Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Umbrage]

/confirmorama

Also, shouldn't the example vote be bolded?

Fixed, Thanks.

[Umbrage]

*doesn't random vote*

*waits for people to say not random voting is scummy*

*waits for people to say that saying not random voting is scummy is scummy*

[Umbrage]

BANDWAGON!!!

Vote: Umbrage

Seriously though, Ortiz and chamber are obv scum. Quicklynch plz.

[Umbrage]

Every game I've seen has started with someone who doesn't do RVS, and is then bandwagoned. I wanted to shake things up a little.

[Umbrage]

Ah, RVS discussion. *falls asleep*

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

[Umbrage]

I thought the question directed at me was quite rhetorical?

[Umbrage]

When did I lie?

I agreed with them yes but that is not why I voted him. Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon. I want to know why he thinks this is bad and if he doesn't what he is implying by it being too much of a coincidence.

This is the worst post in the game so far. You answer your own question: you lied about the reasoning for your vote. Which is alright, I think lying for a pressure vote is often a good play, but you try to make it look like you didn't lie. Which can only mean you have something to hide.

Some of us have other things to do in the leadup to Christmas other than play mafia. What an amazing thing.

This is the best post in the game so far. The activity level here is absolutely insane. I'm not going to be able to keep up.

The "is this question rhetorical, are you asking me, I thought that was the other guy" posts can go. For Pete's sake, we're already on page 3. It's Christmas, people. Relax.

Also, people shouldn't have to explain their random votes. That's because they are random. Scum and town approach the RVS in the same way. It's all null, people.

[Umbrage]

@Olinea: I've now made seven posts since confirmation, you've made eleven. chamber has made fifteen.

And activity levels and # of posts are not related. You can spam one-liners all you want, it doesn't mean you're very active in the game. All it does is confuse the town. Cyberbob summed it up the best. This game is the farthest thing from coherent.

@all: No more joking/sarcasm/rhetoric stuff. It only gets confusing in the end.

[Umbrage]

@el simo: So you were just bandwagoning to encourage discussion?

@chamber: I seriously doubt that.

[Umbrage]

Vote: el simo

1. You said you didn't say the vote was random, when you did.
2. You said the vote was to pressure bandwagon, and you didn't lie about the reason for your vote.
3. Obviously, you did lie, which isn't scummy, but denying it is.
4. You seem to be building a case on me, which implies that the earlier vote was at least semi-serious.
5. You voted ortiz when (s)he called you out on contradiction, clearly OMGUS.

CONCLUSION: We have a player that disguises his reasons for voting, denies any deception even when it's been clearly pointed out, and attacks a player that made a case on him. We have scum on our hands folks, overcompensating for his nervousness by denying any hint of wrong-doing and going after the players who find him scummy.

---

@ThAdmiral: I haven't backtracked on my stance that excessive posting is anti-town. When I gave my scum reads, I based those primarily on who was fooling around in the RVS, and who was looking for a wagon to jump on. It had little to do with activity level.

[Umbrage]

@chamber: I read the wiki like it was the bible. I'm not sure why you consider me arrogant, this is my normal playstyle so I guess it's just natural. If you have a problem with my play, I'll have to ask you to be more specific.

@Olinea: That's the wrong quote.

Ah, RVS discussion. *falls asleep*

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

That's the one ThAdmiral was referring to.

[Umbrage]

Why did you pick me and chamber but not mention el simo?

Umbrage, this was never answered.

Are these the scum reads you referred to in post 109?

[Umbrage]

No, that was in response to ThAdmiral's question about my second set of reads.

[Umbrage]

The vote was random, the target wasn't.

what is this i dont even

[Umbrage]

The picture says "it's a joke". I added the part about disappearing because you can throw down a serious vote in RVS, you just have to be around to follow it up. I didn't like the way you just left after laying down a vote that appeared to be not part of RVS. It's like pulling the fire alarm and running away.

[Umbrage]

A random vote might not be random, but a pressure vote is anything but random.

chamber's defence looks more like honest town than buddying scum to me. Doesn't mean el simo's not scum though.

[Umbrage]

I was definitely not implying random

Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon.

I called my vote random once

The vote was random, the target wasn't.

Because I decided to ignore the previous seriousness and specific reasons for voting him and randomly bandwagon him.

I wasn't acting in random in my decision to bandwagon him.

I... I just don't know what to think...

