Newbie 1024 -- Minimalist Mafia (Game Over)

[Mute]

/confirming.

[Mute]

1) EST.
2) I've played a few games on another forum, this'll be my first here. Never modded, though on the other site I'm getting help from some of the other members with modding a game there.
3) So long as I've a home/internet access, whenever.
4) Male.

[Mute]

Vote: Neruz

because how are you not sure of your gender?

[Mute]

@Mastin: It's a game forum for an MMO which I've quit a while back. Currently the site's on their... what, 7th game so far? Two/three of the members there brought the game up, and it's kinda taken off. Though theres still a kinda niche community there that plays, the highest amount of players we've had in a game ever is 21, if memory serves.

and trust me, I know what you mean when you say you're an analytical player, I'm much the same. Though, as is shown from the games I've participated on there, I've a knack for a first/second day lucky guess at finding a mafia member (which in the last game i played there even amazed the mod of the game. My role then was the mute hobo, and on day 2 I pegged the godfather of the mafia's side.)

@Kayi: I've only ever been mafia once, but I've enjoyed both playstyles. Being able to collude with a team is great when it comes to decision making, but theres a lot of planning that went into trying to decide whom to kill and when to do it. Granted the game where I was a mafia member was a rather... Well, experimental game I'd guess... The mod had set up groups of masons, and two mafia teams, where each mason group consisted of 3 people that were allowed to talk amongst themselves freely, but only within their own mason groups. That was a real challenge, and even moreso when the mod made some errors with the night actions.

Though, being town is fun as well. Whether it was as a vanilla townie, or to the extreme of a mute hobo (i was only allowed to vote and quote others. Lemme tell you, that was a challenge; and yes I was made the mute role as an ironic joke as over on the other site my username's Mute as well.), the guessing and intrigue of trying to agree on whom we suspect to be a mafia member, trying to prove our town-alignment, and just watching others do the same, it is all well fun.

So, yeah, either or I enjoy playing for different reasons.

[Mute]

I wish

Mute

stopped being mute. I haven't heard input from him at all. I can't possibly know if he's lurking or just away. But he hasn't posted anything relevant to the game

I'm still here. The name "Mute" isn't just a name, it has some relevance to my personality. If I see a time to talk or say something I will, like if I'm addressed (like now) or would like to add something to the discussion.

Right now I still can't finger who to cast a vote on, and my vote to Neruz was a random vote I'll admit. I'm suspicious of a few people here, but for now I want to see how things unfold before I begin to make any decisions for one set person to vote on.

unvote: Neruz

[Mute]

Damn Tab key, meant to hit preview. =_=

I tend to check back on this game at least once a day, so that would explain a lot of my lurking.

[Mute]

The one thing I've noticed that stuck out to me was Yenros. Initially (as from page 2's initial post), he posted in what appeared to me to be a passive-aggressive manner, and after suspicion was placed onto them he seemed to shift into a more defensive posting style. The wavering resolve I feel is something that should be addressed, or at the very least kept in the back of my mind. And even when accused by Jay I don't feel his response was adequate enough for me to have any less suspicion of him.

Beefster's been erratic as well it'd seem, but they claim to have meta supporting their voting pattern. While I can say that that's a safe enough of a net (the forum I played the game on before has several people whom follow patterns of acting as well) for me to not fully suspect them, even nets have holes, and just that alone isn't a good enough of a stopper for me to be wary of them. I don't feel it should fall on the players to use past games for making a judgment on whether a person is or is not mafia. And if it was just a simple slip-up, then he'll just have to live with it. *shrug*

Also, this was said by Kayi as well: "Also, go back and read my posts. I do not only address people who address me. I mostly do so, but when there's nothing new that strikes me as scummy/odd, I don't see why I shouldn't do this." I can see why people are focusing on me for lurking which I'll try to avoid (the deadline for this game is the 17th, where the games I've played had each day and night cycle last only 24 hours or until majority is reached/all the night actions have been sent in. More a culture shock than anything), but this is more how I play. I observe others, see how a discussion is started and by whom, how everyone reacts to it, gauge their reactions, so on and so on, compare their posts to their responses and accusations, and prefer to let others do the talking so that when I do post, it's either to bring to the table my own observations, or expand upon what people've already posted.

Right now, though, to just get this across, here's who I suspect in order of suspicion:

- Yenros
- Beefster
- everyone else
x myself

[Mute]

@Mute

Put a vote on someone, I don't care how sure of you are of your read, just take a stand. Voting is a great part of voicing your opinion and allows town to get a better read on you.

Okay, once again point noted. Familiar playstyle, and longer length of the day period, so blegh.

@ Mute: I can't really defend myself, because I don't get what you mean. Suspicion was placed on my vote on Jay. So I defended my reason. I don't know what else to say on this note at this point, so if you could elaborate for me. Also, Kayi may have said what she did, but she has been posting. You have been lurking, and when you do not post there is no way for us to gauge you and figure out whether you are scummy or not.

