and 888 long since completed were "normal" for me. Unfortunately in both those games I was mafia, both lynched. My subsequent newbie game 919, in which I was VT, was relatively "normal" and I got lynched D2 (side note: farside22 was the mod). Later, as a VT in newbie game 934 I played differently by making inane comments, poking fun at others, making jokes and references to silly things... I made it to the D3 endgame (I lost it by making the wrong decision, but that's beside the point). So what I am doing now is...well, somewhat aggressive, as reflected in my voting. Next time maybe I should try to play like Jack!
2) Oh my goodness. I don't like this line of questioning, but the answer is already covered in 1).

[Charlie]

EBWOP: Sorry, I missed this one:

Charlie: so do you think Magna is mafia? It took me a while to decipher some of that post and I'm still not sure what the point of most of it is, other than to be obscure.

At this point in time, yes I believe that he is mafia. He continues to put press on the same matter without giving much room.. I would say he'd have a counter-point for every point I make. This seems too good to be true. Vote stays.

[Sando]

You are missing the whole point of Sando’s statement.

There would be no pressure on the person who hammered if the lynched person was Town

. It’s not a WIFOM trap.

Why is this true?

It's not, change that 'town' to 'scum' and you get the point.

[Zachrulez]

Magna: I don't see it. How does your first question lead on to anything to do with widening the meta field? Was your original objection similar to mine or not?

The above post diminishes my opinion of Zajnet further, if that was possible. Perhaps I'll put the issue in a different light; can anyone tell me why we shouldn't lynch him?

I actually prefer this lynch now.

Unvote: Vote: Zajnet

I still wouldn't mind Magna or Porochaz lynches at this point either, however with the lack of movement recently, I'm seeing contentment with the top wagons and it's bothering me a bit.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why is this true?

It’s not. As Sando has pointed out I garbled the post. It should have read “There would be no pressure on the person who hammered if the lynched person was

Scum

”

That said you haven’t addressed the point Sando originally made - that your presentation of the vote on my indicated that you believed I was Town.

Really, I can see your thought process somewhat logical, but not Town orientated. For simple matters, I take the simple solution. Adding a little bit of extra thought in post goes a long way, but there is a time for just going for it.

Please elaborate on why my thought process is ‘not Town oriented’.

At this point in time, yes I believe that he is mafia. He continues to put press on the same matter without giving much room.. I would say he'd have a counter-point for every point I make. This seems too good to be true. Vote stays.

So you think it is scummy to inquire, press, or otherwise interrogate a player I think is scum? If so we have a differing opinion on what constitutes scummy play. If I feel you are making points that aren’t valid I’m going to question / respond to them.

As the day is coming to a close I think Charlie is honestly the best lynch. I also think that Zaj, Jack, Zach, and CDB’s replacement need more scrutiny Day 2.

@Zach, Poro and IKD

– Please share your thoughts on Charlie.

[Zachrulez]

My post in iso 14 pretty much sums up my thoughts on Charlie.

Replaced by jasonT1981. - Incog-mod

[Incognito]

Ythan replaces ChannelDelibird effective immediately. Thanks, Ythan.

Deadline will remain the same.

[Ythan]

Hi.

[Locke Lamora]

Hi Ythan. Who's scum?

[Sotty7]

Hi.

Why are we plodding along people? Where are you all? This game is like pulling teeth.

Unvote, Vote:Zach

Lurking: CHECK
Not being proactive: CHECK
Coasting: CHECK
Hypocritical: CHECK

You're scummy as all hell right now. Tell me why you think we should lynch Zajnet over you. The pair of you have added hardly anything to this thread, you may as well be voting for yourself.

[Sotty7]

Hi Locke.

Will you wagon Zach with me?

[Locke Lamora]

Hmmm. Maybe. I think it might get the game going more than a Zajnet wagon, which I don't think has been greatly reinforced by Poro and Zach hopping on. Why would you rather lynch Zach over Zajnet if you think they've both contributed as much as each other?

[Sotty7]

Because like I said earlier I have seen Zajenet play this way and flip town. Ideally we want him replaced. Also Zach is playing more and more to his scum meta and even though we are closing in on deadline I can't sit back and watch him play like this anymore.

Wagon him with me. If it doesn't take off you can go back to your Zaj wagon and I'll go back to Charlie. Right now I want to lynch either Zach or Charlie but I also want an active town. Lets make some magic happen here.