Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[StrangerCoug]

Red, Directing the doctor is more town or null imo , and is lynch diddin or wc that bad? Ppl are accusing, and I understand pressure as town is good.

Have you considered the possibility of a Mafia roleblocker at all? If there is one and the Mafia finds out who the doctor is, they may put the doctor under scrutiny by keeping roleblocking him or her while killing off the people to whom he or she is directed. Also, I haven't seen it, but according to the Wiki we may also run into a "macho" version of a role (i.e. one that cannot be doc-protected).

[Lateralus22]

I'd like SG to take some sort of stance on WC/Helghast, can't remember if you have recently.

Saint, are you in the full swing of things? It feels like you're kinda out of touch from the game since AntB's flip.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 1x10 ::

LynchMePls (0) -

RedCoyote (0) -

MagnaOfIllusion (1) -

SnakePlissken

themanhimself (0) -

Lateralus22 (0) -

WrathChild (2) -

Parama, diddin

curiouskarmadog (2) -

Nero Cain, chkflip

Helghast (4) -

RedCoyote, Lateralus22, popsofctown, LynchMePls

Powerrox93 (1) -

q21

quadz08 (1) -

StrangerCoug

chkflip (1) -

MagnaofIllusion

Nero Cain (1) -

quadz08

DarlaBlueEyes (0) -

q21 (0) -

diddin (0) -

popsofctown (1) -

Saint

SnakePlissken (1) -

WrathChild

I Am Innocent (0) -

StrangerCoug (0) -

Parama (3) -

EtherealCookie, Powerrox93, curiouskarmadog

Implosion (0) -

EtherealCookie (2) -

I Am Innocent, themanhimself

Saint (0) -

Not Voting (3) -

Helghast, implosion, DarlaBlueEyes

With 23 Alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is currently set for Thursday January 13, 2011 at 9:00 pm EST.

[Nero Cain]

@SC The majority of Powers post have been that helghast inst scummy. So it looks like some sort of chainsaw to me. Either Helghast is Powers buddy or Helghast is not in his scum group and he's trying to gain town cred. Least that's how I see it.

What happens if Diddin doesn't shoot tomorrow? Should we start considering his lynch?

unvote

I still don't exactly trust CKD but Darla hasn't made me feel any better about Narsis' slot and I'm not a big fan of either Powerrox93 or Helghast. So one of those 3 need rope me thinks.

vote: Powerrox93

[StrangerCoug]

I'd like SG to take some sort of stance on WC/Helghast, can't remember if you have recently.

SC, not SG. Get it straight.
WrathChild vs. Helghast, as I've said, is a bit hard for me to get into. I'll take a closer look tomorrow, though.

@SC The majority of Powers post have been that helghast inst scummy. So it looks like some sort of chainsaw to me. Either Helghast is Powers buddy or Helghast is not in his scum group and he's trying to gain town cred. Least that's how I see it.

I thought you were talking about power roles, silly me

[diddin]

I was busy like hell today as I think I posted a while back.

I'm vigging Helghast TOMORROW unless there are serious reasons why I shouldn't. It provides more connections than if I were to shoot WC (powerrox adamantly defending him, Saint HEAVILY attacking WC last minute)

I would rather see a vig hit on Narsis or EC than WraithChild

Vig wc

Direct Contradiction. I say hang him.

Unvote, Vote: Saint

[popsofctown]

Why aren't you vigging helghast now?

Do you not really have a daykill?

What the heck.

[RedCoyote]

Quit stalling, diddin.

q21, sorry. I admit I skimmed; I'm a bad townie. I'm also a hypocrite in the sense that I build walls but get upset when I have to read other people's walls. To compensate, I don't usually expect people to read mine (except for what I've addressed to them).

[quadz08]

Those are far from equivalent. Mafia has some small influence on what happens in the day. They have (pretty much) 100% control over their NK. Comparing the two is basically apples and oranges.

Um what? I’ve never made any argument about the Mafia NK being equivalent to Town voting. Where are you getting this from?

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently.