If you want to bring up my then lurking, why did you not address what I addressed towards you? I mentioned your posting style, not your vote. I mentioned when you were placed on suspicion, which you did not mention.

Vote: Yenros

Not liking the dodging around.

Also, @Lateralus/Mastin; perhaps putting the SE and IC stuff in spoilers would help avoid having too large an open wall of text?

[Mute]

maybe something

Spoiler: along the lines

of this?

words words words.

Spoiler: SE

more words words words

words words words

[Mute]

@ Mute: You either didn't read my post or completely ignored what I said before bringing up my lurking. I didn't dodge the question, I said I don't understand, and asked you to explain. I tried to answer then with what I thought you mean. I still don't quite get what you mean, so could you please try to explain for me.

And here you go again. Keeping my vote on you because your acting is incredibly suspicious, but I'll humor you for now; look at how you posted from page two's first post, til when you were put under suspicion, then from then onwards. You've done nothing but skirt around and act defensively, not taking a solid stance for yourself, and even now you still do not. While I'm both keeping an eye on you as well as my vote:

L22: Is there any reason why you aren't voting? You seem to have your suspicions. Why aren't you using your most powerful tool? (I don't care where, just use it.)

FoS: L22

as everyone's stated, as well as myself, Beefster is just too odd to keep out of sight.

keeping an eye on you as well.

[Mute]

*sigh*
Well, I am sorry because of my inactivity, but like I said before I'm used to days only lasting 24 hours. I'd like to advance the game, so

unvote: Yenros

and

vote: Beefster

, as it just seems like, after being put into scrutiny for his playstyle so much and his motives and actions questioned and picked down to the bone that he's buckled from it all.

[Mute]

Whether or not he is scum, which yes I find to be a possibility of him as much of everyone except for myself, if he has given up on defending himself there's no need to keep him around. "If thy hand or eye offend thee, remove them from thyself; tis better to enter into paradise maimed than to bear the sin in hell." Yes I've left the hammer vote open to be made, but I still have suspicions of Yen, L22's been on my list to watch as of recently, as well as Jay and Kayi. Trendall's not posting I don't see as an issue yet, and due to my own earlier inactivity out of respect I cannot hold that against him as that'd make a hypocrite out of me, but so far I've not gotten any vibes from his posts yet.

[Mute]

@well, everyone: that is my personal belief. As I've said, the fact that on this site the day lasts so long is extreme culture shock (on the forum I mentioned and frequent, there have been two games that were started, and finished, and now are working on starting a third.) Whether that defense works for you or not, it is my reasoning.

@Jay: His manner of posting is something I'm not used to seeing, so saying I'm suspicious of him was inaccurate. Rather, I will be observing his post style and trying to decipher the rhythm behind them at a later time (am exhausted atm, navy training classes, memorization, the standings and faces; lot of stuff to memorize). Also, as I see that he said he is prepared to hammer beef without addressing my placing a vote on him. [quote=Lateralus22]I'm ready to hammer Beefster some time tomorrow unless anyone has any objections.[/quote] I don't know but he's been adamantly suspecting of beef anyways. Like I said, I am tired so I apologize if this is at all incoherent.

[Mute]

@Kayi: Yes, my post was aggressive. I don't feel like sitting back and letting us get boggled down in back and forths. Beef had 3 votes on him prior to mine and he was cracking under suspicion. It is everyone here who is town to search and eliminate any mafia players, and I will do my damnedest to do so. I will go back over this thread later, and read each post on an individual-to-individual level later. It's my duty as a townie to rid ourselves of scum, and by hunting them down I'm doing my part.

My home situation's also starting to fall apart like I've anticipated it would, so I may become a less frequent poster due to it, but I will do my best to stay in this.

[Mute]

@Jay: As I said a few pages back, my home situation is at best in the toilet. With that in mind, I either steal someone's wifi or access the internet at a cafe. Still here, but unfortunately less so. And yes, I responded to the prod.

@Neruz: Can you explain what Mylo means? I understand Lylo means lynch or lose, but mylo escapes me (outside of the name of the character in the disney movie.) Also, with the games I've played on the other forum I frequented, there's not once been a time that the mafia forgoes an NK. Usually, at the conclusion of the game, the mod posts what each person's night actions were, and how everyone acted throughout the game. I will say that the no-kill should be credited to a doc block instead of a mafia no-kill scenario.

@Trendall & Lateralus: Lat, you from the get go were all Eager McBeaver to lynch Kayi, but then Trendall posts and you side with him soon after. I've had my suspicions of you both, but Lat's actions are definitely not something to dismiss.

Vote: Lateralus22

[Mute]

Yes and No.
Insofar that I suspected your actions from the past day and they carried over and are/were increased today.
That Neruz was the first to bring it up, but soon after Trendall posts after your exchange with Neruz you side with Trendall. That is the main reason for my voting for you.

