NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Wickedestjr]

/confirm

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Kise

1. Random voted hiphop, then unvoted before hiphop even aknowledged the vote and doesn't random vote again.
2. Encourages hiphop to selfvote.
3. Asks for reasons to bandwagon Wraith in the RVS. Why does there need to be a reason?

[Wickedestjr]

Why would you want UA to self vote?

[Wickedestjr]

You're quite the dim-witted one, aren't you?

Either that, or you're one who doesn't back his thoughts up with fact.

Go look up a few of UA's previous games. I'll wait. Seriously!

In the meantime, let's take a moment to look over your little false dilemma a bit. First of all, it would seem rather a dim strategy to decide (as scum) to try and start a bandwagon

on themselves

first thing on D1. Second, there are numerous other possibilities - the one that is provably true here is that UA

always

self-votes first thing, and people quite laughably

always

join along. The start-of-game UA bandwagon is like tradition or something.

Not voteworthy?

Can we not demarcate the game into "random vote stage" and "serious stage" and instead focus on actually playing from the start? I hate having to sift through a bunch of needless crap just because someone thought that there was a magic point at which things suddenly began to matter.

I don't see what this has to do with the points I brought up.

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: danakillsu

I still want a response from Kise though.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote.

Okay, first of all, this thread is very active. It's not that hard to keep up with but it has a lot of useless walls of text. Most of these walls of text (if not all of them) are useless because they are all repeating points that have already been brought up regarding danakillsu and Furcolow. We don't need every player explaining why each post from dana and Furcolow is scummy.

I think that both Danakillsu and Furcolow are both town. Furcolow in particular, because I get the impression that he's trying to impress the town which is a strong town tell imo. The two main things that give me this impression are his bad metaphors + his confidence in his reads. Danakillsu also looks like town, because of his reaction to the attack from Furcolow. I agree that their posts are illogical, but I disagree that they are scum.

My thoughts on some of the other players in the game:

JDodge:

Looked townish but he brought up good points against danakillsu and didn't actually vote danakillsu until a bandwagon started on him. I find that a bit suspicious.

IGMEOY

Hiphop:

He suggested random lynching day 1 and I don't know that I believe he actually thinks it's a good strategy. We'll basically be at square one again tomorrow if we follow his strategy.

IGMEOY

Wraith:

His vote for Danakillsu looks opportunistic. I'm surprised he didn't have anything to say about Furcolow also.

IGMEOY

Mysterio:

First he votes JDodge for being so confident in his read on Danakillsu, but then later decides the case against Danakillsu was good (the case consisted of things that had happened before Mysterio voted JDodge). He looks like opportunistic scum. If the case against Danakillsu was really that good, then why did he vote JDodge after it happened before he eventually switched to Dana?

Vote: Mysterio

Singersigner:

His most recent post is full of parroting.

FoS: singersigner

Benmage:

My gut is telling me he might not be town, but I'll have to see his next few posts before I get a better read.

IGMEOY

Bunny Lover:

If he was town, I would expect him to have some kind of opinion regarding the Dana vs. Furcolow debate. Surprised he doesn't have anything to comment on.

FoS: Bunny Lover

Reck:

Asked Shanba for his reads without even giving his. I'm anxious to here more from him.

IGMEOY

UltimaAvalon:

He's been very active but his posts have consisted of questions to other players and him defending his PoV, but I don't think he has given any of his actual thoughts on the game yet from skimming him in iso. He has avoided taking any stances.

FoS: UltimaAvalon

I am against the idea of random lynching right now. I think we should use all the time we have.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't like flinter's points against Xite.

UltimaAvalon:

He's been very active but his posts have consisted of questions to other players and him defending his PoV, but I don't think he has given any of his actual thoughts on the game yet from skimming him in iso. He has avoided taking any stances.

FoS: UltimaAvalon

I don't necessarily have a stance. I spent most of my time yesterday reacting to the explosion of posts, tying to stop bullshit before it could get started (JDodge), and dealing with terribad players (Dana, Frank) to the point where I eventually said fuck it and left to play Torchlight.

And the reason I still have no real stance between who's Scum or Town is because it's only been a day since the game started, last I checked 1/4 of the players still haven't checked in past the confirmation stage, and it's really hard to not tunnel on the most prolific players of the game, which most seem to be doing. Someone said we need to utilize all the time we have and they are absolutely right. With 24 players, we have a lot of scum to catch, and a lot of time to do it.

Just because we have a lot of time to catch scum doesn't mean we should wait a few days before giving our reads. In addition, I'm not asking you to tell us who all the scum are and give cases against all of them, but I would like some opinions. We also don't need all the players to be around for you to be able to give us your thoughts. Lastly, if you actually don't have any reads, then you're not really making any effort to get any.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not impressed with ConfidAnon's post. Lots of fluff in it and he doesn't even vote.

Also, Mysterio could use some more votes.

[Wickedestjr]

By "lots of fluff", I meant that I felt a large part of the post was unhelpful. The first three sentences are you listing points you

don't

agree with. The sentence after that you point out something headdesk worthy. The only part of that post that is actually helpful is your points regarding Wraith and Danakillsu explaining why they may be connected. Speaking of which, you see a connection between the two based on Wraith's posts yet vote danakillsu. And you didn't even mention why you found danakillsu scummy in your first post.

FoS: ConfidAnon

[Wickedestjr]

Mod:

I believe I still have my vote on Mysterio.

Missed it, my bad.

[Wickedestjr]

Whatever. The vote still looks opportunistic and their is still a contradiction concerning the earlier points against danakillsu. I'll explain how you contradicted yourself:

Danakillsu made this post and this post. JDodge called danakillsu scum for those posts.

You vote for JDodge here for being so sure of himself.

Furcolow arrives and votes Danakillsu because of those posts that he wrote.

You arrive and say this:

@dana, what specifically has Frank done to make you think he is scum? So far, I've only gathered an OMGUS vote and you complaining that he might be making a weak case against you

(hint: it's not weak)

. These are not scum tells, that is simply you pissed off at the notion that someone wants you lynched.

Also, I still don't understand how anyone can be so sure of a read this early in the game. It could very well be possible that dana is just playing terribly, you can't know for sure. To act as if it's an open and shut case and we should lynch a few pages after the game started is ridiculous. Both JDodge and now Frank are guilty of this.

In the bolded portion of this post you say that Furcolow's case against Danakillsu wasn't weak. So, for some reason you found it strange for JDodge to be so certain that Danakillsu was scum based on those posts, yet you agreed with Furcolow's case which was also based on those two posts and didn't have a problem with him being so certain. There's the contradiction.

[Wickedestjr]

@Mysterio - Okay. Makes sense.

Unvote.

1: Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
2: I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it without voting anyone makes me think you're looking for a reaction

1: Umm...what?
2: First of all, I have voted. I voted Mysterio. Second of all, is there a problem with me looking for reactions? What is the point of this statement?

Xite, do you think flinter's attack against you is suspicious?

Confirm Vote: danakillsu

You were already voting danakillsu. He is now at L-1.

