Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #32 (isolation #0) » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:36 am

Post by jenniwren »

Katsuki wrote:Lets see, we've had 11 confirm, but only 5 post. Where the hell is everyone else??
:oops: I just woke up...late night last night.

@UncertainKitten: I agree that it's probably not a good idea to claim game of origin, especially at this time.

Vote: LynchMePls
, because he said please, so it's the polite thing to do!
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Post Post #35 (isolation #1) » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:50 am

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@Katsuki: I was answering UK's question by stating that I agree with others who have said they don't think it's a good idea.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #2) » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:33 pm

Post by jenniwren »

unvote
Vote: Coach Travis

Coach Travis wrote:Vote:LynchMepls For playing a crucial role in catching me in my first game as scum.
Are you worried about him catching you in this game? :shifty:

@UncertainKitten: I think it's probably not a good idea to claim game of origin because even though there are a lot of universal characters, we don't know for certain that every character assigned to people in this game is universal. I think it's pretty unlikely that anyone could actually figure anything concrete out based on that information, though.
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Post Post #129 (isolation #3) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:32 am

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@UK: Mainly because we don't know what kind of information might ultimately prove useful to someone with an anti-town objective; I'd rather err on the side of caution.
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Post Post #247 (isolation #4) » Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:54 pm

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I didn't mean to lurk...my computer went into the shop Friday night and I've had to fight my dad for computer time on his (he's been raiding on WoW this weekend). I had gotten behind on this thread, and I need to do a reread to catch up and write something up. I will try to get more posted tonight, but I am traveling Tuesday, so today will be a busy day all in all.

My initial thoughts, though, are that Zwet had too much fun tormenting Tans with his "irrelevants," as every time he says that (or something equally dismissive), it makes Tans dance a little faster. (Naughty Zwet!)

Tans really wants to prove he's town...and though I disagree with some of his reasons to accuse people (For instance, the whole thing about Kat's posting after a trip thing? That was bad.), I am not certain he is scum. I also think it would be easy for more experienced scum to exploit his desperation. I'm still trying to feel people out and wade through this entire discussion; one thing I've seen in mafia is that hasty conclusions usually end up causing problems. Anyway, I'll post more later.
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Post Post #361 (isolation #5) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:04 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Okay...this game moves fast. I ended up not traveling today because my computer is still being repaired, and now I am using my parents' computer, but my dad is rushing me so he can raid. :roll: (Finally finished...started the read-through about eight hours ago.)

First, I apologize because I got way behind in this game because of other games, and catching up has been a bit of a pain. UK called it with "10 pages of chaff," and I agree because reading through it all is...slow going. Sorting through Zwet's claim and Tans' walls of self-defense and LMP's huge walls of quotes is tedious. However, I finally picked over it enough to find something and it seems to have picked up in the past few pages, so yay on both counts.

Next, I still had an RVS vote on CT, and after rereading everything, I feel fine keeping it there.

Abstract
(aka TL;DR)
Overall, CT is being exceedingly cautious in his play and indicates he’s looking for a good wagon to settle on. His later postings definitely demonstrate that he’s preparing to jump from Zwet’s wagon to MPR’s and is just looking for the right opportunity to make the switch as others migrate in that direction. He’s tunneled on Zwet so hard for so long that he can’t just up and unvote, so he’s dropping hints about his suspicions of MPR so that no one accuses him of vote-hopping. In each post he is careful not to nail himself down to anything, even his vote on Zwet, whom he has maintained is guilty almost from the beginning, allowing himself room to maneuver without drawing undue attention to that maneuvering. Also, he makes an interesting slip in post #148, which I address below in Point D.

Evidence

A)
The way he responds to Zwet’s first vote on him is, in tone,a lot more serious than required.
Coach Travis wrote:Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and
either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum
. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.
Bolded area is a superfluous qualification of the first clause. Read his posts and look for this type of language; you'll find it in abundance.

B)
His analysis of Zwet in Post #148 is also full of qualifying information; he retracts his accusations about the BW being scummy, because of what other people say about it and about his reaction.
Coach Travis wrote: Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that.
C)
Also in Post #148, he suggests Tans and Zwet are scumbuddies who are distancing. He then says
Coach Travis wrote: Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.
(Coming back to this in point E.)

