Open 253: Sea Container C9++ [GAME OVER]

[jmj3000]

Hey SA, you seem to forget that I replaced out practically at the beginning of the game. Nice try, but try harder.

[jmj3000]

Oh, I watched it, but none of it was my doing... except maybe night 1. The rest was Reaper

[jmj3000]

Right now, there isnt, but you are trying to take a game I had replaced out of, and trying to build a case on it.

[jmj3000]

It means everything, because there is nothing in that game to go off of for me. I also lurked most of day 1 due to unforeseen circumstances. Therefore, there is not enough evidence to support your case. Why don't you try looking at games I actually played in if you are going to target me, and stop making a flawed case.

[jmj3000]

If I was scum, I would have left Furc alive solely because of HP Mafia, because he had problems convincing the town to lynch his reads.

[jmj3000]

If I was scum, I would have left Furc alive solely because of HP Mafia, because he had problems convincing the town to lynch his reads.

Now now, 'would have' arguments lead to very dark places with bad mistakes.

Its no worse than SA saying me watching a game when I knew the scum team makes me scum.

[jmj3000]

It is how the set-up is determined.

[jmj3000]

Dude, moth, you just have to look at the set-up to see why a mass-claim is terrible. I could see mentioning mass-claim later in the game, but bringing it up this early smells of fishing. SA, your argument is I killed furc because of a game I was watching that I knew the scum team and he mentions 2 of them in passing until after he died then he started to realize what the rest of town was failing to notice. Mafuyu, I am not making a silly of myself, I am defending myself against a weak case.

[jmj3000]

Oh, I almost forgot. Mongoose, quit your active lurking. You saying people need to post more without adding anything yourself until prompted is scummy also.

[jmj3000]

Ok SA, here goes. You start off accusing me of killing furc because of harry potter mafia. You say I did it because he named the scum team day 1. Once I replaced out I had no stake in that game. He got lucky in that game when he named the scum team. He also got unlucky when town believed reaper based on flavor alone. Even as confirmed town, he couldn't convince town. I didn't even know he had named the scum team since he did it day one when I wasn't around. Honestly, I think you killed furc just to set up this "case" on me. You also keep saying you aren't metaing my play. Referring to any past game of mine is using meta. As for my posts this game, I have had no choice but be on the defensive because you keep attacking me.

[jmj3000]

mongoose, wrong game >.>

[jmj3000]

the deadline is coming up and we don't have time to argue in circles.

I'm an active player who will be here to help lynch. Let's wagon someone who isn't.

... OH hai scum.

vote: SA

Lets see. Trying to push a wagon with deadline being the main reason for it? Check. Trying to scare people onto the wagon? Check. Trying to push a lynch on someone who apparently is't here to defend themselves? Check.

[jmj3000]

Ok, i am going to re-read the thread and see what I can come up with, as my top suspicion was wrong. Away I go.

[jmj3000]

This post is going to contain questions that cropped up as I was going to sleep and reviewing ISO's of everyone, so I might have more questions in the morning.

@Andrew:

Oh my god quit squirming.
First, WIFOM is not asking "what if." It's circular reasoning and questions that can't be proven one way or the other. The kind that gets nobody nowhere and only chews up time.
Second, it's not your job to instruct the town who to lynch, regardless of how close the deadline is. It's up to the players to make their own decisions, and trying to get in the way of that is anti-town, if not flat-out scummy.
Third, derp I can't get suspicion off of me so I'll try to get suspicion onto an easy-target lurker.
Fourth, derp don't lynch me cuz I'm a power role.
Fifth, #139 is closer to WIFOM than how you defined it. "I can't be scum because if I was scum I wouldn't have claimed roleblocker." Well we only know that based on your words.
Sixth, just because nobody should out themselves doesn't mean that you're not hoping that someone would be reckless enough to.
And lastly, two double posts followed by a triple post seems to me like you're grasping at straws to get away from the spotlight.

We're at L-2 right? I want to make sure I have my count right before I vote.

o man, this is one of those posts that look town but is in fact scummy, i have no idea how to describe this

Why did you find that post by blakadder scummy andrew?

You contribute by, for instance, saying who you suspect. Consider yourself added to the above list, andrew94. Who do you suspect today? Even if it's the same as yesterday, vote accordingly.

