Ladies Night -- Game Over

[Haylen]

/confirm.

Special hi to camn and DGB. And to Sucrose. And to the mod and Apok who don't even know they know me. Awesome sausage!

[Haylen]

Holy sugar! I forgot Uk O_O Hiiiiii, FL.

[Haylen]

Well, camn found me and DGB. He already knew Apok. I presume you, Ojenan and Sucrose pre inned. That's 7 out of 15 already. (Don't ask me to do the maths.)

I now have the irresistable urge to go and read the horror that was Newbie 786. ~_~

[Haylen]

Hoopla...I calculated my win rate yesterday and found I have a 26.1% win rate as town, 92.9% win rate as scum and a 75% win rate as third party. Do the calculations show I'm easy to catch as scum? ~_~

As for being a nuisance, I play to have fun rather than play to win.

Yes. I did take offence.

I would give you a real insight into my playstyle, but I'd rather not give people clues as to why everything I do in a game is not random.

Let's get this started:

Vote Haylen

Claim: Vanilla townie Nexus Banana Madscientist Frog Supersaint one shot role cop mason with camn.

[Haylen]

Thank you for proving to me you're more valuable as scum than town. Why do you think this is? Do you think you're a poor scumhunter or lazy as town?

I suck as town. I've been trying to improve for over a year but I'm just stuck :/ I've memorised every mafia theory page there is on the wiki and in MD, studied it over and over again but for some reason I can't put it into practise very well. So I create my own little ways of finding out whether or somebody is scum but because people don't understand why I do something, my arguments don't hold very much stance.

I'll give you a cookie if you can work out what the self-voting and claiming is about. I'd be thankful if you don't tell what it is though. It's something that's worked for me before though, on multiple occassions.

I've tried taking a very aggressive approach to mafia as shown in Newbie 848. I attacked VRK over a period of about 5 game days based entirely on gut, tunnelled on him. Then Charter joined the game and I tried a more logical approach. Logic told me Charter was scum, gut told me VRK was scum. So I voted Charter in lylo and it turned out I should've listened to my gut. Because for all of the tunnelling and attacking I did on Vel, it wasn't for nothing.

[Haylen]

Hoopla...I calculated my win rate yesterday and found I have a 26.1% win rate as town, 92.9% win rate as scum and a 75% win rate as third party. Do the calculations show I'm easy to catch as scum? ~_~

Looking at your wiki, I count your mafia/werewolf record as 9/4 which is about 69%. You're back at 6/4 if you remove newbie games, too. Is your wiki up-to-date or did I just count wrong? If you're exaggerating or including games from somewhere else, why?

I included newbie games. I counted the game I won as scum on my Alexithymia alt. If that's not right, then my statistics are wrong, which wouldn't surprise me (I failed my statistics course last year having only got 21% >_> My maths caused me to fail my entire course last year as all of the coursework included it.), I got Jordan to check though and he said I was right

[Haylen]

i counted the ones I won, divided them by the number I played and multiplied them by 100. Except I can't really divide properly. I've got Dyscalculia (maths dyslexia). Also, I'm thinking you didn't include the game where I was Outsider (Mind Screw 4). Considering me and Cobalt had to kill the town, I considered that as being a scumteam.

[Haylen]

I know you didn't include that last game because you only said you included my mafia and wolf games You said nothing about my games as Outsider.

I'm gonna be V/LA for Saturday only this weekend. Usually, I'm on V/LA all weekend. But it's mine and Jordan's engagement party this saturday and I got the weekend off work.

Noted

[Haylen]

Yes.

Do you believe that I believe you're patronising me?

[Haylen]

I just don't understand how you could mess up that equation. Can you explain Dyscalculia to me more, and how it affects you? (I'm not trying to be rude)

Well, what I actually have is a combination of Dyslexia, Dyspraxia and Dyscalculia - they overlap pretty badly with me. Dyslexia I have an intriguing version of because my spelling is generally perfect, it's just whether or not I get the correct word that's the problem. One might suggest using a spell check, but that's not going to work if the words spelt right. For example, I got penalised in my coursework because I wrote 'phonetic' rather than 'problematic'. My memory is absolutely shit. That's where the overlap with Dyscalculia comes in. If I need to transfer a number from a page to the calculator, there's an extremely high chance I'm going to write the wrong number. A lot of the time, this will show itself by me writing the number in backwards ie. 24 would become 42. One mistake like that could throw my whole coursework off synch. Having somebody read the number to me is much worse because I also have Auditory Processing Disorder which means my brain doesn't process things like it should.