[Umbrage]

1. When I vote, there are only two questions: do I find this person scummy, and does this scummyness warrant a vote? If yes, then I vote. Are you really saying that you decide that you want to vote before you decide who to vote for? That really doesn't make sense, outside of RVS. But that still doesn't make sense: you don't decide the aim of a vote after you decide to vote. We, as human beings, don't act without a reason. We don't perform an action randomly and make up a reason to do it later. That's just silly.

2. The thing that bothers me the most is how you are acting. The first question posed to you concerned why you voted on a bandwagon but said it was random. You could've just admitted you lied about it being random to get a bandwagon. That's more or less what you're saying now: that vote was to get a bandwagon going and lead us out of RVS. Which is fine. But you refused to admit that you lied, or made a mistake, or used ambiguous grammar, or whatever concerning the random part. Basically, you keep saying that this misunderstanding is ALL OUR FAULT and you are NOT TO BLAME AT ALL. Which is a total overreaction. The worst you could have been accused of is trying to end RVS early or using a poor choice of words, neither of which are proper tells. You seem VERY concerned with keeping your reputation in this game as clean as possible, which doesn't make sense unless you have something to hide.

3. So... you voted me when you thought I was on your case, and unvoted when you thought I was off? Can you get any OMGUS than that?

[Umbrage]

Shit on a stick, I realized a split second after I posted that that last sentence should read: "Can you get any more OMGUS than that?".

[Umbrage]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

This looks like an admission that the vote was legitimately RVS without any reasoning and now people are attacking el simo for it.

It's the "trying to explain your way out of it" part that makes me think he's scum. Either he's totally bullshitting us, or he randomly decides to vote before he knows who to vote for or why.

@chamber: What the fuck do you mean I'm being noncommittal? I'm the most vocal person on this wagon. Just because I don't go "DIE SCUM DIE" every few seconds makes me noncommittal?

@ortiz: Why the sudden turnaround?

[Umbrage]

hi

Either play this game or replace out, you useless waste of space.

[Umbrage]

vote: ortiz

without even reading the game
1) i know el simo and can hold him accountable after i read
2) i dislike the first two players on his wagon for being scummy (umbrage, theadmiral)
3) i guess i missed the rvs? so this is me making up for it!

if you all want to lynch me, that's fine, i'm probably over-stretching myself in terms of game-commitment atm

Oh goodie, we found el simo's scumbuddy.

But observe his impeccable logic. He dislikes me because I'm 'scummy'. Oh well, you'd better lynch me then!

[Umbrage]

Sora, don't vote me based on your own lack of understanding. I am saying the act of voting was random, not the target of the vote. These are two separate actions all together. What you are suggesting is that I chose a random person to vote on, what I actually said was that the decision to cast a vote was random. The point of making this statement was to let people know that I wasn't voting him based on the previously mentioned accusations, regardless of the fact that I agreed with said accusations.

What Umbrages backtrack has to do with ortiz lie, or "misunderstanding" I don't know, but my vote is on ortiz because I want it there and not on Umbrage. Why is this scummy? If it's not, why do you mention it?

And that isn't a good enough answer. How did I bandwagon? How is this different to a good bandwagon? Why are some bandwagons bad and others good? Explain yourself properly please. These questions go to Umbrage as well as he still hasn't answered me either.

Still want Admirals answer too.

I assume you're referring to this post.

The problem doesn't lie in the fact that you bandwagoned. The problem is that you misrepresented, by accident or on purpose, the fact that you were bandwagoning.

[Umbrage]

OH MY GOD FURCOLOW SAID BEFORE HE READ THE FREAKING THREAD THAT HE THOUGH I WAS SCUM AND EL SIMO WAS TOWN AND OH MY GOD OH MY GOD HE HAS THE SAME OPINION AFTER READING THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A BIG FUCKING SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's lynch these clowns already. The only thing that could possibly sway my opinion of them is a Mason claim.

[Umbrage]

@ Thirdkoopa: See #156 for the basics of my case against el simo.

Furcolow is scummy because he magically knew el simo was town and I was scum who attacked him. el simo is also scummy for being passive-aggressive towards me. Either you think I'm scum or I'm not, don't just bandwagon me whenever there's a wagon to jump on.

@ ortiz: You are wrong about those quotes. Read them carefully.

@ el simo: You are still making this about the fact that you bandwagoned, but that's not a part of my case since I find it a null tell. I am concerned with your misrepresentation of events.

