Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[Ant_to_the_max]

/confirm

thanks for getting this show on the road

[Ant_to_the_max]

VOTE: AntB

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4571132
You have the wrong one Mr. Wright! He is clearly impersonating me!

(and sadly, with that, I must be off to work :/ be back in 9ish hours)

[Ant_to_the_max]

note: I'm sick, so if anything doesn't make sense there was some problem getting it out of my head and into my computer.

also guys, I am going to try and change my play for this game. I am getting better and better at this game and I would like to try to improve my always reading scummy style. I will more than likely go back to my old ways lol. But yeah, just don' t think I am scummy cuz I am not acting as scummy as usuall LOL.

So yeah

Cool story bro. This just gave me the wrong feeling.

^that was also my initial reaction. Everything was fine up to the very last sentence. How we treat this though, depends on the type of moose this is. Is he the type that will say these awkward comments often? Also, what is the reading scummy style? I think I know what he might be talking about, but I'll have to skim his old games.

Moose wagon needs some help. I want pressure, damn it.

I never like when people say the first sentence, or any form of it....
As for the second sentence...I'm pretty sure when you say your intent of pressuring, you just kinda ruin your plan. Just saying >_>

And this is scummy, why? Did you honestly believe that I could vote one of the people in my post based off of that information, fully knowing that they would most probably be scum?

I must be misunderstanding this, it sounds to me that you are admitting to being scum and damning atleast one of the other two as scum too. Surely I am reading this wrong?

Interesting point here. Hiraki is another I will probably look into.

@Hiraki: Could you possibly rephrase that sentence? Just...re-say what you mean in different words.

Those are my initial reactions right now. For better or for worse, everyone I talked about in my post caught my eye. I'm assuming when I look up moose's old games, that will probably explain his behavior.

Also, not everyone in this game has posted yet. Just under half have not gotten into this conversation yet, so please do not be hasty with lynchings.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Yeah, going to mirror Hiraki's post
I finished my finals for today and I am cranking out my post right now.

[Ant_to_the_max]

What don't you like about me calling for an information gathering pressure wagon?

That is not what I meant. I mean I hate the "dude, lynch this guy now" phases.

Now, onto Moose.
After I looked at his past games, I don't think he is scum. Look at his past games and you will see this is just who he is.

Note: in post #75 I am quoted for something I didn't say. Mr Wright's name should be there.

@Hiraki
How can you have possible Town-reads this early in the game? By the time of your post there was 6 posts and only 1 serious vote. This could be me being a VI but I can't see how that's possible.

I think this is very important to note. I will also have to agree with "can you please share" I want to know what is going on in your head.

Also, prodding Moose imo is not going to help the town.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I wasn't calling for his lynch, I was calling for more votes. There is a difference to me. When I say the guy needs rope, I want him dead. If I say I want pressure, I want him at L-2 or somewhere in the vicinity. Gets people talking, imo, and I wanted him talking. Plus Moos was ok with posting content-less posts and being sarcastic when we all had a pile of valid reasons building on him. I am and was hoping this would cause Moos to actually post something decent. It has not, and

now I'm calling for Moos to be lynched.

Bolded so there isn't confusion this time. (not sarcastic, promise) Also I agree with whoever (Hiraki or Boberz) said that Meta is a bad way to go. People can manipulate their playstyles knowing their meta will be looked at. He said he was scum. He needs to die. If they're going to come out and claim scum, that's extremely anti-town and unhelpful in any way. Moos needs rope.

I understand what you mean. Let's just call this a moot issue due to semantics. I just felt like saying those phrases

irritate

me.

Boberz, can you explain why we would need a 'distraction'? What's wrong with discussing Moose200x's behaviour? I agree his play is terrible, but we're getting a lot of nice responses from the other players about it. Like your own post 78. Why do you suddenly make a 180 turn? Do you consider sarcastic claims a scumtell?

So the town doesn't tunnel from the get go, or things don't get stale. And as other's mentioned, METAreasoning is not the most solid, but for me, it is enough to let him live now, but keep him were I can see him.

ANNNNDD yes, the joke claim makes me squirm in my seat too. I'm unsure how to treat that. (AClockworkMelon, if you are reading this, I want you to know you have really messed with my mind...hats off to you >_> *claps*)

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

Ooorrrrrr we could flush them out by watching your wagon.....just saying....
be mad after the game, not during.

And thank you Hiraki. I just wanted to know your thought process behind things.

Overall thoughts right now; Beefster is looking bad. Moose is in a "handle with care" area. Everyone else I am still working out, but thankfully some are leaning towards town.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Wait! Just quickly checking in right now, but Beefster, are you saying Boberz was overdefensive due to his chainsaw defense on Moose's wagon?