To make this easier to understand, these are the symptoms of Dyscalculia and how they affect me:

* Poor understanding of the signs +, -, ÷ and x, or may confuse these mathematical symbols.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've used add rather than multiply and vice versa.

* Difficulty with addition, subtraction, multiplication and division or may find it difficult to understand the words "plus," "add," "add-together.

Can't do long multiplication or Division, my addition is generally fine, it's subtraction that confuses me the most but I can still just about do it but only when it's written down on paper and when I have the use of my fingers to count down on.

* Difficulty with times tables.

I can do my times tables up to 12x, if I'm given 13 x something, no matter how easy it is it'll still throw me.

* Poor mental arithmetic skills.

Ah, the days at school when my teachers and classmates would ridicule me because the highest I'd get in mental arithmetic tests was 2/20. No matter how hard I tried. Maybe they should've figured out there was a problem then.

* May have trouble even with a calculator due to difficulties in the process of feeding in variables.

I often press the wrong button when I'm doing something and don't realise it. As a result, I never trust calculators.

* May reverse or transpose numbers for example 63 for 36, or 785 for 875.

Already spoke about that. It's also a symptom of APD. I have both.

* Difficulty with conceptualizing time and judging the passing of time.

Anyone ever wonder why I quickhammer, thinking the deadline is in about 5 minutes? It's because of this.

* Difficulty with everyday tasks like checking change.

To make it worse, I work on the tills in a shop.

* Difficulty keeping score during games.

The reason I don't play table tennis or badminton competitively. I find keeping track of vote counts difficult too because of this.

* Inability to comprehend financial planning or budgeting, sometimes even at a basic level, for example, estimating the cost of the items in a shopping basket or balancing a checkbook.

The reason why I accidentally spend £200 in 2 weeks and am short of cash very quickly after getting paid.

* Inability to grasp and remember mathematical concepts, rules, formulae, and sequences.

The only way I can grasp a mathematical concept is if it's put into some sort of ridiculous picture. Me and my friend in maths at school quickly found out that the only way I could do trig was by drawing a very screwed picture of an ice-cream and labelling the sides. Ironically, out of all the concepts I have managed to grasp, it's Standard Deviation and Simultaneous Equations.

* May have a poor sense of direction (i.e., north, south, east, and west), potentially even with a compass.

This one doesn't actually bother me. I'm fine in this area.

* May have difficulty mentally estimating the measurement of an object or distance (e.g., whether something is 10 or 20 feet away).

I have been known to be stuck by the side of the road for 15 minutes not knowing whether or not it's safe to cross.

------------

Btw, me arguing with people and taking offence is not a tell of alignment. It's a sign that I'm PMSing. >_> (Seriously. The first day of Day One in Ladies Mafia and my stomach is fucking killing me and silly little things make me want to cry...like this post )

[Haylen]

FFS. I'M NOT A FUCKING LIAR AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING. I GOT DIAGNOSED WITH ALL 4 OF THESE THINGS BACK IN JANUARY CAUSE THE SYSTEM HERE SUCKS.

WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT IT. I THINK I'M REALLY PISSED OFF.

[Haylen]

Okies. What's you're favourite type of bread? ^_^

[Haylen]

And there we go, I get pissed off again without actually reading into what Hoopla wrote.

My till is always correct at work because I take my time. Customers get pissy because I'm so slow and I don't have to do any calculations for it because the tills are computerated and they tell me how much change I'm supposed to give the customers - occassionally, I am out, but only when I'm rushing myself.

With my vote counts in newbie games, I read through the thread 3 times at least to make sure I haven't made a mistake. I know if I didn't do that, I'd have 4 or 5 people voting for the same person. The most classic mistake I make is putting the persons name by the person they're voting and forgetting to take it off of the last person they're voting.

Because I got diagnosed so late, I thought I was just thick and had to develop my own coping strategies. That's what I did here.

The reason why I got that equation wrong is because I counted wrong. When I counted, I saw my scum win rate to be 11/12 when written as a fraction.