And no, Nexus never said that. Please read the game.

ok. i make suspoect list when i go home


u misunderstand me. i believe a2rude said 'HE HAD TO GO LURK' - not referring to nexus?

Wheres that suspect list andrew?

@Mothrax:

Massclaim horse is dead, going to stop beating it.

Why would he have drawn so much attention to himself if he was scum?

:Scum wouldn't do this so I can't be scum" is not a valid defense.

Explain why you contradicted yourself mothrax.

If that is not an option, I think I am down with a mongoose lynch. his reaction to the massclaim argument was scummy, on top of the fact that he is pushing a lurker lynch;

Why was my reaction scummy?

Moth, answer this.
@a2rudeboy:

vote:nexus

"i'm just going to take some time off and lurk for a while..."

Hypocrisy much? Sadly, thats really all I can get out of your ISO right now. Post more content, less filler.

@Alduskkel:

OTOH I'm curious to see if SA will get NK'd or not.

Prophetic words sir. Why mention him getting NK'd at all?

@BlakAdder:

To be honest, I'm a little surprised at the night kill. I know SA claimed Roleblocker, but he was tied for most votes at the end of the day. I guess the claim can excuse the NK target, but it seems that he would be most likely to draw a doc protect too. Something about the kill rubs me the wrong way, but I can't actually draw anything from it without stepping into WIFOM territory. Anyone else have any comments?

Why does it rub you the wrong way? NK analysis is important, even if it goes into WIFOM territory, but I have a feeling I know what that WIFOM is.

@Looker:
You are getting a pass due to replacing, but the moment you start posting more, I am going to ask you for you speculation on katsuki's actions

@Mafuyu:

Hey guys, scumbuddies arguing, making sillies of themselves to start the day?

Ey? Eeeeyyy?

Why did you see me and SA as scumbuddies arguing? Knowing SA was town, how does that affect your reads?

well i played newbie for long time.

can someone explain this :I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

Oh, you'd be surprised.
There are cases where town does not see the pro-town side, for any number of reasons.
There are cases where scum DOES see the pro-town side, significantly because it is their job to read the game to a degree sufficient enough to A. Dispel suspicion and B. Redirect suspicion to town. To not know the town rationale would be to be forced in to playing the ignorant town role, which one can only get away with for so long. To manipulate, you have to know what cards are on the table.

That is to say, 'X is less likely to see pro-town result/interpretation' is null in that diligent people are trying to read however they can, and non-diligent people are scattered in to a myriad number of reasons why they aren't.

This post confuses me. Clarify please?

@Mongoose:

sorry I haven't been posting guys. I tend not to post too much in the start of games since RVS usually reflects a person's characteristics and not their role,

so I can't really find too many reads.

And I forgot to check the thread today. :p

Anyways,

unvote, vote mothrax

First off, mass claim was a stupid idea. Not only that, but you were extremely indecisive. From what I know that tends to be a way to try to get something done (for the scum team), then claim you never really vouched for it. Also, your logic is slightly wrong, as katsu explained. I dont really see any other scummy reads right now though.

I don't like this post. First off, there wasn't really a RVS seeing as how SA came right out of the gate with a case prepared and everything, and discussion immediately started. Second, the bolding I did. You can still analyze their posts and compare it with meta, or analyze their posts and see if they are just going through the motions. This sounds like you making an excuse to not do anything. Third, jumping on the mothrax wagon like you did. One line that is not using someone else's logic does not make it original content. Fourth, by that time everyone had weighed in on either me/SA or the massclaim idea, there was plenty of information to look at to come up with scum reads.

I will be v/la starting thursday, and ending on the following sunday for Dasara holidays (from the 7th til the 16th). i may be able to post when I am at my cousin's houses, but during some periods I may not have internet access.

err nexus, you have contributed next to nothing except for 'im v/la'

QFT. Do something useful please. Saying one post was meaningless isn't helpful. The fact that someone posted a "meaningless" post doesn't make them town or scum.

I agree with mafuyu in the fact that different people see different sides when having different roles. The assumption we make is that you are more likely to see the side you are allied on, however this may not be true. In fact< i wouldn't hesitate to say it is uncommon for a person not to be able to see both sides, so I think most of this discussion is rather pointless.

Also, mothrax confused the hell out of me with his post. The fact that you saw both sides could go either way. If you are scum and you see many pro and anti town things, you could try to use that to your advantage by saying it can be pro town too.