[Ant_to_the_max]

UNVOTE: AntB
VOTE: Beefster

Ant_to_the_max

: What's your opinion of Beefster's/moose's alignment? Did you leave your vote on AntB because you do think he's scum or did just not feel like taking it off?

Right now I'm feeling like Beefster's early moves were scummy. Kinda like...he was helping fuel the wagon without sticking out to much. I think you guys know what I mean here. In one of my past games, using that logic helped me identify scum early on in a game, so I'm going to try it again to see how valid of a scum tell it can be.

As for Moose, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that may just be my personality. Although, the fact (that others have pointed out before) that he has yet to give a solid attempt to make a case on someone else worries me. Viewing his games, you clearly see he is capable of scumhunting so the whole "boohoo everyone's aiming at me, how can I make a case?" post from him sticks out.

AttM isn't as active as I would like him to be, otherwise so far in the 6 in game posts (less than 1 per page) he has been consistent and gathered an shared information.

Guilty. Today I have to leave for work in 1.5 hours and will not be home till late.
Big thing though, Finals end exactly at 9:20 am Arizona time for me. After that, I'm a free bird >_>

[Ant_to_the_max]

Give me about 4 hours and I'll be done with school and will post then.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I am not good at explaining myself. So let me take this step by step why I get mad why I am tunneled d1 every game.

1. Every game I get close to being lynched day 1.
2. Early in games I do not try to find scum teams. I try more to pick up bad vibes, intentions, coaching, leading and such.
3. I can never pick up any tells from people when they are screaming "lynch moose" since town and scum alike always wanna hang me.
4. So I get frustrated when people say "hey scum hunt then" and I can't explain why I cannot scum hunt since doing so makes me seem scummy!


So, I hope that makes sense to you. I will say this as far as who I think is scum. When I was being attacked we had a new post every hour. Once my wagon kinda died and I stopped posting, everyone else stopped posting. I am not sure why that is, but I will remember to review that come d2-3 and I bet we can put some pieces together.

Yes, I understand you. But I also see this as trying to appealing to my emotions to buy yourself a townie pass. I also love how you make an accusation, but still not commit to it. I have seen how you can do better, so please do.

Oh and yet again everyone in the ****ing game is coaching moose on how to be town. Clearly not a good target for a lynch today, people.

A good target for a lynch for scum if he is town. Do you like to always lynch the VIs on D1?

And for my own sake Vig= Vigilant right? And Mini Normal games use a mod defined setup that contains "standard" mafia roles right? Probably should have asked that at the start of the game.

Preview Edit:
I see Moose has committed a bit. I'll look into everyone else's points now.

[Ant_to_the_max]

So, this is were my inexperience kinda pops up.
I wasn't sure if the Moose thing should have been pursued or not...

Big thing I am waiting for now is this

You've changed your mind very quickly as well:

Just let me do my thing for one night and if I am alive you lynch me fast. No argument from me.

Cut the crap. What are you hiding?

Right here you seem to call for more claiming from moose. Whatever opinions suits the lynch you're looking for, eh?

[Ant_to_the_max]

Gotta catch up later, on skim two things. Why does Beefster assume scum will automatically nk moose? A similar situation has happened before personally and it was devastating for the town.

Isn't that kind of the idea? The mafia will do the action worst for the town, because it's best for them. It's just how they roll.

WIFOM_to_the_max right there >_>
Just got home from work so I just skimmed things for now and just wanted to say that right now

[Ant_to_the_max]

Hiraki is obv scum. He was one of only two valid wagons at one point and nobody joined the wagon. Obv scum. Whether or not you liked the case, it really is obvious.
...
Guys you really need to run with this.

No, it is not really obvious :/
What if he is town, and the town really didn't like his wagon? That would cause it to build slowly too...

But I am willing to be open to new ideas. If werewolf can come up with a few other people that are possibly scum, I'll be happy with him. Otherwise I'll rethink my few who I am fine with lynching today

10-11 hour back to back shifts at work are not fun. So I'll have a Driod though, so I should be able to look at this from work

[Ant_to_the_max]

He's the abridged version of a plan I thought up. We should all vote for the vig selection tonight. Atleast a 9/12 majority. This is essentially a second townie lynch a the HUGE majority will greatly place more power in townie hands. Debating with myself whether it should be Beefster or a lurker, leaning on the latter. Here's the thing, since the kill doesn't affect the mislynch ratio an information kill is better.

I propose that we have a conditional statement attached to our statement.