@ chamber: Either make a proper case on me or get off my wagon. And I mean a case laid out in a single post. Reading your ISO is like wading through a swamp.

Cyberbob is the only person I'm sure is town at this point.

1. Umbrage there are those two questions but that doesn't take out the three decisions you make while you vote. No matter how you do it you still have to decide if you are going to vote, who you are going to vote and how serious it is, I'll give you that order doesn't matter, but you still make those three decisions. There is no skipping it. It doesn't make sense that vote someone you want to lynch with out having decided who it is, you don't target someone you find very suspicious with out deciding whether he warrants a vote or not. These decisions have to be there otherwise it doesn't make sense. At best you can skip the seriousness of it but that isn't recommended for good town play.

2. I'm over reacting? I'm being wagoned (or was) because you claimed my vote wasn't random, despite it being so. You understand from my point of view, you're the one over reacting? You want to lynch me because you think my random vote wasn't random? Good luck with that.

3. No I voted you when I thought you were purposely taking my quotes out of context to show me in a scummy manner, I unvoted you when I realized you were claiming not to understand what I was saying. <- Not OMGUS.

1. Putting the decisions in a different order doesn't make sense in your defence. You are saying you decided to bandwagon me THEN you RANDOMLY decided to vote me? This is getting more ridiculous with each post.

2. Again, a straw man. I'm not even going to respond to this.

3. I still don't see the difference. Either way, in your mind those quotes are still out of context. My post hasn't changed. The only difference is in your perception of the post. When you viewed it as a threat, you voted me. When you thought otherwise, you unvoted.

i'd vote him, and i haven't even read yet (umbrage)

I can't believe nobody's made a stink of this yet.

saying not random voting is scummy isn't scummy, but saying it the way you said it here just sounds like you're trying to be cute as scum

HOW? Explain.

thadmiral came in and "voted randomly" you say here... the previous 3 votes HAD BEEN ON YOU, whereas he voted for someone other than you... and he makes your scumlist...

what made you put him on your scumlist in this post #55? I feel this is distancing, umbrage.

Sorry, what? I explained that post before in #109.

No. I like bandwagons as town. The person who earns my FoS the most is not El Simo, but thadmiral for deterring the wagon by placing a RVS on someone. Why not bandwagon at that point?

Hell, it was so obvious umbrage is probably willing to throw him under the bus!

Why not bandwagon? Why bandwagon in the first place? Just because somebody has a different outlook on bandwagons doesn't mean they're scum.

I disagree. This game has been a really easy read for me up until this point as a result of everyone's familiarity, and the fact people aren't wall-posting. Really, really easy for me to ferret out who aren't acting kosher. I had negative vibes from you before even reading, and seeing back, I can see why you're flailing and neck-high in water.

There is so much wrong here... OK, first off, NOT everyone is familiar with one another. This is my first game outside the newbie queue FYI. Also, a lot of people prefer wall of text's instead of a lot of little posts, it's not just me. And I don't see how that makes me scummy. Finally, how did you get 'negative vibes' from me before reading the game? Oh right, I was attacking el simo, which obviously makes me scum.

post feels like you have more information than i do

How the fuck have I implied scum knowledge by saying somebody looks town?

geez el simo is good
he has already pegged the same two guys
and i thought i was a good player

I think I might vomit. Why don't you two just get a room already?

ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over itp

I don't know what this means but if you are intentionally playing badly just for the fun of it you piece of shit, you deserve to be banned from this site for all eternity.

Tell me if there's something I missed.

[Umbrage]

I'm pretty sure Cyberbob is town because he's very detached and analytical. He hasn't bandwagoned anyone so far.

@ chamber: Clarify. Why is making a list of reasons for voting somebody anti-town? Why is making a long post anti-town?

[Umbrage]

Yeah well check his record, he hasn't got away with it.

Good. I intend not to let him start.

And I'll

vote: Cyberbob

for evoking stupid anti town policy lynches.

sorry but having someone deliberately posting like a retard is one of the worst things for the town lol if you don't see why

I'm sorry? Try to be a little more tactful. I have no interest in playing with someone spouting off slurs.

1. Putting the decisions in a different order doesn't make sense in your defence. You are saying you decided to bandwagon me THEN you RANDOMLY decided to vote me? This is getting more ridiculous with each post.

I wasn't saying it did I was just explaining how it doesn't matter because you still have to make these three decisions when voting.

What was your thought process for the vote? I still don't see how it can be random AND an intentional bandwagon.