If you don't have at least an idea about a player that has made a decent number of posts, then, yeah, that's not too good. I agree with implosion here. Now if you want to qualify your opinion, that's a whole 'nother thing, and it's quite acceptable (I do it all the time).

Right, and my point was that I feel like neutral reads aren't generally accepted past a certain point. Maybe that's just my experience, though. *shrug*

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

Right there. You're saying pops can't be for picking who diddin shoots (because if he doesn't, then we lynch him) while being against picking who we pass his ability to (because scum will shoot said person). You are equating the mafia's power in picking the vig shot to their power in picking the NK, which is completely ridiculous.

Quit stalling, diddin.

QFT. Helghast dies, now. If you post again without a shot, my vote goes to you.

[Helghast]

So ddin is going to shoot me?

[WrathChild]

Vig Count 1.3

WrathChild:

Parama,

Themanhimself

, Diddin,

popsofclown

, powerrox93,

I Am Innocent

,

Lateralus22

,

q21

(8)

EtherealCookie:

RedCoyote, Saint,

I Am Innocent

, MagnaofIllusion,

themanhimself

(5)

Helghast:

Lateralus22,

popsofclown

, didden, quadz08,

themanhimself

, WrathChild, Nero Cain, DarlaBlueEyes (8)

Nero Cain:

chkflip, quadz08 (2)

Narsis:

Saint, MagnaofIllusion (2)

themanhimself:

implosion,

Lateralus22

(2)

popsofclown:

MagnaofIllusion, StrangerCoug,

themanhimself

(3)

chkflip:

MagnaofIllusion (1)

curiouskarmadog:

StrangerCoug,

themanhimself

(2)

Powerrox93:

quadz08,

q21

, Nero Cain, RedCoyote (4)

Saint:

quadz08 (1)

Parama:

curiouskarmadog (1)

DarlaBlueEyes:

Nero Cain (1)

*Hello let's get this vig thing over with already. Unofficial deadline around a weekish before deadline, considering no one's protested yet.
*If there's any errors point them out.

Wee. Diddin, I'd like you to vig someone between Jan 5-7, considering the flexible deadline for the day is the 13. (Actually the vig should be tomorrow at latest because that's about exactly one week.)

When the time comes, I'd like you to give a FULL read on your vig choice and who his flip will affect concerning what alignment he possibly is. I'd also like you now to announce the exact vig date, along with anyone who has objections with this set time to complain now.

[/quote]
you need to fix this vote count bad. It has themanhimself voting for like 5 different people.

5 of the 8 votes against me are from people who have votes placed other places as well.

[WrathChild]

I responded to the above before Diddin made his decision, but MAJOR FoS at Latteralus for trying to push a vig-shot on such a flawed votecount.

EBWOP: 6 of 8 didn;t see Diddin's vote on Helghast too.

[WrathChild]

NM I see what Latteralus did. Any time someone approves a vig candidate that goes up. Removed FoS.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So ddin is going to shoot me?

This is the only thing you have to say after your long absence? That’s it?

Congratulations … if you are Town you’ve made my ‘Players to Avoid at All Costs’ list when joining games.

--

Right there. You're saying pops can't be for picking who diddin shoots (because if he doesn't, then we lynch him) while being against picking who we pass his ability to (because scum will shoot said person). You are equating the mafia's power in picking the vig shot to their power in picking the NK, which is completely ridiculous.

Aside from the quote jumble there your interpretation is absolutely incorrect. In what you quoted I am in not way attempting to even discuss the Mafia NK.

I’m suggesting that lynching diddin if he refuses to follow Pop’s plan (which I clearly disagree with, as stated multiple times) results in removing the ability. I also say that the Mafia will have some influence in the ‘Town’ direction of diddin’s shot. I’m stating outright that if Pops’ plan of ‘Direct or Die’ isn’t followed by diddin and he is lynched that it GUARENTEES the ability is removed from the game. The Mafia would not have to act at all to remove a Cycling Ability.

--

I've red and red his post many times now and I still cannot find one single scummy post made by him. Can someone please explain why Helghast is so scummy that he should be lynched?