Still nothing truly original from you in this post. Reading through the last two paragraphs, all I can see is Alduskkel's words being modified so you can't be accused of blatant copying.

@Nexus:

I was not happy with a no lynch, and I would've been happy with the lynch on Katsuki. I'd be interested to know why she replaced.

Anyway, I'll relieve some pressure a bit, and let the replacement get into the game, and see what happens.

So why didn't you post a more convincing case than she posts in all caps and just post votes? Why not give us some meta to compare it to?


Alright, sorry for the wall, but I needed to get something up with my thoughts before I went to sleep. Any questions to be directed at me will be answered when i get a chance later today.

[jmj3000]

EBWOP: Also, mongoose, get an avatar. May I suggest this one or this one or maybe this one?

[jmj3000]

This post is going to contain questions that cropped up as I was going to sleep and reviewing ISO's of everyone, so I might have more questions in the morning.

@Andrew:

Oh my god quit squirming.
First, WIFOM is not asking "what if." It's circular reasoning and questions that can't be proven one way or the other. The kind that gets nobody nowhere and only chews up time.
Second, it's not your job to instruct the town who to lynch, regardless of how close the deadline is. It's up to the players to make their own decisions, and trying to get in the way of that is anti-town, if not flat-out scummy.
Third, derp I can't get suspicion off of me so I'll try to get suspicion onto an easy-target lurker.
Fourth, derp don't lynch me cuz I'm a power role.
Fifth, #139 is closer to WIFOM than how you defined it. "I can't be scum because if I was scum I wouldn't have claimed roleblocker." Well we only know that based on your words.
Sixth, just because nobody should out themselves doesn't mean that you're not hoping that someone would be reckless enough to.
And lastly, two double posts followed by a triple post seems to me like you're grasping at straws to get away from the spotlight.

We're at L-2 right? I want to make sure I have my count right before I vote.

o man, this is one of those posts that look town but is in fact scummy, i have no idea how to describe this

Why did you find that post by blakadder scummy andrew?

You contribute by, for instance, saying who you suspect. Consider yourself added to the above list, andrew94. Who do you suspect today? Even if it's the same as yesterday, vote accordingly.

And no, Nexus never said that. Please read the game.

ok. i make suspoect list when i go home


u misunderstand me. i believe a2rude said 'HE HAD TO GO LURK' - not referring to nexus?

Wheres that suspect list andrew?

@Mothrax:

Massclaim horse is dead, going to stop beating it.

Why would he have drawn so much attention to himself if he was scum?

:Scum wouldn't do this so I can't be scum" is not a valid defense.

Explain why you contradicted yourself mothrax.

If that is not an option, I think I am down with a mongoose lynch. his reaction to the massclaim argument was scummy, on top of the fact that he is pushing a lurker lynch;

Why was my reaction scummy?

Moth, answer this.
@a2rudeboy:

vote:nexus

"i'm just going to take some time off and lurk for a while..."

Hypocrisy much? Sadly, thats really all I can get out of your ISO right now. Post more content, less filler.

@Alduskkel:

OTOH I'm curious to see if SA will get NK'd or not.

Prophetic words sir. Why mention him getting NK'd at all?

@BlakAdder:

To be honest, I'm a little surprised at the night kill. I know SA claimed Roleblocker, but he was tied for most votes at the end of the day. I guess the claim can excuse the NK target, but it seems that he would be most likely to draw a doc protect too. Something about the kill rubs me the wrong way, but I can't actually draw anything from it without stepping into WIFOM territory. Anyone else have any comments?

Why does it rub you the wrong way? NK analysis is important, even if it goes into WIFOM territory, but I have a feeling I know what that WIFOM is.

@Looker:
You are getting a pass due to replacing, but the moment you start posting more, I am going to ask you for you speculation on katsuki's actions

@Mafuyu:

Hey guys, scumbuddies arguing, making sillies of themselves to start the day?

Ey? Eeeeyyy?

Why did you see me and SA as scumbuddies arguing? Knowing SA was town, how does that affect your reads?

well i played newbie for long time.

can someone explain this :I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

Oh, you'd be surprised.
There are cases where town does not see the pro-town side, for any number of reasons.
There are cases where scum DOES see the pro-town side, significantly because it is their job to read the game to a degree sufficient enough to A. Dispel suspicion and B. Redirect suspicion to town. To not know the town rationale would be to be forced in to playing the ignorant town role, which one can only get away with for so long. To manipulate, you have to know what cards are on the table.