Dana is now at L-1.

flinter's beginning to raise my suspicions. First the bad points against Xite and now he has completely ignored Mysterio's defense of my point against him. It's like either he wants to sit back and watch me decide the next move or he isn't paying attention to the person he's voting for.

I'm looking for a place to switch my vote to.

[Wickedestjr]

I still think Mysterio's vote for dana was opportunistic, but the contradiction is no longer there imo.

Vote: BunnyLover

. Probably my top suspect at the moment now.

[Wickedestjr]

Fair enough. I like my vote for Bunny Lover though. This isn't the first time I have seen a player say that they have nothing to comment on, but this is page 11, so there's really no excuse. I'm also just shocked that she doesn't have anything to say about Dana or Furcolow.

[Wickedestjr]

Fair enough. I like my vote for Bunny Lover though. This isn't the first time I have seen a player say that they have nothing to comment on, but this is page 11, so there's really no excuse. I'm also just shocked that she doesn't have anything to say about Dana or Furcolow.

He . And I have commented on their agurment, saying it gave me a headache, because honestly I just found it dumb.

Actually, you said "You all give me a headache". You have yet to give your feelings on anybody.

But why only focus on those two? There is several people who have commented on other people play style, but it seem everyone who confronts me always ask why I haven't commented on them two :<.

Their debate is the main topic of discussion imo, and I figured any townie had to have some opinion regarding them.

Honestly neither of those two people seem scum to me, thats my opinion on them.

Why couldn't you have said this before?

Now I predict about 7 people are going to attack me because I said that. If I have something to say/comment on/defend/attack or w/e I will post.

This indicates to me that the reason you weren't giving reads in the first place was because you were afraid of what people would think.

Out of 24 people, I'm more then sure not all of them have posted, I am confident to say at least 15 people have posted out of 24, but yes lets focus on the guy who is posting, just not anything that is worth wild.

If all the people that hadn't posted their opinions yet waited for everybody else to show up and post their opinions then none of them would. You shouldn't wait for the others to begin posting their opinions because you haven't either. Why do they need to post their opinions first? Also, this is a terrible excuse.

[Wickedestjr]

I still believe that Danakillsu is town. The only thing I have a problem with is that the breadcrumb was made after he got seven votes. Dana, why did you wait until after you got many votes to breadcrumb your role?

[Wickedestjr]

@ Wick: I could have sworn I did say that neither seem townie before when I was confronted the first time, but I probably implied it :<.

I thought you were saying that you thought they both seemed townish?

And no, I was just stating that people would start attacking to show how some people player style were which are to pressure and tunnel on the smallest thing.

What?

And the last thing, that wasn't what I was trying to say. I was saying that I don't see why I am getting confronted for "lurking" when their are several more people who haven't posted and yet no one has called them out for "lurking".

Do you find the players accusing you of lurking to be suspicious?

[Wickedestjr]

Dana, what in your opinion is the purpose of a breadcrumb?

[Wickedestjr]

ok reading back it looks like the bandwagon on the claimed cop is not very good one, now of course he could be lying. on day 1 large games I usually go for the inactives or something that strikes me as odd.

and Kise's posts have seemed like he is just trying to post to not go inactive but not contributing anything worthwhile and trying to stay under the radar

This is a really bad post. It is basically a bunch of words that say nothing at all.

Do we really honestly need the iso's? Why not comment on the game as a whole rather than comment on a person a day as they aren't very interesting.

QFT. Also, we are three RL days into the game. Can this wait until we have more information to work with?

@post 304 - Another useless post from Robbnva.

38: doesn't believe cop claim

1: Furc's been single-mindedly focused on dana and UA pretty much the entire game, and almost all of his posts are attacks on them or restatements of his attacks. However, his cases against dana were far better than dana's cases against him. I want to see how he reacts to the cop claim and bandwagon falling apart.

2: Also, just because I believe the claim for now doesn'tmean my suspicions are dropped. That was some of the worst play as a cop I've seen.

1: Furcolow did react to dana's cop claim. You even include in the list of his posts. I've even bolded it.

2: So, you believe his cop claim, but also suspect him to be scum. How can you believe both?

At the moment, my top suspect is Frank. I'll admit it could be because several of his attacks were against me, however, the majority of them sounded like they were coming from a raving lunatic, and left me with the impression he was Scum at worst, and anti-town at best. After the initial re-read, I've decided that I'm never going to read anything before Page 7 again. I also noticed a few players gave me mixed signals, and that will be investigated after lunch.

Then why not vote him? It must be better than your current vote which is on yourself. Unless you are scum of course.

1: Some people like to pressure and attack other for the smallest detail was what I was saying in the second. 2: Well of course I would find anyone who is suspicious and accusing me of stuff suspicious.

1: So basically you are admitting that you aren't giving your reads because you don't want to get attacked.

2: I'm attacking you. Why have you been claiming that you have no opinions yet?

On Singersinger: yeah, that was parroting. Do you have any other comment than that?
On Benmage: I don't do gut
On Bunnylover: I keep going back and forth on this guy. One moment I think he is newb Scum that is having a hard time faking Town. Next moment I think he is newb Town that doesn't even know how to scumhunt. And then back.
On UA: I don't remember much about his play other than him getting involved in that whole huge argument to nowhere.

Regarding Singersigner: Nope. Is there something else I should have commented on?
Regarding Benmage: Expect a lot of it from me.
Regarding Bunnylover: Well, he has 'Mafia Scum' under his name so he should have enough experience to know what kind of scumtells he needs to be looking for and should be capable of having some reads 11 pages into the game.
Regarding UA: Well, he waited until page 12 to give his first game relevant opinion on a player, but still seems to be compfortable having his vote on himself.


Also, woah! Fourteen posts in the last 20 minutes. I'll get to those in a different post.

[Wickedestjr]

I do not believe it whatsoever. I feel that dana is too simpleminded to even come up with that idea, or breadcrumb a good breadcrumb. I feel like that his scum team came up with that idea as a collective, or someone did and told him. Can scum talk right now? If they can't, I'm willing to back off at this point, though I see reasons we should still lynch him.

This insult is really uncalled for. You have proved nothing.

I am not going to vote him, as I think he's voting me, and

I don't want to OMGUS

, but I'm definitely going to FoS: Xite.

:O

Furcolow, as others have stated, you shouldn't be basing every single one of your reads off the assumption that dana is scum. Dana is probably town and you need to stop tunneling.

he has no chance of using his role whatsoever
if he doesnt die, and there's no protection, he's scum
if he actually is a cop,

they will stack their kills on him

therefore, if he is a cop, he won't ever be able to investigate at all, as he's going to die
by lynching him, we are protecting our other power roles from being lynched

I can link you to several games in which a cop claimed and survived the night after. One of which, a newbie game, the cop claimed day 1, the scum didn't have a roleblocker, and they kept the cop alive two nights until he was lynched for what I recall was because he was kept alive so long. Secondly, if there

is

a roleblocker this is a good reason to keep Dana alive. This is no good reason to lynch him. Also, some doctors protect against all kills. Also, the bolded is a slip. How do you know there are multiple groups in this game? I thought you were town, but you seem to be using any bad argument you can to try and get dana lynched.

