Open 254 ~ Trust Issues (FvEvE) Game Ends

[Nexus]

*returns*

Sup.

unvote

I'm trying to decide between Zed and quadz.

Will get back to you on that one.

[Lowell]

Prod received.

unvote, vote zed

for need of consensus (and because she's scum).

[Zed]

Lowell, I'm trying really hard to be polite. And its really hard, because this just so frustrating. I feel like I'm not being heard at all by you.

And are you capable of responding or commenting on anything? Uite asked what I would cal a good question, and its something I think I've asked you before. You FoSed me for low content and postcount, but I have about 3 times the amount of posts as you do, and more content. So wtf? I know you were V/LA, but even then there is little excuse.

And no. You don't know I'm scum. It really doesn't help that you are wrong, and I'm just town.

So if you lynch me, and when CSL tells you I'm town, you'll know who to go for.

While I'm here

Unvote

Vote: quadz08

in the interest of a lynch

[Antihero]

Nice to see that Lowell is reading the thread.

Zed, do you really think quad is scum, or are you just hopping on the largest rivalling wagon?

[Antihero]

Oh, and Uite, I'll answer your question when I have more time (before the end of the game day).

[Pomegranate]

Hey. I like the Zed wagon. Will post later.

[kunkstar7]

Unvote; Vote: zed,

seems like the strongest read to go with here.

@Sevei, your a2rudeboy case is interesting, but I don't see it going anywhere today. Out of zed or quadz (which I don't understand the case on yet), which seems scummier?

[quadz08]

Those aren't answers. Why were you so eager to go after Equinox? Why didn't you stop to think about what rolefishing actually is before you did so?

I was eager to go after Equinox because in my head (due to my non-existent experience with open setups) her question could've been fishing for roles. I didn't think about the implications of a question like that in an open game versus in a closed game, because it didn't occur to me that there

could

be a difference.

Lowell: Dammit man, post some content! Speeeeeeeak.

[Zed]

On a scale of one to ten where everyonw starts at a 5, quadz is about a 7.5. My vote is mostly to try to save myself, because I feel that if a player is innocent they should do whatever they can to stay in the game, most of the time at least.

[Uite]

@Lowell:

Why didn't you answer my question?

So if you lynch me, and when CSL tells you I'm town, you'll know who to go for.

Blatant AtE. Scummy.

On a scale of one to ten where everyonw starts at a 5, quadz is about a 7.5. My vote is mostly to try to save myself, because I feel that if a player is innocent they should do whatever they can to stay in the game, most of the time at least.

Self-preserving behaviour like that is really scummy. Why didn't you try putting together a convincing case, instead of voting the player with the most votes?

I was eager to go after Equinox because in my head (due to my non-existent experience with open setups) her question could've been fishing for roles. I didn't think about the implications of a question like that in an open game versus in a closed game, because it didn't occur to me that there could be a difference.

But you do know that in open setups all the roles are known right? And that that's why they're called Open? Considering the setup is crucial in a game like this, I find it very hard to believe you weren't aware of it. Also your "non-existent experience" is a blatant lie, since you're also in another ongoing open game, and that's been going on longer than this one.

Quadz looks to be our best lynch candidate today. Zed is scummy as well, but is also very newbish, so she gets the benefit of the doubt for now.

[CSL]

Roll Call VIII

singersigner -1- Antihero
quadz08 -3- singersigner, Uite, Zed
Lowell -1- a2rudeboy
Pomegranate -1- springlullaby
a2rudeboy -1- Sevei

Zed -4- Pomegranate, quadz08, Lowell, kunkstar7

Nonvoters -1- Nexus

12 in class, 7 expels

singersigner is V/LA until Sunday

Please tell me if this is off.

Deadline is the 6th of October, at 7:00pm EST. Deadline hitting now means Zed gets kicked out

Warning! 3 days remain!

[a2rudeboy]

@Uite- I initially signed up for so many games because i was in a time where i had nothing to do, IRL. Obviously, i got a bit overzealous in this respect. I choose not to replace out of any games, because i have multi-replaced out before, and I'm attempting to force mold myself into a better player. With that being said, I am here, I have read up, and I will be posting. Also, my v/la ended a few days ago, but then I unexpectedly came down with a cold/ had to move. Not ATE, just stating.

At this point, i still feel my vote is where i want it to remain. Between Zed and Quadz, i find Zed to be the scummier of the two, but not the scummiest player in the game by far.

What do you expect Lowell to respond with? What of Lowell's posts of Zed's scumminess? In what form did Lowell discredit zed with "oh there's no substance here..."? Have you developed your read on Lowell any further beyond this initial psot which as you yourself stated was your first

I was expecting to see more of a response from Lowell to the questions and concerns of Zed. When i initially read: "I can't tell yet whether this is OMGUS scum reaction or OMGUS newbie town reaction, but I'll figure it out." from Lowell, I took that to be sort of dismissing of any case she had as merely OMGUS. My reads have progressed a bit in the sense that Zed had continued to ask questions which were left unresponded to, and Lowell's most recent voting of Zed felt like, even though stated for consensus, it could have had more reasoning behind it, given the two players' previous engagements.