That is to say, 'X is less likely to see pro-town result/interpretation' is null in that diligent people are trying to read however they can, and non-diligent people are scattered in to a myriad number of reasons why they aren't.

This post confuses me. Clarify please?

@Mongoose:

sorry I haven't been posting guys. I tend not to post too much in the start of games since RVS usually reflects a person's characteristics and not their role,

so I can't really find too many reads.

And I forgot to check the thread today. :p

Anyways,

unvote, vote mothrax

First off, mass claim was a stupid idea. Not only that, but you were extremely indecisive. From what I know that tends to be a way to try to get something done (for the scum team), then claim you never really vouched for it. Also, your logic is slightly wrong, as katsu explained. I dont really see any other scummy reads right now though.

I don't like this post. First off, there wasn't really a RVS seeing as how SA came right out of the gate with a case prepared and everything, and discussion immediately started. Second, the bolding I did. You can still analyze their posts and compare it with meta, or analyze their posts and see if they are just going through the motions. This sounds like you making an excuse to not do anything. Third, jumping on the mothrax wagon like you did. One line that is not using someone else's logic does not make it original content. Fourth, by that time everyone had weighed in on either me/SA or the massclaim idea, there was plenty of information to look at to come up with scum reads.

I will be v/la starting thursday, and ending on the following sunday for Dasara holidays (from the 7th til the 16th). i may be able to post when I am at my cousin's houses, but during some periods I may not have internet access.

err nexus, you have contributed next to nothing except for 'im v/la'

QFT. Do something useful please. Saying one post was meaningless isn't helpful. The fact that someone posted a "meaningless" post doesn't make them town or scum.

I agree with mafuyu in the fact that different people see different sides when having different roles. The assumption we make is that you are more likely to see the side you are allied on, however this may not be true. In fact< i wouldn't hesitate to say it is uncommon for a person not to be able to see both sides, so I think most of this discussion is rather pointless.

Also, mothrax confused the hell out of me with his post. The fact that you saw both sides could go either way. If you are scum and you see many pro and anti town things, you could try to use that to your advantage by saying it can be pro town too.

Still nothing truly original from you in this post. Reading through the last two paragraphs, all I can see is Alduskkel's words being modified so you can't be accused of blatant copying.

@Nexus:

I was not happy with a no lynch, and I would've been happy with the lynch on Katsuki. I'd be interested to know why she replaced.

Anyway, I'll relieve some pressure a bit, and let the replacement get into the game, and see what happens.

So why didn't you post a more convincing case than she posts in all caps and just post votes? Why not give us some meta to compare it to?


Alright, sorry for the wall, but I needed to get something up with my thoughts before I went to sleep. Any questions to be directed at me will be answered when i get a chance later today.

It is a lot easier for me to quote that post and tell y'all to ignore it if you have already answered the questions directed at you. I'm on my phone,but expect a better post tomorrow sometime when I wake up.

[jmj3000]

@Andrew:

You contribute by, for instance, saying who you suspect. Consider yourself added to the above list, andrew94. Who do you suspect today? Even if it's the same as yesterday, vote accordingly.

And no, Nexus never said that. Please read the game.

ok. i make suspoect list when i go home


u misunderstand me. i believe a2rude said 'HE HAD TO GO LURK' - not referring to nexus?

Wheres that suspect list andrew?

@a2rudeboy:

vote:nexus

"i'm just going to take some time off and lurk for a while..."

Hypocrisy much? Sadly, thats really all I can get out of your ISO right now. Post more content, less filler.

@havingfitz:

Hey guys, scumbuddies arguing, making sillies of themselves to start the day?

Ey? Eeeeyyy?

Why did you see me and SA as scumbuddies arguing? Knowing SA was town, how does that affect your reads?

well i played newbie for long time.

can someone explain this :I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

Oh, you'd be surprised.
There are cases where town does not see the pro-town side, for any number of reasons.
There are cases where scum DOES see the pro-town side, significantly because it is their job to read the game to a degree sufficient enough to A. Dispel suspicion and B. Redirect suspicion to town. To not know the town rationale would be to be forced in to playing the ignorant town role, which one can only get away with for so long. To manipulate, you have to know what cards are on the table.