I've never liked no-lynching. Call it bias, but it's entirely personal. I recognize the benefits to it, and accept them, but given what happened overnight (in-game) I've reason enough to not vote for no-lynch and instead move towards a person.

[Mute]

@Lat: Why is it scummy? Last night

I

protected Kayi. Your targeting him was, to me, an attempt at a second shot at your target. Yes, I am accusing you of being scum, as I am also claiming the role of doctor.

[Mute]

lol typo error. =P
sorry, I digress.

Why protect Kayi? No reason. I had a feeling that I should target Kayi, and I did. There really was no ulterior motive to it, as I just as easily could have protected trendall or neruz. However, if you'd like me to have a reason for it, then I

guess

you can say I wanted to observe them longer. But otherwise, in all honesty, it was a quick decision I made when responding to Red's prod.

[Mute]

Seems like explaining the reason for my voting for Lat is the best course of action. Here is my train of thought:

As I've said I am the town doctor, last night I protected Kayi, and at the onset of this day Lat votes for him without giving any reason. This was the first flag. The association with Trendall? as you can see here, he says he will place the hammer vote (again), or that someone else will, and when he doesn't Trendall does. At first this is not suspicious, but when you look here at Trendall's post at the top of page 11, he claims that it is better to not lynch, and unlike Neruz states that:

Trendall: My preliminary guess here would be that mafia decided to no kill so that they could claim doc at a later stage, but an actual doc save is obviously possible too.

Why bring this up? His preliminary assumption is towards a mafia inaction. This I admit is a weak example, but soon after trendall posts that and votes to no lynch, L22 is right behind him with a no lynch as well.

and @Mastin: *shrug* I have a strong suspicion of Lat (~92% if i had to give a percentage), the only reason I even decided to claim.

[Mute]

@Everyone: I have, giving you guys an asspull of a number to use, a 40% suspicion that Trendall may be mafia. This is the first and for now only time I will accuse him of being one because frankly I do not suspect him of it. My suspicion is that L22 and whomever else is mafia is piggy backing onto someone else to spread the suspicion from them. I only bring this up because it's a tactic I used when I played a game before and was mafia in it, and to some extent it worked. (I should clarify on that more, to be fair, I and my teammate came up with it and the third of our mafia group was the leech.) I don't know of any ways to support my claim other than saying it is truth and that no one has come forward to counter it, as others have said.

@Jay: If Trendall has already said he had planned on hammering, then for me that could just further cement a relationship between the two of them, whatever it may be. Maybe I'm wrong in suspecting L22, but it is what my head and gut tells me.

[Mute]

So how was everyone's thanksgiving? Mine wasn't too bad, had dinner with some of my family at a pretty fancy diner.

[Mute]

Ignore previous post, i managed to misread Nacho as saying that he didn't think that Mute is lynching lat, rather than that he didn't like that mute is lynching lat. My bad.

Yeah, that sucks. Was trying to get a response out of Lat with my voting, see if my suspicions of him were accurate. Sure of him they turned out accurate

enough

, but this new guy I'll need to see more posts of.

UNVOTE: Lat22/this Nacho dude.

._.

Seriously though how was everyone's holiday? I had an okay one myself.

[Mute]

I think the no-lynch reason still stands, it's more of a question of doing it now or later. Right now I'm thinking we leave it for later, so Mute can have a voice since it is likely he will be NK'ed as doc.

Only having a short window for this each day I'm not done with my reread, but I should be tomorrow, so you will get it all then or the next day.

I'd love to be night-killed.

The only reason I say this is a way for the mafia to discredit my claim via a NK. Say they decide to no-kill on N2, and I say "oh hey another successful block," that'd make them look bad. They could kill me and be on with their merry way, and the game'd go on as planned. They could kill someone and hope I don't predict their kill. This could either result in "oh hey Mute just made a wrong call," or someone could come along and say "well he didn't block the kill, maybe he false-claimed and the real doctor's too busy laughing at this fool to want to oust himself." Sure it comes down to luck, picking the right targets to save, but if I were scum it's something I'd consider as a gambit.

'Course this is also a newbie game. I'd save the gambits and ploys for more involved games.

[Mute]

7 players.

...and the doctor's protect during the night isn't confirmed as town alongside her?

What if everyone is right and that there actually was a no-kill and I wound up protecting a mafian? I don't dismiss it, but given the result and onset of the beginning of this day-period I'd wager it at a .10% chance of being the case. Nothing is proven absolutely until death/lynch.

[Mute]

EBWOP: I swear when I refresh the page I have got to make sure that another page in the thread isn't added.

[Mute]

@ Mute: If they managed to get a kill tonight I don't think it would be enough to doubt your claim. Right now there are 8 people, and 7 for you to choose from, only 5 of which are town. This means there are 35 possible outcomes between your pick and theirs (supposing they choose to attempt a NK and choose not to NK you), only 5 of which would stop a NK.

