Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thirdkoopa]

/confirm

[Thirdkoopa]

Vote: Olinea

because lol RVS

[Thirdkoopa]

Oh, sorry about my lurking guys. I should note for people who don't know this well that I have a habit of leaving tabs open.

For now, Chamber, mind replying to Olinea? You still have yet to do so after his post replying to you with your vote.

[Thirdkoopa]

You would have had me ignore Koopa?

I just want an answer to go on between this. Didn't care whether it was rhetorical or not.

[Thirdkoopa]

Going to sleep soon and will try to get a reply in the morning but could we have a Vote total count right now by any chance?

I'd like to see so we don't end up hammering someone. It already feels like we've gone through so much in one day as Olinea said.

[Thirdkoopa]

So okay, I'm back.

That said, I can't come down to anything on the Umbrage/El Simo case yet. El, let me rephrase what everyone's asking: You're basically saying you voted to stir up discussion, yeah?

Also why did you OMGUS? It's too strange.

[Thirdkoopa]

Hi, back, thanks for the prod.

Let me read around some stuff first.

[Thirdkoopa]

k done with my re-read

El Simo and Umbrage both seem odd to me right now but what's the full case on El Simo summed up? I'm seeing more of something in umbrage now unlike before so I'll

Vote: Umbrage

- Will unvote if he gets too close to a lock without a claim. Anything I say pretty much comes across as a repeat with this case but tl;dr: mostly scummy voting patterns and trying too hard to blend in.

Never really got this but what's the case on Ortiz?

Where's TL, for that matter? I'm probably a bit tired and missed a few things.

I'll start to at least talk more but all these quote wars and posts just end up giving me more questions than solving questions this game. Things seems to be more settle now in my eyes so at least I'll be able to make a few more posts.

[Thirdkoopa]

For the record, Pie, it's because it's hard for me to go in when... well... just look at some of the previous cases. I've read it all, sure, but I just want to get straight down to the point of why ___ is scum/town/neutral/etc. Plus I've just been having a hard time grasping thoughts with this round.

I still admittedly deserved that pressure.

Also, here's something - Elaborate on those scum groups.

[Thirdkoopa]

EBWOP: Also

unvote

for now. I need some time to think over this more but I'm basically torn now over this case. Furcolow for knowing a flip is town doesn't seem scummy since I've seen people jump on it more times than not.

[Thirdkoopa]

EPWOP Part 2 for now: Also, just another thing to cut this simple:

I will not settle for any other lynch candidate at this time

You post scumlists and have a lot of reads and ideas on who flips will give you, yet, you specifically go towards me.

Elaborate on this

and

your scumlist if you would.

[Thirdkoopa]

You guys want active me? Fine. And great, I get to start with a wall! (This post is clearly joking around)

The scummiest thing TK has done is unvote as soon as you pressure him like that - he majorly caved right there.

If you want me to elaborate on my unvote on Umbrage: Not only did I see the case for him less, but it's also the fact I'm reaching more towards "He's probably just Town being made to look scummy" Granted, I could be wrong, but meh.

Plus, I barely knew how many votes he had until the unvote. This is more of just "Me being lazy and trying to make a post of content at 5 AM while playing Civ IV" more than anything. I'll admit however, if this was someone else posting it, even

I

find it scummy.

If you've read it all, you've seen that people have already given cases for why X is scum/town/etc.. Read harder. Unless you're trying to imply that you want to wait until a later day to actually DO something (similar to the off-site game you were in), and that's just anti-town. I have seen you play before, you are not normally this lazy and scummy, now post your reads/hunt scum/do SOMETHING. Until you do, I believe you are scum trying to blend in with the chaos surrounding the other players.

This is not pressure. I want you dead.

I shall, at the bottom of this post.

I'm not trying to imply that I want to wait... Let me just put it this way: I'm not seeing the case too much for anyone

in particular

AFTER reading all of these posts. I want to just get down to the bottom and see the main case without playing ping-pong.

Me doing something? Simple. I'll stop this D1 meta habit right now.

Also, last I checked, voting someone until they do more is seen as pressure. Amuse me more.

Now, some elaboration my groups.

For starters, these are not scumgroups. These are just groups of players that I have paired up for one reason or another (aka not at random - I'll let everyone else attempt to figure out why these people are grouped together), in an attempt to help us find scum. I'll repeat the groups:

Group 1: el simo, Olinea, Furcolow
Group 2: Thirdkoopa, TheLonging
Group 3: oritz, Umbrage
Group 4: Cyberbob, sorasgoof
Group 5: chamber, ThAdmiral

Scum typically try to distance themselves from one another most of the time. I have created these groups with this and other things in mind, and I guarantee I am semi-correct in my assumptions. I have to note that some scum will buddy up to one of their teammates but not the other, in order to go against the typical scum behavior I just mentioned. So, Groups 2-5 can have both scum, while Group 1 is highly unlikely to be a three-man scumteam. Does that make sense?

