Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[Oso]

Oso, you're being extremely hypocritical here. Jailkeeper and Doctor are similar. As are Cop, Watcher, and Tracker. You're voting for Xvart because his role is similar to one that's died. Why should we not vote you for being a similar role to one that died? Or why shouldn't we vote for Vezo. Why aren't you voting for Vezo?

In addition, you're ignoring the overwhelming circumstantial evidence pointing towards Xvart being a doctor (and I'm not seeing scum doc in this game one bit). The biggest is that there was no NK night one, and it's unlikely Sotty made the kill (again, zero benefit from her doing it, and they lose the roleblock). Plus, there's Vezo's watching him visit HP. He wasn't killing HP, so he has some other role. I find two mafia roleblockers to be highly unlikely. At that point, you might as well not have any town power roles. It's possible he's some other kind of role, but frankly, him being a doctor makes the most sense.

Yes, I think I've talked myself in to one of Oso or Vezo being scum. I'll agree that Vezo has definitely been scummier, but something I just thought of was how Oso immediately brought up Kage being insane. I don't see that as very likely if he were town. I'll have to reread that as well.

unvote

I see it's clear we're not lynching q21 today, so I'll save that for after we get another scum. I'm not voting Xvart.

NO ONE SHOULD HAMMER XVART RIGHT NOW. Still need some time today to reread.

Nope, not hypocritical.

If vezo or I flipped town, then I would say those roles are similar enough to lynch the other off of that, as scum. Cop gives an alignment. Tracker and Watcher just determine if someone has a night action and who they perfoemwd that action on. There is virtually no similarity between a cop and Watcher/Tracker except that a Watcher/Tracker might be thought of as a 'nerfed' cop when used in tandem and using POE. Neither can definitively determine alignment like a Cop can.

Not so Doc and JailKeeper. They are identical in all respects except for the role blocking power of Jailkeeper. If you go to the wiki here, Jailkeeper=Paranoid Doctor but he is told of his role blocking ability. A Jailkeeper

IS

a Doctor. Not similar to, not kind of like, but is a Doctor.

As to the overwhelming evidence, someone had to make the kill N1 and was prevented. Just because you wouldn't take a pass on using a role block ability to be the person to make the kill on N1 (or any other given night) doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't do so. I still maintain that xvart's claim is false and that using his claim to explain the no kill on N1 is just wrong.

[charter]

Jailkeeper and Doctor aren't the same thing. I'm sorry but you're wrong. And that's in addition to there's nothing stopping the mod from putting multiple of the same role in the game. So if that's what you're basing your decision off, you need to reconsider.

[Humble Poirot]

Posting from cell from a dull class.

Charter, it's not that I don't believe q21 can be scum but Vezok's scummyness has been far too obvious and he keeps changing all the time to whatever tactic suits him.

Just look at his preemptive excuse not to de blamed after a mislynch.

At this point, we need SSBF and you to be sharp.

Once again, Oso is in the wrong waggon and he is followed by opportunistic sheep (q21 and vezok). This is a kagelord waggon deja vu.

opposed to that. Xvart and myself are trying to bring proof to our cases. Charter is now doing the same.

Town wants to get scum. Genuinely. Town tries. I see 2 players who aren't.

See ya.

HP

[Oso]

..
Yes, I think I've talked myself in to one of Oso or Vezo being scum. I'll agree that Vezo has definitely been scummier,

but something I just thought of was how Oso immediately brought up Kage being insane.

I don't see that as very likely if he were town. I'll have to reread that as well.
..

And by the way, the bold is flat wrong. There is only one post where I mention sanity in reference to KageLord here Post-851:

..
The fact of the matter is, even with it catching xvart(scum) claim out, diddin had to die. He was about to be confirmed by another confirmed townie. Yes, I referred to myself as town and and confirmed. I'm going to use the credibilty (now dead)KG gave me. He died and flipped cop while having said, in the thread the day before he was NKed, he thought I was town. Here:Post-678.

So unless you want to argue sanity or argue that he didn't want to come out and give a confirmed 'guilty' result in order to get another day, then I am confirmed town even if it is a bit ambiguous by KG never having come right out and said I was 'Innocent'.

I may be wrong in some of my reasoning but I'm not scum being deliberately wrong.
..

That is the only post where I have mentioned sanity in relation to KG. I did ask to folks consider (in my Post 747, the one you(Charter) expressed some confusion over) if KG had gotten a 'Guilty' on me and kept quite about it in order to get another investigation in.