Ahh. Thank you. One thing I am not afraid to admit: I suck terribly at math. Even if it's statistically impossible I can better explain something with words than numbers.

Vote Count 5

• No Lynch

  (Trendall - Lateralus22 - Nachomamma8)
  
  
  Not Voting

  (Kayi - Mastin - Yenros - Neruz - Mute - Jay)

With eight alive, it takes five to lynch.

Current Deadline: Dec. 11th, 2010 at 5:00 AM

Why list Lat22 and Nacho88 if the latter is subbing in for the former?

[Mute]

Face may be new but the role behind it might not.
Im still leery about trendall and now Nacho88. Neruz ranks low. Mastin is low-to-mid. RedCoyote is 0%.

[Mute]

Okay, so what is an ISO read? I'm quite confused.

Seconding this; as I understand it it's going through the thread and reading the individual posts of people.

That's a rather lengthy process; any way to streamline that if I'm right on what it is?

[Mute]

Aaagh.

You seriously need to control yourself dude, i can handle long posts, but i cannot handle huge blocks of text.

This to the Nth degree. x_X
Mastin, I do not suspect you to be scum, and my suspicions of a collusion between Trendall and L22/Nacho8 still stand. Together they are discrediting your suspicions, and Trend's doing it pretty well.

There's a rule of thumb to use when typing/writing/talking in general, and even the anagram used for it is easy to remember: K.I.S.S., which stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid. The long walls are honestly an eye-sore. I'd rather not see you lynched, but with the way you're reacting it seems that that'll be the case.

I know you rely on your gut a lot, as do I, so I can sympathize with you backing it up, but, it's a weak support in the face of facts. I had a hunch on who was going to be targeted N1, and I acted on my hunch. Using it I had a sturdy enough of a case against L22 (now Nacho8), and I'm still leery about him/her and Trend. But for now I'm keeping my vote to myself until I see a solid reason to vote for anyone.

But I've still got ISO readings to do.

[Mute]

And finally Neruz says what I had as a gut-sense. Thank you. Even when Lat22 was playing, I had a hunch and attacked him as being scum. I rescinded my vote when Nacho8 took his place to see if my suspicions were misplaced. I am glad I wasn't wrong.

Vote: Nachomamma8

, for these reasons:

Now, I don't do ISO reads for the simple fact that I lose context with that, so I'm not going to do one in what I guess'd be the "traditional" way. Instead, I've gone back to page 10, where the day started, and starting with Lat's vote on Kayi soon after the onset of the day. Note here his reluctance to get bogged down in talk of a no-lynch, this drove me to have no doubts he was mafia and that my suspicions of both him and trendall made me confident to oust my identity as doctor. Now, of course you might argue "lat isn't playing anymore, it's nacho now;" to that I say "that may be the case, but it's just another player underneath that role. Now, remember when I pointed out that Lat didn't want to get bogged down in discussion for a no-lynch? Here and here, are where I see those two being scum partners.

Mastin stated doing an ISO read of kayi here, even though in my mind Kayi is town. So here, along with all the evidence provided from pages 17 and 18,

FoS: Mastin

, and I'd like to add again to mastin, K.I.S.S. Now, here, I addressed Mastin on my suspicion on Trend/Lat, much as I am doing now.

This post by Jay makes me suspicious to his motives as well, but that amounts to nothing given this post, as well as this post here. Jay is, in my eyes, town.

This post by Trendall seems oddly scummy to me. Maybe my logic isn't in line with the norms of the site here, but I see this as a minor scum-tell. Oh wait, he ignored Neruz answering his question quite clearly. Trendall, I already suspect you as scum, so since I cannot place two votes,

HoS: Trendall

. This just further cements my suspicion of you as mafia; though it is only after you make that post where it's explained that a lynch is a better option. Still too aggressive a move to be town to me.

This is also around the time when Nacho8 first enters the fray. I can pardon this post only somewhat, as it can be argued he was new to the game. But, the final part to his post assumes that mafia set-up the no-kill to try and oust a doctor, thinking that they (me) were successful in stopping a kill, and he still pushes for a no-lynch. It is up to this point that I will let Neruz's evidence against him be the case I augment to mine own.

[Mute]

As for Mute, well. The name kinda gave that one away.

I'm only mute insofar that I'll speak when I've something to provide or want to contribute something to the table. I like letting others figure things out on their own then add my two cents to the matter.

Plus, the name just fits me. =]

[Mute]

I'm just as surprised as you are Mastin.
If it matters, last night I protected Neruz. Figured that the scum'd rather target someone who was causing an uproar, and it was a toss-up between you and him if they were going to kill anyone.

I've got crazy dumb luck, or there was no kill again.