Do I think you're picking on me? Yes. I always think people are picking on me. I can't get rid of the small part at the back of my mind that tells me over and over that everybody hates me and wants to kill me. Two weeks ago, I thought 2 people on IRC were coming to kill me because they hadn't been online for ages. My mind twists everything to make it seem to me as though when something happens, that person hates me. For example, Incognito took longer than 15 minutes to reply to the third message I sent last night, whereas with the first two messages I had a reply in 5 minutes. My brain told me that cause he hates me and that I should be dead.

It's nothing against you. It's against me.

[Haylen]

Hey Sotty, care to operationalise overreaction?

[Haylen]

Sure, it's game related. I'm trying to get into your head over what you're going to see as overreaction thats others might not see as overreacting and will merely see it as reaction.

[Haylen]

I'm using a scale like this:

X is no reaction at all. As in something that is said isn't replied to in any way.

Anything up to 5 is reasonable and justified. 6 onwards is definately overreacting.

1--
2--
3-- My reaction to Hoopla.
4--
5--
6--
7--
8--
9--
10--

[Haylen]

Sure, it's game related. I'm trying to get into your head over what you're going to see as overreaction thats others might not see as overreacting and will merely see it as reaction.

EDIT BY PREVIEW: What do you want me to judge Haylen? My opinion of your reaction to Hoop?

I would like to know where you feel my reaction falls on that scale.

[Haylen]

Hoopla, is 6 where you think my reaction is on the scale? I'd like Apok's one aswell if I may.

[Haylen]

I don't think the reaction rating is a waste of time. It allows for the preliminaries of scumhunting. I'd like to know what people think reacting and overreacting is and found a visual scale would work best for me *shrugs*

I think Hoopla's taking the piss out of my scales ._.

[Haylen]

Unvote Vote camn

Gut scum read this early in the game, Never before have I had. (Uhh...except in Utopia Mafia and then I caught 2 out of 3 scum on page 2 which amused me no end.)

I'll post later, when I feel more wanted.

[Haylen]

I was referring to Camn and Haylen.

Also, hilarity detected as I made the above comment before reading esurio's...interesting post . Well, OK, it's not interesting at all, it's just over speculation too early in the game with strong town intent.

Why are we saying I've said things I havent?

[Haylen]

We play mafia differently here, that's why it's advisable to play a newbie game or two first.

Anywho, any question you need answering, don't hesitate to ask ^_^ Haylen <3's Newbies :3

Oh, my, the carelessness is my amazing self getting confused for Haylen.

Didn't understand any of this sentence.

Slightly suspicious of Paws but have a current Newb-Town read on her. If she was an experienced MS player, I'd find it a lot more scummy.

Hoopla: I think if she was scum she wouldn't want to delibrately piss everyone off. But then again, that's WIFOM.

camn: I'm not getting the town camn feel I got in either of the Lovers game we played. I'm also not getting an SK feel from her either. Which would suggest it to be a scum read. Especially since she hasn't done her usual breadcrumb at the beginning of each game. Also loving that she didn't refute my claim of being masons with her - which to me is suspicious aswell. camn, if those you listed are going to gain a town victory, then why have you not used them yet? Buddying: can see potential buddying of DGB, although I can see more of an insulting thing going on at the moment with the degrading of myself and Eso. Votehopping: Again, not seeing it. Policy Voting: If you think I'm a liability to the town, then why didn't you vote for me? Lurkerhunting: Nope, still haven't seen it. Too attractive: Pretty sure this isn't going to help in this game. I wonder if you're still pissed at me for killing you off as Vig in mafia with quickness...

Could see a Hoopla/camn scum pair.

UncertainKitten: Neutral to Town read.

I would like to point out, girls, that this game my selfvote was for nothing. If anyone's interested in why I do it, it's to draw votes from people in order to analyse the wagon later on in the game. It's generally a correct analysis too. It's just a pity I never listen to this analysis as it has helped me find the last scum in games on numerous occassions. The fakeclaim: work it out for yourselves. Being argumentative: More reaction seeking than anything. And I got the reaction I wanted. From Hoopla. That's all anyone's getting from me. For now on that subject of why I'm not effing useless.

[Haylen]

It was me overstating my importance to the town .