D)
Another gem in this post (148):
Coach Travis wrote:
Tanstalus wrote: @everyone, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

Townie, because mafia need to pay attention to everything they say, to make sure they don't do something stupid to get caught, so they're focus is a bit more defensive, where townies are more focused catching scum, so they tend not to worry as much about defense.
At first I thought this post was about
reading
; then I realized it’s about WRITING. The most interesting thing about this, though, is that it’s a response to Tanstalus’s quote about READING (Post #141), as indicated by the rest of the quote:
Tanstalus wrote:If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.
I think it’s interesting that CT is thinking of being careful not in reading, but in writing, to the point that he misreads the question and responds based on the misread. This misunderstanding of Tans' question is an unusual slip and reveals what CT is being careful about in the game.

E)
In post #219, CT decides to defend Tans for "flailing." Now that others have used this word and this analogy, he backs off his claim in Post #148 which basically found Tans very scummy for flailing.

F)
In Post # 266, he has this to say.
Coach Travis wrote: Basically, there's a chance [Tans] is fact just a sloppy scum, but right now I don't feel that way and think zwet would be the much better lynch, because he seems more in control of himself, and looks like he's deliberately playing scummy, which I don't like.

I also agree about lurking being a big problem, and if I wasn't so convinced zwet was scum, I'd consider voting MPR as well, just because he needs to contribute something soon. In other news, I'm liking Dekes so far, so there's someone else I could add to my list of town reads. Right now my only strong scum read is zwet, but I'm not liking the inaction from MPR, and anyone I haven't mentioned could potentially be scum, but I still haven't had enough time to look into them.
It looks like he is still going to push the Zwet vote, but is leaving room to—or perhaps preparing to—jump wagons if he needs to do so. Phrasings like “there’s a chance” and “If I wasn’t so convinced…I’d consider voting…” and “anyone I haven’t mentioned” are also suspect. He’s again indicating that we shouldn’t be surprised to see him jump wagons if someone else gets a good wagon going on another player.

G)
Coach Travis wrote:And yeah, I get that zwet may be similar in his other games, but just in general the way he comes off I'm not liking at all, and with that type of player I'd always prefer to have them lynched because even if he's town I'm not finding him terribly helpful, and so far he's done nothing to make me think he's town. I've never got the point of playing mafia if you're going to be that deliberately unhelpful. MPR's fishing is getting ridiculous though, so I'm also suspicious of him.
This still looks like he’s balancing between two people who are receiving negative attention right now, which again indicates he’s looking for the best wagon.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #6) » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:43 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Coach Travis wrote:
jenniwren wrote:
A)
The way he responds to Zwet’s first vote on him is, in tone,a lot more serious than required.
Coach Travis wrote:Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and
either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum
. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.
Bolded area is a superfluous qualification of the first clause. Read his posts and look for this type of language; you'll find it in abundance.
I seriously don't get what's wrong with that post. From experience I know town are as likely to bandwagon as scum, I've seen it happen so many times where a bandwagon is almost all townies. Nothing I said there was false, or unnecessary.
It isn't that it's false, just that it's a very self-protective comment. No one would have questioned you saying "Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning," so it feels like the extra comment about it being just as viable a town tell as a scum tell feels like you are trying to cover all the bases in case you get called on it.

The same goes for these:
Coach Travis wrote:
jenniwren wrote:His analysis of Zwet in Post #148 is also full of qualifying information; he retracts his accusations about the BW being scummy, because of what other people say about it and about his reaction.
Coach Travis wrote: Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that.
C)
Also in Post #148, he suggests Tans and Zwet are scumbuddies who are distancing. He then says
Coach Travis wrote: Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.
(Coming back to this in point E.)
Once again, nothing there that doesn't make sense. I already explained the thing with zwet's fake claim, and never seeing anything like that before on day 1. Of course I was going to feel strange about it at first, but once people explained how it's just a normal thing he liked to do, I realized I was wrong. And in this case, it was fine to leave my vote on zwet because both of them were still getting some suspicion, so even if tans was getting a bit more attention, it made sense to me to just keep the vote where it was.
Again, it's not that what you're saying is wrong or doesn't make sense, but that it is worded so as to give you as much leeway as possible.

In fact, what stands out to me is the political eloquence of your language; it's making a stand without committing, which allows one to make comments that one does not have to be held to later.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #7) » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:56 am

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Please don't hammer him yet; I'd like to see him claim, and I will be V/LA a little since I am now using the Internet at my school library until my own is hooked up on Thursday, and they don't stay open much on weekends.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #8) » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:07 am

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Unvote


MPR is at L-1 now.
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Post Post #577 (isolation #9) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:06 pm

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Coach Travis wrote:Surprised I'm still alive, guess the scum figure I'm still too suspicious to kill off. Anyway, more bad news:I tried tracking zwet, but was unable to determine anything. So either he's immune, or I got blocked. Either way, it's not good. Seeing as MPR was town, I may have to reconsider some things, but I'm still not liking zwet all, so he's currently back to being my top suspect.
Or maybe he didn't do anything?
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Post Post #583 (isolation #10) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:20 am

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Katsuki wrote:I have never ever heard of track immunity before. So for me, either he got blocked, or he is lying about being blocked.
If this works like any other block, then that would mean that he was just blocked in general, and whomever he tracked is inconsequential.