That is to say, 'X is less likely to see pro-town result/interpretation' is null in that diligent people are trying to read however they can, and non-diligent people are scattered in to a myriad number of reasons why they aren't.

This post confuses me. Can I get speculation as to your predecessor's thoughts?

@Mongoose:

I will be v/la starting thursday, and ending on the following sunday for Dasara holidays (from the 7th til the 16th). i may be able to post when I am at my cousin's houses, but during some periods I may not have internet access.

err nexus, you have contributed next to nothing except for 'im v/la'

QFT. Do something useful please. Saying one post was meaningless isn't helpful. The fact that someone posted a "meaningless" post doesn't make them town or scum.

I agree with mafuyu in the fact that different people see different sides when having different roles. The assumption we make is that you are more likely to see the side you are allied on, however this may not be true. In fact< i wouldn't hesitate to say it is uncommon for a person not to be able to see both sides, so I think most of this discussion is rather pointless.

Also, mothrax confused the hell out of me with his post. The fact that you saw both sides could go either way. If you are scum and you see many pro and anti town things, you could try to use that to your advantage by saying it can be pro town too.

Still nothing truly original from you in this post. Reading through the last two paragraphs, all I can see is Alduskkel's words being modified so you can't be accused of blatant copying.

@Nexus:

I was not happy with a no lynch, and I would've been happy with the lynch on Katsuki. I'd be interested to know why she replaced.

Anyway, I'll relieve some pressure a bit, and let the replacement get into the game, and see what happens.

So why didn't you post a more convincing case than she posts in all caps and just post votes? Why not give us some meta to compare it to?


Alright, sorry for the wall, but I needed to get something up with my thoughts before I went to sleep. Any questions to be directed at me will be answered when i get a chance later today.

Yes andrew, I left my question to you in there for a reason. You gave a suspect, not a suspect list. All I see is a mention of mothrax and katsuki, but the only one you bring any sort of case against is mothrax, and it is a weak one at that.

[jmj3000]

ok, i think that morthrax and katsuki is scum .
because morthrax accuse katsuki, is a weak attempt at bussing.

then he says 'i dont go after replacements' again a weak attempt at stopping the bussing

and well, so i find the relevant quote later

So andrew, you want to stick to the story that you didn't mention katsuki?

[jmj3000]

Nitpicking? I caught andrew in a lie. Also, I sat there and said his case was flawed, pointed out why, and he proceeded to use a different version of the exact same case. Every single one of my posts for about half of day one was sitting there, showing him why his case was wrong. I'm not desperately trying to discredit him, he had "changed" his case, but it was the same BS as before, just with a different suit on. Therefore, I had to continue showing him the error in his case. Post 36 is WIFOM, but I honestly would have left furc alive. SA was the one that started the WIFOM, not I. Also, active lurking? In 4 days, I had 8 posts, and while you may view them as noise, Every single one was an attempt to get SA to stop tunneling on me with a poor case. As to SA preventing me from scumhunting: I never said he was preventing me from scumhunting, those are YOUR words. I said I had to choice but to be defensive because he kept attacking me. Also, you seem to have not noticed post 56 where I state that moth asking for a MC on day 1 smells of fishing.

You are going to hate me for this AH, but I am about to point you towards my wiki. Go look at any game where someone attacked me THAT IS COMPLETE. Then compare it to this game and let me know if you see any similarities. Go on, I'll be up and waiting.

[jmj3000]

No andrew, you never said it slipped your mind. You say flat out you didn't mention katsuki. Trying to backtrack to cover your mistake?

[jmj3000]

I am giving andrew a chance to defend himself. If he doesn't to my satisfaction in time, then I will vote.

[jmj3000]

If you flip Inoocent Child, then some glare will be at the mod.

[jmj3000]

A mod-confirmed townie. The mod is either supposed to announce the innocent child at the beginning of the game, or put a clause in the innocent child's role pm saying that they may ask the mod to confirm them at any time.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... cent_Child

[jmj3000]

Wait, so being away the last 12 hours, when the wagon had been building on for for way longer than that, stopped you from getting the mod to confirm you? Yeah, no, not buying it scum.