[quadz08]

But you do know that in open setups all the roles are known right? And that that's why they're called Open? Considering the setup is crucial in a game like this, I find it very hard to believe you weren't aware of it. Also your "non-existent experience" is a blatant lie, since you're also in another ongoing open game, and that's been going on longer than this one.

Yes, I am aware of the setup and the fact that all roles are known. I simply did not think to consider it, because I've never had to before.

As to the experience thing, I am currently in two Open games: this one, and one other, which started 2 weeks prior to this one. It was still in Day One (or maybe at the very, very beginning of Day 2, I don't remember exactly) when this game started. Saying I have "non-existent experience" might not be technically true, but it might as well be.

[Antihero]

*returns*

Sup.

unvote

I'm trying to decide between Zed and quadz.

Will get back to you on that one.

So what's your position on this issue right now?
This just looks like you're setting yourself up to jump on whichever wagon has the most momentum at the time. Scumpoints for Nexus

On a scale of one to ten where everyonw starts at a 5, quadz is about a 7.5.

I have no idea what this system means, nor how you arrived at this number. Please enlighten me.

[Zed]

Blatant AtE. Scummy.

I know exactly what I did. I just never feel that AtEs are scummy.

Self-preserving behaviour like that is really scummy. Why didn't you try putting together a convincing case, instead of voting the player with the most votes?

But it isn't self-preservation, its more like town-preservation. It is more beneficial for the town for an innocent to save themselves then it is for an innocent to let themselve die, usually. Sometimes the townie is just a distraction, and I don't think I'm all that distracting here. So yeah, I'm going to try to save myself.

quadz:
-Has little content. There is plenty to talk about at this point, so that doesn't make any sense.
-Posted about me pointing out things that have already been said more than once. Can't make his own case, because he has no one to make a case against?

Lowell:
-Dodges questions, doesn't even acknowledge them.
-Follwed up on only one case- against me- a bad one at that, though his best, and only, one this game so far
-Distanced self from me for a little, then hopped on the wagon only after it had started
-Putting the idea that I'm scum in everyone's head (like saying "zed is scum" it really doesn't work like that. it doesn't prove anything)

Pomegranate seems to be just skating by right now. I get the whole V/LA stuff, but when you're here, can you add a little more?

I'd love to vote Lowell, he still bugs me. But hey, if I have to die, I have to die I guess.

[quadz08]

But it isn't self-preservation, its more like town-preservation. It is more beneficial for the town for an innocent to save themselves then it is for an innocent to let themselve die, usually. Sometimes the townie is just a distraction, and I don't think I'm all that distracting here. So yeah, I'm going to try to save myself.

No, Zed, it's more beneficial for the townie to try to get someone scummier lynched. Self-preservation isn't going to save you here; quite the opposite.

quadz- Yeah, my original hunch had them together. Then later I changed things and I didn't think of them that way anymore. I thought some of my other posts made that clear, but I guess not.

Care to explain this further?

[singersigner]

Ok. Here are my thoughts:

Zed and Quadz are on rivaling "enemies" and are hopping on what looks like the easiest lynch for them. Because of Antihero's response to Zed's vote, I'm gunna guess that he and Quadz are in it together. I might be ok with a Zed lynch if it gets too close to the deadline, even though my biggest gut it telling me quadz. Because of how they've been interacting...seems to me not like TvT, but SvS.

Uite's been asking good questions, and I feel like I missed one directed at me somewhere in there, so I'll go back, take a look at it, and respond later...or now (found them)...

Uite...I originally thought there were three votes on him, and since it was RVS, I didn't need to put a forth. That statement alone was made to say that if I felt comfortable putting a random vote on someone with that many votes at the time, it would've been him, for the random reason of her not answering her own questions.

Disregarding your miscount, why do you feel four votes is too much for RVS?

I didn't make a big deal out of Equinox not answering her own questions until she got *I felt* unreasonably defensive over it.

Do you think her defensiveness was in line with your agression? Why/why not?

(I will not respond within the quote as per request. I've only found that easier because I know people can see exactly what I'm responding to, where, and doesn't allow for any sort of misunderstanding)
NOW
Q 1. I feel there's no reason to put a vote on someone you haven't particularly founds scummy yet, when they've already had several votes cast against them.
Q 2. To clarify, is this before or after she had denied answering the questions herself? Is the implication that I was being aggressive about her answering her own questions? If so, no. She had very clearly stated that she had her own reasons for not answering the questions, and I felt her defensiveness came about because she got stuck in a corner once people realized it was kind of scummy to keep refusing after people have asked her to answer. I believe I explained later that I felt her explanation for not answering was valid, but weak at the same time. It was very much gone about in the wrong way.