This is all you have to say about everything that is happening. If Helghast is indeed dies and flips Town this (and the previous posts) reads so much as ‘Scum distancing from a mislynch / misvig’ it almost hurts.

Add Powerrox to my official list of suspected scum.

--

Nero Cain’s theories

at

583

looks to be big-time Tin-foil hat territory. Why would any player, Scum or Town, claim to have an ability they can use and then promise to kill a Town selected target if they had already made their shot for the Day?

--

1. In Mafia, like most things in life, you always have to ask, "what have you done for me/us lately?" EC was indeed fairly active as the game opened up, but he has since began to lurk. So, yeah, I dispute that Longing is more of a lurker than EC at this point.
2. I'm not necessarily saying Longing is an active player. I just don't think EC and especially not Narsis would qualify as active either.
3. This doesn't apply. You came at pops for his attacking lurkers, among other things. You are attacking lurkers. Period.
4. Fair enough, but, again, one of the reasons you're voting pops is because of his focus on Longing. Unless you concede that point, it doesn't matter that you're not voting Narsis in my eyes.

1. So having a suspicion based on EC’s early game play, when he was active, immediately dissolves into being labelled lurker hunting? I just want to be clear.
2. You are missing the point. At the point where Pops went after Longing he was clearly lurking and Pops attacked him for just that. Did I attack EC for lurking? Nope. I attacked him for his terri-bad Parama attack. Did I attack Narsis for lurking? No, again for making a horrible bandwagon vote with no reasoning.
3. Wrong. I’d attacked Pops, Chkflip, EC and Narsis (and now Powerrox). Not a single portion of my attack had anything to do with their inactivity.
4. We disagree. Noted.

--

What is the difference in him voting someone for vigging and vigging that player himself?

If the reply is that he can vote someone for vigging he doesn't expect to die, look, that dynamic also affects everyone else in the town, to a diminished extent perhaps, but multiplied by many more players.

Voting for vigging someone is no different to voting to lynch someone. You are registering your push against someone you find suspicious. It can indirectly leads to death of the person.

Actually Vigging the player is taking the action into your own hands. It directly leads to their death.

Why are you harping on this obvious difference?

If you really want to read people based on them killing, you should select the player you most want to read, at least. I personally want to read all of them with a second lynch.

Your read them on the second lynch gives no more information than reading them on a regular lynch, IMO. Players aren’t prohibited from expressing multiple suspicions as to who they think is Mafia. It certainly happens in games without outed Dayvigs to direct.

And, once again, I’ve never said I ONLY want to read diddin on his kill target. It would be, as I’ve explained, another layer of information about him specifically.

I’m frankly done arguing with you on this point. It’s just MD material as far as I can tell.

--

Red, Directing the doctor is more town or null imo , and is lynch diddin or wc that bad? Ppl are accusing, and I understand pressure as town is good.

Directing the Doc is not a Town move at all. Are you asking here why it would be bad to lynch diddin if he proves he has a Daykill power?

--

Have you considered the possibility of a Mafia roleblocker at all? If there is one and the Mafia finds out who the doctor is, they may put the doctor under scrutiny by keeping roleblocking him or her while killing off the people to whom he or she is directed. Also, I haven't seen it, but according to the Wiki we may also run into a "macho" version of a role (i.e. one that cannot be doc-protected).

This seems a little bit alarmist if only from the standpoint that I’d expect any Doc power to be Cycling.

--

Direct Contradiction. I say hang him.

Are you stating that between those two posts there was no way Saint could have changed his mind on his read on WC?

Because between when I voted for Pops and when I unvoted new information appeared the made my reasons for suspecting Pops as scum greatly reduced. Should I be hung for a Direct Contradiction?

Also

– as Lat has requested please provide your full reasoning behind your shot when you take it.

[LimMePls]

OMFG DIDDIN SHOOT ALREADY! FFS!

[Helghast]

I've said it already I'm town, nothing more nothing less.
I have been very busy of late. I was thinking of opting out, but thought that wouldn't be fair for the person taking my place.