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

You think hiphop is town?

vote Frank

hiphop has started being useful, although his last ninja post is not good.

I dislike this vote switch. hiphop hasn't posted anything this page aside from defending himself and explaining why lynching the cop is bad. Is that really useful enough for you? I find it hard to believe you are actually satisfied.

[Wickedestjr]

Porochaz, you voted him for not contributing. The points he defended against weren't points you listed as reasons for voting him. Also, he still hasn't contributed hardly any, so your unvote indicates to me that you don't really care.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked:

1. When I noticed that I added "and the bandwagon falling apart" to the sentence. As you can see, he's continuing to push for the lynch.

2. Just because he's made a claim and I believe it (for now) doesn't mean he isn't lying. Like I said, that was some terrible cop play and a flimsy breadcrumb, but I assume that scum aren't evil masterminds that plant the seeds of future plots early on (like breadcrumbs), I assume that they improvise as they go. If he continues his scummy play, While I believe he is town for now, I'm keeping my eye on him.

1. "and the bandwagon falling apart" addition to your sentence doesn't change anything. Furcolow already did react.
2. Okay.

Im not really getting your point. I voted him for not contributing and whilst he hasn't produced anything new at least he has produced a defence, its not much but even then I changed my vote to Frank because since my vote, Frank has become a better candidate. I still care about the hiphop case, just not as much as I care for Frank.

It still doesn't make much sense to me. hiphop defended against another players point doesn't contribute despite you voting him for contributing, and you switch your vote. Honestly I think the only reason you switched was because you felt the attention shifting from him to Furcolow.

Porochaz hasn't contributed at all this game in comparison to me, so he is a much better lynch than myself.

I just skimmed Porochaz in iso, and while he has contributed, he hasn't given any of his reads despite being one of the most active in the game. Also he has been taking part in all the popular bandwagons.

Unvote. Vote: Porochaz.

The purpose is showing that you knew what you would claim beforehand, leaving three possibilities.

When should you breadcrumb in your opinion?

Damn it, there is only a 1/24 chance we hit scum today.

Why?

[Wickedestjr]

If there are more, I can see a group of 3 masons (confirmed or unconfirmed, but more than likely all town) and/or 1 town RBer

It is likely that if there is a mason group in this game, it only has two people in it. I don't think I've ever seen a larger mason group before and my last 24 player game I was a mason and had only one partner.

but I am willing to bet that it is a single scumgroup of 7.

:O I seriously doubt this. Town would have a very hard time winning a game like this even with power roles.

right now I am sticking with my vote on Kise, but I think the interaction earlier between Jdodge and Benmage was quite a neat exchange, Benmage is someone I am gonna keep my eye on for a while.

I don't recall you actually voting for Kise.

idk, I don't get why Wraith is pushing us to vig Frank so much, makes Frank look scummy and makes Wraith looks scum even after flipping Frank.

Why does that make Furcolow look scummy?

I don't think hiphop is being random...

First of all, this only responds to one of the points I brought up. Secondly, how could you have taken hiphop's vote seriously when it was the first post after the game began?

wickedestjr - scum with nhammen and bunnylover possibly

Why am I scum? Also, why are you pairing me with the person I had just been voting?

Robnnva - Seems like scum to me.

Robnnva feels like a townie to me, but he hasn't posted like a townie should.

???

While I agree that he could be seen as more than just null, I do not agree with the above quote. Do you mean all the two popular wagons? Both with many legitimate reasons for a vote? And the second one starting after the first claimed cop?
How about some other reasons?

I don't have any other reasons. The vote for Furcolow from Porochaz looked very opportunistic in particular because he had no reason to unvote hiphop as I have already explained.

[Wickedestjr]

Well lets see, I thought dana was scum up until the cop claim, then I decided to vote bunny for activelurking, then shanba showed me hiphop, I changed my vote, both these previous two votes were mainly pressure votes, as I said before, the Lynch All Lurkers mentality is a stupid one. Then Frank made a comment which pushed him above both hiphop and bunny accordingly so I changed my vote, I was one of the first on both wagons and I explained both votes. (iso 7 for dana and 28, 30-31 for frank). As for my "reads" generally my vote is a good indication of that.

Two of your votes you say were pressure votes. The other two were both on the two main bandwagons of this game. So, the only reads you've given and the only votes you've cast out of suspicion were on the two most popular candidates. That is opportunism.

I already pretty much answered that. You should breadcrumb when you're town who wants to make his claim seem less like a scum fakeclaim or when you're scum who wants to make his claim seem less like a fakeclaim. It doesn't help you a ton, but it does help you some.

This doesn't answer my question. I'm asking for a specific answer. At what points in the game do you thinking are the best times to breadcrumb.

Now we have a vote on Porochaz by wickedestjr for the same weak reason he voted me,

This is not true.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickid, what does that make me? I FoS'd Dana, but didn't vote him, and I'm on the frank wagon.
There are many who were on both wagons IIRC

I believed that Porochaz switched to the Furcolow bandwagon only because he wanted to be on the bandwagon.

Porochaz, I'm still not getting why you unvoted hiphop. Also, you are right, dana and Frank didn't have bandwagons, but Frank

was

getting lots of attention.

@ Wickedest
I'm not so awesome at Mafia Theory that I actually know what point in the game is the best time to breadcrumb at. Why are you asking me all these questions about breadcrumbs? I'm doing it because I've seen others do it and people (including me) have believed their claims. I know some of the reasons for that, but not all. Maybe you should just enlighten us if there's something you know and we don't.

I was trying to figure out what the town motivation was for breadcrumbing after you got seven votes. Breadcrumbs are useless when you have lots of attention.

You called my vote on dana opportunistic and voted for me, and now you're calling Porochaz's vote on Frank opportunistic and you're voting for him. In both cases, you've avoided voting on the two main wagons and are now using votes on those same wagons as a scum tell. What this looks like to me is a deliberate attempt to manufacture scum tells by using whatever wagon pops up. I have a feeling if the Frank wagon dies and some other wagon pops up, you'll vote someone else for being "opportunistic". This is called fake scumhunting.

I voted Porochaz mostly for his unvote for hiphop.

Is there a reason everyone is totally ignoring my last post? I demand attention, dammit!

I think your points against hiphop were good ones. I might put my vote there.

I'm caught up except for page 21. It looks like a pretty ugly page. Reading it now.

[Wickedestjr]

Yeah, UA seems to have been sliding by in the early game. Except why would he get involved in that huge argument if he was just trying to slide by.

I don't get the impression that he intended to get in the argument. It seems to me that he just gave his opinion and JDodge continued questioning him on it.

Hmmm... so you think Poro is opportunistically joining the furc wagon as it grows? Or distancing from a buddy? Or something else?

Answered in a later post: opportunistic.

It could be both opportunism and distancing from a buddy.

OK, dispute this fact: As scum I do nothing more than simply make one liners
and I'm not doing that this game
so therefore I am not scum

I thought you said you were really good at scum. You consider posting one liners to be a good strategy as scum?