[Mute]

I also noticed this just now, purely by coincidence;

...Huh? Not Mute?!?

Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm fairly sure that kind of 'surprise' type reaction after the night is a relatively basic scum tell. It's not much, but given the situation it is relevant.

I'm actually with Nacho on this, even though I still hold Nacho as a mafia member. Why'd Mastin go out on such a lark to make that sta--

So, did anyone catch what happened at the end of day two there? Mastin had a choice. He could either hammer on Nacho, who was apparently equal with me at the top of his list of suspects, or he could not vote for Nacho and have the day end in a no-lynch. Mastin was vehemently opposing a no-lynch throughout the whole of day two, yet he still chose to not hammer on Nacho. Mastin chose not to hammer on Nacho, despite the fact that he was arguing against me throughout all of day two for 'fencesitting'. Mastin chose not to hammer on Nacho, despite the fact that he thinks that, and I quote,

'if you're more than 25% sure someone's scum (9 players minus self-->8 players, 2 scum-->2/8-->25%.), then you should still be voting them'

. As far as I can see here, Mastin and Nacho are the two mafia. If they're not, then I don't know what to think.

Well... damn.

HoS: Mastin

You did the same thing L22 did (prior to his replacement with Nacho8) and withheld a hammer vote? Your reaction seems rather silly as well, as common sense would tell you a doctor generally can't protect ones self from harm.

Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do.

[Mute]

I was referring to this Neruz:

Bleh. I can't convince myself that Mastin is scum, though. Why would he NOT hammer me if he was? He set up the hammer perfectly by being vehemently against a no-lynch today, like Trendall said. Especially considering that I hadn't claimed yet.

I just can't understand why Mastin'd react like that.

[Mute]

Mastin had a choice. He could either hammer on Nacho, who was apparently equal with me at the top of his list of suspects, or he could not vote for Nacho and have the day end in a no-lynch.

My data was not finished, Trendall. If I had voted Nacho, that would've been the hammer. So, obviously, I wanted to do my analysis. I did, but wasn't finished when I had to leave. Considering I had to leave five minutes before I posted that, obviously, posting that was a bit rushed. Naturally, I didn't hammer. It was a day before the deadline. Others probably would've chimed in, I figured. Others would have hammered, so I shouldn't end the day a day before deadline, even if I wouldn't be online at the deadline, to let others talk. Like, oh, say, YOU, instead of making a last-minute vote for Yenros who you had no chance of getting a lynch on.

My data's still inconclusive, because I haven't had the chance to finish my reads. Nacho, for example, hasn't given me a link to his meta, like I asked him to yesterday. He didn't claim, despite being at L-1, either, and he deserved that chance.

Give me the time I need to finish my reads; I'm almost done. Then, I'll form a conclusion. I'm so close. Just need a little more time to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Once the last pieces of data are strung together, I can look at it all put together, to form a solid view. I've got a lot of info. I'm this close to finishing the last of it, and then I do the analysis half. And when I do, I'll have it. I'll have the scum; I'm sure of it. Off-site, this stage in the game is my specialty. Off-site, when we're this late in a game, when I have all the evidence ready, I'll be capable of stringing it all together, to weave the small hints here and there together, and find the scum. So, just you wait, Trendall. I will not stay inconclusive for long. No more gut reads. It's all information, from here-on out.

So, that should adequately explain why I didn't hammer Nacho. 1: Inconclusive data; too late into the game for me to use my gut between the two. 2: A day before deadline; people still needed to talk. 3: Nacho hadn't claimed. 4: Related to two, it was a whole day before deadline. While I knew it was MY last day of access, it was not the whole town's. Others should've had the chance to talk, and more than that, there were two other players who could've hammered. (Three, if Nacho believed that his lynch would be more valuable than a no lynch. It's something which a town-player at L-1 on the day of the deadline would consider.) Essentially.

I've seen this used before by scum from the site I play on. The "I've got useful information for the town, and I'm pleading with people to not vote for me despite my being questioned and suspected because I'm important to the town really truly" line has more often than not been a scum saying. When a mafia uses it, I've seen, they tend to ramble/repeat themselves, to just further enforce an "I am telling the truth guys scouts honor cross my heart hope to die." Whether that holds true here I'm unaware in terms of tells, but I'm reserving my vote til I see your info Mastin. If I don't feel it fully vindicates you Mastin, I will be voting for you.

In light of this:
Mastin and Trendall are about tied with suspicion for me (40% and 70%), with nacho still holding the lead for my suspicions (~85%).

Also, maybe it's just me, but I feel that using meta-gaming to determine a person's alignment is as reliable a detective method as throwing a stick into the ocean is a fishing method. If you're going to say it is, I hold it to be inconsistent. You're going to compare a persons posting styles per past games and their roles therein to form an idea of their role in their current game by comparing posting styles, yes? I despise that, as a person may just have a particular method of posting, regardless of alignment (Mastin's known for long-winded speeches, right?).