Like I said, Groups 2 and 4 are most likely to have scum in them. Group 3 is also possible, depending on the alignments of groups 2 and 4, but 2 and 4 are my primary suspect groups. I said earlier that each group has at least one town member in it, however, I'd like to correct myself. Logically, that would seem true, but my gut says that each group

possibly

has at least one town member in it. Since I think 3K is scum, that would imply I think TL is town, which I can't say I do. In other words, I'm not 100% sure each group has at least one townie in it, but it's possible.

Case on 3K in my next post.

...What?

While it's nice, I want elaborations on the people and groups you posted specifically.

Post coming up next in response to Pie.

[Thirdkoopa]

EBWOP:

I'm assuming he mentions the tab thing for why someone would see his name in the Little Italy "who is online" forum. So he admits to lurking, then uses a terrible excuse as to why it may have seemed like he was online? AFAIK no one called him out for this. Overly defensive.

I used this

IN-CASE

someone called me out on this. This way NOT to make myself appear more Town or anything. This was to cover the lurking habit. I should have cleared that up.

Are you seriously just saying I should wait until someone calls me out on it for me to clear that up? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

He asks chamber a question, which is never brought up again. It never goes anywhere. He doesn't build a case, or even mention chamber for the rest of his ISO. What was the point of asking this, then? I think he was just trying to seem like he was contributing as not to get called out on it, and then he goes back to lurker-mode.

I was just trying to gain info for future reads. Admittedly, I planned to go further with the case, but once I came back to find four new pages I generally figured nobody would care.

The second sentence of this just seems fake. "So we don't end up hammering someone." It's like he's trying to appear town, but not in the way that town wants to appear town. The last sentence just gives me a bad vibe - it seems hollow; doesn't have any substance. Am I the only one getting a weird vibe from this post?

So we don't end up hammering someone

without a claim

You realized nobody else even said this and he was at L-2... right? Anyone remember that one lynch on SHM5 where Shado came in and didn't know it was L-1? It's called being cautious. Nobody else was doing it.

I suppose the OMGUS question is a valid question, but again, it never seems to go anywhere. He doesn't follow up with any of his questions. I find this scummy.

It never goes anywhere because of the whole habit I have when everyone's already jumping on other cases. I get the thought narrowed down in my mind that people won't care when in reality it does help us.

[Thirdkoopa]

EBWOP2:

"Trying too hard to blend in." Funny choice of words.

It's what I felt in a nutshell... at the time.

Here's 3K's single post of decent content, however, his bandwagon-y vote on Umbrage is just terrible. He didn't vote one way or the other a few pages back, but now that Umbrage is the leading wagon, he places his vote on him. He doesn't offer any original or semi-original reasoning for his vote, either. His "unvote" comment seems fake, similar to the "so we don't end up hammering" statement earlier. It's giving me terrible vibes.

Usually I offer original cases so... Yeah. That one's a bad habit with this game in particular.

Once again, 5 AM on the unvote, but I digress. If you want original reasoning, I can elaborate, but basically I found him trying too hard to blend in... and then as I went on reading about this case, I more found it "Everyone else making a few small things into something big"

Basically, the unvote had nothing to do with you, and the vote's already been explained through my past posts (Nonetheless the hammer)

Then his unvote once I put pressure on him is just terrible. If that's not enough, he has posted eight times before I voted him, then I get a whopping three posts from him straight away. Is this not a bit suspicious to anyone else?

I posted three times because I couldn't edit and meant to put it all in one post. And wow, he's trying to be active now! Thus he must be scum, right guys?! RIGHT?

Questions for 3K:
- Why did you ask chamber to reply to Olinea?
- Why didn't you vote el simo when he was at 3 votes, but voted Umbrage when he became a leading wagon?
- Why did you ask what the case on oritz was?
- Why did you ask where TL has been? Also, I believe he is V/LA.
- Give me some of your reads, please.

-OCD. Ironically I didn't want the case dropped.
-I didn't find the case in El Simo as weird.
-Summed up. Most of it seemed like ping-pong and I really couldn't gain anything out of it.
-I didn't see one of his posts in the re-read and I enjoy reading his posts. Didn't know about the V/LA
-Sure, something quicked up and simple now with all of these posts (With no flips these will probably be written bad but... ):
(??? = Lack of posts/Very neutral, Neutral = Plausible scum, leaning towards, Town = Guess.)
1. ortiz1193 - Neutral
2. el simo - Town (Slight read + Gut on this)
3. ThAdmiral - Neutral
4. Furcolow - Neutral
5. Umbrage - Neutral
6. chamber - Town
7. sorasgoof - Town
8. InflatablePie - ??? (You replaced an inactive person so...)
9. Olinea - ???
10. Cyberbob - Neutral (Slight scum read but this is really gut feeling right now)
12. TheLonging - ???