2. Again, a straw man. I'm not even going to respond to this.

What else can I say, you're claiming my reaction is scummy, this is just a stupid accusation.

You said I lied.

I said I didn't.

Now I'm scum.

What did you expect me to do when you called me out of lying? Bow down and praise? I wasn't lying and I wasn't going to let you with claiming I did, so what do you do but turn it around and say THAT is why I'm scummy.

You called a bandwagoning vote random, then claimed it was both, which makes absolutely no sense. You became increasingly inscrutable. You were under no suspicion when the issue came up; nobody thought that lying that situation was scummy. But you started churning out bullshit anyway.

3. I still don't see the difference. Either way, in your mind those quotes are still out of context. My post hasn't changed. The only difference is in your perception of the post. When you viewed it as a threat, you voted me. When you thought otherwise, you unvoted.

You don't see the difference? What between purposely misrepresenting something and just not understanding? Well one means you specifically butchered those quotes ignoring my already given explanations of them to try and present me to the town in a scummy light and the other means that you actually didn't understand what I was saying. There is a pretty big difference and none of it has to do with how you are a threat. That post damned yourself more than anything because it showed the town how desperate you are to try and make this case work.

I did that to show how ridiculous your arguments have become. If you feel some quotes have been misrepresented, feel free to point out which ones and how. Trying to slander me by making me appear either scummy or clueless is anti-town.

[Umbrage]

@el simo

Why do you feel like furcolow is an easy lynch? He doesn't look like it at all to me.

Because as soon as someone votes him he will reply with a wave of OMGUS which someone else will think is a scum tell and will vote him and then he will start complaining about how he should be replaced or how he should be mod killed or how it's all unfair or how he is going to vote himself or AoE the hell out of us and then someone will decided this is a scum tell and vote him for that and then you have genius' like Cyberbob who will push policy lynches on him because he doesn't present his cases in the most coherent sentences and then next thing we know we will have lynch of someone who actually hasn't done anything scummy.

It happens every game. Literally, if he isn't shot at night he goes down in a ball fire, guns blazing at everyone after scum decided to push his wagon off a cliff. He is like a magnet for them.

Furcolow is the burly that chums the waters mafia swim in.

(For the record, I love this post. It's poetry.)

[Umbrage]

@Umbrage

I'm not going to argue theory with you. You are wrong, but you can learn that by reading MD or something. Until then I wont hold you being wrong against you.

Theory is mostly opinion. It's my opinion that a few larger posts are easier to read than many smaller ones. With smaller posts without quotes, it's easy to lose track of the game. This is my opinion. You can have a different one, but you can't say I'm wrong.

I really don't understand your inability understand that 'random' doesn't actually mean random.

Actually, that's kind of what it does mean. Random means random. It doesn't sometimes mean carrot.

[Umbrage]

MAN I missed a lot! I'll probably go and respond to everything later, but there's a couple things I want to get off my chest first:

1. This is supposed to be a civil game. I don't give a shit about swearing, but ad hominem attacks and slurs have no place here. (I'm looking at you, Furcolow.) I don't want to see the word 'retard' or any deviation of it. It is both offensive and low-class.

2. The most likely scum 'team' for me is still el simo and Furcolow. Furcolow admits to being a VI, which means he is really not a VI, which means he is pretending to be a VI. The only good reason I could see for that is to excuse scummy behaviour. El simo has been defending him throughout the game. It's classic 'good cop, bad cop' theory: one scum acts out and gets the town's attention, the other stays cool and covers his ass.

3. IP makes good points. I'm still leaning towards Thirdkoopa being VI town, but I definitely have to read his ISO and the points made against him more thoroughly.

4. I'm going to have no computer access at some point today. It's only a short while until I go back to school, so if I lurk, it's because I have various RL stuff happening.

[Umbrage]

I REALLY don't like how fast Thirdkoopa's wagon has grown. Zero to 200 in a couple pages. I agree he's scummy, but nobody was looking at him before now.

Maybe I can explain better...

Before IP showed up, we were pretty much in a stalemate. There were a few main players like chamber, el simo, and myself who were all building cases on one another, but couldn't get enough support for a lynch. Then IP shows up and suddenly we all agree this player nobody's attacked yet is so scummy? It's the first time we've agreed on anything. sorasgoof is the most obvious example. He goes from saying we shouldn't trust IP to agreeing that Thirdkoopa is scummy. Those two last posts by him are a) wagoning the current target and b) leaving a back door open in case the tide turns. In fact, the more I think about it, the scummier he looks right now.