It seems a bit of a stretch to infer that Zwet definitely did something in this situation. If you were blocked, then you were blocked...that doesn't mean your target blocked you. You are heavily inferring that Zwet knew you would investigate him and then specifically blocked you from doing that and that because you were blocked from investigating him specifically then he must be scum, and in reality, if you were blocked, then you would have received that response about anyone you investigated.
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Post Post #584 (isolation #11) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:21 am

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EBWODP: Correct me if I'm wrong in that interpretation, but that's what it seems like to me.
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Post Post #591 (isolation #12) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:58 pm

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For clarification, in 583 I was trying to determine if I was reading CT's post correctly, in that he was inferring that Zwet HAD to have done something, and that something had to have been scummy since Zwet is still his top suspect. I don't think it came out the way I wanted, but that's basically what I meant.
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Post Post #611 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:25 pm

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And this will be a short day apparently...
Vote: CoachTravis
.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #14) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:24 pm

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Coach Travis wrote:Oh, wow! People actually believe that claim with all the blatant lying he's done this game? This is just ridiculous, and makes me further convinced he's scum, clearly playing off the fact that my ability failed on me, so I couldn't figure him out. I doubt he even targeted me, to be honest. If he was really a cop with a guilty, he would have brought this up the instant the day started, or at least as soon as I mentioned what happened, he wouldn't have waited until people were generally convinced to ignore me for the day. This just seems like scum wanting to remove someone they find an annoyance.
Vote:zwet
I think you're wrong about that. A cop with a guilty verdict is better off trying to get that person lynched without claiming right away so that he can live through another night. When it looked like people were not going to pay attention to you, that's when he did claim...because he
did
have a guilty verdict.
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Post Post #619 (isolation #15) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:38 pm

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The correct play is NOT to lynch the claimed cop. If he is scum, we'll soon know. If we lynch him, we risk he cop. If we lynch CT, we risk a tracker....or do we? I think it's interesting that CT was RB'd and not killed last night. They killed someone else, either UK or someone she protected, but I don't recall anyone else claiming yesterday except Tans...why take a stab in the dark rather than killing a claimed PR?

Anyway, your logic is non sequitor. You may or may not have lied, but that has nothing to do with Zwet's guilt or not.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #16) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 pm

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Coach Travis wrote:I can understand not wanting to lynch a claimed cop I guess, even though I don't believe in the claim in the least bit, because it's impossible to get a straight up scum read on me, I'm not a miller or anything like that. Until I can indisputably prove otherwise, I'm willing to at least consider that maybe he is a cop, and the mafia did something to make the investigation turn up that way, maybe did something to me so I'd turn up scum on an investigation, I know a power like that is not unheard of(I had it in my scum game).

Because I don't want to die, I propose a way out of this, so neither of us need to be lynched:I target him again tomorrow, and if he's still alive I wait until he reveals his investigation target and their alignment, then if my power actually works, I can confirm or deny his targeting that person. If it goes through and he targets no one and is alive, I assume he was blocked, and could be a cop, same thing for if we name the same person. If I get a different name than he lists, we can assume my first guess was right and he's lying. I'd much rather do this than have either of us lynched for now, since I know I'm town.

So, going with that, I'll
unvote
Vote:Mcgriddle
because he was my next suspect after zwet, and he too has contributed pretty much nothing to this game.

What could the mafia possibly do to you that would skew a cop read? They roleblocked you AND they made you appear to be mafia on the same night? Riiiight.

And your proposal has one huge flaw...it would STILL be your word against his. He could list any name and you could say you got a different one.

I don't think Zwet is scum framing you. I don't think he's an insane cop. I think he's EXACTLY who he says he is, and I think you're desperate to stay alive.
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Post Post #637 (isolation #17) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:33 pm

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What about you, Tans? Why does who I vote for tomorrow have anything to do with this? I'll cross that bridge if I come to it, but right now, I think it's apparent CT is just fighting to stay alive. He sure is a popular guy at night, though, isn't he? I mean, he was RB'd, mysteriously given a false alignment by the mafia, and targeted by Zwet all in one night (Ask me which one of those three things I actually believe happened.).