If we lynch Beefster today, and he flips town, Werewolf should be killed by Moose. If he flips scum, then we should aim for someone else (have not made up my mind)

Reasoning is, if Beefster is indeed town, then the arguments against Werewolf are strengthened with tangible proof and he would be the next person I would want to lynch.

We need to agree to lynch someone that when they flip, we will gain the most information.

This moose alive to test him idea, wont work. He could be an anti town killing role, he could be a pro town killing role who breaks his promises (i have seen this before), he could be anything testing him will get us nowhere. I will prbably now move to a mosse lynch rather than a beefy lynch, just no quite getting the beefy stuff.

But it could work as well.

Personally, I see us gaining more information with the Lateralus Plan than just lynching Moose

[Ant_to_the_max]

I would be willing to switch. While Werewolf would not be my first choice, like I kinda hinted at before, I see the validity of the arguments against him.
At this point I see it as Beefster OR Werewolf as scum, but not both.

[Ant_to_the_max]

dismembering people sounds like something a serial killer would do rather than what a vig would do. we should not have allowed moose to live in the first place, he killed someone he did not even mention killing and is too unreliable to have around.

vote: moose200x

That is not true at all. I suggested that if Beefster was town, then more than likely Werewolf was scum. Assuming Moose and Beefster were town, when you look at the voting habits of the Werewolf slot you can come to a scummy conclusion.

Needless to say, Everything I was thinking about over the night was all on Werewolf so I don't have much more to say in this first post.

Part 2 of what I don't like about that post is the conclusion drawn.
This might be a noob mistake on my part, but for the death scenes, those should all be considered as flavor right? No stock should be taken from it imo so that seems like a scummy way to start a D2 wagon on Moose.

I'm going to reskim now

[Ant_to_the_max]

Ok. So I have some notes on the game and everyone, but there is one question I am unsure why it has not been answered yet.

Moose, you have claimed that you were a one-shot power role who has now just wasted their one shot. You have also claimed that you were town aligned.
Looking through the wiki at all the killing roles, I have not come across one that fits your description.

I want a claim out of him. With his "one shot" over with, as he said, he is pretty much a VT now, so there should be no harm at all with him claiming.

Also, how that goes down affects some of my views on people so I want this out of the way before I jump to conclusions.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I am jack of all trades. Happy?

Was not what I expected you to say, but yes, I am happy.

And you know what? I believe you too. Why? Because of this.

I also want to point out I killed werewolf so that we can look back on day and see what both main bandwagons role were.

If there is a maf RB- Boberz or substrike are town.

So, if someone got RB'ed please out yourself.

Kinda fits the weird puzzle pieces together. Now...on the flip side you could have been playing this up, but, no offense, but I highly doubt that.

With this in mind, I am going to say that Substrike is scum. Rereading through his post I get the feeling like he pulled one of those "Yeah...I see your point on that wagon guys...I'll join it at the end so I don't draw attention to myself". When Moose also let out his angry "i'm going to kill bob" Substrike got really defensive about it. Possible defending of a scum buddy here.

That is my bare bones argument right there. If you want, I'll pull up each post and state my logic behind it. It flows like this if you ISO him though
Agrees on some points against Beefster while still sticking to his main wagons. Most, if not all his scummy accusations on Beefster were just agreeing with posts made by two other people. Pushes even harder for Moose when he threatens Bob. Quietly joins the final Beefster votes while stating that the town wants to lose the game while voting for Beefster.
VOTE: Substrike22

[Ant_to_the_max]

What are you talking about? I was the first one on the Moose wagon. Did you even bother going back to look at the moose wagon before that lie came out of your mouth?

That had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said

[Ant_to_the_max]

I'm saying you joined the Beefster wagon quietly, not Moose's.
I'm also saying you got really defensive about Moose claiming that he was going to kill Bob. You then tried to push even harder for Moose after that. I'm claiming you were trying to protect a scum buddy there.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I have done, the fact that AntB 'performs' scumhunts is a massive find.

And I don't get this. Can you explain?

[Ant_to_the_max]

...I am going to take what has been said on board and adjust to the fact [Moose]'s a liability and keep an eye on him. I do expect [Moose] to pick his arse up off the floor and to start performing some investigation and start helping the town.

But remember that AntB "performs" his scumhunts. Remember that.

He said it in reference that Moose needed to do something. That is it. I'm not going to lynch someone over the definition of a word used.
perform - do: get (something) done; "I did my job" : http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=perform

What is your opinion on my case against Substrike? I know it is not as "strong" as your case, but what are your other views on it?