Also, carelessness my dear Haylen

1 Mafia Godfather
2 Mafia Goons
VS
3 Town Power Roles (Randomly selected from the pool of: Cop, Doc, Nurse, Deputy, Mason, Vigilante, Jailkeeper, Roleblocker)
9 Vanilla Townies

There's no SK possibility.

No other issues with Haylen's post.

It's how I know my gut-pool isn't messed up ^_^ If I was getting a gut SK read, I'd know I was wrong somewhere along the lines.

[Haylen]

I'm not rolefishing, I'm just intrigued by your roleclaiming ways *shrugs*
I'm not surprised I didn't make the list with Hoopla and Ojanen. I'm a sucky player and I have no self-confidence, so why would anyone have confidence in me? I find it...frustrating. I came to the site with the goal of being the best and haven't succeeded in even being good. My town play is aweful so I'm never gonna be good there. My scum play has really gone downhill for some reason. That title I have under my name is on he assumption that I'm a good SK, yeah succeeded in failing that one. 3/4 games I won and yes, I'm really beating myself up about the last one. I don't deserve that title anymore. But I keep playing and hanging onto the little bit of hope I have that one day I will be good. You're one of, if not the, players I most respect on site. So, yes, I am mad that I didn't make the list, I'm angry at myself.

[Haylen]

@ Sotty - I apologise for not making it clearer. If Paws was an experienced player like yourself and was acting as she is, I would find it suspicious. I do not find it suspicious for a newbie to do this though. Thus I have a Newb-Town read. I wrote the first part of the sentence 'I am suscious of paws, but currently have a Newb-Town read' because I remember she was a newbie right at the comma. So I decided to leave what I had written and say if she was experienced I would find it bad.

PREVIEW EDIT
@ Sotty - I got asked a question and I answered it. I'm not worried about my site reputation, I'm worried about what I think of myself. FYI, I'm like this with everything, then when I am the best at something I still don't think I'm good enough for example, I cried after getting 100% in 3 exams because I still thought I could've done better and then demanded I retake said exams. Come to think about it...I'm effing mental :/

Also, I've said this in many many games. Nothing I say is an appeal to emotion. If it affects something, then they're the people who turn it into an appeal. What other people do with my words is nothing to do with me.

[Haylen]

Haylen. Null and annoying. Also grow up.

Cepi, if you've read the thread then you obv know what pisses me off, so why if the first thing you say blatantly something that is going to get a rise out of me? See, to the Hayleni-eye, that would suggest you're trying to get me to write another load of angry posts and fill up the thread. Oh and one thing. You don't know me. You can't judge me. You have no idea why I do or say or feel the things I do. I think if you don't realise that, then you're the one who needs to grow up tbqh.

We should probably lynch you just because you annoy me to the bones.

Good luck with that!

Why do you keep attacking camn for weak reasons

A lovely little thing called meta.

if you know you are not good at town?

I said I'm not good as town. I NEVER back down without a fight and I'm not about to stop scumhunting the way I can even if the rest of you hate me for it.

Why is Paws newb town?

Because she is playing how newb town's play and because I have had enough experience with newbies to know how they play as town?

DGB, can I have your underwear? I feel they may bring me good luck on the mafia playing field.

[Haylen]

ISO says my newb town read on Paws is wrong ._. I swear she posted more content than that :/

[Haylen]

So unladylike, FL

Looking back at everything i've said, all I can say is "wtf, Rena, wtf." I apologise for being a bit of a bitch the past few days, on top of pmsing, I've had an engagement party to plan - where my fiance's father may not be able to make it now, I've found out I might lose my flat next year cause my fiance didn't get into Uni, I'm not very well myself and I'm trying to look after my brother. Not to mention phone calls and death threats someone who hates me is making towards myself and my family. So yeh, that's why I've been a little bit emotional.

I stick by my camn read. I no longer have a newb-town read on Paws, it's Newb-neutral at best. I have a neutral-town read of FL at the moment. I don't have a clue what to make of Hoopla, but I can still see her and camn as a scumteam. Sotty is neutral-scum to me at the moment and that's primarily what has been said by other people and a gut read. I can't remember who else is in the game ^_^;

[Haylen]

Cauch: What question?

[Haylen]

I said it's gut really.

They seem to be bouncing off each other a lot.