[popsofctown]

diddin you can't even vig helghast tomorrow you have to cycle your ability.

The town chose helghast. Shoot him now, or you're going down on a Lynch all Liars basis.

[Powerrox93]

This is all you have to say about everything that is happening. If Helghast is indeed dies and flips Town this (and the previous posts) reads so much as ‘Scum distancing from a mislynch / misvig’ it almost hurts.

If I could get an explanation why HG is so scummy for once then I'd never had to do this in the first place.

[quadz08]

Powerrox, read the thread, man. It's all over the place. Not hard to find.

I’m suggesting that lynching diddin if he refuses to follow Pop’s plan (which I clearly disagree with, as stated multiple times) results in removing the ability. I also say that the Mafia will have some influence in the ‘Town’ direction of diddin’s shot. I’m stating outright that if Pops’ plan of ‘Direct or Die’ isn’t followed by diddin and he is lynched that it GUARENTEES the ability is removed from the game. The Mafia would not have to act at all to remove a Cycling Ability.

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. Thank you for the explanation.

[StrangerCoug]

Have you considered the possibility of a Mafia roleblocker at all? If there is one and the Mafia finds out who the doctor is, they may put the doctor under scrutiny by keeping roleblocking him or her while killing off the people to whom he or she is directed. Also, I haven't seen it, but according to the Wiki we may also run into a "macho" version of a role (i.e. one that cannot be doc-protected).

This seems a little bit alarmist if only from the standpoint that I’d expect any Doc power to be Cycling.

Oh, that's right. I'm more used to roles staying put. Saint should still think before he posts, though.

I promised that I'd look at Helghast and WrathChild, and looking in ISO, Helghast does not appear to be scumhunting. He's defending, but not attacking anybody for anything from what I can determine. That he hasn't voted yet helps cement this thinking. WrathChild's ISO, on the other hand, looks pretty darn town.

UNVOTE: quadz08
VOTE: Helghast

[Nero Cain]

I promised that I'd look at Helghast and WrathChild, and looking in ISO, Helghast does not appear to be scumhunting. VOTE: Helghast

How is Powerox better than Helghast?

[LimMePls]

Diddin announced that he has a dayvig on Dec 23. It's now Jan 6, which is 2 full weeks later and he still hasn't shot. This is starting to get really scummy. Diddin's wanting to get town cred by having everyone vote on his shot, while being able to disown the consequences of the shot is scummy. Drawing out the process for over 2 weeks, leaving us with less time to deal with the aftermath is scummy. We're now at less than a week to deadline.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

That was a week ago. FREAKING SHOOT ALREADY. The longer he waits on pulling the trigger, the scummier he gets.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am incredibly sorry to replace in and then be busy guys, this weekend should signal the end of my failings though, so please bear with me. As per promised looking back I find Nero to be a bit aggressive and a little suspicious but I am not getting a major scum vibe off him (I forget who asked my read)

and so far I find the most suspicion in Helghast and find it a bit annoying that diddin is stalling so much major FoS there. If he fails to shoot I am voting him as mentioned above for Lynch All Liars policy.

For now,

vote Helghast

he seems the most likely candidate for scum from play, and if diddin isn't lying and manages to get in his vig, we'll at least have that information to base our lynch on. Also, I agree with the attempting to direct the doc = scummy, and is a big no no for town.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Diddin, shoot so we can get on to the lynching scumz.

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain’s theories

at

583

looks to be big-time Tin-foil hat territory. Why would any player, Scum or Town, claim to have an ability they can use and then promise to kill a Town selected target if they had already made their shot for the Day?

I don't see pro-town motivation in him waiting this long, do you? Infact, even if he DOES have kill its incredibly anti-town to leave us with like a week to discuss after the supposed kill that's coming. Its pretty common for an anti-town to do pro-town things to get town cred so that's why I said we should be fairly cautious. [And I know I used the word "fishy" in my post]

+ I asked him right out if he killed Muh and he ignored it.