Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[TonyMontana]

2. Don't just dismiss an argument as WIFOM. Scum make careful votes. bv didn't therefore bv is town. Where's the WIFOM.

The wifom is right there. Look it up if you can't see it. Also, bv can serve fine as possible buddy, seeing as you joined forces in much the same way Hop and DB did.

[Empking]

2. Don't just dismiss an argument as WIFOM. Scum make careful votes. bv didn't therefore bv is town. Where's the WIFOM.

The wifom is right there. Look it up if you can't see it. Also, bv can serve fine as possible buddy, seeing as you joined forces in much the same way Hop and DB did.

I think I see where you're coming from but if that's the case then all town tells are subject to WIFOM. There are some actions that scum just won't take or are unable to fake. bv has committed WIFOM.

To respond to your last point; that's just factually wrong.
1. Me and bv both voted Hop. DB and Hop have been very careful in making sure they don't vote the same player (even though it looks unnatural IMO)
2. bv hasn't mentioned myself (I don't think). Unlike Hop and DB.
3. Neither bv nor myself have turned a sudden u-turn on one another despite considering them the scummiest player previously.

(Oh yeah. Reading through your first post again. I'm not going to take the reason I suspect SV and GW to my grave. I'm going to take the fact that a case is a persuasive tool with me till I die.)

[Doombunny9]

I've got four scum reads on players. That's why I'm not tunelling.

Tunneling isn't when you only have one read on a player. It's when you're 100% convinced that someone is scum that you're almost unwilling to look at anything or anyone else. (In this case you are so convinsed on HOMJ being scum hard enough that you're ignoring your other scum reads on other people)

Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies. Who are my buddies?

"I don't have any clear buddies so I must be town!" Come on now... Maybe its only because you've only really been talking about HOMJ this game XD

also, this thread needs moar SV, post restriction or not.

[Empking]

I've got four scum reads on players. That's why I'm not tunelling.

Tunneling isn't when you only have one read on a player. It's when you're 100% convinced that someone is scum that you're almost unwilling to look at anything or anyone else. (In this case you are so convinsed on HOMJ being scum hard enough that you're ignoring your other scum reads on other people)

I am willing to look at other players but Hop is both clearly scum and the largest wagon on one of the definite scum (You, SV and Hop). I have absolutely no reason to deal with you or SV (since I'm already convince of your being scum and Hop has the biggest wagon) and I couldn't try and get a better read on GW because he's just been replaced and his replacement isn't really in the game yet.

"I don't have any clear buddies so I must be town!" Come on now... Maybe its only because you've only really been talking about HOMJ this game XD

also, this thread needs moar SV, post restriction or not.

"I'm clearly strawmanning an argument so I must be town" Come on now...Also I'm pretty sure that I've talked about you and bv as much as Hop recently.

[PogoStick]

1. Just because someone has the largest wagon doesn't mean ignore everyone else

2. No it's not straw man, you totally implied that you are not buddying, and there is no reason to imply that if not trying to imply you are town

3. You quickly gravitated to bv, looks sort of like buddying to me

[Empking]

1. Just because someone has the largest wagon doesn't mean ignore everyone else

Give me an example of something I should be doing. Why should I do it?

2. No it's not straw man, you totally implied that you are not buddying, and there is no reason to imply that if not trying to imply you are town

1. I didn't imply that I wasn't "buddying" but I think I get what you mean.
2. TM: Note the quick defense of DB.
3. Do you know the definition of "must"? Tts the "must" that's the problem.

3. You quickly gravitated to bv, looks sort of like buddying to me

How did I gravitate to bv?

[PogoStick]

You should be providing your cases on others
I'm not defending, more like pointng out the fact that you had no reason to say you are no buddying unless you are trying to clear yourself as town. Cause only scum is accused of buddying so by saying you are not buddying is declaring yourself as town

You gravitate cause you declare him as town

[Empking]

Hop, you gave me the example now I'm looking for a reason.

2. No it's not straw man

I'm not defending

LAL?

(Also, the fact that Hop ignore the "must" thing that was the majority of my argument with regards to that leads me to believe that he knows he's wrong.)

[PogoStick]

Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply. But I haven't ruled him out as scum, he is on my radar too

[PogoStick]

Saying the truth is not defending, there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.

[Empking]

Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply.