I've grown some balls and I've had enough of the lack of contributing Paws is or plans on not making.

Unvote. Vote Paws

I GREW SOME BALLS.

Still got my eye on camn.

[Haylen]

Ojanen, pretty sure I said the gut thing with regards to a camn/Hoopla scumteam ~_~

[Haylen]

post later

[Haylen]

Her justification for her vote HERE is very very thin.

Hypocritical. If I remember correctly, you were using the same reasoning.

Also, her last couple posts.... short fillers.. especially THIS ONE, they seem like someone reminded her not to lurk.

I've been insanely busy the past week. I made that post in more than one game on that day. In fact, the day I made that post, I spent most of arguing with Universities and telling them their system sucks. Then after that, my Dad paid for me and Jordan to go out for a 3 course meal which was awesome. Then we went and played poker with Battle Mage and some other people, I lost but hey I got to the semi finals. I'm gonna stop now cause I get the feeling I'm going on and on.

Plus her early explosion is followed by a pretty neat style-correction... which looking back could be daytalk-influenced.

You wanted to vote me because you think I'm a mason?

Vote camn

[Haylen]

No...you insinuated that I'm a mason because you think I can day talk. And then you voted for me :/

[Haylen]

I can't Day Talk. Ok?

[Haylen]

I can't Day Talk. Ok?

Who is scum and why? Now.

I said this just now. camn for her post before and camn for yesterday.

[Haylen]

While im at it.

FoS Cepi

Obv not reading the thread properly. Since I voted camn the page before this one.

[Haylen]

Are you seriously suggesting that you don't remember that scum have daytalk

No. I'm telling you. That I didn't know scum could day talk. From the start. I didn't read the roles and I don't read the open Role PM's mods put up. It's not scummy. It's scummy that you're suggesting something that is WIFOM is scummy. Tl;Dr: You're scummy for doing that.

The absence of any countering town-tells

Oh for the love of. Seriously. Scumtells and towntells are basically trying to generalise to the wider population of mafia without taking into account Individual Differences. The only thing you can be almost sure with is Meta. Which takes the person themselves into account. Do you remember in that Mad Libs game which got abandonned? Weren't you on my wagon then? Because I wasn't showing any of those stupid towntells ect? Wasn't I town? Hey, even worse, I was right.

Since when did changes in emotion = scum?

[Haylen]

Yes.

And I'm not arguing about this. It'll just take us further off track, and will get us no where cause it's all WIFOM.

[Haylen]

For the love of. It's not scummy, it's WIFOM.

[Haylen]

I didn't read the those pages properly because i was insanely busy on those days.

V/LA on weekends.

[Haylen]

DGB gives me scum vibes. Gut based read. Hoopla confuses the hell out of me. Fenchurch and Chau I see as town.

[Haylen]

Dont hammer me until i've posted properly. I will be pissed.

[Haylen]

I must say that I like a Snow_Bunny lynch more than I do an Apok one. Most of her points on UK have been quite ridiculous. That being said, UK really needs to try camomile tea. Seriously, I've drinken like 9 cups today and I'm soooooooo chilled ouuuuut.

Yeah, I am still writing a massive case on camn. I saved it in my drafts section before I went to bed last night and I've been too busy today to finish it.

[Haylen]

My, aren't you a magnet for night kills...

This in her second post seems like she is sowing the seeds for a UK lynch on Day Two if she isn't night killed - which she obviously wouldn't be after this statement if SB was scum.

She seemed to tunnel quite a bit on camn in Day One, but the paranoid side of me suggests that this is bussing considering the points made against camn weren't very strong.

There are 6 post between those two, and in none of them she mentions me again. She feels I usually play like this, then suddenly, out of nothing, I'm the correct wagon. Hmmm...

Again, the 'Hmmm...' bit is like seed sowing. For a start, she doesn't take into consideration that a persons opinions can change drastically during a game and didn't even wait for UK to post the point that she was looking into before condemning her for this. To me, this seems like she is hiding something.

So, she rather lynch for the sake of lynching than waiting for the replacement? Something's not good in there.

This seems nitpicky. I don't recall UK ever saying that she wanted to lynch for the sake of lynching. I also believe that this post she made was an attempt to derail the camn wagon. It really looks as though earlier she was just bussing camn and now wants to hop off the wagon to try and lynch someone who isn't her scumbuddy.

