The wifom is right there. Look it up if you can't see it. Also, bv can serve fine as possible buddy, seeing as you joined forces in much the same way Hop and DB did.Empking wrote:2. Don't just dismiss an argument as WIFOM. Scum make careful votes. bv didn't therefore bv is town. Where's the WIFOM.
Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)
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TonyMontana Mafia Scum
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I think I see where you're coming from but if that's the case then all town tells are subject to WIFOM. There are some actions that scum just won't take or are unable to fake. bv has committed WIFOM.TonyMontana wrote:
The wifom is right there. Look it up if you can't see it. Also, bv can serve fine as possible buddy, seeing as you joined forces in much the same way Hop and DB did.Empking wrote:2. Don't just dismiss an argument as WIFOM. Scum make careful votes. bv didn't therefore bv is town. Where's the WIFOM.
To respond to your last point; that's just factually wrong.
1. Me and bv both voted Hop. DB and Hop have been very careful in making sure they don't vote the same player (even though it looks unnatural IMO)
2. bv hasn't mentioned myself (I don't think). Unlike Hop and DB.
3. Neither bv nor myself have turned a sudden u-turn on one another despite considering them the scummiest player previously.
(Oh yeah. Reading through your first post again. I'm not going to take the reason I suspect SV and GW to my grave. I'm going to take the fact that a case is a persuasive tool with me till I die.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Doombunny9 Mafia Scum
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Tunneling isn't when you only have one read on a player. It's when you're 100% convinced that someone is scum that you're almost unwilling to look at anything or anyone else. (In this case you are so convinsed on HOMJ being scum hard enough that you're ignoring your other scum reads on other people)Emp wrote:I've got four scum reads on players. That's why I'm not tunelling.
"I don't have any clear buddies so I must be town!" Come on now... Maybe its only because you've only really been talking about HOMJ this game XDEmp wrote:Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies. Who are my buddies?
also, this thread needs moar SV, post restriction or not.-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I am willing to look at other players but Hop is both clearly scum and the largest wagon on one of the definite scum (You, SV and Hop). I have absolutely no reason to deal with you or SV (since I'm already convince of your being scum and Hop has the biggest wagon) and I couldn't try and get a better read on GW because he's just been replaced and his replacement isn't really in the game yet.Doombunny9 wrote:
Tunneling isn't when you only have one read on a player. It's when you're 100% convinced that someone is scum that you're almost unwilling to look at anything or anyone else. (In this case you are so convinsed on HOMJ being scum hard enough that you're ignoring your other scum reads on other people)Emp wrote:I've got four scum reads on players. That's why I'm not tunelling.
"I'm clearly strawmanning an argument so I must be town" Come on now...Also I'm pretty sure that I've talked about you and bv as much as Hop recently."I don't have any clear buddies so I must be town!" Come on now... Maybe its only because you've only really been talking about HOMJ this game XD
also, this thread needs moar SV, post restriction or not.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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1. Just because someone has the largest wagon doesn't mean ignore everyone else
2. No it's not straw man, you totally implied that you are not buddying, and there is no reason to imply that if not trying to imply you are town
3. You quickly gravitated to bv, looks sort of like buddying to meShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Give me an example of something I should be doing. Why should I do it?HopOnMyJoystick wrote:1. Just because someone has the largest wagon doesn't mean ignore everyone else
1. I didn't imply that I wasn't "buddying" but I think I get what you mean.2. No it's not straw man, you totally implied that you are not buddying, and there is no reason to imply that if not trying to imply you are town
2. TM: Note the quick defense of DB.
3. Do you know the definition of "must"? Tts the "must" that's the problem.
How did I gravitate to bv?3. You quickly gravitated to bv, looks sort of like buddying to mePlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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You should be providing your cases on others
I'm not defending, more like pointng out the fact that you had no reason to say you are no buddying unless you are trying to clear yourself as town. Cause only scum is accused of buddying so by saying you are not buddying is declaring yourself as town
You gravitate cause you declare him as townShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Hop, you gave me the example now I'm looking for a reason.2. No it's not straw man
LAL?I'm not defending
(Also, the fact that Hop ignore the "must" thing that was the majority of my argument with regards to that leads me to believe that he knows he's wrong.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply. But I haven't ruled him out as scum, he is on my radar tooShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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Saying the truth is not defending, there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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No it wasn't. And to stop this from turning into a yes-no-yes-no thing. SV and GW are my other two suspects, neither of them have an obvious buddy (especially not SV who is the SK (OK, GW does have two obvious partners but that's just because they're obvious scum not in relation to GW.))HopOnMyJoystick wrote:Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply.