Interesting, though, that you hop on his wagon to follow the cop then hop off when he hits L-1. I think caution is a good thing normally, but it only occurs to you NOW to bring up the idea of a CC?
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Post Post #640 (isolation #18) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:53 pm

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tanstalas wrote:And what do you mean about given a false alignment by the mafia? Do you mean that the mafia may have switched him as well thinking that a cop would investigate the "outed power role"?
Read the theories CT has posted about why Zwet may have gotten a guilty verdict. This is one of them.
tanstalas wrote:This is all a big theory, however if I was mafia and we had a bus driver AND a RB I think I would have done the exact same thing. RB the tracker and swap him with a scum buddy while killing another person hoping to get a doc or cop.
Uh-huh. This is a pretty brazen comment to make since you think CT is still the best choice of the day.

So just for clarification, now...the list of things that could have happened to CT last night was that he was RB'd, swapped, protected by UK, and investigated by Zwet? (Oh yes, and he also targeted Zwet himself, however unsuccessful.) (Oh yes, and the one other thing is that CT is lying through his teeth?)

To quote Alice...things are getting "curiouser and curiouser." I'd love to hear from more people now.
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Post Post #642 (isolation #19) » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:22 pm

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tanstalas wrote:The tone I am getting from you indicates you would rather lynch him without letting everyone weigh in on what has happened.
No. I want to hear from more people. I JUST said that in my last post.
jenniwren wrote:I'd love to hear from more people now.
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Post Post #666 (isolation #20) » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:43 pm

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I've thought about the possibility of the lyncher scenario, but CT has been suspicious to me from the beginning. The sheer amount of speculation going on in his recent posts is like a million waving red flags. Also, why would both of them have results tomorrow? CT has implied he was either RB'd or that Zwet voodoo magicked himself somehow to be untrackable; if there is a RB, then why wouldn't one of them be RB'd again?

So many of his words are speculation with no textual support and without having SOMETHING concrete in the text to base this on, he's lost a lot of credibility. I think theories are fine if you can back them up with some text to prove your ideas have merit, because then people have something to talk about, but otherwise, they're just theories and no facts. So much of his argument against Zwet has been based on the fact that he did something or the other differently than the way Zwet did it, and that proves his allegiance to town, but that is a logical fallacy. I'm just not buying his story.
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Post Post #737 (isolation #21) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:50 pm

Post by jenniwren »

GG scum. You will see in the Dead Topic that most of us were still questioning who you were until the end, lol.
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
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Post Post #741 (isolation #22) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:56 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Yeah...I believed Zwet because I knew he was town since I had hidden behind him on N1. Grrrr...
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
~
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Post Post #743 (isolation #23) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:01 pm

Post by jenniwren »

I could have cleared Zwet, for example, had I hidden behind someone other than gdmf Dracula, lol.
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
~
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Post Post #750 (isolation #24) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:17 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Katsuki wrote:Well :-P

Why me anyways?
Lol, you were in a game with someone I know (Newbie 995), and you seemed to be playing similarly. I couldn't hide behind Zwet because I figured he might be vig killed, and I didn't want to hide behind Dekes, because I figured he was way too obv-town to live. I didn't have a good read on SpyreX, and I had a slight scummy vibe from LMP and VV. I didn't know what would happen if I hid behind Tans, and McGriddle was seeming pretty scummy, so...yeah, lol. I took a chance on you. I had a gut feeling after I sent in the pm that I should see if KDub would let me change it, but I convinced myself it would be okay. Never, ever, ever going against a gut feeling EVER again. Good job, though...seriously.

The hider sort of works like a cop, really. There's just the chance she will be killed in the process. I actually really liked this role.
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
~
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Post Post #755 (isolation #25) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:26 pm

Post by jenniwren »

@VV: If the hider claims targets, wouldn't the scum kill them both?

@Kats: Vren
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
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Post Post #760 (isolation #26) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:35 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Good idea...I wish I had done that!

Yeah, Kats, I read that game, and it was crazy.
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
~
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Post Post #763 (isolation #27) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:37 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Yeah, lol...what are the chances of that ever happening again?
Has she a name? / She reminds me of a small bird, perhaps a jenny wren. / An owl perhaps, that speaks only when the rest of the world sleeps. / Jenny will do well enough. ~Juliet Marillier,
Daughter of the Forest
~

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