(Sub's vote on Beefster was actually consistent with his prior reads; I believe Sub was more afraid of getting shot instead of boberz because moose said several times yesterday he would shoot either boberz or Sub)

It wasn't inconsistent. They way he slowly added himself to the wagon throughout D1 is very scummy.

[Ant_to_the_max]

LOL...well, work was getting slow and I needed a good laugh. Thanks Lat. When I get home i'll spell everything out for you cuz it seems like you can't see the point I am trying to make because you managed to miss it completely.

[Ant_to_the_max]

playing with my new phone and like I said...work was boring >_>

Either way, sarcasm was not called for. What I am accusing Substrike of is very subtle and crafty. I can't finish my post that i'm making right now cuz im nodding off. I'll trim the edges tomorrow

[Ant_to_the_max]

#7

Also, I find myself agreeing with your sentiment on Beefster, given his posts thus far.

Up till here his attention was focused pretty much only on Moose. Here he just agrees with the case on Beefster given from Lat.

#10

LordChronos who are your top two scum reads other than beefster, and why? And what specifically do you find scummy about beefster? I see lack of content.

I kept this here to preserve the order of his posts. Note the "I see lack of content." part.

#13

I'll vote Beefster, I'd just rather vote you right now, Dekes. Funny how that post comes after that vote. Active lurking? Guess we'll find out.

Anyways, onto the hot topic of the day: Beefster. Scummy? Yes. Scummiest? No.
...
LordChronos is a close second for me behind Moos. I'd be down for either of them today.

Here is the first time he throws out the option of voting for Beefster. Note that he always hints about voting for him, but never commits to it. Just suggesting the idea and letting mob psychology do its work. Letting us come to our "own" conclusions.
Second point. LordChronos is a close second? The most you said about him was possibly active lurking? (Which is the same reason for your voting on Dekes.) Lack of content much?

#15

It's staying there this time. I'll consider switching back to Chronos if we're reaching deadline but otherwise this is the guy I want.

Switching back to Chronos? You were never voting for him in the first place. Again, suggesting to move his vote if we reach the deadline.

#16

Lord Chronos has resumed active lurking. just so it's noted.

Jab number two at Lord Chronos. Again, the only case is active lurking. Also mob psychology here again.

#23

Why does anyone want to leave moose alive after that? We really.want to let him vig boberz, assuming we.buy the power role claim?

The really defensive post about Moose claiming he was going to kill Bob. Seems pretty scared even when you don't fully buy the claim.

#25

I am not comfortable letting Moose shoot Boberz, the mod has made it clear that we're not getting a replacement or a mod kill, so my vote's staying where it is, and I implore others to join.

Also, for the record: Werewolf/Hiraki isn't striking me as scum. Her post on p. 11 detailing the case on Beefster was a pretty straight forward and valid attempt at scum hunting. I don't understand why there are 4 people on her wagon with no one looking at Mari, AntB, or Dekes, all of whom are scummier. In addition, the case (he/she? Werewolf?) makes on Beefster actually makes me ok with a Beefster vote, if we're headed that way towards deadline.

Note the "not comfortable letting Moose shoot Bob"
Again, jumping on someone else's ideas against Beefster, but not committing still. Only "if we are heading that way towards deadline". And here he also tries to raise suspicion on three other people. Possibly trying to stall out the game drawing it to the deadline.

In the end he voted Beef because he was forced by the deadline.

I don't see why scum sub would get defensive over moose shooting boberz if he's his partner. Scum distance themselves more often than not from each other, not scream at someone holding a gun to save their life. The moose interactions actually make me pause and reconsider my read because doing that as scum would be essentially a death wish since moose is a loose cannon. What is your argument for boberz scum?

Yes..."forced" by the deadline. Makes you look so innocent and not guilty of joining the wagon. Just what scum want. Seen it done before.
As for the other point, it is called a scum slip. And do I need to have a case on bob? If Substrike flips scum, I'll have some reasons there.

Max is really irritating and likely scum

I'm sorry...

Substrike: Only wagon he fully committed to was Moose's. Everyone else he just took cheap jabs at and fueled the other wagons but never joined them till he was "forced" to

[Ant_to_the_max]

2 Things I'm trying to understand,

1) Do you expect him to vote for someone who is not their highest suspicion and vote/push for smaller secondaries instead?
2) Still don't see boberz scum, you need to spell this out for me.

1) He could have voted for either of them when he realized the Moose wagon was dead. Instead he chose to vote for Dekes. No one was on his wagon. Only reason he voted for him was for not posting when Dekes said he would. Doesn't make sense here.
2) I'm not making a case on Bob here...Merely pointing out that if Substrike flips scum, this is a point to look into here.

Better check you can actually do this, so when?