I'll tell you why - There are a ton of scum on it because I'm suspicious of them.

It's not that they jumped on your bandwagon because you called them scum. They jumped on your bandwagon, and then you called them scum. Or at least that's what I remember.

I didn't bring up multiple scum groups, learn to read. I said that they should have multiple kills in the night if this is balanced properly.

Since when does one scumgroup have multiple kills?

@UA: THe breadccrumb I spotted was Xite's. I don't know why he's claiming at this point, but it's null-tell IMO. He could be scum trying to set up a future believable claim like Dana did, or he could be genuinely town. Either way, I don't think it should affect anyone's reads on him much.

Why in the world would you say that somebody breadcrumbed their role if not everybody knew?

If you don't lynch me, I'll try to change.

How? Also, why not change now?

[Wickedestjr]

I could support a Furcolow lynch. There are several good reasons to lynch him:

*Recently his posting in the last few pages has looked very bad.
*He is an annoying distraction imo.
*His lynch will provide a lot of information.
*He's claimed to be a Vanilla Townie and bandwagoning somebody else to a claim might not be a good idea today.

...However, I am not ready to end the day yet. Also, I think Wraith is town. I don't want to lynch him.

[Wickedestjr]

My town read of Wraith revolves around gut mostly.

Anyways, at this point I'm just waiting for the ====[ ]

Without some slots not even posting anything?

So let me get this straight. You would possibly want to lynch me on the fact that someone else that is not proven scum tried to defend me. Now if you said after robb flips scum then hiphop is next is fine with me. But you came right out and said you would possibly want to lynch hiphop over frank, for something someone else did. What? How does that make sense? Your read on me is totally based off what robb flips, yet you come in with the bogus line that you may want to lynch me first. Truly you are stretching. Go find a better case.

You seem to be forgetting that Orochi doesn't have his vote on you.

I think that Furcolow either needs to stop posting or post something other than OMGUS votes and whining about the bandwagon being on himself. Ya know, maybe do some scumhunting? If you're town, you have good reason to scumhunt even if you think you're about to get lynched. Your posts the last dozen pages or so have been useless and are making this thread longer than it needs to be.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay. DavidParker, why in the world did you claim your role? That could quite possibly be the worst possible thing you could do. Having multiple cops in a game is not unusual at all. Especially one of this size.

Here is a game with two trackers.
Here is a game that I think had two cops in it.
Here is a game with 3 cops. (This game had a sane, insane, and naive cop.)
Here is a mini game with two cops.

I need to think about this claim a little bit. I would like if DavidParker would explain himself a bit more.

[Wickedestjr]

"nhammen, Mafia Goon" suggests that there is only one group. Probably an SK or vig out there as well. (I'm pretty sure it's SK though. I don't know who would've vigkilled nhammen.)

Okay, I would be very upset if we lynched Wraith or danakillsu right now. There are MANY better candidates... like Porochaz:

I cant really say Im unhappy with the nights results scum and 2 really annoying players. Interesting one non the less, I guess they couldn't risk him actually being a cop. Will look at nhammens posts more deeply later.

Until then

vote hiphop

What?!? I thought you said you were satisfied with hiphop's contributions? Why are you voting him again if this is the case? You are just making that switch to the Frank bandwagon look even worse.

1. he only posts 3 times and 1 is a confirm post
2. he avoids a frank bandwagon, and he tries to throw other names out there to distract people from frank
3. he criticizes another player for lack of posting, but the game has been open for 6 days when he posts only is 3rd post
4. his biggest and most telling tell, he is getting "null" vibes from all the people he just names (me being one of the ones he named) and he is getting "pro town" vibes on 3 or 4people but refuses to name him, why on earth would he not name those people unless those people he is protecting.

This is a really bad case.

1)Never said I wasn't good at mafia, said I wasn't good at scum hunting.

Scumslip? If you are town, then not being good at scumhunting means that you aren't good at mafia. Either it is a slip or a terrible defense.

Lynch me if you will, but if you are I'm not expending any effort to defend myself. I'm tired of getting lynched as town and want to move on.

I thought you said you were fine with getting lynched today after we lynched Frank. Why have you changed your mind or have I remembered wrong?

I'm not done catching up yet, but I'm too tired to focus on the game too much now. In addition to Porochaz and Bunnylover, I also suspect singersigner, Robbnva, and another player who's identity I will reveal when I'm done catching up (I'll try to make that as soon as possible).

[Wickedestjr]

I think the first people we need to look at are the people who avoided the frank bandwagon, in my mind it is those people who have a better chance of being mafia.

Why?

@Porochaz - Fair enough.

1. he only posts 3 times and 1 is a confirm post
2. he avoids a frank bandwagon, and he tries to throw other names out there to distract people from frank
3. he criticizes another player for lack of posting, but the game has been open for 6 days when he posts only is 3rd post
4.a.) his biggest and most telling tell, he is getting "null" vibes from all the people he just names (me being one of the ones he named) and he is getting "pro town" vibes on 3 or 4people but refuses to name him, b.) why on earth would he not name those people unless those people he is protecting.

1. Orochi isn't the only person guilty of having a lack of posts.
2. Frank was town, so why is avoiding the bandwagon scummy exactly? Also, what gave you the impression that his reads were given to distract us from the Frank bandwagon? This looks like you are trying to protect yourself or your scumbuddies that were on the bandwagon.
3. Valid.
4. a.) First of all, you have hardly given any of your reads so please don't use this as a point against another player. Secondly, this point is a misrep anyway. I think he made it perfectly clear that he suspected you (otherwise he wouldn't have voted for you).
b.) Many players believe that giving town reads is only good for scum because it tells them who to nightkill. Orochi doesn't need to give his town reads unless one of them is about to get lynched.

@wicked: You probably remembereed wrong, but I don't really care. If you are so sure that I am scum then lynch me. I dare you.

You did in fact say that you were fine with getting lynched:

If I vote for him and he flips town, I'll still probably get lynched Day 2 for suddenly flip-flopping on my stance and joining his very popular wagon. But whatever,

I don't really care

, because my lynch would save a PR from being mislynched.

Secondly, I never said you were scum. I actually have a pretty strong town read on you.

Wicked's deduction that there is a SK doesn't sit well with me.

Unless this is a Mafia and Werewolves setup, which isn't a possibility I orginally thought of, then it only makes sense for the nhammen kill to have been from an SK.

Why the hell is Wraith self-voting?

Do you not have a problem with UA's self vote?

He's got that same self-assured attitude he had in our last New York game where he was scum (remember that one, SK-Reck?).

I'm not sure what you mean here. Have you seen me not have this attitude as town?


dana, discussing who the cop should investigate is a terrible idea.

I think it is highly unlikely that Nhammen and UA are scum together

Why?

215 by wicked convinces me again. He is right in calling mysterio opportunistic. VOTE: mysterio

Do you think Mysterio is the only opportunistic player in the game?

hiphop, are you going to start scumhunting soon? It's not day 1 anymore and you've done none of it. You promised us a case but haven't given it and have instead decided to vote Wraith for another player's points.

Flinter has voted for mysterio as anticipated.

