Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, a meeting came up and more classes (I was able to quickly respond to my other games but not to this...)

But I will get back to you.

I just wanted to say that I am using that Ein picture for now on as a pseudo-FoS, IGMEOY or a "I'm waiting" type of post. So says I. =P

[Slaxx]

Alright, after rereading the thread and ISOs this is what I have got.

Lowell:

-Was on the Bub wagon
-Gives a lame excuse for voting me, practically admitting that he fell into a blatant WIFOM trap but says he will take the risk.
-Says he will catch up with reading on Xine, still no reply.
-Oddly enough, I agree with everything he says except his votes/FoSs on me. I wish Lowell would just give scum reads and town reads and give us something to work with. Its weird someone who is offering so little is not being harped on more, meaning either we have scum who know better than to lurker hunt or that Lowell is scum. I am still pretty sure Lowell is

town

based on what little content he has gave but more sure would be nice.
-Probably not scum also based on interactions with Bub

Both wagons are fine with me.

unvote, vote bub

This kind of flippant attitude is why you are always a suspect, Lowell. Care to explain why you don't care which wagon goes through?

Not much, but Bub wasn't exactly harsh or pressured too many people. He really only pressured CES, which in retrospect, was probably why CES got killed during the night.

Oso/Socrates:

-Seems frustrated about RVS ending early in first post
-Next 2 posts offer no content
-Next 3 posts make excuses for not posting content
-Completely ignores Bub and Bub wagon, never even comments on it except to ask a question to Parama which seemed to have a pretty obvious answer. Almost reads like "Uh....look guys! I acknowledged the wagon, see? I am not ignoring it but NO I will not take a stance on it".

Help me out and point to that? I've been going over Bub's posts. Some of them are big and I probably missed something you didn't.

^-Where he asks Charter to point out Bub's scumminess (Either buying time so he doesnt have to be on the wagon or just hoping it gets looked over).

@Parama, If I read your reasoning correctly, you think that Xine FOSed a scumbuddy and voted a townie. Then bub came in chainsaw defended a scumbuddy as well?

Pretty much the same exact thing.

Socrates, however, seems a bit more town than Oso, or at least a more inconspicuous scum. Honestly, I am not for sure about this read anymore. Probably

neutral

for now. I have read over Socrates ISO but I am not for sure I need more time to kind of make connections and process what he is saying and his stances on people.

Charter:

-Was on the Bub Wagon (Didn't really pressure Bub and only really voted him in association with me)
-Gives a crap ton of town reads
-Has been fairly consistent throughout the game except with his 180 on me which he explained
-I really don't think Charter is scum. He has been on every bandwagon today (Xine, WOMC, both who I think are probably town now) but so have I so who is to point fingers? I think both the bandwagons sprung up on them because they were looking really bad in association with Bub today. However, Lowell was correct in saying that the WOMC wagon felt kind of half ass. I was expecting WOMC to claim PR because I thought he was either scum or PR, so the vanilla townie claim took me a bit by surprise. Speaking of which

unvote

if I haven't already. Anyway, I digress. Charter is probably

town .

Parama:

-Was on the Bub Wagon
-Huge back and forths with Bub
-Bub voted for him yesterday along with Xine
-Has been on all of today's wagons if I recall correctly.

Not much else to say, really.

Town

for all the interactions he had with Bub yesterday, and as Lowell said, for paying more attention.

xvart:

-Voted Xine, not Bub
-Definitely a read that has changed for me. Bub and xvart ignored each other the entire day, and out of all the stuff xvart addressed, he never once addressed Bub's wagon. He addresses Bub's posting style, and Bub jokingly answers back, but other than that, no contact is made. This doesn't bode well for Xvart, and I am pretty sure he isn't townie any more. I just fail to see how someone who took time to address almost everyone conveniently left out the day's biggest bandwagon that happened to be scum. Bub also failed to acknowledge xvart at all either.

Probable scum

. Bye bye town read.

Vote: xvart

.

Xine:

-Reading her in ISO, her claim is starting to feel legit. In her very first post she says I am leading the town (not really but whatever, the point of this is she is consistent with what she says) and even goes as far as to say "Slaxx is definitely setting trends in this game, I will be watching him, and other people’s reactions to him carefully".
-I'm starting to find that her chainsaw to boberz in defense of Bub might have actually just been a bit of Tunneling townie. At the same time she asks Bub if he has a point to any of his questions, and I don't think Bub ever responds. Whether he ignored it because he knows she is a scum buddy or just because he doesn't care is hard to tell. Everything else to be said I have already said here. I am putting my neck on the cutting board to defend her but I really do think she has a good shot at being real. Probably town, which also means probably

Tracker

.