Also here's something for me - On top of the groups thing, why don't you elaborate on more cases?

[Thirdkoopa]

On Civ IV, will respond to all points soon. I'm not a VI FYI, this is a bad habit that conducts when I'm not active in a game. This is probably one of my worst Meta's to date but hey, I completely deserve these votes for my apathy.

For the record, my "Neutral" reads lean also towards possible scum. I'm having a hard time and I'm basically on the edge Day 1 because we have no flips. Yes, call this bad reasoning, but the only alignment we all know is our own (Unless of a scum-alignment) so I'm having a hard time making a case that isn't something per say "lol, gut feeling"

Basically, it's hard for me to decide who to place in better and worse reads at this early in the game. Call it paranoia, but in this early of a stage in the game, I could see anyone that isn't me flipping Town or Scum - Doesn't this apply to anyone who's town? The more flips that happen, the more the image is painted. Umbrage

was

the most suspicious in my eyes at the time of that post. I still think he can be scum.

Hope that bit of two cents helps to clear some stuff up.

[Thirdkoopa]

Not gonna go over every quote but I'll break things down so I'm not a broken record.

3K, your unvote also came right after you got a vote placed on you. Despite what you say, for the rest of us (or at least me), that seems majorly defensive/scummy.

While it's nice, I want elaborations on the people and groups you posted specifically.

Each player in each group shares a common trait. They each have some sort of relationship to each other or have similar views. Scum typically don't want to be seen acting too similar to a scummate, so they try and distance themselves from their team, for the most part. In my experience, at least one player in a three-person scumteam will distance themselves as much as possible from the rest of the team. (if we have two mafia, they definitely don't want to be linked together in any way).

By grouping together those who act similar, by their views, votes or other traits, we can sort out the most likely possible scumteams and go from there. Typically, this type of analysis is done after a mafia flip, but I'm getting a headstart on it.

That's nice but no no no. I want you to elaborate more on the specifics. You just come in posting this and don't elaborate why you think if I flipped Scum, TL = Town.

Yes. It's better than being overly defensive about something not mentioned. If you were town and were called out for lurking in this manner, you should not care... as long as you're telling the truth. Scum have more of a reason to be over-defensive than town.

You're pointing out me for me pointing out that I'm away for a bit of time in-case anything

Caution is a scumtell.

What else do you want to explain that? It was bad wording. Misplaced wording.

This is bullshit.

Except it's not. I have paranoia. I have a lot going on in my life. I've always had paranoia. It's not even a bad habit, it's more like a disease.

Plus I was out of this game for most of the time sans the beginning.

Compared to your previous activity, being this active after someone begins to give you heat for it IS a bit scummy, yes.

"He must be scum because he can't edit a post! Get him!"

I won't go over this too much since it's just a bit of a scumtell but let me just say right now that it's more of a "I realized I should be active despite all these things going on in my life, or I should get a replacement, or see how active I can be"

I was prodded FYI. I just chose to finally make posts of content now.

[Thirdkoopa]

You have no scum reads at all, other than one "slight scum read" based on gut? I find that hard to believe. And how do you not have any read on Pie? He's been interacting with you quite a bit. What makes you think chamber and I are more townie than anyone else? Your reads are quite similar to Furcolow's reads...

Then, we have the horrible vote on Umbrage (who, by the way, is now a neutral read for some reason), the unvote, and the subsequent burst in activity after being called out. I was already becoming suspicious of you in your ISO5, but everything since then has made you the most scummy player in the game at this point, in my opinion.

vote: Thirdkoopa

k i'll break this one down calmly

No scum reads at all? I said these were ones I see as more likely to be scum. Those are all slight.
I can't have a read on Pie? I said that was specifically because of the replacement. He just came in a Day ago. I'm on the fence deciding whether he's scum trying to divert everyone or just a tunneling Town. Town is leaning towards due to one of his comments saying "Hey, guys, I'll lynch myself if he flips town" but this could be sarcasm and I could just be an idiot at reading this.
You and Chamber? I find you guys more town simply because I can't really find much of a case or for that matter, anything that make sou two look scummy in a general scheme. Granted, this could easily change as the thread goes on.

Anything else?

[Thirdkoopa]

So we don't end up hammering someone

without a claim

Then he reference’s Shadow’s hammer in SHM5. The difference there is that EPM was an outed Neighbor and he had already trollclaimed Mafia Roleblocker. This does seem like a very eager attempt to end the day. Almost indicates that TK doesn’t care what someone claims as long as it’s made.

Oh, that's a bad memory then. I forgot about the claim. I only remembered the quickhammer.