You've read my mind.

Vote: Flinter

I get the impression that either she is very careless about her vote or is bussing her buddy Mysterio:

1. She catches up and brings up lots of points against dana and Xite, yet votes Mysterio for one point that I brought up. That seems kind of strange to me.
2. After voting Mysterio it seemed like she didn't care about what he said and wanted to watch me argue with him instead, because she completely ignored his defense.
3. I pointed out point #2 in the thread, and she said that it was because she wasn't paying attention to the person who she was voting for which looks very opportunistic. In addition, she said that Mysterio hadn't defended against the opportunism point yet doesn't directly say anything to Mysterio. It is completely obvious that she doesn't care about her vote on him.

[Wickedestjr]

I think there are 1-2 scum amongst Robbnva, Mysterio, and hiphop.

The bandwagon on Wraith looks like a bandwagon on an easy target. There are much better lynch candidates.

[Wickedestjr]

dana, please give examples where I give you the impression that I'm willing to vote anybody but Wraith.
Robbnva, if you find my town read of Wraith so awkward, then why do you not suspect him at all?

[Wickedestjr]

Catching up. I'm 3 pages behind.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, I've read page 34.

just follow the link UA used small text, Nhammen found this. As far as I know, this is almost always prohibited: and setting your buddy up for problems with the mod (if you have the choice) is hardly something scum would do.

Nowhere in the rules does it state that small text isn't allowed, so I don't think it means anything.

flinter, when you switched your vote from Mysterio to Singersigner day 1, was that because you found her more suspicious at that time? You voted her, but singersigner never responded, and you didn't seem to care about that either. You ended up switching your vote again. You didn't seem to care about that vote either.

I'm sorry? Dana is actually one of my town reads (it is a gutread, so I know it isn't worth anything here). I suspect bunny who was wishy washy about Dana. This while logically, bunny's arguments made sense.

You still haven't explained why Xite wasn't worthy of your vote at that time. You had more points against Xite than you did Mysterio.

And I "ignored" Mysterio's defense, because it in no way adressed his change from "lets stay calm!" to "BANDWAGON!!!". Which is why my vote has been on him the rest of day 1. A revote was far from surprising.

If you were actually interested in figuring out Mysterio's allignment, then why didn't you tell him what you wanted him to explain? If you were town, I wouldn't think you would simply ignore his defense. I would think that you as town would explain why the defense doesn't convince you.

Please tell me you don't ACTUALLY believe this. That kill could have come from:
SK
1.) A second kill from the same mafia (I've given specific mafia members addition one-shot kills in the past)
[2.) Vig
PGO (for those unfamiliar with the role, kills those who target it at night. All in all unlikely given that the deceased is vanilla, but possible)
In a previous Flameaxe game, when two cult recruiters targeted the same person, that person died. Though I'm not suggesting a cult in this game, there could be two such counteracting roles.
Inventor
Reflector
ANY OTHER ROLE that Flameaxe could have made up. Even though this is a normal, BBM is far from your traditional mod. If we don't have some downright extraordinary roles this game, I will be shocked. By Science.]

3.) All that said? Probably SK or Vig. But do not make the mistake of thinking that it could only be a SK.

1.) If the mafia had two kills, then why would they have killed one of their own?
2.) Didn't really think of any of these possibilities. Has he used any of these in a Large

Normal

before? Links?
3.) Why are you arguing with me if you agree with my conclusion? I don't think I said that I was certain that this was the case, and if I did then I didn't mean to say that.


Wraith's case against ConfidAnon brings up 2 or 3 good points, but I'm not seeing the nhammen + ConfidAnon scumbuddy theory. I can't see nhammen strongly connecting himself to him like that. ConfidAnon could be from another anti-town faction however.

Wraith's points against Mysterio pretty much comes down to opportunism. However, I'm glad he brought up his vote for Wraith, because looking at it again it was actually extremely opportunistic: He says Wraith's behavior has been everything but pro-town, yet didn't mention Wraith once prior to the vote.

Wraith's ConfidAnon/Mysterio/Porochaz/nhammen scum group suggestion is kind of reaching. A summary of his case is nhammen is scum, ConfidAnon is also scum and nhammen's buddy, Mysterio is connected to ConfidAnon, so he's scum, and Porochaz is connected to Mysterio so he's also scum. Wraith, you don't need to be jumping to conclusions so soon when you don't know any of their flips.

Also, Wraith, several times you used the point that nhammen agreed with ConfidAnon and Mysterio, so they are his buddies. This is a bad point from your perspective. nhammen agreed with my posts a lot (probably more than Mysterio and ConfidAnon), yet you seem to think I'm town. Also, I'm sure he agreed with other players too.

3 pages left.

[Wickedestjr]

going back over reading some things and this stood out at me, than I went and looked at some of bunny's other games, and she/he sure does vote alot in the Super Smash Brothers games, and the reasons given for those votes don't match with this statement. And reading some her other posts it seems like she is trying to buddy up to the town a little bit

That game is ongoing. Don't talk about it.

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say if you flip town, wicked is probably mafia. What better way to earn town cred than to support a townie and say he is not scum.

Oh my goodness!! You are really starting to annoy me. I bet if he flips scum that also means I'm mafia... Is it really unusual for somebody to not suspect a suspicious looking townie? A few months ago I played in a game where there were three players who we were deciding between for a lynch. I wasn't mafia, I believed that they were all town, and I was correct.

I'll finish later. I will be starting at post 862 when I come back.

[Wickedestjr]

First, I'm going to take a look at wicked when you (Wraith) flip scum.

If Wraith flips scum, wicked is probtown. This is too obvious buddying for them to be scum partners.

??? Explain this contradiction.

Mysterio, though a follower, has at least ATTEMPTED to contribute to the town much more than Wraith.

Really??? Please, link me to a contribution from Mysterio.

You seem to be under the impression that I use my vote to investigate. I don't. Once I think someone is scum, I vote him/her, and that is that. I'm going to investigate further, but not specifically on that person.

So... if you don't use your vote to investigate, that pretty much means when you vote somebody, you are willing to lynch them. Right? Also, please respond to this:

flinter, when you switched your vote from Mysterio to Singersigner day 1, was that because you found her more suspicious at that time? You voted her, but singersigner never responded, and you didn't seem to care about that either. You ended up switching your vote again. You didn't seem to care about that vote either.

I'm sorry? Dana is actually one of my town reads (it is a gutread, so I know it isn't worth anything here). I suspect bunny who was wishy washy about Dana. This while logically, bunny's arguments made sense.

You still haven't explained why Xite wasn't worthy of your vote at that time. You had more points against Xite than you did Mysterio.

And I "ignored" Mysterio's defense, because it in no way adressed his change from "lets stay calm!" to "BANDWAGON!!!". Which is why my vote has been on him the rest of day 1. A revote was far from surprising.

If you were actually interested in figuring out Mysterio's allignment, then why didn't you tell him what you wanted him to explain? If you were town, I wouldn't think you would simply ignore his defense. I would think that you as town would explain why the defense doesn't convince you.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedest, do you have edit powers perchance?