WOMC:

-Was the leader on the Bub wagon after I took my vote off. I felt at the time the vote was halfhearted, and something felt off. This caused me to do a 180 and think Bub might be town and Weapons was trying to find a non Boberz wagon to be on. However later Bub started to get even worse which once again led me to believe that Bub was scum. I don't feel right about this initial vote, because it still seems kind of vague and sheepish, so it could very well still be bussing. We'll se as I get farther into WOMC's ISO.
-As Parama said, interactions with Bub probably make this guy town, but still a fairly scummy townie. I want to put him in a town category but quotes like this :

So you think there are 4 scum? How common is this for 12 player setups?

kind of make me feel waffly on him. Kind of like he is intentionally playing dumb here. For now

Neutral.

DH and Boberz are going to take a bit more time, but before I do ISOs I am pretty sure DH is town and I will have to look at Bob.

[Slaxx]

If I had to throw out two FoSs right now I would say xvart/Socrates.

Because of this

Good points all around the table.

DH, WOMD, what do you guys think about Xine or Oso/Socrates?

I think 2 out of Xine, Boberz, and Oso/Socrates are last scum, but I have to be honest, I am least suspicious of boberz. I will probably read more thoroughly this weekend.

Why Oso/Socrates? This is the first time you have even typed Oso's name. What happened overnight? You think the good points all around (about boberz) is only enough to make him the least suspicious of your scum grouping?

Partly because it seems like he had been keeping tabs on WHO FoSd Oso (even if he didn't do it well). His tone is almost defensive and frustrated in the post.

xvart

: From my RVS you might get the impression I like playing mafia with him. You'd be right but he remains neutral. Thinking out loud here but, like Charter, I like the direction his thinking seems to be going in.

I think Xvart had been giving strong stances and warranted more of a strong read by that point in time. Its almost like "lol my scum buddies coming up guess I will throw him in neutral".

[Nicodemus]

Vote Count 2.05

WeaponsofMassConstruction

(3): Socrates, charter, DemonHybrid

Slaxx

(3): Xine, Lowell, xvart

Xine

(1): WeaponsofMassConstruction

xvart

(1): Slaxx

Not Voting:

boberz, Parama

6

to lynch.

Deadline for D2 can be found here

[Parama]

Hmm, I agree with your points on xvart but I want to read him in ISO myself first.

[charter]

Alright, going to reread Weapons v Bub....

unvote

[xvart]

1. I post the question
2. I thought about what I asked and what I would expect her to say as town/scum and realize the town answer is obvious
3. She says the response that makes sense in a real tracker's mindset (Voting me because I softclaimed PR when she had a NV on me)
4. Even though the answer is obvious it wasnt what I was expecting from her as scum so it makes me rethink things (Yes that was a stab at her playing strength)

I dont get the fakeness.

What fakeness? I think what I was possibly misreading was the time line. I read your original post as you asked the question to check to see if she would provide the town response you had in mind; which was confusing since you said didn't realize the question was so obvious until after you posted it. That, in addition to the rapid fire responses, made it seem like you were falsely justifying the reason you asked the question to begin with.

Unvote

So you think there are 4 scum? How common is this for 12 player setups?

Where did you get this suggestion?

Cool.

I claim vanilla townie if it matters.

Why did you feel the need to claim now? This is interesting since it comes right after talk of directing the tracker.

xvart, what do you think of WOMC?

Slightly scummy. I had a fairly neutral read of him until he claimed VT out of the blue. I want to know why he claimed and why he claimed at that point in the game.

xvart:

-Voted Xine, not Bub
-Definitely a read that has changed for me. Bub and xvart ignored each other the entire day, and out of all the stuff xvart addressed, he never once addressed Bub's wagon. He addresses Bub's posting style, and Bub jokingly answers back, but other than that, no contact is made. This doesn't bode well for Xvart, and I am pretty sure he isn't townie any more. I just fail to see how someone who took time to address almost everyone conveniently left out the day's biggest bandwagon that happened to be scum. Bub also failed to acknowledge xvart at all either.

Probable scum

. Bye bye town read.

Vote: xvart

.

I wasn't on the Bub wagon because I never really thought he was scummier than the people I was most suspicious of. In all honesty, without rereading back I really don't remember why everyone thought Bub was scummy.

Partly because it seems like he had been keeping tabs on WHO FoSd Oso (even if he didn't do it well). His tone is almost defensive and frustrated in the post.

It's not that I keep tabs on FoSes, but rather I pay greater attention to people I think are likely scum. When reading your post and thinking about your suspect pool I didn't recall you saying much about Oso previously. I then ISO'ed the wrong person and saw Bobz hadn't said anything about Oso, and posted that about you. If I was trying to build a phony case just to get you lynched then I did it very, very poorly; but I'll leave that judgement up to everyone else as to whether or not I would be so flagrant about phony case building.

---

I'm starting to lean back towards lynching Xine. I'm going to read Boberz, Xine, and WOMC again before I replace my vote.

xvart.

[Socrates]

I'm not seeing how WOMC and Bub's interactions don't fit within scum distancing.

If WOMC is scum, then DH is almost certainly his scum buddy, but if WOMC is town, then nothing less than a cop investigation would get me to vote DH.