Sorry. I'm missing what you tried to say here

i didnt protect you because i thought your death would tell us more than we would have known otherwise. if you had flipped scum, we would have had a free dead mafia and we could have analyzed your interactions with other players. i made the decision to not protect you mainly because of your refusal to state why you preferred a ww555 lynch over a beefster one. also, i could have easily lied and said that i had protected you and everyone would have no reason to think i was lying about that as i had said earlier in that day that i thought you were pro-town, but i didnt.

i dont like antb's post, saying that all 4 of us were scummy instead of committing to one side or the other. it seems opportunistic to me.

The other half of this post is missing. The part about what we would find if Bob died and flipped town...

Inconsistency in that you can't seem to get many things straight. Your getting a lot of things wrong then apologising for them, so either your trying to plant evidence or just dumb town.

You know what...I was going to say something about this, but I want you to answer my above question first Rat. If Bob died and was town, what would we have gained?

Before Rats claim, I had him as a possible scum. I was still undecided on him, but leaning more towards scum. I brought up Substrike though, because I had a stronger case on him over Rat. There are a lot of things after his claim that make me doubt it. I'll stay undecided for now, but once he answers my question, I think my mind will be made up.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Newbie 1013 (im pretty sure that was the number. I'll double check when I get home) AClockworkMelon pulled something similar. I'll dig through and find it for you. I just didn't understand what you meant.

Second point was not aimed at you. I want Rat to explain his logic without anyone's help

[Ant_to_the_max]

Anything to report Moose?

[Ant_to_the_max]

We can still roll with that.
I'm going back to bed though. Fever of 102 right now, so I really can't think strait right now.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I don't see any problem with it. You just get a scum/not scum right? No harm in that. I think it would help me start off this day

[Ant_to_the_max]

Hmmm. Well then. I think I will look into Bob being scum now. Reasons being the connections with substrike that I brought up yesterday.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Work called me in so today I can one use my phone to get here.

*grabs some popcorn and waits for anti*

[Ant_to_the_max]

Yeah Dekes, I was going to get cracking on that today, but like I said, I got called into work and will be away from my computer all day.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Well, for right now at least, you will get that recap on Bob from me.

My initial connections were found while ISOing Substrike. When Moose claimed that he was going to shot Bob, Substrike got really defensive and started to push even harder for a Moose lynch. He said he "wasn't comfortable" with Bob dying. Big red flag right there for me, and now that Sub flipped scum, it is something that is nagging at me.

Now, ISOing Bob for anything this are some posts that stuck out to me

#179

I dont like the substrike wagon.

Defense for Sub wagon early on. No follow up here because there was nothing really to follow up with.

#262

In conclusion. Town this game have been utter crap.

It is obvious from how the wagons sped up that moose is not scum. Too many people wanted him off for policy or near policy reasons. I still think a vig should hit him if only to teach him a lesson.

Hiraki is obv scum. He was one of only two valid wagons at one point and nobody joined the wagon. Obv scum. Whether or not you liked the case, it really is obvious.

Maryta is probably hiraki's partner. He is also a terribad player. Need to see a hiraki flip first.

Beefster could be third, if not AntB.

unvote vote hiraki's replacement

Guys you really need to run with this.

Here there is a couple things. The way he refers to himself and the town sometimes interests me. More on that later. I also just realized this, but obv horrible reasoning is obv horrible.

#328

Hello, town wake up. It wont work, even if the right person dies we cant prove whether moose is town or not, but we wake up tomorrow with some dead people. Whats the point other than meaning we cant evaluate as much from today.

Just everyone wagon werewolf now please. That is all you need to do. Let's not set moose a little task. If there is a vig out there hit him. If he is a vig he should hit the most scummy player (probs beef but mariyta if werewolf is scum). Fine done, whateer happens moose is considered as the lynch the next day.

---

Move on.

Another derogatory comment directed at the "town".

#338

If moose kills me he is both stupid and selfish and playing against wincon. I am not particularly scummy (I dont think) nobody has said so. If that is what he chooses to do he is wrong. But it doesnt decrease our number of mislynches allowed so I would rather lynch someone I am more sure is scum.

Ohh I like this one. A

VERY

subtle way of claiming/planting the idea of being town.

#572

Haha,I am not your pawn I do not have to respond to every thing you say to me. And tbh I have currently got the strongest point currently in play.

And wheneve people try and work together someone always cries that it is scummy, it merely proves that that person is crap.

Just going to say it here, but throughout many of his other posts pressing against werewolf, he always seems to push his cases with some sort of authority.

#586

I am not prepared to look at substrike today.