A few months ago I was able to edit any post in New York, but I can't right now.

[Wickedestjr]

I decided to do my own votecount analysis. The three biggest bandwagons in this game have been the bandwagon on danakillsu, the bandwagon on Frank, and the bandwagon on Wraith. I strongly believe that all three are town. Here are the list of players that were on the bandwagons when they got very large:

danakillsu [11] (Shanba, Prozac,

Benmage

, JDodge, Frank, Wraith,

Mysterio

,

hiphop

, nhammen,

singersigner,

ConfidAnon)
Frank [13] (Xite, Prozac, danakillsu, UA,

singersigner,

mysterio

,

hiphop

,

robbnva,

wraith, Bunnylover,

Benmage

,

Gorrad,

Reck)
Wraith [8] (Xite, ConfidAnon, danakillsu,

Gorrad,

Mysterio

,

Robbnva,

Hiphop

,

Benmage

)

Benmage, Mysterio, and hiphop were the only three players that were on all three bandwagons and none of them were the early votes on the bandwagons so they all look opportunistic. Gorrad, Robbnva, and singersigner also look a bit bad. Xite, danakillsu, and Porochaz look a bit better, and ConfidAnon looks much better: He was the second on the Wraith bandwagon and also had the guts to put danakillsu at L-2. I'm going to read Benmage, hiphop, Mysterio, Gorrad, singersigner, and Robbnva in isolation.

[Wickedestjr]

Robbnva, have you ever played as scum before? If so, can you link me to a game where you were scum?

[Wickedestjr]

Robbnva:

Post 4: Robbnva states that he doesn't think Furcolow is mafia, because he'd expect him to lay low as mafia.
Post 5: Robbnva suddenly changes his mind about Furcolow and says he isn't looking too good.
Post 9: Robbnva votes for Furcolow for thinking about lynching dana, the claimed cop. The flip flop seems a bit wierd. He voted Furcolow for single handedly trying to get the claimed cop lynch, yet previously stated that he would expect Furcolow as mafia to lay low.
Post 10: Robbnva expresses a strong certainty that Furcolow is scum. He says that the way Xite breaks down scum tells is amazing. Firstly he is buddying to Xite in this post. Secondly, he is making the flip flop look worse.
Post 14: Robbnva says that Furcolow makes a good lynch because he is just a townie with no powers. There's no way he could know this if he was town.
Post 15: After Xite points out the slip in Robbnva's post 14, Robbnva says

Would I rather nail scum

, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

Which strongly implies that he thinks Furcolow is going to flip town despite strongly suspecting him. Specifically, the bolded implies he expected his suspect to flip town.

Post 28: Robbnva votes Orochi and says he doesn't have anything else to go on. He had previously shown suspicion of Kise and Benmage, so what happened to those suspicions? The vote for Orochi also looks kind of OMGUSy.
Post 38: Robbnva suddenly decides that he suspects Wraith now that the bandwagon has gotten strong. He jumps on. Also, he voted Wraith for his response to the pressure, yet didn't find his response to the votes day 1 to be suspicious at all. I find that hard to believe.
Post 46: Robbnva says that he thinks if Wraith is town I'm scum for defending him which seems wierd because before he switched to the Furcolow bandwagon, he was defending Furcolow, who was town. So, he would also be guilty of defending a townie who was getting a lot of attention.
Post 48: This post from Robbnva is full of IIoA. Robbnva states many facts of ConfidAnon, but doesn't give any opinions. A useless post.
Post 56: Robbnva votes Mysterio when he sees the tide shifting there from Wraith.
Post 57: AtE. "I can't seem to do anything right." What was the point of that comment other than AtE?
Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.


Also, I'm glad that Robbnva moved his vote off of the Wraith bandwagon, but now that he knows that Wraith wasn't daykilled, why doesn't he move his vote back? Looks a lot like opportunism.

My read:

Neutral/Scum

Now to take a look at the other 5 players that I mentioned. Robbnva, can you link me to a game where you were town?

[Wickedestjr]

he claims it happens towards the end of the lynch, which makes no sense cause he has now started voting for wraith again, why lynch him if he is going to die anyway.

I believe he later admitted that he was lying about the daykill.

Wicked, 3rd voter isn't early?

It's early, but the other two votes were very late, and I find you suspicious for being on every bandwagon.

Hrmmm I also don't recall being that late on the frank wagon, but pushing it earlier...I believe I was 6th, not 10th....although my Wraith vote looks fine.'

You're right. I think it was because Flameaxe originally missed your vote and put it at the end of the list. The 6th vote is still a bit later imo.

Might want to check with others if your looking for where people ended up on wagons, flame might not of listed in order of voting.

I think it is correct for the most part.

the "I don't use my vote to investigate" was part of my answer. And yes, that means it is technically for the lynch (though there are a few others I would lynch without problems).

I find it hard to believe that you were so certain that Mysterio was scum so early that you'd be willing to lynch him.

Also, flinter, you have still failed to respond to a majority of the case against you:

flinter, when you switched your vote from Mysterio to Singersigner day 1, was that because you found her more suspicious at that time? You voted her, but singersigner never responded, and you didn't seem to care about that either. You ended up switching your vote again. You didn't seem to care about that vote either.

And I "ignored" Mysterio's defense, because it in no way adressed his change from "lets stay calm!" to "BANDWAGON!!!". Which is why my vote has been on him the rest of day 1. A revote was far from surprising.

If you were actually interested in figuring out Mysterio's allignment, then why didn't you tell him what you wanted him to explain? If you were town, I wouldn't think you would simply ignore his defense. I would think that you as town would explain why the defense doesn't convince you.

you misunderstand, not cause he suspects me but because he is so sure on his reads without anything to validate them. Accusing me without any reason and daykilling wraith(although now it looks fake) wraith with again no intel if he really is scum or not.

A smart player would not be so reckless.

I find it hard to believe that one reasonless scumread from Xite (which isn't always a bad thing) is enough to change your opinion from "Xite's posts are amazing" to "I thought Xite was a good scumhunter, but I guess I was wrong." The comment looked like you were trying to get him to forget his read on you.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Robbnva, you have also not responded to the points I brought up against you.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I just noticed that I actually can edit posts in this thread, but only mine. That's why I didn't notice earlier.

[Wickedestjr]

Hiphop:

Post 8: Says a few interesting things:

1. He has no opinion after 8 pages.
2. He says this is his second large normal.
3. He says that the only thing from day 1 that provides useful information later is the bandwagons.
4. He says lynching scum day 1 is luck so we should just lynch somebody and get it over with.

I originally thought hiphop was town, but after rethinking this, the strategy makes no sense.

1. How could he not have an opinion after 8 pages? I have played with hiphop before. He's a good player. I find it impossible for a good player to not have had any sort of read of dana or Frank when they had gotten into a huge/large argument.
2. This isn't really his 2nd large normal. It's his third. He played in this game and this game. It probably means nothing, but I just thought I'd point it out.
3. Not only is this wrong, but it doesn't make sense. It's wrong because bandwagon's are obviously not the only things that provide info later in the game. The strategy doesn't make any sense, because he was also suggesting random lynching. What info could a bandwagon provide if it was random? None. I seriously doubt that hiphop believes in this strategy and I think it's BS.
4. If we random lynch day 1, then this strategy implies that we might as well random lynch every day: Random lynching day 1 provides no information, so we'd be at square one day 2. Does this mean we random lynch again? What's the point in playing if we just random lynch every day?