Hold off on 3K for now, and look at his wagon more closely. There's bound to be scum somewhere.

Unvote, vote: sorasgoof

He did the same thing to el simo earlier, then jumped off the wagon when the pressure turned on him. He's edging wagons along while keeping a low profile.

[Umbrage]

I wasn't worried about that, as evidenced by the way I treated it as a joke.

Observe how he uses a conveniently placed backdoor to excuse his actions.

Maybe I should be voting you for phrasing the above to make me look scummy.

Spreading suspicion without commitment to a wagon. This can be taken as a willingness to vote me or a simple joke, depending on how everyone reacts.

[Umbrage]

I'm town and I can see you flipping scum and nothing else. So yeah.

this is the most retarded thing fyi

Reported.

- Umbrage: buddying hardcore with el simo

Two things I find really suspicious:

1. IP's switch to soras.
2. Cyberbob attacking IP after he switched. Defending your buddy?

[Umbrage]

Let’s look at Umbrage’s case on sorasgoof.

Those two last posts by him are a) wagoning the current target and b) leaving a back door open in case the tide turns.

We’ll look at A first. Umbrage’s stance is anti-wagon. Noted. Not a bad thing, I’m just waiting on him to trip up on it.

Wagons are fine. Wagoning for the sake of wagoning is not fine.

Maybe I should be voting you for phrasing the above to make me look scummy.

Spreading suspicion without commitment to a wagon. This can be taken as a willingness to vote me or a simple joke, depending on how everyone reacts.

A wagon’s something you “commit” to now.

That was fast.

Maybe we have different terms. Wagon to me means a series of votes on one player. You either believe the person you're voting is scummy, or you don't. Soras looks like he doesn't.

Now for B.

I wasn't worried about that, as evidenced by the way I treated it as a joke.

Observe how he uses a conveniently placed backdoor to excuse his actions.

Okay.

@all: No more joking/sarcasm/rhetoric stuff. It only gets confusing in the end.

Why did you pick me and chamber but not mention el simo?

Umbrage, this was never answered.

Are these the scum reads you referred to in post 109?

POOT PICTURE HERE!

Those reads were made a LONG time before I called an end to joking. It was still RVS, as I recall.

[Umbrage]

Time to simplify things.

ortiz: Was the first to go after el simo, but let the wagon drop when it was gathering momentum. Doesn't buddy anyone, doesn't distance anyone. Stays focused and picks up on good tells that I agree with most of the time. CONCLUSION: I'm trying to see the case on him, but I see his play as pretty solid town.

Cyberbob: God, his ISO is just plain nasty. He votes people for policy and doesn't scumhunt for half the game. And he also complains about the players. A lot. He's improved a bit, but not much. CONCLUSION: He's been here too long to think lurking as scum is a really good strategy. He looks more like lurking town, but I wouldn't weep at his lynch.

ThAdmiral: Jumps on the el simo wagon when it gains speed, jumps off without much ceremony. He also blatantly copied Olinea's case on ortiz. But these are the scummiest things he's done. CONCLUSION: Needs to be more active. It's hard to get a good read on him. The tells I found aren't really enough to warrant a vote, and there are bigger fish to fry.

chamber: Reading his ISO is like listening to someone talk on the phone without hearing the other end of the conversation. For Pete's sake man, quote! He's the most arrogant player in the game, outright refusing to prove his point. Hasn't really contributed anything useful. CONCLUSION: Possible scum. His posts confuse the game more than anything. It's hard to put my finger on it, but there's something about his style of play that is deliberately anti-town.

Furcolow: Knows he's a VI, yet doesn't try to improve his play. Jesus. Does anyone here take him seriously? And WHAT is with the constant buddying to el simo? Am I the only one who's seeing this? CONCLUSION: Scum if el simo is scum.

el simo: Reads as frustrated town, or more likely, impatient scum. Buddies with Furcolow, they defend each other whenever one comes under suspicion. CONCLUSION: Since I appear to be the only player that still finds him scummy, I'll let it drop, but do me a favour and read over him and Furcolow. I see a TON of buddying and coaching going on.