No it wasn't. And to stop this from turning into a yes-no-yes-no thing. SV and GW are my other two suspects, neither of them have an obvious buddy (especially not SV who is the SK (OK, GW does have two obvious partners but that's just because they're obvious scum not in relation to GW.))

Saying the truth is not

necessarily

defending,

FTFY

there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.

Wrong.

[PogoStick]

Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weight

[Empking]

Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weight

"I can't argue with the insurmountable logic that Empking clearly thinks scum without buddies exist (and therefore he can't possibly think that a player without any obvious buddies MUST be town). So I'll just pretend its all opinion"

[PogoStick]

Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply.

No it wasn't. And to stop this from turning into a yes-no-yes-no thing. SV and GW are my other two suspects, neither of them have an obvious buddy (especially not SV who is the SK (OK, GW does have two obvious partners but that's just because they're obvious scum not in relation to GW.))

THIS IS OPINION. because I already explained, when player A accuses player B of buddying, it us implying that player B must be scum (town doesn't buddy) so when Player A says "I am not buddying" this is player A's attempt to imply they are not scum because they are not buddying.

your response of "no it wasn't" is 100% opinion

there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.

Wrong.

you saying 'WRONG" is

YOUR OPINION

because in actuality my example above is 100% fact and I will outline it again

YOU

tried to say I was buddying, there is only one reason to accuse somebody of buddying, which is to say I am scum.

YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

this isn't too difficult to understand, you keep trying to spin it but the fact remains is

you

made the comment, not me

you think I am buddying, that is your opinion, but trying to imply you have not buddied with anyone is your attempt to prove you as being town which is what you got called out on in which you replied

straw man

[PogoStick]

Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weight

"I can't argue with the insurmountable logic that Empking clearly thinks scum without buddies exist (and therefore he can't possibly think that a player without any obvious buddies MUST be town). So I'll just pretend its all opinion"

straw man much?

[Empking]

YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

OK, one of two things are definitely true now.

1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.

Which is it?

[PogoStick]

YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

OK, one of two things are definitely true now.

1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.

Which is it?

1. yes I have heard of SKs but I am not trying to speculate if we have them in this game because we don't have nearly enough information to do so
2. No I am not scum
3. so by that statement if you are not implying you are town, does that mean you are implying you are SK? because that would make town's job that much easier because now you threw it out there, you are either implying one of those 2 things.

[Empking]

YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

OK, one of two things are definitely true now.

1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.

Which is it?

1. yes I have heard of SKs but I am not trying to speculate if we have them in this game because we don't have nearly enough information to do so
2. No I am not scum
3. so by that statement if you are not implying you are town, does that mean you are implying you are SK? because that would make town's job that much easier because now you threw it out there, you are either implying one of those 2 things.

I'm implying nothing.

[PogoStick]

than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

[Empking]

than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

1. I never accused somebody of "buddying" nor asked who I "buddied" I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.

[PogoStick]

not sure when the mod will get back on but my quick vote count shows

[3] HopOnMyJoystick - Empking, bv310, Zang
[3] Empking - Doombunny9, hoponmyjoystick, tony
[1] bv310 - smargaret

with 5 to lynch so Myself and Emp are both L-2

[PogoStick]

than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

1. I never accused somebody of "buddying"

nor asked who I "buddied"

I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.

TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies.

Who are my buddies?

basically yes you did

[Empking]

than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

1. I never accused somebody of "buddying"

nor asked who I "buddied"

I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.

TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies.

Who are my buddies?

basically yes you did

See, at this point you're just lying in a way that simply can't be beneficial to your win con. This is why people call you a VI.

[PogoStick]

how did I lie?

also calling someone a VI I have learned on site is more of a scum tactic than a town tactic

asking someone "who are my buddies" is basically the same as asking "who I buddied" just worded differently

nobody is buddying you but you tried to buddy to BV by immediately calling him pro-town, trying to get him on your side ASAP

and I consider being called a VI an insult so I would ask you to not do it again.

[Empking]

how did I lie?

also calling someone a VI I have learned on site is more of a scum tactic than a town tactic

asking someone "who are my buddies" is basically the same as asking "who I buddied" just worded differently

Not at all. You don't buddy your buddies (or at least its not buddying when you do it to your buddies).

nobody is buddying you but you tried to buddy to BV by [-b]immediately[/b] calling him pro-town, trying to get him on your side ASAP

(bold mine)
Quotes please.

and I consider being called a VI an insult so I would ask you to not do it again.

That's not the way to get better at this game.