Post 9: hiphop begins scumhunting despite not thinking there is any point to it.
Post 11: hiphop makes a big post which says nothing helpful. It is just mafia theory. He unvotes danakillsu in this post but doesn't put his vote anywhere else which seems odd considering he doesn't care who gets lynched, so he should've just joined the largest bandwagon.
Post 17: A big post that is just him defending himself. There's still no scumhunting going on.
Post 19: hiphop says that he doesn't think Wraith is the lynch today and has somebody else in mind. He also promises a case on the person he has in mind.
Post 20: Doesn't give a case like he promised.
Post 21: Votes for Wraith despite previously thinking he wasn't the lynch for today and still hasn't given the case he promised.

My read:

Scum

His original strategy of random lynching made no sense strategically for reasons I explain in this post, he hasn't given a single one of his reads throughout the whole game, he joined a large bandwagon on a player he had previously thought was town, and promised a case on a player but didn't give it to us. I don't see why his random lynching suggestion applies to large normals but not any other sized game. I think that lynching scum day 1 in a large game is just as likely as it is in a smaller one. In addition, in my last game with hiphop he did a lot of scumhunting throughout the game. Even day 1 (We actually lynched scum day 1 that game). He was very active and wasn't at all afraid about how he appeared in that game, but in this one he has provided nothing and seems to be trying to fly under the radar.

Next is Mysterio.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickedest, just glancing at his iso, isos 3-6 are contributions, or at the minimum attempts thereof.

Are you talking about Robbnva?

Also, I'd like to point out that the only reason I was second to last on Frank's wagon is because that was when I replaced in.

I'll keep that in mind.

Also @Wickedest: You should also note that Reck voted Dana after the votecount but before the claim.

Thanks for telling me. I'll add him to the list of players I need to read in isolation.

[Wickedestjr]

Townies read massposts almost every time, no matter how long they are.

This is not true. Have you ever met Mastin? Your posts aren't nearly as bad as Mastin's but they are still hard to read and some people will probably skip or skim them.

@Wicked about hiphop - Also, he never went anywhere with the wagons, so what info do we have from them?

Good point. I'm also anxious to see what hiphop has to say about the bandwagons.

Wicked: No, it was in response you your asking me to point out posts in which Mysterio attempts contribution.

You consider 4 contributive posts from somebody 17 days ago in addition to lurking to be more helpful than Wraith?

flinter, here are some questions I would like you to answer:

1. When you switched your vote from Mysterio to Singersigner day 1, was that because you found her more suspicious at that time?

I think this tactic to be very good at achieving mislynches on players that are less good at arguing and playing the game. I'd rather observe, and scumhunt.

2. Then why did you originally say that you didn't respond to Mysterio's defense because it didn't address your points?
3. Can you link me to a game where you were town and played like this?

wait, wicked, is it your problem that you don't see what I'm thinking? As my vote seems to switch in an unnatural way to you? In that case, a scumlist from me would help, right?

A scumlist would help.

Also, Im having problems in that I am able to edit my posts from page 39 onwards.

That's wierd. I can edit all of my posts.

To make it more game relevant, I think SS is so town that it hurts.

Explain.

one where he played similar to this and another one he didn't so saying he is ALWAYS suicidal townie isn't acurate

If he did it before as town, then why is doing it here suspicious?

Kise, you're being more than ridiculous. Calling someone as not just scum, but the GODFATHER is an unbelievable strange claim.

Not really. Sometimes mafia godfathers play differently than normal mafia goons, because they show up as innocent to investigations and therefore have less to worry about.

Have I blatant wagon'd or voted anyone not scummy?

The votes on dana, Furcolow, and Wraith all look like bandwagon votes. I think dana, Furcolow, and Wraith are all town.

I might not be able to provide any ISOs today, because I spent quite some time catching up in this game along with posting in my other game. Hopefully I get a chance tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Let me ask you this wicked, is bandwagoning scummy?

Doing it occasionally isn't too bad, but jumping on every bandwagon is suspicious in my opinion.

1. I think it was mostly that it caught my attention.
2. Because that is the truth? It didn't address my points. I didn't unvote. It addressed yours. You did unvote.

1. What was the purpose of your vote for singersigner?
2. This doesn't answer my question.

Basically your case against me is a load of crap and in my eyes it actually reduces your town cred because nothing that you pointed out is a 100% scum tell, NOTHING.

Are

you

100% certain that

Wraith

is scum?

2) Robbn is a poor player. Poor town or poor scum, either way pings people's scumdars. Wraith is not a bad player, I believe. I believe he is a remarkably scummy player.

This seems biased.

He's once again avoiding the main wagons for obvious townie points and somehow thinks Wraith is town.

*sighs* I hate when people use arguments like this. Did you see how I responded to Robbnva when he brought this up?

First of all, he never explains why he thinks Wraith is town.

This is suspicious because?

Furthermore, his fake scumhunting seems to originate from a scum perspective.

...sorry?

As a townie, avoiding bandwagons because it might make you look scummy shouldn't even cross your mind.

When did I say I was avoiding the bandwagon to look townie? I never said this.

He then places a vote on Flinter who has absolutely NO CHANCE of being lynched. It is essentially a throw away vote.

Oh my gosh. Honestly, everybody voting Wraith is wasting their vote. If we tunnelvision on obvious townies you want then we will have no good reads on any of the scum flying under the radar.

[Wickedestjr]

How could it be biased? I don't think I've played with either of them. If I have, it's been months and I don't remember. This is my first game of 2010.

I get the impression you suspect Wraith a lot because of all the attention he's gotten.

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

My point is that there are no scumtells that are 100%. Also, regarding Wraith, experience plays a large part in why I believe him to be town: I have come across/seen many players like him.

[Wickedestjr]

flinter, you have ignored this question:

What was the purpose of your vote for singersigner?

if you want to make a case for somebody being town, do it. The only way to stop a bandwagon is with some sort of evidence or some sort of logical rationale as to why we are misreading him as scum.

I have been trying to derail the Wraith bandwagon by bringing up alternatives that I would like lynching instead. You need to consider this from different angles: why would Wraith act this way as scum? His posts are ones that he must know are attracting lots of attention to himself (which newbscum doesn't want) and the things he says don't have any scum motivation, for example, his idea of himself getting lynched. He has much more motivation to have himself lynched than he does as scum. It is obvious that he doesn't care about what people think about him. His reaction to the pressure is a great example.

I have only one completed game here, and I was scum here. I'm sorry, but this is all you get.

Umm... you were town in the game that you linked. Regarding the meta, you play much differently there than you do here and don't use the strategy that you claim to use whenever you are town. You said that you don't respond to the defenses from other players, yet did this a lot in the game you linked.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Earlier you said my vote had no chance, yet now you are saying that you also suspect flinter, so why do you have a problem with my vote?