The discussion of Xine's claim is reminding me of this post by Ythill (Ythill is Xine's husband, unless I am mistaken.) Particularly the last point. In my mind, the claim is mostly null.

Charter, I find it weird that you are considering letting Xine live when I have vivid memories of you stubbornly refusing to let a cop claim live on the grounds of information, especially considering how much weaker a tracker is than a cop.

Slaxx is doing way more work than he would need to be doing if he was scum. Yea yea effort =/= protown, I don't care.

[charter]

I don't lynch people for information. I pushed hard for that lynch because he was scum, his claim was bullshit, and I was sure he was scum. Here, I'm not as sure.

I reread Weapons and Bub. Weapons comes off slightly good, I didn't get much from Bub's posts.

To be honest, Xine and Socrates are the two scummiest. I really think that both of them are scum.

vote xine

[Slaxx]

Charter, I beg of you to read my Xvart case.

[charter]

Ah, I didn't reread him, give me a minute. Who did you think was his buddy?

[charter]

Off the top of my head, I could see Soc and Xvart, since Soc is just being generically scummy.

[Slaxx]

Soc/Oso

[charter]

Doing my own little mini case on Xvart..

206, @Slaxx "If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?" That's incrediscummy seeing as how Bub was scum. He sets up an attack on Slaxx regardless of Bub's alignment. Wondering how I missed that, and now I see his post is like 3000 words so I never read it.

Pretty short case, I think that's the only time he says Bub's name. That's unfortunate for him seeing as Bub was scum.

I also don't see a single mention of him by Bub. I think that's pretty good work Slaxx.

vote Xvart

[charter]

Also, I'm not changing my vote any more today.

[Socrates]

I don't lynch people for information. I pushed hard for that lynch because he was scum, his claim was bullshit, and I was sure he was scum. Here, I'm not as sure.

I know you don't. Thats why I thought post 457 was weird.

Off the top of my head, I could see Soc and Xvart, since Soc is just being generically scummy.

Anything for me defend against?

I could see myself on the Xvart wagon if WOMC has officially stalled.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

I need to do a bunch of reading and figure out what the hell is going on around here. There's been suspicion on nearly every person.

[Xine]

Modify it:
In the event that today's lynch flips town, track random.
In the event that today's lynch flips scum, track <playername> or else.

This was what I was thinking myself, glad to see we are on the same page.
I have definitely found Charter's overwhelming desire to lynch pre-claim a bit scummy, especially considering his input when Bub was at L-1, that he was very busy, but takes the time to question the wagon itself. I will do some meta research on him tomorrow, but for now
VOTE: Charter
Socrates continues to make a strong case that I am neutral seems particularly strange to me, and the fact that he quoted Ythill in that argument is definitely extremely odd too. He continues to be my second suspect.
I am intrigued by the Xvart case, and will look into him in iso tomorrow as well.
non game relevant stuff,
Xine=Christine=female, good observation, have you been reading guys part 2?
I don't care personally if anyone thinks I am male, if anyone feels like apologizing for it, do so to DH, who is bothered by it
One more thing, since it's come out that I'm new, I would like to compliment this player group, I am learning a lot from you, thanks

[Slaxx]

I know my opinion doesn't matter, especially considering you think I am mafia, but I reallllly don't think Charter is scum.

[Xine]

I will look into it,
Soc or Charter, could you maybe post a link to the game you were discussing earlier?
speaking of thinking you may be scum, you seem to have "slipped" twice, but most of your play seems townie, I guess meta reaseach on you should be on my imediate to do list as well. you are my #3 pick at this moment

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

New thoughts tomorrow; have been caught up elsewhere.

[xvart]

206, @Slaxx "If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?" That's incrediscummy seeing as how Bub was scum. He sets up an attack on Slaxx regardless of Bub's alignment. Wondering how I missed that, and now I see his post is like 3000 words so I never read it.

The "attack" on Slaxx has absolutely nothing to do with Bub's alignment. It has to do entirely with questioning someone who says someone is town in one post and in the very next post votes that person. That doesn't seem right to me, which is why I questioned it. Are there times when the protown play is to name someone as town and then vote them? Can you explain the circumstances that might warrant such a play?

xvart.

[Slaxx]

Xvart, I know this isn't the point you're making, but I unvoted Bub in that post regardless.

[Slaxx]

Speaking of which

unvote: bub bidderskins

for now.

[Lowell]

xvart, what do you think of WOMC?
boberz, what do you think of Slaxx?
Lowell, what do you think of Xine?

Xine is scum. I read back to the original case and I'm sold that the interaction between her and bub is damning, and the tracker claim doesn't impress. Still I agree that since we're more or less in control so far, it's dumb to lynch her yet in the offchance that she's telling the truth.

In other news, weapons and demon are both town, but only demon earns more coveted "townpoints"... weapons just got lucky his role PM bailed him out.

I'm starting to waver on slaxx. He's been useful of late, more or less. I'd like to persue a wagon that isn't weapons/slaxx/xine today, but if I have to choose I'm staying with slaxx. I'll look back through.