Newbie 152 - Game Over

[mprty5]

Hmmm...
Thok changed his vote at an odd time. As ibaesha says, it's "Not too much of a change in circumstance".

Here's what I think: Thok (whom I think may be Mafia) picks Marbak (his partner) to get things moving. But, when Narninian Votes Marbak, Thok decides that he does not want his partner lynched. So he quickly switches to Kiarlea.

unvote: Tyfo, Vote:Thok

Yay! A reaction!

I will point out that scum voting each other has gotten to be such a "scum tell" in newbie games that I would specifically advise my scum partner not to do this. (Of course, I'll let ibaesha or Narninian explain why that is a WIFOM argument and what WIFOM means).

I'm also experienced enough not to panic about a (hypothetical) partner having two votes on them-they stil would need two more votes to be lynched. (Although again, this is WIFOM).

That's why you would change your vote now. It would look very odd if you moved your vote off someone who had three votes. But with only two it doesn't look as odd.

And let's say you're NOT Mafia. Why did you change your vote? It didn't really do much.

[Thok]

And let's say you're NOT Mafia. Why did you change your vote? It didn't really do much.

I'll repeat what I said earlier.

Yay! A reaction!

Moving my vote from Marbak to Kiarlea got a reaction out of you and has started discussion. Now we have some content to work with, and we don't have to sit around twiddling our thumbs.

[ibaesha]

I don't find mprty5's reaction odd at all. In fact, it appears rather pro-town to me. There's really nothing wrong with being aggressive as town. Without aggressive townies, then we'd all stand around staring at each other and shrugging.

I also don't think what Thok did was too suspicious as I was considering doing something similar to get a discussion going. It's true that he introduces WIFOM with it by essentially saying 'If I were scum, I wouldn't do that'. The thing is, I've found that WIFOM is inescapable in mafia. To me it's when it's used that tells me if it's scummy or not.

What I do find suspicious is Marback's reaction to mprty5.

Just throwing out your vote because of some perceived "tell" (especially a flimsy one), seems a bit over aggressive.

Considering we just left the random vote stage (actually this brought us out of it) and have little to go on, 'throwing out your vote' is a misinterpretation of what happened. See above about aggressive townie behavior. You also seem rather defensive about it when the vote wasn't on you. It makes me wonder if mprty5 is either fully or partially right.

FOS: Marback

I'm happy to leave my vote on Kiarlea until she contributes to the conversation.

[Tyfo]

(I still remember what you was in our last game Thok. )

I still do not see enough evidence to make a not-random vote; remember that this is a newbie game and we are bound to make mistakes.

[mprty5]

Good point, ibaesha. I also find it nice to know that someone is considering that I might be (at least partially) right .

However, not enough people have posted about this yet. I'm not going to change my vote yet. I'll see what people think about your FOS on Marback first.

You must be very happy tyfo, your only vote is gone .

[Kiarlea]

I don't really have much to contribute yet, I'm just keeping an eye on things. I know the votes don't mean much at this stage, so I'm not really worried.

Now, I have to post this oh-so-meagre offering because I'm lurking by accident.

[ibaesha]

Waiting around for others to talk while you keep an eye on things doesn't help us find scum. We're past the random voting stage, therefore votes do have some meaning behind them. For example this:

unvote

random vote

vote: Kiarlea

[Narninian]

UNVOTE

I don't think what thok did was overly suspicious...

so minor FOS: mprty5

[mprty5]

What I do find suspicious is Marback's reaction to mprty5.

Just throwing out your vote because of some perceived "tell" (especially a flimsy one), seems a bit over aggressive.

FOS: Marback

UNVOTE

I don't think what thok did was overly suspicious...

so minor FOS: mprty5

ibaesha says that marback is suspicious. Suddenly, you unvote?
It's also odd that you think Thok is NOT mafia, yet you unvote

Marback

. You also say nothing about Marback. Prehaps you are trying to protect him?
I'll leave my vote on Thok for now, but all three of you look suspicious. I think two of you are the mafia.

FOS:Narninian
FOS:Marback

and last, what did I do that was so suspicious?
If towines didn't do stuff like this, all lynches would be random. Then this would be boring .
But it's fun!

[Marbak]

I don't find mprty5's reaction odd at all. In fact, it appears rather pro-town to me. There's really nothing wrong with being aggressive as town. Without aggressive townies, then we'd all stand around staring at each other and shrugging.

What I do find suspicious is Marback's reaction to mprty5.

I thought mprty5's accusation was pretty unjustified; particularly given that it handily fingered two separate people, and also given this just now:

It's also odd that you think Thok is NOT mafia, yet you unvote Marback. You also say nothing about Marback. Prehaps you are trying to protect him?
I'll leave my vote on Thok for now, but all three of you look suspicious. I think two of you are the mafia.
FOS:Narninian
FOS:Marback

Where he throws suspicion on Narninian as well.

I concede that he could just be an aggressive townie, but I just wanted to point out he’s being very liberal with who he accuses.

Oh, and just a minor point - its Marbak, not Marback. Not really important, but I figured voting for someone who isn't in the game might be considered a scummy play by some.

[mprty5]

Sorry,

Marbak

I concede that he could just be an aggressive townie, but I just wanted to point out he’s being very liberal with who he accuses.

So, if I wasn't liberal, you wouldn't defend yourself?

Also, being liberal draws note to me - something I woudn't want to do if I was scum.

Passive townies get killed by scum . Aggressive townies catch mafia.

[mprty5]

Where he throws suspicion on Narninian as well.

And you defend Narninian for what reason?