COMPLETELY avoids commenting on my case for Substrike.

#667

..."forced" by the deadline. Makes you look so innocent and not guilty of joining the wagon. Just what scum want. Seen it done before.
As for the other point, it is called a scum slip. And do I need to have a case on bob? If Substrike flips scum, I'll have some reasons there.

You said this, I am calling your bluff, when have you seen it before? I was just checking you werent spouting crap.

Meanwhile, you are not going to lynch me for 'information' if you lynch anyone you will get information, but we lynch the scummies I have not done anything remotely scummy that I can see.

Closest thing I get to him responding to my case on Substrike, and it is attacking the credibility of my argument.

And then.....busses Substrike!

If you ISO him, you get more of those "Town this" "Town that" kinda thing which I pointed out. Any time someone tried to start a wagon on him too, it is always the same defensive remark "OMG I don't think I have done anything scummy and deserve a vote"

I still am going to look at AntB next, and then Lat. Then I'll have a solid thought on these three.

Sorry, but I can't help myself here

Straight out of TomBoy:

Boberz - Town (Hammered)

lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

[Ant_to_the_max]

I also missed a few other questions/points as well. But to answer your imidiate question, I work at a Target.

Also, to everyone else, please don't run off with everything I said about Bob. There are some other points that eluded my last post about him that don't quite fit if he is scum. Those should come up when im looking at the other two.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I don't need a prod...and what I have to say requires a good chunck of time to form. I have most of what I wss going to say about you done, I just need to get home and to my computuer.

[Ant_to_the_max]

#277

@Moose
One last chance to do something pro-town. saying your vig and going after boberz needs a serious come-back now.

Just another Bob/Moose connection.

@Lateralus
Whose? if your meaning mine, Dekes and Substrike are the only ones I have >50% confidence in.

AntB makes a connection towards Sub and Dekes.

AntB has honestly been a hard person for me to make up my mind on. D1 was filled with a lot of focus on Moose from him. D2 was a shift of focus and he attacked Bob a bit, but that changed on D3.

I think my brain just melted...

You were attacking eac other throughout D1, then with absolutely no indication at all you buddying up as though you've been peachy all along.
Leaves me thinking you've ha d the chance to discuss things when others haven't...

I think we can ask this about you and Bob now.

There was some buddying between Bob and AntB D1. Might just be me here, but those "notes" just seem shotty for notes on D3. Doesn't seem like there is much content from someone taking notes if they have been throughout the game.

I genuinely think that is ther worst case I have ever seen. None of it is scummy, and nobody has tried to explain why it is scummy.
Not to mention the OMGUS element of this from ATTM

What OMGUS element? And to everyone else, this is what I tried to point out in my previous post on Bob.
Although the thing that has been bothering me the most is, Moose claimed on D1 that he was going to shoot either Bob or Sub. With Sub flipping scum, and Bob possibly being another, why would Moose be alive today? Maybe it would have been to obvious, but this is just WIFOM stuff here.

Only other person I would consider lynching today is Lat. Way I see it is AntB/Bob/Lat is a 2/3 chance to nail scum. I'm calling it now, but whenever I read through Lat's posts, I usually end up getting anywhere from a "meh" to a "very small slight town favor" read on him. I would be willing to off AntB today. Either way, there will be one more day.

[Ant_to_the_max]

He was my first pick going into today. And looking at the "confirmed" town, by PoE I come up with Bob/AntB/Lat. As for not voting, for me it is a numbers thing. I would rather have a plan going into the next day and not a quick hammer.

[Ant_to_the_max]

@MOD: post #753 has Dekes voting for AntB, so AntB should be at L-2

We are the only viable wagons.

By the end of today I'll throw my vote on AntB. Unless you guys want to wait around for Moose's replacement.

Votecounts have been fixed. Please accept my apologies. ~~NS

[Ant_to_the_max]

Nope, I just said I had nothing to claim...

@Antihero
There's also the possibility of a naive investigation. A cop clear for now doesn't leave much to go on and I would press anyone pushing a godfather case.

Anyone else find the first part odd?

A naive Jack of All Trades?

No need for the replacement, they are as near to confirmed town as I think we are going to get.

Umm yes there is. According to Moose he still has one more action up his sleeve.

[Ant_to_the_max]

That's kind of beside the point. My issue was that his willingness to abandon his position makes me question how genuinely he held it.

Reading through your ISO, I really don't see you having much issue with AntB all game, and now you're swooping in for the lazy hammer? Why do you think AntB is scum? Any other scumspects?

Oh, wasn't trying to make a point about your post through his here. Just trying to point out how his first statement through up a red flag for me, and how his second statement didn't seem like a valid setup.