Unfortunately I let myself get swept into it nonetheless.

I do however feel that this statement is very wishy washy. Translated in my brain it reads: 'Oh ooopsies, I lynched a townie, how bad of me.'

[Haylen]

How come?

[Haylen]

Fair point. I didn't take that into account.

FoS UK

For getting highly pissed off over one vote. It seems desperate.

Apok, you never addressed what I wrote to you before and I would like reasons as to why you want me lynched over everyone else. A comparison if you will.

[Haylen]

Pfft. She didn't even say she was writing a case >=( Learn from the master!

[Haylen]

Apok, did you not read my post on Snow_Bunny? I'm pretty sure there were some opinions in there. Also, what question of camn's have I not answered? Was it the one in her last post, when I haven't even posted after yet?

I am posting what I think of 781 in my post.

[Haylen]

Hehe. Hey, S_W, if you read that game and analyse it properly you'll see how I caught them all ^_^ Unfortunately, it's not something that works in all games, so I attack people primarily based on instinct in a lot of my games and in the majority of them I'm correct. On the subject of J-Fox in that game, he didn't give himself away like Budja and Tjoe did, but as his fiance I can read him like an open book. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Back to camn-post.

[Haylen]

S_B.
I.
Am.
Psychic.

*snigger*

[Haylen]

What's pissing me off about this game is it needs more testosterone -_- Very rarely do I get on with girls.

So I'm gonna start with this.
The wagon on me is ridiculous. It's for stupid reasons. Yeh, I haven't posted a lot of content because ive been V/LA. The sudden changes of emotion? F-off, I'm dealing with it. So what if I'm an emotional player.

Also, posting content is genuinely painful for me. -.-

@ camn (opinion of 381) - Those scenarios are completely different. For a start, you yourself didn't read the role PM's ect and didn't know the scum could Day Talk. That's not scummy. Obviously missing huge cases against players is. So that's a really bad comparison you're trying to set me up with. By the way, I can see exactly what you're trying to set up. You want me to say 'Not reading the rules isn't scummy, but not reading content is.' Then when I say they are, you would have strawmanned the hell out of it. I can see right through you.

camn

This just shows that we should lynch you. If this is the truth, you are nothing but a town liability.

Funny that you've never mentioned that in the games we've played together when you were town. You know exactly what my town play is like, and it's pretty obvious that you're trying to set up a lynch in this statement. In fact, you've never even tried to policy lynch me before - so why start now? What's different about this game that wasn't in the others?

Maybe even a little too hoopla-haylen-partners long. I see I am not the only one.

Says this, but never follows it up, in fact it reaks of distancing because she calls Hoopla town for the rest of the game and just completely forgets that she said that. To add to the matter, she also said that others have said the same which suggests to me that she was just following the opinions of the town which is scummy because it shows a desire to keep on the towns good side so she isn't lynched.

The rest of the holes I leave for the town to see, as I am on my iPod, and can't type like I like!

Witholding information from the town, this looks like to me. That's scummy because a town aligned player would want the town to know everything that they know (unless they're a PR).

Also, FTR... Let me lay out the camn-hater playbook for you all:

Buddying.
Votehopping.
Policy Voting
Lurkerhunting.
Too attractive.

This is also scummy because now that she has giving away people accuse her of when she's town, she can do what the heck she likes as scum and get away with it. What makes me doubly suspicious is that I've witnessed her do these as scum in other games.

---off topic---

@haylen

This winds me up. It makes me twitchy. Can anyone guess WHY it makes me twitchy? Because there's no space between the @ symbol and the name.
----------------

But I want you to know that if you ARE scum, I

will

catch you. You

will

hang. And you

will

not manage to mislynch me.

This seems a bit over the top for a camn-town to say. Particularly if it's a threat. Town players shouldn't go round threatening to lynch town players without posting evidence first :/ camn hadn't said anything to combat UK's posts against her and then decides to threaten her without giving a good reason.

Also.. I suggest everyone ISO Paws right now... then tell me how that is indicative of newbie-TOWN play?

Tell me. Did or did not, Paws flip town? And she was also a newbie. Thus she was newb-town? Was I not right until I allowed myself to be pressured into viewing Paws a non-newbie? Tell me. Why am I not wrong about you?