FTFYSaying the truth is notnecessarilydefending,
Wrong.there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weightShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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"I can't argue with the insurmountable logic that Empking clearly thinks scum without buddies exist (and therefore he can't possibly think that a player without any obvious buddies MUST be town). So I'll just pretend its all opinion"HopOnMyJoystick wrote:Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weightPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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THIS IS OPINION. because I already explained, when player A accuses player B of buddying, it us implying that player B must be scum (town doesn't buddy) so when Player A says "I am not buddying" this is player A's attempt to imply they are not scum because they are not buddying.Empking wrote:
No it wasn't. And to stop this from turning into a yes-no-yes-no thing. SV and GW are my other two suspects, neither of them have an obvious buddy (especially not SV who is the SK (OK, GW does have two obvious partners but that's just because they're obvious scum not in relation to GW.))HopOnMyJoystick wrote:Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply.
your response of "no it wasn't" is 100% opinion
you saying 'WRONG" isEmpking wrote:
Wrong.there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.YOUR OPINION
because in actuality my example above is 100% fact and I will outline it again
YOUtried to say I was buddying, there is only one reason to accuse somebody of buddying, which is to say I am scum.
YOUask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies thatYOU MUST BE TOWN
this isn't too difficult to understand, you keep trying to spin it but the fact remains isyoumade the comment, not me
you think I am buddying, that is your opinion, but trying to imply you have not buddied with anyone is your attempt to prove you as being town which is what you got called out on in which you repliedstraw manShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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straw man much?Empking wrote:
"I can't argue with the insurmountable logic that Empking clearly thinks scum without buddies exist (and therefore he can't possibly think that a player without any obvious buddies MUST be town). So I'll just pretend its all opinion"HopOnMyJoystick wrote:Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weightShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
Scum: 1-1-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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OK, one of two things are definitely true now.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:YOUask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies thatYOU MUST BE TOWN
1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.
Which is it?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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1. yes I have heard of SKs but I am not trying to speculate if we have them in this game because we don't have nearly enough information to do soEmpking wrote:
OK, one of two things are definitely true now.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:YOUask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies thatYOU MUST BE TOWN
1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.
Which is it?
2. No I am not scum
3. so by that statement if you are not implying you are town, does that mean you are implying you are SK? because that would make town's job that much easier because now you threw it out there, you are either implying one of those 2 things.ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I'm implying nothing.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:
1. yes I have heard of SKs but I am not trying to speculate if we have them in this game because we don't have nearly enough information to do soEmpking wrote:
OK, one of two things are definitely true now.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:YOUask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies thatYOU MUST BE TOWN
1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.
Which is it?
2. No I am not scum
3. so by that statement if you are not implying you are town, does that mean you are implying you are SK? because that would make town's job that much easier because now you threw it out there, you are either implying one of those 2 things.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
Scum: 1-1-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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1. I never accused somebody of "buddying" nor asked who I "buddied" I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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not sure when the mod will get back on but my quick vote count shows
[3] HopOnMyJoystick - Empking, bv310, Zang
[3] Empking - Doombunny9, hoponmyjoystick, tony
[1] bv310 - smargaret
with 5 to lynch so Myself and Emp are both L-2ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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Empking wrote:
1. I never accused somebody of "buddying"HopOnMyJoystick wrote:than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?nor asked who I "buddied"I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.Empking wrote:TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies.Who are my buddies?
basically yes you didShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
Scum: 1-1-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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See, at this point you're just lying in a way that simply can't be beneficial to your win con. This is why people call you a VI.HopOnMyJoystick wrote:Empking wrote:
1. I never accused somebody of "buddying"HopOnMyJoystick wrote:than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?nor asked who I "buddied"I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.Empking wrote:TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies.Who are my buddies?
basically yes you didPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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how did I lie?
also calling someone a VI I have learned on site is more of a scum tactic than a town tactic
asking someone "who are my buddies" is basically the same as asking "who I buddied" just worded differently
nobody is buddying you but you tried to buddy to BV by immediately calling him pro-town, trying to get him on your side ASAP
and I consider being called a VI an insult so I would ask you to not do it again.ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
Town: 0-1
Scum: 1-1-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Not at all. You don't buddy your buddies (or at least its not buddying when you do it to your buddies).HopOnMyJoystick wrote:how did I lie?
also calling someone a VI I have learned on site is more of a scum tactic than a town tactic
asking someone "who are my buddies" is basically the same as asking "who I buddied" just worded differently
(bold mine)nobody is buddying you but you tried to buddy to BV by [-b]immediately[/b] calling him pro-town, trying to get him on your side ASAP
Quotes please.
That's not the way to get better at this game.and I consider being called a VI an insult so I would ask you to not do it again.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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