The first person to mention sanity in regards to KG was HP in Post - 720 when he responds to diddin's Post 717

Other mentions of sanity in relation to KG

Humble Poirot: Post-755 (It's in there. That was a wall.)
diddin: Post-763
Humble Poirot: Post-794
xvart: Post-837
xvart: Post-852
Humble Poirot: Post-863
Humble Poirot: Post-886

And then the next mention is Charter's post about how I immediately brought up how KG was insane. But you are right, it is not something a townie would bring up. See any patterns in the above list of who mentioned it

In order to make me lynchable and to have my thoughts discounted, scum have to break the impression in the thread that KG got an innocent on me.

@HP. Yes, it does look a lot like KG's wagon except if you are going to accuse anyone of sheeping, then I'd have to be a sheep. q21 was the first to place a xvart vote. I was second.

Plus, I recall no one believing my thoughts on Sotty7 either at first. I recall some of the arguments being made that went sort of along the lines of "How can you think one of the least scummiest(or outright town) players so far could be scum?" or "So, we are just supposed to follow your gut because you are right?"

[xvart]

Oso - I totally see where you are coming from, because that is exactly (exactly) the same stance I had against diddin (there can't possibly be two protective roles on town side). But I implore you to go back and ISO me and ask yourself if you think I could pull off the shit I have pulled off this game as scum. Like I said, I wish I had the balls to play this way as scum. Every move I have made has been from a doctor perspective. Check my wiki for scum games and do a brief ISO skim of those games and see if they even come remotely close to this game. I know this post will be seen as AtE, AtI, Appeal to whatever, but it is all true.

More than likely, there is no way a scum member is going to hammer me because they know I will flip town and I doubt that both scum are on my wagon right now.

Oso - we lynch Vezok today and if he flips scum you're pretty much cleared. That leaves q21 and SSBF. You track one of them and I guarantee you won't die (as long as I am not the lynch). One of them will have to make the kill. If the person you track goes to the person who dies then we have the last scum. If that person goes no where and there is still a kill then it is the other person. The only problem is if they no kill that night, but that's okay too because we buy enough time to lynch both q21 and SSBF.

The only thing that is itching the back of my mind is that all three neighbors are town in this scenario, which makes the town more powerful; but again, I've never played with neighbors so I don't know how powerful mods consider the paranoia between neighbors. Does anyone know if neighbors are usually picked randomly or are they generally assigned?

xvart.

[totallynotmafia]

Vote count 4.2

Oso (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
charter (0)
xvart (3) q21, Oso, vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (2) Humble Poirot, xvart
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: charter, Super Smash Bros. Fan

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is September 5th, 2:00 PM (GMT + 10:00).

[Humble Poirot]

Oso is right. I was the one to to talk about sanities and still do.

But... I don't agree with either of you that sanity is something that town wouldn't consider.

In order to make me lynchable and to have my thoughts discounted, scum have to break the impression in the thread that KG got an innocent on me.

The thing is... It's not necessary to pay much attention to KG's inspection but to your playstyle so far. That has been way more proving of your alignment than anything else (Considering your relation with sotty).

@HP. Yes, it does look a lot like KG's wagon except if you are going to accuse anyone of sheeping, then I'd have to be a sheep. q21 was the first to place a xvart vote. I was second.

Yep, but q21's vote is just Hello, vote, goodbye, I don't care what you think. He let's you do the convincing.

Plus, I recall no one believing my thoughts on Sotty7 either at first. I recall some of the arguments being made that went sort of along the lines of "How can you think one of the least scummiest(or outright town) players so far could be scum?" or "So, we are just supposed to follow your gut because you are right?"

Allow me to remember you that the case on Sotty made no sense if you just predicted Jailkeeper had blocked him. Once you got the information from your track, new things had to be considered. Diddin could've either protected or blocked Sotty but Sotty (claiming RB) could've only blocked diddin. Considering there was no nightkill and that he had blocked diddin it made no sense from his POV and it was clear that he wasn't trying to get diddin. On the other hand, xvart always gave the impression of not believing diddin and trying to get him.

Look at xvart and look at vezok and tell me who's really town-motivated and who isn't.

And I promise you this... If (And I don't believe there's a chance of this) vezok doesn't flip scum I'm going to be the first one to vote xvart (and q21 can come and say I'm trying to remove every

claimed

role from the game yara, yara) but right now, I'm also sticking with it.

Also, good thing is, Oso won't die tomorrow if xvart is alive.