Wiggle room?!
"Wiggle room" is your case?

Hypocritical. It's not like any of your cases have been better. In fact, you've barely posted any. This doesn't equal camn-town to me. Especially seeing as you seem to be quite content in following DGB round like a sheep. Try writing your own opinions. Not doing so is scummy because it shows again that you're keeping information from the town.

Haylen, OTOH, = town.
She would buddy me as scum.

WIFOM. How can you be sure of this if you have never played against me with me as scum? As I recall I've always been VT in our games. (Correct me if I'm wrong btw). Also, what does OTOH mean. I'm actually more likely to buddy as town as demonstrated in my first game on site (with Talitha, who was scum), with ZachRulez in Patricks Newbie Game not sure of the number, but Zach was scum there too. I buddied you back in C3t1ns where you were SK. If you want more examples I'm sure I could provide them. It's a town tactic of mine, now I've worked out that the people who buddy me and cause me to buddy back are scum. Cause that's what I do, I buddy back if someone's buddying me, then I try to get them lynched. This makes me a bit of an ass in my opinion, but in the majority of cases where I've done it, I've been correct. Hmm...I'm gonna go ask Zach if he's still pissed off about that...apparently the memory is annoying which makes me giggle especially since it was my first town victory.

In order to find scum, you have to identify things that people do or say when they are scum.. that they DON'T do or say as town!

And yet there is an inconsistancy with what camn says here:

She will then top it off with a meta-argument of what I WOULD HAVE done as town in other games, and conclude that I am scum.

In that same post camn implies that meta=crap case and yet is advocating it in the first quote. This is scummy because a) it looks like teaching a bad method that camn doesn't believe herself works, b) it's completely backtracking on what she had previously said.

She says I'm scum and then gives no reason to back it up AGAIN. I'm beginning to see a pattern here: I don't believe that at any point in this game that camn will give any particularly strong reasons for voting somebody unless it's a policy lynch.

Your thoughts on Haylen? Who almost certainly can daytalk?

Don't like this. It's sowing the seeds again with DGB's analysis and opinions of me.

In her next post, she does a complete turn around. She has mentioned that she is certain that I'm scum and then votes for Apok. I've noticed that she seems to back off me whenever I'm close to being lynched. This indicates to me that she is attempting to get me to lylo so she can finally make some sort of case on me there, everyone will believe her cause she's influencial. Then I'll get lynched and we'll lose. -_-

Oooh, Yay! Time for some meta. Mine this time.

Like Apok told you to take it down a notch.

You know full well from past experience that there are very few people on site who I will listen to if they request I do anything. Having only played with Apok once and quite briefly, I might add, she is not one of them.

In that same post, If camn really wants to know why my behaviour changed so drastically. Here you go: That day, I received a PM from Flay basically calling me an attention seeking brat. That pissed me off quite a bit. I raged for a while, sending a well worded PM back. Then I got thinking, what if I really did seem like an attention seeker when I blow up in games. What if my emotions are what really cause me to be a bad player, because I can't let go of thing once I start raging.

Would you like to contest this?

Wow.
THat is, without exception, exactly my scumlist right now.
Almost in that exact order, too. With cepi where I am.

Here, have another example of camn not thinking for herself.

---------------

Just as an add on, Ojanen is given me tingly feelings. I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad thing yet, but I'm going to keep my eyes peeled.

[Haylen]

Thank you. No one ever said that to me before. =)

I acknowledge that I skimmed the game and I also acknowledge that it was bad play of me to do so. My sincere apologies to everyone who is reading the game thoroughly.

[Haylen]

Hayl's Scumlist. She is keeping her town reads hidden.

camn
cepi
Snow_Bunny/DGB

Cepi, if you think that's one of the worst cases you've seen then you obviously haven't been playing on MS for very long.

[Haylen]

camn
ipod broken
ipod make is apple

CAMN CLAIMED APPLE!

[Haylen]

Seemed fake and daytalk induced.

[Haylen]

Can we get a blunt claim now? Cause I'm still sure you're a Mafia Apple. -_-

[Haylen]

so, how do i improve? :/

[Haylen]

Tajo, it's because you know I had reasons for everything I did, nothing I do in mafia is pointless it just might seems so at the time ^_^

Thank's camn, you made my day!