Yeah, that is true. Going into D2 I never did have a problem with AntB. I even defended him against Bob's "game breaking case" on him. And at that point it wouldn't have been a lazy hammer, it would have been a lazy vote to put him at L-1. With Bob pegged as scum, that leaves you, Dekes, and AntB. Setting aside Dekes, only you and AntB are left. When I look at Lat's D1 actions, I feel that he is more town than AntB. I will be honest though, my post that I was doing my highlight ISO read on him did get very half assed.

Don't write off AttM as scum when I flip, I just get the feeling he isn't paying close attention..

I'm not paying attention?

[Ant_to_the_max]

If they voted, AntB would likely be lynched and most of us want your input before going to night.

Pretty much this. I was witholding my vote so things don't tip into the night. Antihero unvoted because of something I said. I am just waiting for your opinion now.

And a very blunt answer to AntB's question: girls

[Ant_to_the_max]

How do they not make sense with a townie's perspective?

[Ant_to_the_max]

When I look at the game through your role and assume I am town, the only pairing that makes the slightest bit of sense to me is {Boberz, Dekes}, but you want to lynch AntB, and to be honest it looks like you are just saying that for the sake of it because he is your partner and you feel he is a lost cause.

Really? (on the Bob/Dekes part) At the start of D2 I had both town/scum points towards Dekes. Once we hit mid D2 mark all doubt about him being scum went away. I have just as much reason to believe he is town as you do so I don't completely see your logic there. I could have also pushed harder for a Bob lynch today as I had more reason to on him. I'm fine with my PoE.

Boberz has slamming AntB since the start of today and there was no need to do this if they were both mafia, and clearly Boberz does not have enough town credit to win this thing on his own. The mafia would very much love to mislynch today, I really don't see Boberz doing this.

Here I don't agree with you. Bob has been going after AntB from D2. Maybe it wasn't expected that Sub was going to die and now he has to stay consistent to not look suspicious? Or he is trying to buy back town cred with the hammer/lynching the second scum in the game?
Who knows? It doesn't really matter. Just the fact that there are reasons for scum to still bus one another is enough to debunk that idea.

I will say this though. From all of Xtoxm posts, I feel a lot better about the Moose claim at the start. Any doubt in my mind is gone now on his roll.

Posting from phone. Just a heads up, won't be able to post properly for another ~24 hours.

Say your final words on the day. I plan on voting tomorrow.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Alrighty then
VOTE: AntB

[Ant_to_the_max]

Finally settling in for the night. Give me a bit to read everything. My feelings right now though...

[Ant_to_the_max]

I'd like to hear from everyone other than Mariyta on the following:

• What do you think I did (or didn't) do with my roleblock last night?
• Do you think the mafia submitted a no-kill last night?

1) Kinda of a moot point of me answering it right now, but what I was going to say was: "Logically Bob or me, but I know how people don't normally see things in the same light as me so you might have thought of something else"
2) A answer for this still might be relevant though. Sure why not? Could open up a big can of worms.

Moose claims JOAT,
Clears Mariyta,
Xtoxm comes in, confirms roleblock or atleast plays along, if this was a gambit I am going to scream at him after the game)
Mariyta makes a speed bobz vote after no result despite mylo
Xtoxm creates some gambitty crap.
Mariyta has repeated spasms at his computer (I am allowed to make fun of spasms as that is what I am suffering from now)
Xtoxm goads mariyta into further spasms whilst continuing his gambit.

Yes, this does bother me. Remind me to always policy lynch Moose D1 from now on...
Although, it is possible that Xtoxm is scum and Mariyta is town. It would be easy to play on a townie's emotions when fake investigation claiming. But there is that extra death from N1 so...yeah....*mumble mumble mumble*...

or alternatively suggest that the mafia actually submitted a no-kill last night. Because the only way Antihero can be town now is if the mafia no-killed. I think this is very unlikely.

Oh...so would my answer make me look like I am scum? I would like to point out that you actually goaded them to no kill if they did.
Although...Antihero being scum wouldn't come as a surprise to me though seeing as how it was him or AntB with Bob.

There was another point or two I wanted to bring up, but I will wait on that.

Otherwise as of right now, I don't have a strong feeling on anyone anymore. I am going to sleep on things and hopefully I can sort it out.

[Ant_to_the_max]

He was my first pick going into today. And looking at the "confirmed" town, by PoE I come up with Bob/AntB/Lat. As for not voting, for me it is a numbers thing. I would rather have a plan going into the next day and not a quick hammer.

Here is one of my quotes for you Bob.
Sadly, that strat won't win you this game.