InflatablePie: Very aggressive, but not in a scummy way. Doesn't vote without a series of reasons explaining why. The only thing I don't like is the switch from 3K to soras. Appears to be trying to buddy me. CONCLUSION: No reason to think he's scum now, we need more information of alignment. If 3K is town, IP looks way more scummy.

sorasgoof: Has yet to make a decent defence other than "everyone is trying to make me look scummy". At least 3K cleaned up his act somewhat. Soras is just doing some weird Appeal to Paranoia stuff. CONCLUSION: Still like where my vote is.

Olinea: Does some good scum hunting. No obvious bandwagoning, or tunneling, or any of the usual tells. CONCLUSION: Probably the person I suspect the least. Therefore, I suspect him.

Thirdkoopa: Plays Civ IV too much. Honestly, I don't get much of a scum vibe from his posts. CONCLUSION: Call it gut if you want, but I think he's town.

TheLonging: All his posts have been bullshit so far, I look forward to some content from his replacement. CONCLUSION: Null read.

I would prefer a lynch of sorasgoof, el simo, or Furcolow. I am also open to lynching Cyberbob, ThAdmiral, or chamber, but only if some damn good cases are made on them.

[Umbrage]

Also, don't do that inb4 thing. That honestly makes people more scummy in my eyes, regardless of who it is. You can't say "inb4...X" and have that negate what I WOULD have said.

Soras, that thing you said about explaining why these arguments are bullshit is a VERY good thing to do. Because right now I want you lynched, and it will take more than "this is utter bullshit" to change my mind.

[Umbrage]

Cyberbob: God, his ISO is just plain nasty. He votes people for policy and doesn't scumhunt for half the game. And he also complains about the players. A lot. He's improved a bit, but not much. CONCLUSION: He's been here too long to think lurking as scum is a really good strategy. He looks more like lurking town, but I wouldn't weep at his lynch.

I complain a lot because there's a lot to complain about, hope this helps

ps "I wouldn't weep" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line. shape up scum

ps "shape up scum" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line.

[Umbrage]

Seriously, TL's play was awful. I've rarely seen worse tunneling and more useless posts, though it makes a little more sense to me now, it was still poor play on his part. Yes, I'm critiquing my replacement's play, WIFOM away.

What the hell is this? The bit about 'it makes more sense now', what IS that?? It looks like a softclaim to me.

I don't think it's bad to critique your predecessor's play, but this looks like some kind of weird unnecessary defence coupled with a vague softclaim. It's like he's trying to subtly suggest he's town without providing any good reasoning as to why he's town. Hate hate hate.

FoS: Fugitive

PS: Love el simo coming to Furcolow's defence. Atta boy!

[Umbrage]

We should decide between tk, cb, and soras imo.

And no I don't want to lynch tk, but he's an option for just about everyone else.

I don't see a lynch of CB happening. True, town wouldn't miss him, but he's not as bad as some of the others. I'd also add Furcolow to this list.

Judging by the opinions here, the lynch candidates for today are:

ThirdKoopa
sorasgoof
Furcolow

I'm fine with any of them, but I'm leaning toward Furcolow, since his alignment will give us some good info into el simo's. Two for the price of one.

I'd also like to state my distaste for the way we're heading. I believe it was Fugitive who said 'whoever posts the least is the scummiest'. Some good cases have been made on ortiz, el simo, and myself, yet none of us appear to be a valid lynch option. In my opinion, the scum are likely very active posters and thinkers in this game and are trying to steer attention toward the ones who aren't as active. I don't like how wagons grew so quickly on ThirdKoopa and sorasgoof. I'm surprised nobody has suggested I'm scum with TK, because if I was, I couldn't have done a better job of redirecting everyone's attention to soras and saving my partner. It seems there are some players who are untouchable in this game, which is a very unhealthy arrangement.

[Umbrage]

Sorry for the double post, but...

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

[Umbrage]

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

FoS: Umbrage

[Umbrage]

Dude, if you think he's softclaimed don't ask him to elaborate!

It's a pretty bad, obvious softclaim. If it even is a softclaim. I don't know WHAT it is, but I don't like it. He's trying to look more town by acknowledging points against himself. Which is crazy.

You know, the more I think about it...

Unvote, vote: Fugitive

Saying 'good point' when I FoS you is practically an admission of guilt. I mean, WHAT THE HELL.

[Umbrage]

I don't usually post from my itouch because I hate to but...

@um -
a) I do not admit to that being a softclaim, but nice rolefishing and suspicion off false tells.
B) your sarcasm detector seems to be broken, and the fact that your voting me for misunderstanding my sarcasm (and not even checking first) makes me sure of one of two things. You're scum or you're town whose reads I'll never be able to trust because, for lack of a better way to put it, they're stupid.