[Zed]

No, Zed, it's more beneficial for the townie to try to get someone scummier lynched. Self-preservation isn't going to save you here; quite the opposite.

You just repeated what I said. Way to go.

Care to explain this further?

singer- How Antihero and quadz have been interacting? Just want to make sure i'm clear on that.

I no longer thought of Antihero and Lowell to be scum buddies. I only thought of Lowell to be scum, and I was undecided on Antihero.

[quadz08]

When and why did you change your mind?

And no, I didn't repeat what you said. It seemed to me that you were saying "yeah, I

am

self-preserving, because it helps town," whereas I said that being self-preserving does not help town. If I've misunderstood you, please correct me.

[Zed]

An innocent trying to save themselves and get someonr elsr they are suspicious of is helpful to the town.

I don't remember when I changed my mind exactly, but it was at a point later in the day when I was more awake and capable of rational thinking.

[Uite]

@Uite- I initially signed up for so many games because i was in a time where i had nothing to do, IRL. Obviously, i got a bit overzealous in this respect. I choose not to replace out of any games, because i have multi-replaced out before, and I'm attempting to force mold myself into a better player. With that being said, I am here, I have read up, and I will be posting. Also, my v/la ended a few days ago, but then I unexpectedly came down with a cold/ had to move. Not ATE, just stating.

If you're trying to learn how to be a better player, wouldn't it make more sense to only play a few games at a time, but get really involved in them, rather than playing at a lowel level in many games?

Yes, I am aware of the setup and the fact that all roles are known. I simply did not think to consider it, because I've never had to before.

Have you never played Newbie games? It's fairly important there as well.

As to the experience thing, I am currently in two Open games: this one, and one other, which started 2 weeks prior to this one. It was still in Day One (or maybe at the very, very beginning of Day 2, I don't remember exactly) when this game started. Saying I have "non-existent experience" might not be technically true, but it might as well be.

You're backtracking and you know it. One day doesn not mean no experience. But since we're talking about an ongoing game, maybe we should just leave it at that.

But it isn't self-preservation, its more like town-preservation. It is more beneficial for the town for an innocent to save themselves then it is for an innocent to let themselve die, usually. Sometimes the townie is just a distraction, and I don't think I'm all that distracting here. So yeah, I'm going to try to save myself.

That's not how it works. There are two scumteams, of two players each. Any one of those can be wiped out at the end of Night 1, which would mean they lose. As a townie being killed is not that bad. Fully eight out of twelve players are town. If one of them dies, there's still plenty of town left to fight the scum. And while a scum lynch is usually preferable to a town lynch, even a mislynch can provide valuable inforamtion to analyse. The only town that can excuse self-preserving behaviour are powerroles, but there are none in this game.

I'd love to vote Lowell, he still bugs me. But hey, if I have to die, I have to die I guess.

I'm very suspicious of Lowell too, but because we are so close to deadline, he's not a good lynch, unless we can get enough players to agree to vote for him. Besides there are four scum. It's not absolutely necessary to vote for your top pick.

Q 1. I feel there's no reason to put a vote on someone you haven't particularly founds scummy yet, when they've already had several votes cast against them.

While I agree with what you're saying, you didn't answer my question. Why is four votes too much in RVS? To get decent info from an RVS wagon, it needs to go a bit further than that, say to L-2.

Q 2. To clarify, is this before or after she had denied answering the questions herself? Is the implication that I was being aggressive about her answering her own questions? If so, no. She had very clearly stated that she had her own reasons for not answering the questions, and I felt her defensiveness came about because she got stuck in a corner once people realized it was kind of scummy to keep refusing after people have asked her to answer. I believe I explained later that I felt her explanation for not answering was valid, but weak at the same time. It was very much gone about in the wrong way.

Answering your own questions last is pretty much SOP, so I don't really think she was being scummy. That would mean that your suspicion was unwarranted, and I think that her defensiveness was a reaction to that. What I wanted to know is if you could see that angle.

An innocent trying to save themselves and get someonr elsr they are suspicious of is helpful to the town.

While there's nothing intrinsically wrong with what you're saying, you're using the wrong approach for the first part, and I'm not sure you're actually doing the second part.

[springlullaby]

MOD: CSL, would you be very angry if I replace out?

If it's because of life, then no. If it's anything else, kinda.

[Uite]

If you do decide to replace out, could you at least answer my question before you're gone?

[Lowell]

Lowell:

You say you're voting singer because of gut. You've also called Zed outright scum here. Why is it more important for you to vote someone you have only a gut read on, instead of someone you have a definite case on? Combined with your RVS vote, it looks like awkwardly executed distancing to me.

@Uite- I don't exactly get what you're saying here, but generally, singer just gives me a scumvibe, hence the vote. But zed does also. There's no reason in particular I chose one over the other. My vote moved from sing to zed when I saw no one was joining me on the sing-wagon.

[Uite]

Gut is fine, but if you have a solid case, why go with gut over the case? Your opinion of Zed didn't seem gut-driven.