915) cow-post
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.

...

- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum

915) I don't know what that means.
917) When I said I was three pages behind in post 915, that was because I saw that the thread was up to 37 pages and I was at page 34 so I just immediately thought I was three pages behind. I guess I should have said I was four pages behind in post 915... but I don't see how it matters.
919) Huh? Where are you getting AtE from in my post? I don't believe I did that.

...

So... I'm neutral leaning scum for saying I'm three pages behind, saying something else which you admit isn't really a tell, and saying something which you are undecided on? Interesting.

You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

Dang it! I guess I'm not a good scumhunter either.

I dislike how Gorrad completely ignores post 1163.

Wraith is town and his bandwagon is going nowhere. In fact, nothing is really happening. I say we bandwagon flinter or Benmage instead.

[Wickedestjr]

I might post later, but at the moment I have some work to do.

Mod:

I will be V/LA September 10th and September 11th.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Guys, please don't post too much for me to catch up on!

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry for quadruple post, but where is our other replacement?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back. Looks like I've got a bit to catch up on.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedest, look at this. This is my response to you, Bunny, and all the others. Wraith here is admitting that the only reason he's been self-sacrificing is so that people WON'T lynch him.

Honestly, I interprated that post differently.

Care to give anymore explanation as to why?

No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads.

I gave my reasons just a few posts earlier here:

You need to consider this from different angles: why would Wraith act this way as scum? His posts are ones that he must know are attracting lots of attention to himself (which newbscum doesn't want) and the things he says don't have any scum motivation, for example, his idea of himself getting lynched. He has much more motivation to have himself lynched than he does as scum. It is obvious that he doesn't care about what people think about him. His reaction to the pressure is a great example.

@wickedest, I am NOT voting for flinter. She is probably scum just from her play, but Wraith is by far the scummiest player I have ever seen in a game. No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads. What is the pro-town result of keeping Wraith alive if indeed you somehow believe he's town? He is a scummy distraction with nothing useful to add. Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

Mysterio, this doesn't answer my question. This has nothing to do with your vote. I am curious why you have a problem with

my

vote when you suspect the person

I

am voting. Also, I would rather lynch somebody who I suspect than somebody who is obvious town that is distracting you. We need information to figure out who's scum and lynching somebody who'll probably flip town gives us none. There are much much better candidates for a lynch today. Also, not lynching him doesn't mean he survives to LyLo. There are dozens of other factors involved here.

Xite91, do you think we'll manage to get somebody other than Wraith lynched today?

And don't twist my words. I dislike tunneling. I don't know if it was that game, but I think there has been only one person I ever tunneled on and in that game I was scum. You'll also see that I didn't ever react to a defense on someone elses points (if that defense was sound). Mysterio's defense against your case was fine. Meaning I won't comment on it. Seems normal, right?

First of all, you were town in the game that you linked for me. Secondly, if Mysterio's defense was fine, then why did you say it didn't address all the points?

I can't argue with this. I don't see how.
Vote:Wraith

I am pretty sure you were just arguing that he was town. Not liking this switch.

915) It's obvious you didn't read the whole post.
917) Like I said, it isn't a tell, just something I noticed. I made a point of talking about EVERY post.
919) It was very close to what robbie was doing (that I think you even called out, but it could have been gorrad) where he was saying that no matter what he does he's scum, your's was just on a much smaller scale, that's why I said it could go either way.

915) You're right. I didn't.
917) This is why I didn't read the whole thing.
919) That wasn't AtE. I was simply pointing out why Robbnva's point against me was a bad one. My response was completely justified: If Wraith was scum I would've gotten lots of attention for defending him. If Wraith was town I was already getting attention for defending him for "trying to get town credit". This pretty much means that I have to attack Wraith.


I really like Shanba's post 1205.

I'll read Wraith's big posts on page 50 later, but excluding them, I am finished with pages 48-50.

[Wickedestjr]

I like this point from Wraith:

In his Post 17, first one for Day 2, he immeidately jumps on the closest, most popular wagon, me, for "anti-town actions" that he fails to explain. Let's go back a day and remember that he originally voted dana for "failing to explain" his own reasons for suspecting Furcolow.

Wraith, I didn't really see nhammen as much of a DSP. He seemed to fly under the radar and follow everybody else.


This day has lasted way too long. Having such a long day is kind of unhealthy as players begin to get bored (that includes me). I don't seem to be convincing anybody else that flinter is scum right now so I guess I'll try and convince you guys tomorrow. For now, it is between Mysterio and Porochaz. I am more convinced that Mysterio is scum and he has a larger bandwagon than Porochaz, so...

Unvote. Vote: Mysterio.

Sorry for not posting yesterday. I've been very busy the past two days. Hopefully I'll actually be done catching up by at least Thursday or Friday.

[Wickedestjr]

Xite, do you have any completed scum games? Can I have a link if so?

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Deadline Extension

[Wickedestjr]

Now you aren't as bad as others but I would call your contribution to this game low to mid-range, blending in without being overly vocal,

I don't think I have really been blending in. I admit I haven't been the most vocal, but that's not a bad thing and also not something I have complete control over.

and you have basically avoided the bandwagons of Dana(you had voted early on but unvoted when it seemed to be going somewhere),

I never found dana suspicious. I jumped on the bandwagon because it was very early in the game, and I saw jumping on the bandwagon as an opportunity to help get us out of the RVS. Speaking of dana, despite my earlier town read I

am

starting to rethink things. I'm not liking how he hasn't contributed anything this whole day.

you avoided frank's, you avoided wraith's. But now you vote mysterio cause you think he is more scummy and he has the larger wagon.

Are you trying to point out a contradiction? There is no contradiction. This is just a misrep: I avoided Frank's bandwagon and Wraith's bandwagon because I strongly felt that they were town. Mysterio is somebody who I actually suspect.

I wonder what you would have done if there was no deadline in place?

Honestly, when I voted Mysterio I didn't even realize that there was a deadline, but I want this day to end and I don't want to try starting another bandwagon, and will instead join the bandwagon that I like the best.

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount

Wraith [9] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Bunnylover, Reck, Rob, Wraith)
Mysterio [7] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, hiphop, Wickedestjr, Shanba, Lowell)
Prozac [1] (Kise)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
Robbnva [1] (Xite)

Not Voting [1] (My Milked Eek)


The Mysterio bandwagon only needs four more people. @Kise, UltimaAvalon, Xite91, & My Milked Eek - Can you guys join the Mysterio bandwagon?

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP:

What's the votecount?

Lol. I did not see this when I made that last post. That's a bit ironic.

[Wickedestjr]

-AH!

[Wickedestjr]

Awesome game Flameaxe. I really enjoyed it.

Scum MVP was definitely 100% that evilpacman/@.@/JDodge slot. I was fooled by every player in that slot (they must've just been destined to do well).

Shanba, it was fun being mason buddies.

[Wickedestjr]

I wish wickedest was still alive. He was literally the only bastion of sense in this game.

Sigged.