Mini 1069 - Hospital Madness Mafia (Game Over!)

[Enigma]

Actually I wanted to say this.

If you think NS was "obv town" and you soft claimed doc, why not protect him??
Afaik I think Cooldog did us a favor eradicating us of NS.

[chesskid3]

because I didn't think cooldog was going to be stupid enough to shoot him, that's why.

[chesskid3]

You lost your townread and went to a scumread in one post, btw. It was quite impressive, I've never had a read changed so fast before.

[Tasky]

You lost your townread and went to a scumread in one post, btw. It was quite impressive, I've never had a read changed so fast before.

what exactly about Enigma's post made you change his mind about him (I guess it's the part you bolded, but I'd like to make sure)? And why? What about the part you bolded is scummy?

[Enigma]

Because apparently I don't find NS "obv town", but hey I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
Chess has gone a bit delusional I think.

[chesskid3]

Tone was not town in the slightest.

[chesskid3]

and now ad hom. confirm vote

[Tasky]

Tone was not town in the slightest.

care to explain better?

[chesskid3]

Tone was not town in the slightest.

care to explain better?

not really, no.

[Tasky]

chesskid, you claim in this post, that there is a large amount of info to get. I want to see that info.

chesskid, don't forget to answer this, please.

[Charnel]

Because apparently I don't find NS "obv town", but hey I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
Chess has gone a bit delusional I think.

CHESSKID, DRINK A VIRTUAL GLASS OF WATER, AND DON'T COME BACK BEFORE YOU THINK YOU ARE CALM AGAIN

Seriously. You pushed through a townlynch, ON NO CASE OF ANY VALUE. You even try to make it sound like it was something good, as it saved NS, the person half of the game wanted to lynch. Now, you are voting the single most reasonable person in the game. I'm quite certain that scum wouldn't be so stupid to go for the towniest player in the game already on day 2, but as town you are doing a very very poor job.

vote uprising

. Lets not forget. Chess may be stupid, and he might be scum, but lets not forget the players that are lurking.

[Charnel]

Stole it and corrected for NS's fakehammer.

[6] chesskid3 -

TheLonging

, Moospiker,

Nobody Special

,

Wingless

, CooLDoG, Zang

[6] CooLDoG - Tasky, chesskid3,

Wingless

, Uprising,

Nobody Special

, Exe

[6]

Nobody Special

- CooLDoG, Exe, Slaxx, Tasky, chesskid3, Moospiker

[6] Moospiker - Uprising,

TheLonging

, Exe, CooLDoG,

Nobody Special

,

Wingless

[7]

TheLonging

- chesskid3, Tasky, Zang, Uprising,

Nobody Special

, CooLDoG, Exe

Taking Cooldog as not-mafia, one thing to note is how Uprising seems to follow chesskid3. It is a point in favor of chesskid, not of Uprising. Uprising has only "lead" one wagon, but this is not the complete truth: her vote had been there for 5 pages, and she never had the intention to get people on the wagon. TL jumped on later and it was Exe that finally got the wagon on me started. Most people that dropped off the NS wagon came to me. My wagon was surpringly filled with townies, but seen Moo's play I can't blame you. A lurker lynch would have been quite good. The only one that really deserves attention is Uprising, who parked her vote on me.

From yesterday's post about lingering players on wagons:

[4] chesskid3 -

TheLonging

, Moospiker,

Nobody Special

, CooLDoG

[4] Charnel - Uprising,

TheLonging

,

Nobody Special

,

Wingless

The TL lynch was with the uprising case being better the third piece of information. I don't blame Exe for hammering,but I do blame the players that joined so quickly on a shitty case to stay there. Tasky seems good now, and he pronounced that he was in favor of the TL lynch, so ok, he is the towniest of the bunch, but Uprising, Zang aren't looking good.

The next notable thing is how often CooLDog and Exe come up.

Cooldog, as soon as you start killing someone I really want to stay, you are going to go

.


Then, as a last thing, we have the problem of the people not doing a thing. These were the active wagons, so it pays to look at the counterwagons. The players not on those weren't trying to play the game. And who were not voting?

with chesskid's L-1

[2] Nobody Special - Exe, chesskid3

Not Voting (2): bv310, Uprising

with chesskid's second L-1

[2] CooLDoG - Tasky, chesskid3

Not Voting (2): bv310, Uprising

with Cooldog's L-1

[3] chesskid3 -

TheLonging

, Moospiker, CooLDoG

Not Voting (1): bv310

with NS's L-1

[2] Moospiker - Uprising,

TheLonging

[2] Enigma -

Wingless

, Zang

with Charnels L-1

Not Voting (4): Tasky, Slaxx, chesskid3, Moospiker

with TL's L-1

[3] Uprising - Enigma, Charnel, Lrdwhyt
Not Voting (1):

Wingless

(exe hammered)

who are we missing? So, the inactives in each caseZ (corrected for mod's lazyness to replace people):

Enigma, Tasky and Uprising.
Uprising, Enigma and Exe (because Chess switched, two different results)

Enigma, Zang

Enigma and NS

Tasky, Slaxx, chesskid3, Moospiker, Zang and Enigma

Wingless and Zang

The obvious weird thing is the absolute lazyness during Moospikers L-1.