[jmj3000]

Really? Absolutely no reason to not believe andrew when he is claiming a role that can be mod-confirmed, and claiming that he didn't have the mod confirm him because he wasn't there for 12 hours, when he could have had the mod confirm him any number of days before? Also, did you not notice that I did not vote at all yesterday? Either we have different definitions of bussing, or you are throwing any accusation at me to see what sticks.

[jmj3000]

Actually, to the best of my knowledge, I have never played a game with him. I had absolutely no idea what to expect. Now if you will excuse me, I have to get ready to go work a haunted forest.

[jmj3000]

Here, let me walk you all through why jmj3000 needs to be the lynch today.

Post 15: Immediate dismissiveness without any other thoughts. This looks like scum overreaction to me.
Post 28: I think this is the 3rd post in a row where he desperately tries to discredit SA without adding anything new (yeah, I know it's page 2, but why is jmj trying so hard to fight this thought that SA threw out there? Does this conversation say anything about SA's, or anyone else's, alignment? jmj doesn't say)
Post 36: This is classic WIFOM.
Post 58: jmj telling anyone to stop actively lurking is pretty hypocritical to me.
Post 91: Yeah, SA is preventing you from scumhunting.
Post 220: OK......... so what conclusions have you drawn so far even without the answer? This is a giant fencesit.
Post 322: Nitpicking much?

Conclusion: jmj has just been defending himself+active lurking this whole game and now he's trying to nitpick his way onto an andrew lynch.

antihero its 1 day to the deadline ..

We have 24 hours still. 4 votes in that that timeframe isn't unreasonable.

COME ON, PEOPLE.

I am going to go up this list of my posts backwards.

Post 322, I point out where andrew had lied when he said this:

firstly jmj i didnt mention katsuki? i mentioned blak and morthax.
ur case on morthax is exacgtly the same as mine (i wrote it first)


antihero its 1 day to the deadline ..

Nitpicking it was not. It was me saying "Hey, he said this here, and is now saying he never said that. Lie/Contradiction right there."

Post 220 is where I first posted my list of questions to multiple players. I had not drawn any conclusions except those people I had asked were scummy in my eyes.

As for post 91, I blatantly say I have been defending myself because SA refused to drop his shoddy case. If he had dropped it after I refuted it so many times, it wouldn't have been going on for so long. As it was, that shoddy case and mothrax asking about mass-claim were the only two things that had happened so far at that point. I had already given my thoughts on the mass-claim, and was returning to who I viewed as scum because of that case, SA. As a matter of fact, I had stated I found SA scummy when he kept pushing the case on me.

Post 58, I was not active lurking. I had been active in the game and giving insights. I was not being prompted to give any content. Mongoose was having to be prompted to add anything.

As to post 36, I don't give a flying rat's behind what you think of that post, I knew it was WIFOM the moment I posted. However, I also posted the truth. I had seen enough of Furc's play in HP mafia to realize he would have been perfect to leave around, because he has trouble convincing people to lynch his reads.

Post 28, the only thing that had happened was SA's case on me. I wasn't going to let a shoddy case like that go, so I proceeded to keep attacking the case.

Post 15, what the hell else did you expect? Me to go "Oh, he's right?" Uh, how about no. I know my role, and I knew that case was wrong, so I dismissed it as RVS antics. When he kept on with it, I proceeded to refute every piece of evidence, at which point he would change the evidence around to paint me in a scum light.

Also, I like how you pick 7 posts out of my ISO and use them to paint me in a scum light. It isn't working, but good try.

[jmj3000]

I am, I am just waiting for antihero to address my rebuttals to his points in my last post. He is the second player who has refused to acknowledge any rebuttals I have made and continued to push a case against me that I have disproved.

[jmj3000]

Hey antihero, are you just ignoring my post or did you miss it? In case you missed it, here it is again.

Here, let me walk you all through why jmj3000 needs to be the lynch today.

Post 15: Immediate dismissiveness without any other thoughts. This looks like scum overreaction to me.
Post 28: I think this is the 3rd post in a row where he desperately tries to discredit SA without adding anything new (yeah, I know it's page 2, but why is jmj trying so hard to fight this thought that SA threw out there? Does this conversation say anything about SA's, or anyone else's, alignment? jmj doesn't say)
Post 36: This is classic WIFOM.
Post 58: jmj telling anyone to stop actively lurking is pretty hypocritical to me.
Post 91: Yeah, SA is preventing you from scumhunting.
Post 220: OK......... so what conclusions have you drawn so far even without the answer? This is a giant fencesit.
Post 322: Nitpicking much?