(This is all pretty much what ortiz just said.)

1. The sarcasm (if it was intended) wasn't clear AT ALL.
2. It's a pretty big leap between questioning a weird statement and rolefishing.

Fugitive is still scummy.

[Umbrage]

Also, which is of note, Umbrage disapproved of me and chamber posting snippets earlier on but he appears to have no problem with Furcolow doing so.

With Furcolow, it's far more obvious, and he's a new player. He's already taking a lot of flak. Why would you feel the need to remark that the sky is blue?

Also I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think soras is probably town. He seems genuinely frustrated.

He probably is genuinely frustrated. But that doesn't mean he's town.

[Umbrage]

I'm still here, I still haven't had time to read. Give me one more week and I'll be back at school, and I'll have much more consistent access to a computer.

Umm.

This shall be interesting...

[Umbrage]

Yeah, ThirdKoopa kind of disappeared. But I still like a Furcolow lynch.

Unvote, vote: Furcolow

[Umbrage]

I am willing to switch my vote over to ThirdKoopa if it comes to it. I'm not going anywhere in the couple of days.

Also, which is of note, Umbrage disapproved of me and chamber posting snippets earlier on but he appears to have no problem with Furcolow doing so.

With Furcolow, it's far more obvious

That he's posting snippets? What do you mean by this? I don't think that it's difficult to tell if it's a snippet or not just based on who's posting it.

Posting in snippets is the least of Furcolow's problems right now. He's done way worse.

and he's a new player

Judging by join date, unless I haven't kept too close of a track, you and I are the two newest members on this site, not to mention that Furcolow claims to be an alt. I wouldn't expect many new players to create an actual and a "VI alt" when they sign up.

He isn't an alt of an experienced player. From what he's said, I'm guessing this is his main.

He's already taking a lot of flak.

From you.

So what's the problem?

Why would you feel the need to remark that the sky is blue?

Confused by this. Is "Umbrage scorning chamber/Olinea but being okay with Furcolow" equivalent to "The sky is blue"? Because you appear to be asserting that the sky is

not

blue.

OK, let me put it this way: would you want to convict a murderer of vandalism? Of course not. A small tell on a scummy player isn't as noticeable as the same tell on an otherwise town player.

This all makes sense in my mind, anyway. I've tried to explain the best I can.

[Umbrage]

Umbrage admits in 410 (I think) that he did a good job of pulling a wagon off of 3K, and since I'm finding him more scummy, I'm also finding 3K more scummy by comparison.

*facepalm*

Read my post again. That was something I expected to take heat for, and was surprised when I didn't.

Does Umbrage pushing so hard of fur look like an early bus to anyone else? I just feel like the case lacks substance but it's being pushed so hard that he's disregarding every other player. That, and Umbrage seems eager to go with anyone as evidenced by the somewhat random Fur vote then the willingness to switch to Tk.

This has so much wrong with it I don't know where to begin...

OK, here's a start, HOW THE HELL CAN I 'RANDOM' VOTE SOMEONE I'VE BEEN 'TUNNELING' ON?

Read me in ISO, I think you'll find that I've done a pretty fair job of covering other players. I was the FIRST one to draw attention to sorasgoof.

*******

For the record, I don't like how Fugitive has been hiding behind his softclaim. He's been spreading suspicion without calling scum. He hasn't addressed my earlier concerns AT ALL.

[Umbrage]

A claim, and an "I don't mind being lynched". Thank you. That's all I need.

Unvote, vote: Furcolow

[Umbrage]

@ InflatablePie:

Point #1:

You're saying that I'm scum because I pointed out tells on everybody. Suspecting everybody is just about the most pro-town thing you can do.

ortiz: I said I was trying to see the case on him, and I still am, because everyone else has called him scummy as various points in the game. Obviously, I'm starting to feel that I'm missing something. Obviously, I would want to understand why other find him scummy.
Cyberbob: I believe I've made my problems with him clear, but I don't find him scummy. There is a difference between a player you dislike, and a player you find scummy.
ThAdmiral: I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Lurking isn't a scumtell IMO, but neither is it pro-town.
chamber: Not seeing how a gut read is scummy.
Furcolow: I am either the only player or one of few players (can't remember which) that has spoken out against the lynching of lurkers and VIs in this game.
el simo: Again, I don't see your point.
InflatablePie: IMO, there is nothing wrong with noting connections between players. Signs of buddying and distancing are standard tells.
sorasgoof: No problem here that I see.
Olinea: No problem here that I see.
ThirdKoopa: Again, gut reads aren't scummy. Our subconscious tells us things our conscious will miss.
TheLonging: Again, I have NEVER advocated a Lynch All Lurkers policy.