Vezok is totally going to kill Oso and blame someone else.

Gotta get some sleep, g'night.

HP

PS: I've got sigs and avatars disabled but I hope SSBF will come soon and tell us where he stands.

[Oso]

Ok, Ill go this far.

UNVOTE:

So far pretty much everyone has made their positions clear except SSBF. I'll relent enough so that xvart can't get hammered during the night because he is at L-1 (my real life night. I'm for bed here in a few).

[q21]

charter - I protected Oso last night.

SSBF - why did you wait so long to claim?

The fact that Vezok justifies a vote on Oso without including the fact that he is a claimed tracker is highly suspicious.

From my perspective,

confirmed not mafia players

include:
charter (this player slot has basically been ignored all game; why would he be trying to get involved if he was scum and could easily coast to end game?)
Humble (doc protected on N1, no kill N1, possible lynchee)
xvart (doctor, protected Humble N1, no NK N1)

Unconfirmed alignments:

vezok (watcher)
Oso (claimed tracker)
SSBF (claimed VT)
q21 (claimed VT)

We should lynch Vezok today. If he flips town (unlikely), Oso is scum, and gets lynched tomorrow in LYLO. Then we have to decide beteen q2t and SSBF for the remaining scum. Maybe I'll save someone again, which would then confirm another player (unless they target me and I don't protect myself). Or, I save Oso (pending Vezok scum flip) and he tracks either SSBF or q21 and we get a result or no result, then know who the remaining scum is.

Thoughts?

xvart.

xvart.

My problem reading this post and others dealing with this your 'plan' is that you don't seem to account for what happens if you die. As a town doctor that should be one of the fist things you consider. I get the idea of using Oso to choose between myself and SSBF if we got a vezok scumflip... but if that lynch doesn't hit scum... what then?

[xvart]

q21 - if the scum decide to NK me then that will confirm me as town doctor. I will have protected Oso (pending Vezok flipping scum). As long as Oso tracks someone tonight it doesn't matter if the scum NK me tonight or not because Oso will still have a result (or not result) but my suggested plan is still valid; and if I'm dead I trust the town to figure out the potential no kill dilemma on their own. If vezok flips town and I get NK'ed my suggestion would be to lynch Oso, since it is highly highly doubtful that the town has JK + cop + doctor + watcher + tracker.

xvart.

[charter]

Here it comes. The mafia trying to undermine a foolproof town win plan. So obvious Q21 is scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vezokpiraka's flip-flopping on his xvart read should be noted. #877, he claims that xvart's plays resembles town, that it had scums on his bandwagon, and that xvart was 90% townie. Now #891. He changes his view on xvart and it's really bad, even for a bad bandwagon like xvart's.

---

Opinion on the two major bandwagons:

Xvart:

I will not be happy with xvart's lynch. The main reason for the case on xvart is that two protection roles seems unlikely. I don't buy this as a good enough reason to vote him. Maybe two protection roles are unlikely, but what matters the most is the game play. Unless it's something like a cop getting a guilty on a person or a tracker being tracked to someone who killed a person, game play of a person should take priority. I think xvart is town.

vezokpiraka:

Best lynch of today, bar-none. While he may have a Watcher claim, that was the only thing that saved him from a lynch Day 2. We should not go lightly on him anymore just because of his claim. Just look at his play. He will not be benefitting the town much regardless of alignment, he is so scummy. For him to ride to a victory just because of the claim would be a shameful thing to do.

---

Your last question is fearmongering.
I really think you are scum now xvart.

I don't see how xvart's last question was scummy at all. You are strecthing this.

Vote: vezokpiraka

Yes I understand that I am putting him at L-1, but let me ask you this;

Which person is a better lynch?

A person who has been acting very scummy all game and will probably flip scum or a person who might be scum because two protection power roles sounds a bit much for a Mini Normal?

[Oso]

..
Oso - we lynch Vezok today and if he flips scum you're pretty much cleared. That leaves q21 and SSBF. You track one of them and I guarantee you won't die (as long as I am not the lynch). One of them will have to make the kill. If the person you track goes to the person who dies then we have the last scum. If that person goes no where and there is still a kill then it is the other person. The only problem is if they no kill that night, but that's okay too because we buy enough time to lynch both q21 and SSBF.
..

It is obvious that you are not getting lunched to day xvart. SSBF was pretty much the only person left who I had a hope of being swayed to your lynch. So, I'ma hold you to that.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

(If by some twist of fate, we are in LyLo right now, I'ma shit twice and die I think.)