Conclusion: jmj has just been defending himself+active lurking this whole game and now he's trying to nitpick his way onto an andrew lynch.

antihero its 1 day to the deadline ..

We have 24 hours still. 4 votes in that that timeframe isn't unreasonable.

COME ON, PEOPLE.

I am going to go up this list of my posts backwards.

Post 322, I point out where andrew had lied when he said this:

firstly jmj i didnt mention katsuki? i mentioned blak and morthax.
ur case on morthax is exacgtly the same as mine (i wrote it first)


antihero its 1 day to the deadline ..

Nitpicking it was not. It was me saying "Hey, he said this here, and is now saying he never said that. Lie/Contradiction right there."

Post 220 is where I first posted my list of questions to multiple players. I had not drawn any conclusions except those people I had asked were scummy in my eyes.

As for post 91, I blatantly say I have been defending myself because SA refused to drop his shoddy case. If he had dropped it after I refuted it so many times, it wouldn't have been going on for so long. As it was, that shoddy case and mothrax asking about mass-claim were the only two things that had happened so far at that point. I had already given my thoughts on the mass-claim, and was returning to who I viewed as scum because of that case, SA. As a matter of fact, I had stated I found SA scummy when he kept pushing the case on me.

Post 58, I was not active lurking. I had been active in the game and giving insights. I was not being prompted to give any content. Mongoose was having to be prompted to add anything.

As to post 36, I don't give a flying rat's behind what you think of that post, I knew it was WIFOM the moment I posted. However, I also posted the truth. I had seen enough of Furc's play in HP mafia to realize he would have been perfect to leave around, because he has trouble convincing people to lynch his reads.

Post 28, the only thing that had happened was SA's case on me. I wasn't going to let a shoddy case like that go, so I proceeded to keep attacking the case.

Post 15, what the hell else did you expect? Me to go "Oh, he's right?" Uh, how about no. I know my role, and I knew that case was wrong, so I dismissed it as RVS antics. When he kept on with it, I proceeded to refute every piece of evidence, at which point he would change the evidence around to paint me in a scum light.

Also, I like how you pick 7 posts out of my ISO and use them to paint me in a scum light. It isn't working, but good try.

The only thing you even commented on in your next post after that was the last line. You didn't say a word about the rest.

[jmj3000]

Antihero, I did not say nuh uh. I took your point, provided the rebuttal, and explained myself. You saying you are going to ignore it is scummy as hell.

[jmj3000]

havingfitz: I haven't felt confident in anyone being scum until after andrew's lynch. I typically don't vote until I am fairly confident in who I would be voting for is scum.

antihero: If you would get off your damn lofty horse, and read my post where I offered a rebuttal to your case, maybe, just maybe, you would have something to say. Instead, you state you aren't going to read it, and are going to continue with your case when it is wrong. What's wrong, afraid that if you try to come up with another case, then you will slip up even more?

[jmj3000]

Why are you sure the claim will save you? Here, have some extra incentive to claim.

vote: antihero

That's for refusing to acknowledge rebuttals to the points you posted, general dismissiveness of said rebuttals, tunneling, weak case, and general anti-town behavior.

[jmj3000]

You replaced in. Who did your replacee protect?

[jmj3000]

unvote

I don't necessarily believe the claim, but whatever. What's the current vote count?

[jmj3000]

Did the mod find an ald replacement? I believe he said he wouldn't end the day without one.

[jmj3000]

God dammit. Both people who have pushed weak cases against me have turned out to be town power roles. My read have been off all game, I need to go and reread the game.

[jmj3000]

Dammit, I said I was going to reread the damn thread. Give me a chance for crying out loud.

[jmj3000]

Claim is vania townie, reread is going slowly due to me being on my phone.y

[jmj3000]

Claim is vania townie, reread is going slowly due to me being on my phone.y

Also, its apparent to me nothing I say will change your minds. This reread is hell on my phones tiny screen, and any case I come up with will more than likely be dismissed as OMGUS. Scum did a damn good job setting the mislynch up. Just remember when I flip town to look at how fast the wagon on me built.

[jmj3000]

I was wrong about you and anti, sorry about that.

[jmj3000]

... I would have never thought to look at that if you hadn't told me kito.