Then

sorry chesskid

. Your reasons might be wrong, but Enigma seriously needs another look. He is strategically avoiding wagons. With so many L-1 wagons, without hammer, one might think that scum didn't support them (a normal lynch would have been there usually, esspecially seen the amount of time people were at L-1. Scum were either on the wagon, or didn't dare to join at any moment.

Zang and Enigman come up badly from this, they lurk/active lurk.


I'm completely aware that this is a jumbled mess of data. Please ask what you don't understand, and I'll make a separate post about it (that would have been the smart move anyway.)

[Enigma]

Strategically avoiding wagons as scum?

Umm the strategic move would have been to make up some stupid reason to hammer TL with the deadline so close rather try try and force a wagon onto someone else.
And I had my vote in one place all of yesterday, and I'm sure the reasons which I kept it there are valid.

[Charnel]

Look, if I'm scum, I will make sure that I have valid reasons too. However, you were not actively participating in the game. It is active lurking.

and you really picked out the last counterwagon to show you are different (while in 4 cases, you were nowhere).

So, charnel's list. I'm leaving CooLDog off, because he is of no interest to me at the moment, and my stance on him should be clear to everybody. I don't have an idea where to post him on my list.

Uprising
Zang
Enigma
Exe
Tasky
Chesskid
Lrd

[CooLDoG]

@Chesskid, stop defending zang, stop defended NS (he's already dead). Post a case on enigma or gtfo. Enigma has created more content then you could dream of posting. Tasky isn't scum he's been trying to scumhunt in his VI way... Null at best. Also chesskid you should have know I would have killed NS after I was an avid pusher of his wagon all day-1.

fos: chesskid

Zang hasn't posted much (the least actually) but, oddly enough, has never gotten a prod... hmmmm... active lurking much? And after a quick re-read that last vote on chesskid wagon doesn't look very good (possible bus?).

unvote, vote zang

@Tasky, I like the posting a bit better now, but I still think your VI, just because you catch scum doesn't mean you are or are not a VI.

[Exe]

Interesting trends from the vote analyses.

Strategically avoiding wagons as scum?

Umm the strategic move would have been to make up some stupid reason to hammer TL with the deadline so close rather try try and force a wagon onto someone else.
And I had my vote in one place all of yesterday, and I'm sure the reasons which I kept it there are valid.

That's strategic for part of the scumteam to do. However, it's very common for at least one scum member to try to park his vote on someone who will seemingly never be lynched (and therefore will never actually flip town) in order to stay away from the mislynches that the scum may push through.
And those trends definitely suggest that. Major scum points.

However, something else that I would note:

The constant L-1 without flips is extremely fishy, and I've been reading and rereading those wagons to figure out why the lynches never went through.
Finally I've had my eureka moment.

A series of failed L-1 wagons would suggest that somehow the scum were lacking in their force. They somehow didn't have the teamwork there to pull it off, as though someone on the scumteam wasn't playing.
This led me to the conclusion that I should look at any actual lurkers. And while it is not logical to think that inactivity = scummy, this situation would suggest that the scum were a man weak.

And who has been inactive nearly the entire time? BV/Slaxx/Lrdwhyt
This, combined with the fact that he was the last joiner on the TL counterwagon (suggesting scum trying to look town as a mislynch was coming) makes me

very

suspicious of the slot.

So that adds Lrdwhyt to my list of scum suspects. Note though that the case is based purely on vote analysis, and so I'd prefer to go after Zang, whose actual activity was scummy.

[CooLDoG]

nice specualtion Exe, however like the last line of your post says, I prefer to go after solid tells at this point... Good idea though.

[chesskid3]

because I'm rather pissed off, you get the short version analysis.

At most 1 scum on the TL wagon, since if he flipped town the wagon was going to look like shit. That narrows 2 more scum down to 5 people, 2 of whom are dead.
[7] TheLonging - chesskid3, Tasky, Zang, Uprising,

Nobody Special

, CooLDoG, Exe
[5]NotTheLonging - Enigma,Lrd,Charnel,

Wingless

,

TheLonging

Enigma for scum.

gg.

[chesskid3]

Even if 2 scum on the TL wagon, Enigma is still scum, btw. That just changes whether or not lrd is scum.

[Uprising]

Guys, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for lurking and making excuses. I'm really sick right now and trying to study for midterms. It's become hard to do anything for more than ten minutes at a time. I'm rereading what we have of today.

I deeply disagree with chesskid. Enigma is not scum.

[quote="chesskid3]also who else notices how all of the sudden there's a push for a switch to Uprising, and I'm being accused by (TL/Tasky/Uprising) for sticking with TL?[/quote]

I don't remember accusing you, however, I don't think I was making all that much sense.