[xvart]

(If by some twist of fate, we are in LyLo right now, I'ma shit twice and die I think.)

So will I.

xvart.

[charter]

I haven't really reread, but thinking about it some more, I'm pretty sure Vezo is scum. It's also bad how he watched XVart doing an action, but not a kill, and he still voted Xvart. It really doesn't make any sense.

I'll hammer, anyone want to say anything before night?

[q21]

He's already been hammered.

HP, xvart, SSBF, Oso.

[charter]

Oh.

So is he your scumbuddy?

[Humble Poirot]

I'm pleased by the current turn of events. I've been doing too much brief cell checking and not enough calm and joyful investigating.

SSBF bringing up 877 is spot on.

How vezok views somersaulted within a 2 post range makes me dizzy.

One important thing we might have to remember if/when vezok flips scum is how he mentioned ninja's and godfathers so much.

It is obvious that you are not getting

lunched

to day xvart

Gasp

...

Dude, you we're going to

eat

him? You should've told me sooner. I'd like to taste fried xvart!

[totallynotmafia]

Vote count 4.3

Oso (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
charter (0)
xvart (2) q21, vezokpiraka

vezokpiraka (4) Humble Poirot, xvart, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Oso

Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: charter

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is September 5th, 2:00 PM (GMT + 10:00).

A lynch has been decided on vezokpiraka.

[totallynotmafia]

Yay...ahem...I mean noooooo, not another senseless death of which I derive no pleasure whatsoever! Oh the humanity. Another sent to the gallows...well, I say gallows, but I've pretty much given up on the whole hanging thing, and I think it would be much more fun to shoot Vez with this bazooka anyway. What? It's what Vez would have wanted! Vezokpiraka lived his life so selflessly and dedicated so much of his time to others that he would want us to be thoroughly entertained by his death, and I'm sure that's what he would say today if we hadn't gagged him with duct tape. Besides, I've already payed the deposit on the bazooka, so no sense letting it go to waste.

*KABOOM*

Wow, the recoil on that was hectic. Wait, where did Vez go? And why is it raining all of a sudden? When there's no clouds in the sky? Oh gross...it's raining man! This is nowhere near as fun as The Weather Girls' 1982 smash hit made it out to be. Bugger, I only had this suit dry cleaned just the other day too. Spleen is

really

hard to get out.

Okay, well Vez's wallet is pretty much obliterated, so let's have a rummage through his house. I'll check his video collection, surely that will give us some clues. Let's see what we have here...The Godfather, The Godfather 2, The Godfather 3...well that clinches it, he must be mafia. Nobody sane would own a copy of The Godfather 3. Hmm...what else do we have here...looks like home videos, they're all labelled too: "quadz08 walking the dog", "KageLord putting the bins out", "Tazaro taking a whiz"....ohh...so Vezokpiraka was a filthy perv, spying on everybody in the town. There's hundreds of videos here, on pretty much everybody: "diddin eating a hotdog", "Sotty7 taking a shower...uhh I think I better take this one into...ah...evidence...yeah that's it. I better take these tissues into evidence too...they look pretty suspicious.

Vezokpiraka, Mafia Watcher, was lynched Day 4

Night 4 has begun, you have 72 hours to get in all night choices.

[totallynotmafia]

Why did the charter cross the road?

To get to the hospital on the other side because he was suffering from internal bleeding and severe brain haemorrhaging. So, breaking the news with a joke still doesn't work? Well, you probably had to be there. Trust me, it was high-larious.

Anyway, let's see what charter was:

*tastes charter's blood*

Hmm...tastes like vanilla...with a hint of diabetes. I guess charter was a vanilla townie too then. Okay, I better get this blood sample down to the lab. And by the lab, I mean kitchen. I'm making waffles!

charter, Vanilla Townie, was killed Night 4.

Day 5 has begun. Deadline is September 16th, 1:30 PM (GMT + 10:00). With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

[xvart]

So... jay was simply a lunatic? Oso, any results?

xvart.

[Humble Poirot]

From Cell:
I'd like to hear people's suspicions before Oso reveals his target.

xvart, q21, SSBF.

I'll post tomorrow from a decent keyboard.

[q21]

From Cell:
I'd like to hear people's suspicions before Oso reveals his target.

xvart, q21, SSBF.

I'll post tomorrow from a decent keyboard.

Why?

[Humble Poirot]

Why do you think?