Here is my new theroy:
I accuse Thok and Marbak in this post:

Here's what I think: Thok (whom I think may be Mafia) picks Marbak (his partner) to get things moving. But, when Narninian Votes Marbak, Thok decides that he does not want his partner lynched. So he quickly switches to Kiarlea.

Marbak protects himself- but not Thok. Notice he says nothing about the fact that it might not be Thok.

Just throwing out your vote because of some perceived "tell" (especially a flimsy one), seems a bit over aggressive.

Then I talk about Narninian:

It's also odd that you think Thok is NOT mafia, yet you unvote Marback. You also say nothing about Marback. Prehaps you are trying to protect him?
I'll leave my vote on Thok for now, but all three of you look suspicious. I think two of you are the mafia.

Marbak defends himself again (on a post where he is NOT the main target) - but this time, he protects Narninian too.

Where he throws suspicion on Narninian as well.

I'll give Narninian and Marbak a chance to explain themselves before I vote for one of them.

[Marbak]

I wasn't defending Narninian anymore than I was defending Thok earlier, I was pointing out that you had attacked three players in one post, which I thought was a tad over the top, so to speak.

ibaesha says that marback is suspicious. Suddenly, you unvote?
It's also odd that you think Thok is NOT mafia, yet you unvote Marback. You also say nothing about Marback. Prehaps you are trying to protect him?
I'll leave my vote on Thok for now, but all three of you look suspicious. I think two of you are the mafia.
FOS:Narninian
FOS:Marback

Also, the statement:

Passive townies get killed by scum Aggressive townies catch mafia.

Isn't always entirely correct. While being aggressive does help us catch scum, I would have thought that the mafia would attempt to kill the players that were the most verbal and aggressive.

All that said, I'm not really happy with voting or FOSing you, because being as aggressive as you are when your scum would be foolish, at best. Unless you ARE scum and just trying to trick us (ie. being really aggressive in the hope he will be labelled a townie simply due to the fact scum are never meant to do that [I’m sure there has to be an acronym for that- WIFOM?] ).

Mafia is so confusing.

[Thok]

Passive townies get killed by scum . Aggressive townies catch mafia.

So why aren't you pushing Kiarlea to post more? She's been incredibly passive.

[Kiarlea]

She's been forgetting she's here, as she's used to much faster mafia (even your games, Ibby)

My vote's staying on mprty5 for now. You're too eager to accuse people for silly things. You

need

people to be moving fast like that, striking out in hopes of a reaction. Twiddling your thumbs waiting for someone to start a polite discussion so someone would eventually give up something would be pointless. The game'd never get anywhere!

Narninian's been rather quiet so far, so

FoS: Narninian

, more to remind myself to keep an eye on him than anything.

Ibby's right, though, I have been rather passive. I blame it on problems in one of the mud's I play, I haven't been reading any forums much. Sorry!

Anyhow, I'll be trying to remember to keep a closer eye on this (without leaving the window open and getting yelled at again ) To my notice, nobody's been acting particularly scummy, but if you read back, nobody's really said much of anything yet.

So let's get talking, hmm?

[Kiarlea]

Ibby's right, though, I have been rather passive. I blame it on problems in one of the mud's I play, I haven't been reading any forums much. Sorry!

My bad, Thok's right.

Don't ask why I thought that was Ibaesha.

I'm usually much fiestier, I promise.

[Tyfo]

unvote;

Kiarlea gave a pretty good reason, but I'm not sure whether I will vote for him yet.

FoS: mprty5

- seems odd that you keep blaming people for virtually nothing.

[mprty5]

unvote;

Kiarlea gave a pretty good reason, but I'm not sure whether I will vote for him yet.

FoS: mprty5

- seems odd that you keep blaming people for virtually nothing.

What do you consider something?

[Tyfo]

It just seems like your going for pro-town reactions on your side - but I may have misinterpreted your posts.

[Kiarlea]

Mafia IS interpretation of posts. Sometimes it's just a lot harder than it ought to be.

People have sneaky minds and sneakier posts.

[ibaesha]

I'll leave my vote on Thok for now, but all three of you look suspicious. I think two of you are the mafia.

In a hurry? The first time you did it, I didn't find it suspicious. The second time is a little different. You are relaying an awful lot of assurity that two people are scum without hardly hearing anyone else speak.

unvote: Kiarlea

vote: mprty5

[Thok]

I'd throw yet another FOS on mrpty5, but at this point I think it's a bit redundant. There is also a chance that mprty5 really is an extremely overzealous townie, but that seems sort of unlikely to me. He should get a chance to defend himself before we push his bandwagon any further. (I am willing to put a third vote on him depending on the contents of his next post).

As a side comment, I sort of want to commend Kiarlea for her post 39, which does a decent job of distancing her from mrpty5. If they are scum together (and I'm not quite convinced that they couldn't be partners) then it's a vital post for her to make.

[Marbak]

I agree, I'd like to see mrpty's defence soon, there’s no reason to speed lynch someone before they get a chance to respond to accusations.

I'm still not sure on mrpty's alignment on this one. It’s either an amazingly gutsy piece of scum play, which seems to have backfired somewhat, or it’s a genuinely amazingly aggressive townie play to root out scum by accusing a load of people. =/

[ibaesha]

I'm no where near ready to end the day.

[Flying Dutchman]

Vote Count (4 to lynch):

mprty5: 2

(ibaesha, Kiarlea)

Kiarlea: 1

(Thok)

Narninian: 1

(Marbak)

Thok: 1

(mprty5)

Not voting: Tyfo, Narninian