Scum to Null to Town

Zang
Lrdwhyt
---
Chesskid3
Charnel
Tasky
---
Exe
Enigma
CooLDoG

As for explanations,

CooLDoG - is town. His revealed role PM did say that the victim would die of a heart attack, right? I'm sure a fake role PM probably wouldn't have the same flavour of a kill (I'm hoping).
Exe - is town. Although he did express a willingness to hammer, it took him longer than I'd've expected him to as scum. I know not everyone plays scum the same way I do.


---
I have to go now, I'll finish these up as soon as I can, which will probably be closer to my dinner time today.

[Uprising]

Also, I apparently fail at quoting.

[chesskid3]

^My name is Uprising. I sheep everyone else's scumreads and put the possible SK as #1 on my townlist.

[Zang]

@Zang: Those two quotes are not contradictory at all. During Day 1, I thought you seemed pro-town for most of it. Now that we have more information, it reads differently. No contradiction there.

I thought you were saying that you thought my day 1 play was town instead of saying the you thought my day 1 play was town during day 1.

And your "2 votes is not a wagon" is a semantics argument that strawman's the point. You still heavily sheeped two people as the day went on longer. That's scummy.

I don't see how.

And what exactly is the reason for your vote?

The same as before. I want to see if you'll start scumhunting.

Where/why do you think did chesskid's case fail?

What?

If chesskid is scum, I still do not believe that scum would have been completely off the wagon, as usually at least one scum is always bussing (considering that chesskid's play was far from being pro-town), probably one (but likely not both) one out of Charnel and Zang scum in that case.

But if I was scum, why would I put my scum buddy at L-1?

because I didn't think cooldog was going to be stupid enough to shoot him, that's why.

Then who did you protect?

Zang hasn't posted much (the least actually) but, oddly enough, has never gotten a prod... hmmmm... active lurking much? And after a quick re-read that last vote on chesskid wagon doesn't look very good (possible bus?). unvote, vote zang

I got prodded twice. And what about my vote on chesskid isn't very good?

[chesskid3]

Why does it matter who I protected?

[Lrdwhyt]

I cannot explain my behaviour.

My suspicions...
I don't think chess is scum because he thinks I'm scum, ftr.
He is being overly eager about getting TL lynched ASAP.
I'm probably wrong, but it's fine. If he dies and I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Wingless isn't giving me scumvibes and his recent posts don't show him as scum to me.
Ditto for Enigma.

Is that an outright refusal to explain, or what? Are you claiming that there is no change in behaviour, or that you have a reason for not wanting to explain?

You never answered this. Stop avoiding it, Uprising.

Uprising town -> Exe scum

I'm pretty sure Exe isn't scum.

You keep making baseless assertions. Explain yourself.

quick (very quick) iso of UP reveals that she has never given a reason for any of her votes...

!) why haven't you given a reason for any of your votes?
@) why are you so indecisive?
#) what are your town+scum reads?

I may have given some reason, however it may have not sounded like it. If I didn't given reasons, it was because I was uncertain.

I'm always extraordinarily indecisive, regardless of alignment (and in real life).

This...is a lie. Seriously. At this point, I'm going to take a guess and say you're a scum who doesn't know how to act like town and tried pretending this is how you always play, not thinking anyone would notice the drastic change in style.

VOTE: Uprising

This seems like the best vote to me, unless she can explain why she's town and playing differently.

Interesting trends from the vote analyses.

Strategically avoiding wagons as scum?

Umm the strategic move would have been to make up some stupid reason to hammer TL with the deadline so close rather try try and force a wagon onto someone else.
And I had my vote in one place all of yesterday, and I'm sure the reasons which I kept it there are valid.

That's strategic for part of the scumteam to do. However, it's very common for at least one scum member to try to park his vote on someone who will seemingly never be lynched (and therefore will never actually flip town) in order to stay away from the mislynches that the scum may push through.
And those trends definitely suggest that. Major scum points.

However, something else that I would note:

The constant L-1 without flips is extremely fishy, and I've been reading and rereading those wagons to figure out why the lynches never went through.
Finally I've had my eureka moment.

A series of failed L-1 wagons would suggest that somehow the scum were lacking in their force. They somehow didn't have the teamwork there to pull it off, as though someone on the scumteam wasn't playing.
This led me to the conclusion that I should look at any actual lurkers. And while it is not logical to think that inactivity = scummy, this situation would suggest that the scum were a man weak.

And who has been inactive nearly the entire time? BV/Slaxx/Lrdwhyt
This, combined with the fact that he was the last joiner on the TL counterwagon (suggesting scum trying to look town as a mislynch was coming) makes me

very

suspicious of the slot.

So that adds Lrdwhyt to my list of scum suspects. Note though that the case is based purely on vote analysis, and so I'd prefer to go after Zang, whose actual activity was scummy.

I wasn't really there, so I can't exactly defend myself from that, but your theory suggests that there were 2 scum (if there are 3 scum, which is likely) on a lot of wagons. Who, then?