[Mute]

EBWOP: 40% and 60% for mastin and trend, sorry.

[Mute]

...
Well, can we at least assume that the same applies today as it did yesterday (in gameplay terms) that no-lynch would be counter productive? The only difference between the two days is the number of the day.

@Mastin: I appreciate that you put a lot of work into that thing, and see your final judgment, so I'll put the effort to reading it later. But yeah, holy hell that's a lot of stuff to read.

[Mute]

Sticking with my guns from the day before

Vote: Nachomamma8

Mastin's info was certainly insightful, but I still hold him suspicious so my opinion's kinda moot.

[Mute]

@Kayi: My suspicions remain unchanged from D2.

[Mute]

Jay, am I right in thinking that Mastin is your top suspect here? If so, why aren't you voting for him?

Why're you pressuring him into a vote on a bandwagon? Sounds pretty scummy to me, wanting to get rid of a player by questioning why someone isn't placing a vote on a suspect.

[Mute]

@Jay: How'd getting rid of Mastin make it easier to get a better read on Nacho?
This is a purely curious question.

[Mute]

I see. Personally I view mastin as being town and nacho as scum.
Granted, the inactivity (lol, coming from me saying this? what blasphemy!) is kinda killing the game. Jay, Kayi, Yen, and Nacho a little bit, where'd they go?

[Mute]

Responding to prod:
@DLG: Yeah, I get it now that it was in bad gameplay to have ousted myself at the onset of D2, but given the circumstances I saw it as a good idea then.

Dunno what else to talk about really. Most what's come to mind has already been brought up. =/

[Mute]

Responding to prod:
@DLG: Yeah, I get it now that it was in bad gameplay to have ousted myself at the onset of D2, but given the circumstances I saw it as a good idea then.

Dunno what else to talk about really. Most what's come to mind has already been brought up. =/

I would agree that it was a bad play for a townie to make. My concern is that it was a genuinely brilliant, albeit dangerous play for a scum to make. I will have some specific questions to ask you once Christmas is over. Please do your best to answer them completely. I would feel much better being able to believe that we have a Doctor in the town based on those questions/answers versus accepting that fact based on Wifom.

Not a problem. If it'd prove my role as doctor I'll answer whatever questions you've got, which I'll assume to be about my actions N1 and N2 and my protection of Kayi and Neruz respectively. Right?

[Mute]

Questions for Mute:

Right now, though, to just get this across, here's who I suspect in order of suspicion:

- Yenros
- Beefster
- everyone else
x myself

Yes I've left the hammer vote open to be made, but I still have suspicions of Yen, L22's been on my list to watch as of recently, as well as Jay and Kayi.

What happened between these two posts that you went from distinctly separating Yenros and Beefster from everyone else, to seeing everyone but Trendall equally suspicious? I cannot see anything in your ISO Posts #7 - #10 to indentify this change in your stance.

Okay, once again point noted. Familiar playstyle, and longer length of the day period, so blegh.

This was said in response to Laterallus22 pusihing you to place a vote. How does the shorter days you are used to translate into making you slower to place a vote? It seems on the surface that quicker day phases would inspire quicker voting. Please explain.

@Jay: His manner of posting is something I'm not used to seeing, so saying I'm suspicious of him was inaccurate.

This was in answer to Jay asking why did you start suspecting Laterallus22. It was in Day 1.

Insofar that I suspected your actions from the past day and they carried over and are/were increased today.

This was in answer to Laterallus22 asking what was scummy about his start of Day 2 actions. Can you explain the contradiction in these two posts?

So how was everyone's thanksgiving? Mine wasn't too bad, had dinner with some of my family at a pretty fancy diner.
...
Seriously though how was everyone's holiday? I had an okay one myself.

Why were you trying to generate discussion that had nothing to do with the game?

I will say that the no-kill should be credited to a doc block instead of a mafia no-kill scenario.

but given what happened overnight (in-game)

@Lat: Why is it scummy? Last night I protected Kayi. Your targeting him was, to me, an attempt at a second shot at your target. Yes, I am accusing you of being scum, as I am also claiming the role of doctor.

This reads like soft claim, soft claim, outright claim to support your position. Is that correct? If your intention was to use your night protection of Kayi to support your vote on Laterallus22, why did you soft claim twice first?

I have some more questions for Mute, but please answer these as soon as possible.

...**** I have no idea how to try and break this up like I normally'd like to. So, I'll use bullet points for each question you posed, so just follow that pattern if anyone reading is confused.

...also ****ing quotes I've made won't format right in preview. I don't know why they won't.
If they format themselves within the post proper properly, then hoorah. otherwise I apologize everyone but I've run out of ideas to fix the issue.