Basically I'm saying that I'd be willing to unvote if he wasn't online to avoid someone else logging in without seeing the vote tallies. Granted, it's not likely to happen, but it

can

happen.

Anything else I should elaborate on that part, Olinea?

[Thirdkoopa]

Trying to dismiss it as a lazy D1 meta doesn't make it any less scummy.

Uh... This is my Meta. See post 341 for clearing everything up. The only reason I'm making these posts in separate posts is because MafiaScum won't work for me to make more quotes in my posts (apparently)

I feel this is because 3k really doesn't have a leg to stand on in this argument.

"I feel an argument is going in circles, thus it must make him scummy!"

A leg to stand on as in? I'm telling the truth here whether or not it sounds scummy. Admittedly, I'll make a few contradictions. What kind of other explanation do you want?

And besides, this recent raise in post count of yours shows us that not only do you leave the tab open

Sum it up here:
"That was then, this is now"

I'm finding myself less busy. I don't know the time IP posted it but upon checking the thread and checking new posts, I came across that and decided to explain.

Or are you saying I should have just ignored that too? That explains my sudden burst of activity regardless of alignment, you know, because people are asking me questions?

What I was hoping to see from 3K from Ip Mans pressure was more scum hunting and less scrambling.

I overreact.

I'm busy during the holiday's. I'm busy with a lot of things with life right now. Admittedly, I have bad habits in the holiday's as well (Staying up late for an example) I'm already having to reply to these at

4 AM

which ends up making me only able to reply to all these questions.

I'm done for tonight but when I can, I promise to be bringing cases I can up to the table and actually search for a few things. Pie basically showed how I dropped a few parts where I was starting off well way too easily.

[Thirdkoopa]

Posting to avoid prod.

Seems like a lot has happened now as well. I'll be taking a re-read and getting some real stuff rather than clamming stuff up. Along with that, I'll also be responding to any questions. I may have to go V/LA but I should out right now that

I won't be here for New Year's or the day before that

[Thirdkoopa]

Hey guys, I'm finally back! I was hanging out with my friends and yeah... Sudden burst of activity again. Won't need a replacement since I'm finally less busy.

I'll catch up and reply to anything I missed. Not going to be lazy this time and see what I can get from reading things. Nice to see Fugi around.

[Thirdkoopa]

I keep disappearing because of my time online. At this point, I'm just tempted to ask for a replacement. (Watch as you guys somehow turn this into a scumtell)

I'll check if there's anything I need to reply to first but I don't want to make another wall.

[Thirdkoopa]

Sexy Jesus H. Christ, you're sounding like soras now.

When you have classes in every corner and a generally busy life it's kinda hard to get time in just to be able to read the thread :/

And my problem with this game is similar to yours, Pie. I can't really get much straight with my reads. Since I know now that people will still care, I'll argue the points I need to.

[Thirdkoopa]

Request: Votals

- I could go on my defense circle or claim if you guys are truly not going to stop with this but I doubt either of those will make this wagon stop.

I requested a replacement and thought I'd get one. :/ I'll just try to keep up anyways but I feel like I'll only be dragging us (as a town as a whole) down further with my work I have.

[Thirdkoopa]

...

Nevermind. I just found the Votals. And now's the time to do this,

Claim: Vanilla Townie

Just a plain ol' one. I doubt my reads will help but I'd be generally suspicious of how this wagon started for you guys to note in the future with flips. There's def scum on it, as much as it's an OMGUS, it's strange to find everyone shockingly agreeing (this was at the beginning)

I'll try to be active if I'm not replaced but with a deadline coming up soon then meh. If you feel this is all truly the best lynch, go for it, but don't do it just because you want a lynch. If I get anymore time, I'll try to re-read to denote some main stuff I found strange, but with all the replacements and all the catches... yeah.

[Thirdkoopa]

I think town is finally getting focused and together, so I'd really rather not try to break that up by dragging this day out further and creating another wagon.

Is it just me or did this quote come out totally wrong?

And I came back to check if I got a replacement. Guess not. I'd rather not have a replacement of me just replace to get hammered so yeah.

As for my busy schedules it has to do with schoolwork now rather than Holiday reasons.

[Thirdkoopa]

Don't like excuses, and I don't like how he hasn't posted until he was getting wagoned

>Thought I was going to get replaced.
uh...

Fairly sure we caught lurking scum.

You won't get scum from this. You'll get a flip? Yes. But you better be pretty damn sure that if you're town you'll do something with my flip.

[Thirdkoopa]

six toqnies ia a lot wit& gf so I dislike this setup.

...What?

This game was still pretty fun. I'm just annoyed I wasn't able to get a replacement when I asked and hated how I was busy during the duration of this game. (that has to do more-so with myself than actual modding)

Also still Furc, why the heck did you vote before at least waiting for Ortiz's claim? :U