Point #2:

I haven't elaborated on sorasgoof because there is nothing new to add. I've made my case, and nobody has responded with a defence requiring my judgement.

Point #3:

As I've said before, Fugitive is getting a free ride in this game due to his shitty 'softclaim'. Any time I mention the obvious fact that he's scummy, I get "OMG ROLEFISHING SCUM!11". I'm sick of it. This connects with my previous point that some players in this game have been above suspicion.

Point #4:

I find it very amusing that NOBODY suspected I was scum with 3K until I pointed it out. Read over the thread if you don't believe me. In fact, I was called town for pointing you towards sorasgoof.

Point #5:

IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS FURCOLOW AN EASIER LYNCH THAN SORASGOOF???????

Point #6:

My bad. I thought my vote was on Fugitive. Cue the "OMG HE LOST TRACK OF HIS VOTE HE MUST BE TEH SCUMZ QUICKLYNCH PLZ!!111". Oh wait... LOSING TRACK OF YOUR VOTE IS NOT A FUCKING SCUMTELL!!!!!!!!!

[Umbrage]

We need to stop arguing and compromise on a lynch or we won't get one.

This.

In this one. Soras topped at maybe what... three votes? Fur is rapidly gaining in votes and has been under suspicion for longer than soras, I believe.

Under suspicion from me, and only me, until now. EVERYONE agreed soras was scummy. Don't know whatever happened to that.

Actually, I find someone that's suspicious of the entire playerbase kind of scummy, depending on the context.

What context is that?

You went from being sure he was scum and having nothing change your mind -> completely forgetting about him.

Pardon me.

*BANG*

*BANG*

*BANG*

*sigh...* Read my post AGAIN. There were NO NEW developments with sorasgoof. I am NOT going to repeat myself, and I am NOT going to post the exact same case on soras over and over. You just made a head-sized dent on my new desk.

Yes, but you only find him suspicious because of his softclaim? Besides, what reason would scum have for softclaiming? It's actually a much more pro-town thing to do. More pro-town than someone drawing attention to a softclaim for sure.

nononononoNONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vague softclaims like that are SCUMMY. With that, he could claim whatever the hell he wanted, and knowing these players, you'd all believe him. Or, he could just say it wasn't a softclaim. He could say whatever the hell he wants. And you are all eating out of his hand.

Read my posts. I find him scummy for more than the softclaim, but the softclaim is enough in my opinion.

True. But just because you mentioned it doesn't make it any less likely, it's a WIFOM situation.

It's not WIFOM. It's the fact that NOBODY would have noticed this if I hadn't pointed it out. It's that you are are easily suggestible. And if you think the scum haven't figured that out as well, we're in for a wild ride.

[Umbrage]

Okay, Pie, don't play in a game with me again.

Ortiz, that was an

awful

post.

HoS: Ortiz

There's like a 55-60% chance I'll have a list up tonight.

Can we vote for an extension? Now that I feel like you'll listen to me, I kind of want to voice my opinions. Before, I was like, what's the point? But if el simo can listen to what I have to say, I think I might want to do this after all.

THE GREAT SORASGOOF MAY GRACE US WITH HIS THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ALL MUST REJOICE AND WORSHIP HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, YOU are not to play with ME again. You are a useless waste of space. If it was up to me, you would be banned from this site. Now either play this game or get the fuck out of here.

[Umbrage]

@ IP: Where are you getting the impression I've changed my opinion on soras.

[Umbrage]

I've had enough. One more personal attack like that and you will be modkilled.

Request replacement as soon as possible.

I'VE had enough. I feel like I'm the only one caring about this game. I'm the only one who's noticed how there are two kinds of players in this game: those who are getting all the negative attention and those who are not. I'm the only one who's objectively looked at ALL the players in this game. I'm the only one who's provided content from the game's start until now.

The above post is a disgrace. Cyberbob and others have been tremendously offensive, something I've pointed out several times, and yet the mod is silent. But I get a public threat of modkill with no warning after one small incident.

I will not be playing with Furcolow, Cyberbob, sorasgoof, or diddin again. As for the rest of you, fuck you too.