[*]What happened? Hell if I even remember. Like Mastin, I play the game with my gut and my head, with an attempt to use both equally. (e.g. use my gut to feel out suspicions then use my head to verify/debunk them) I can't recall what my mental track was during that time frame.

What changed? Well, first I'll address that I don't like your wording of this question. Trendall was my second main target of suspicion, after I felt that he was teamed up with my first scum suspect, Lat22. So, why you're trying to imply I had suspicions of trendall exclusively before I did is a mystery. But, to answer you? Gameplay happened.

[*]Culture shock. I've already gone over this to the point where others were fed-up with hearing it from me. To answer this question, click that link, then look at my post above it.

[*]For my own sake, I'll copy-paste this question.

This was in answer to Jay asking why did you start suspecting Laterallus22. It was in Day 1.

This was in answer to Laterallus22 asking what was scummy about his start of Day 2 actions. Can you explain the contradiction in these two posts?

First... did you even

read

post # 189? If not, then allow me to answer your question you've just posed, by giving you my answer from post # 189.

Rather, I will be observing his post style and trying to decipher the rhythm behind them at a later time (am exhausted atm, navy training classes, memorization, the standings and faces; lot of stuff to memorize). Also, as I see that he said he is prepared to hammer beef without addressing my placing a vote on him.

I'm ready to hammer Beefster some time tomorrow unless anyone has any objections.

I don't know but he's been adamantly suspecting of beef anyways. Like I said, I am tired so I apologize if this is at all incoherent.

Suspicion in the first part would be better fitted to a FoS, when what I had in mind then was EGMEOY.

Personal gripe: if you're going to question someone, and you're going to use their past words against them, for the love of God

please

keep your arguments intact and don't pull just bits and pieces for your case. That's terrible case making as it could be twisted to implicate someone in so many things.

[*]Because discussion would bring people to the game? My mindset was this: if people are posting, then discussion will follow normally. Given the game it could be steered to be about the game. While I'm confused you're questioning my bringing the intent for discussion into question, the nature of it is sensible.

[*]At the time I wasn't even aware of soft-claiming. To be specific, the term itself. My original mindset was akin to combining breadcrumbing to soft-claiming. But, why allude? So I didn't have to just outright give my role. Personally, I'd prefer to have a post leading up to the reveal, instead of something like:

I am the doctor. I protected townsperson A, and townsperson B is attacking A.

Fixed tags.

[Mute]

Alright guys, I tried to get a replacement in before I left. No one is biting right now. Sorry, but have a Merry Christmas!

@Mod: Is this directed to having a replacement for Yenros?
Also, vote count s'il vous plait?

[Mute]

Ghost, I'm not going to bother trying to tell you the rationale for my reveal, I've already done so twice iirc. I protected Kayi N1, no one was killed, soon after the day started L22 voted for Kayi. I had suspicions of him from D1, and his action then in D2 to me confirmed he was scum. Call it poor play if you want, that was what it was. I'm not removing my vote from Nacho8 as the slot he's currently playing in is scum to me and apparently Neruz believes that as well. If I were really scum, wouldn't the real doctor have done some sorta breadcrumb laying, to a counter claim by now?

This also allows Mute to possibly mask bad play, because no one's that dumb, right, while we wrestle with WIFOM and stare right past him.

First game on site, in the newbie section. It's entirely possible and entirely the case that it was bad play on my part. If you don't wanna accept that and continue thinking I'm scum, go right ahead.

Fixed tags.

[Mute]

@ Mute

Can you elaborate why you think Laterallus22 starting Day 2 with a vote of Kayi makes him seem scummy? I agree with Trendall on this point.

If Nacho is mafia, then Mute's argument against him was still terrible and irrelevant and was just correct by coincidence.

If it matters, last night I protected Neruz. Figured that the scum'd rather target someone who was causing an uproar, and it was a toss-up between you and him if they were going to kill anyone.

I've got crazy dumb luck, or there was no kill again.

Why did you post this?

Your reaction seems rather silly as well, as common sense would tell you a doctor generally can't protect ones self from harm.

Mastin's reaction was surprise that you did not die. This argument of yours makes no sense. Can you clarify?

At the time you made your claim, the town momentum was heading straight for no-lynch. It was only your claim which derailed that momentum and moved the town towards wanting a lynch. Were you aware that your claim would have that result?

Why'd I post that?
It relates to whom I suspected to be scum, and my understanding of their logic. I suspect and, in my eyes, confirm Nacho8 as scum. towards the end of D2 there were mainly two people who were putting up a lot of arguments towards the scum, which were Neruz and Mastin. I see Neruz as town entirely. It's for that reason, that he was outspoken in D2 and that I see him as town as to why I chose to protect him.

But, as I've already said, I feel Lat22/Nacho8 is scum. Likely the setup being used I feel is "2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies." This is just a guess. Why? If there were a role blocker, then they'd have blocked my protect and there'd be more than one player dead currently.