Like I said, I have no clue what to think anymore and unsure about everything from before right now.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Firstly I dont see how that quote setracts form my point at all.

Define setracts. Not sure what you meant to say there. If you meant "detracts from my point" I wasn't detracting anything...I was pointing out that you were recalling things correctly.

As for the other part. It came from a town perspective. Talking to you and the everyone else at the same time.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Taking a small break from my proofs. Don't quit guys...remember it is just a game.
Once I finish my proofs I'll come back with my thoughts.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Almost didn't make it home today.
Overnight I thought about it, and the only way X is scum is if he is a one night kill scum roll. I'm willing to follow him to the end.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Just seen dekes' join date, so explained why he has confused me all game. Ofcourse I believe xtoxm or at the very least do not think we can afford not to. But nolynching gives us those extra %points tomorrow and the next day. No lynching the next day only gives us that the next day.

But I am now

unvoteing nolynch

because we have a chance to confirm anothre scum if xtoxm tells us who he will roleblock tomorrow.

so xtoxm should say that now.

I will vote antihero soon.

I want everyone to see how much fail is in this post right here.

Ofcourse I believe xtoxm or at the very least do not think we can afford not to. But nolynching gives us those extra %points tomorrow and the next day. No lynching the next day only gives us that the next day.

Here Bob states that he believes that he believes that Xtoxm was really a town JoaT. That would mean that he believes there are two (2) confirmed townies, Xtoxm and Mari.

In the next sentence though, he proposes that a no lynch will increase our percent chance of lynching scum. This is impossible seeing as how there are two confirmed townies that the scum has to kill. If we no lynch, then we will be in the same position, with one dead confirmed townie.

because we have a chance to confirm anothre scum if xtoxm tells us who he will roleblock tomorrow.

No....[preview edit] Ah, I see his replacement took care of that.

[Ant_to_the_max]

VOTE: Antihero

[Ant_to_the_max]

wait....
>__________>

[Ant_to_the_max]

Ah. So Bob today?

[Ant_to_the_max]

Why it is perhaps? If you are town me and Dekes are the only two possible people who could be scum. There is no reason why you should be thinking that stuff out now.

For me, my choice is between Bob and Dekes, and there is no way I believe it can be Dekes. If it is, gg and he is one bamf
VOTE: boberz

[Ant_to_the_max]

Why the no lynch? Mari would die and we would be in the same spot as today.

You really lost it after D1

[Ant_to_the_max]

For winning?

[Ant_to_the_max]

Do you honestly think you could have made a good case against him?

[Ant_to_the_max]

good game guys

[Ant_to_the_max]

Yeah. I knew it was rash. But already had my mind made up. Like I said, I honestly wouldn't have believed anything Bob through at you.

[Ant_to_the_max]

My case on Sub was "GODAWEFUL" Lat?
:'(

[Ant_to_the_max]

I remember I came up with a HUGE conspiracy that was mind blowingly complicated in an earlier game. Yeah..I found it. At least I am slowly getting better...and wow, I really do have a thing about people staging a fight in the thread to distance themselves... >_>

Spoiler:

EBWOP: I am not going to get my answer tonight I think...

Which is not going to help me, but I will throw this out there anyways and see what everyone else thinks.
VOTE: Robocopter87

I am accusing you of being the ring leader of the two mafia. You came into a slot where I had a slight town read on, but then managed to turn that around. After you have jumped into the game and read through most/if not all the discussion we have had so far you were still jumpy about being lynched even though there was little to no fire on your slot.

Coming into Day 2, there was small questionable actions on your part talking about the night actions. From there it seems like you have taken control of the game (not necessarily a bad thing in general...more later) But also notably I thought you might be trying to distance yourself from Cay, a possible scum mate. Now, he had to go off so the interaction between you two could not have continued as I would have liked. I am saying that your vote on him and argument might have been staged to create that little tiff between you two.

BUT, another interesting thing I noticed...Nic might also be another scum buddy of yours. Maybe you told him to do a "follow my lead" kinda thing while you put on a show to hurry another wagon on a townie. From what happened in the later half of all your posts now I have no clue on what to make of it, but I do know that I don't feel like trusting you on your crazy little plan like Nic is.

I know I don't have specific posts highlighted for my argument in this post, but if there is anything you want me to clarify or point out which posts made me feel this way just ask. I just wanted to through my thoughts out there right now and see what you think.

So to sum it up, Robo is the leader, Nic and Cay are plausible mates.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Oh hell no

[Ant_to_the_max]

Although, that Nic guy was scum though.

0-4 now baby all as VT
*starts to fist pump*