And mentioning "playing to your wincon;" why would the mafia

not have made a single kill this entire game

? That is highly erratic and foolish. It's for that reason I believe I've out-maneuvered the mafia and predicted their targets each night. I made that post because as I'm as amazed as everyone else I'm still alive.

And why make that argument? Assume Mastin is scum. Assume further that mafia chose me to die and assume they assumed I protected myself. Lot of assumptions, yes, I am aware. That was the rational.

And no I was not aware of that specific outcome. I knew that with my claim, and others having their doubts to L22's alignment, that he'd be lynched that day. Other than that, the discussion of whether a no-lynch -v- lynch discussion never came to mind.

If he was the doc, he'd be useless either way so lynching him is no more costly than lynching a claimed VT. But more probable he's a scum who decided to gambit without a plan.

...Tell me how a power role is ever useless please.



And a terrible aside, Ghostlin please get peoples names right.

[Mute]

@Mod: Vote count please?

And if I am lynched, and when I flip town doc, then all I can ask is to not take my suspicions as moot.

[Mute]

I'm actually ok with lynching Mute at this juncture, purely because of that line. If Mute was

actually

the Doctor, he'd know that the Doctor cannot protect himself. I cannot see any possible way Mute could be a town Doctor and not know that.

I already said I couldn't protect myself.

[Mute]

Thanks trend.
Gonna ninja with a Bah! post.

Game did help me learn some things, and hopefully with my next game my play will be better. Thanks for the game guys, was fun.

[Mute]

I'll be polite and hold back on my commentary until it's officially post-game. I still feel like I owe you all some explanations. Not to mention, I have a lot to say on matters relating to this game.

*This post is an echo coming from a graveyard*
I'd like to hear as well.
Alas I shall have to wait.

[Mute]

Thanks for the, well... iuno, congratulations guy? o-0

Honestly, my protecting of Kayi was a fluke. There was no real "hmm, if I were mafia who'd I kill..." It was simply "pick a name out of a hat." That was sheer luck. It worked, however, so yay. Neruz though was a calculated protect. As I said in-game, I knew that scum would target one of the more vocal members hunting that day, which to me were Mastin and Neruz. I figured scum would use mastin's walls to push for a lynch during the day, something along the lines of "lets just lynch him on policy; no one wants to read those walls and he half the time uses vague and side-stepping arguments."

I've gotta say I didn't like that Nacho wasn't lynched D2 as well, but that's mostly my fault, as has been pointed out, that my ability to make arguments and defend myself is, for lack of a better term, bad. I took a risk ousting myself as Doc, but I had been suspicious of L22 before hand, and from what I've seen off-site, usually the first people to post in a thread, after the start of a new day, where they begin with a vote for someone, is 2/5 times scum.

I understood I was going to be lynched D3, or 4, whichever it was, because I had no way to defend myself, as I had all of my evidence out on the table already from my POV and couldn't think of a new way to present it in a clear manner. I knew that no one but scum would believe I was the doctor based solely on "I protected X and Y, so I am the doctor." The whole game was a very fun and enlightening experience, and I enjoyed my back and forths with several people here.

Mastin was scum the whole time?!? I was honestly shocked when I saw that. Nacho/L22 I knew was scum, but I always suspected Trend was his partner before his hammer on me, just because he never hammered Nacho.

Concission/Ghost/DLG, you guys were great for bringing to light for me the need to develop arguments and reinforce them better. As it happens this game was one where I was learning newer things as I went along, so in the start I was hampered by that and I have to say thanks for showing me that flaw. Mastin you deserve credit for that as well, but your walls of text were off putting for the most part I hate to admit. =|
Also @Ghostlin: I had no other "solid" evidence to use against him. At the time I was inept at using evidence to construct arguments to orchestrate a wagon against someone. Me ousting myself was bad, sure, but had Kayi not been the target of a kill that night I wouldn't have ousted myself at all.

@Mod:

vote count please

I kid I kid. This was a fun game and thank you for running it smoothly. Also, I'm glad you enjoyed it as well.



I'm sorry if my post here came off as pompous, or tooting my own horn, but I was surprised as much as the scum that I was successful in my role of Doctor. Finding out that was the case after all and not "scum didn't NK anyone" is a kind of boost for my ego. I apologize. =x

[Mute]

was doing the what I felt was good (albeit slightly unorthodox and not necessarily correct) play...and then, you lynched him.

I like doing the unorthodox. If it's better to go with the mainstream I'll do it but I prefer to play my own way, which just happens to be that.

Here's a question, and something I sorta noticed: why was it that, after X is killed by either lynch or NK, their past arguments towards X being Y are dismissed, or only mentioned in passing? If a person is lynched and is town wouldn't their arguments towards a person be a pretty good tool if they suspect X to be scum, and later lynches/NK's seem to vilify that stance?

[Mute]

Yeah that does help clear things up DLG, thanks.