Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[AntB]

(It isnt I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve (no longer))

Read to me as "This isn't my case, but I will provide one later"
not as "I'm joking, pappums isn't scum but AntB is."

[boberz]

Well AntB you were not reading in context, but from your survivalistic point of view.

I was asked what my case was on AntB, so when I said "it isn't" I am obviousl saying that this is not my case

[Lateralus22]

Meh. Another night of going to sleep at 4 AM and waking up at 6 Am lol. Fuck this shit.

Ant_Max

is scum for an awful case on Substrike. His argument that Sub wanted to lay low is fundamentally wrong because Sub did no such thing, he tunneled moose into the ground the whole time. He called for his lynch early on, this isn't the play of someone lying low.

Can't remember any mindless shipping of opinions so I'll need links for that but regardless, agreeing != scum. Don't see the slowly pushing the Beef wagon because at the beginning of the game he moose was the top dog wagon, with Sub riding on top. Did a quick search through his Iso and I don't see him slowly adding on the suspicion but continuing to push the moose one over instead. In the end he voted Beef because he was forced by the deadline.

I don't see why scum sub would get defensive over moose shooting boberz if he's his partner. Scum distance themselves more often than not from each other, not scream at someone holding a gun to save their life. The moose interactions actually make me pause and reconsider my read because doing that as scum would be essentially a death wish since moose is a loose cannon. What is your argument for boberz scum?

Rat

Rat has been absolutely useless in the time he spent here. I hate how much he tunnels on moose because he's a bad player, calling for his mod kill is ridiculous. There isn't any pro-town motivation for this when he's a known pr.

#355: Still going after moose. Moose's play during the night was incredibly pro-town so I believe his claim. This is just a policy lynch. Refer back to the mod kill point.

#544: This is weak. This isn't rl where people are constantly screaming nonstop, this isn't even a dram game where people are posting literally every second. This reads as an excuse ESPECIALLY IIRC when he came in he was the one who re-introduced the moose drama. Why couldn't he simply bring up someone else if he had a problem with the amount of focus on player?

#570: This doesn't make sense at all. What's the scum motivation for distancing day 1 then instantly becoming "chummy chummy"? Feels like you're adding buzz words to make this observation into a scum tell.

#571: Oh hey. This is kinda better actually.

#574: Huh. Seems like you're also guilty of faulty observations. I don't see how boberz was simply riding wagons at all. He was the one who brought up the Hiraki case early on when no one was jumping onto him. I can't see the town thought process behind this, there's no actual explanation that switches towards "only trying to lynch people" and feels like a hollow statement. I don't see how Beefster was just a bad player, I can't recall this but have you actually said this on Day 1 or is this some great revelation you're having now?

#583 (AntB): Fluff post actually. There's a lot of text to support his observation which is normally good but it's useless in this context because boberz already admitted to his claim before. I don't understand if you're saying bobber + Mari scum because when scum buddy it's towards townies, not their actual partners. My main problem with this post is that it looks like he's doing a lot, but really isn't.

Actually I'm more fond of Ant_Max/Rat scum with AntB/Sub as room for error.

Vote: Rat

[Ant_to_the_max]

LOL...well, work was getting slow and I needed a good laugh. Thanks Lat. When I get home i'll spell everything out for you cuz it seems like you can't see the point I am trying to make because you managed to miss it completely.

[Lateralus22]

...? What is your point then?

[Ant_to_the_max]

playing with my new phone and like I said...work was boring >_>

Either way, sarcasm was not called for. What I am accusing Substrike of is very subtle and crafty. I can't finish my post that i'm making right now cuz im nodding off. I'll trim the edges tomorrow

[Mariyta]

Max is really irritating and likely scum, but Rat or AntB are better choices for today.

UNVOTE: AntB, VOTE: Rat Rat wagon, forward ho!!

[pappums rat]

lol lateralus22, that is one hollow 'case' you have there, it smells more like omgus to me for having called you out for lurking. how come you have made no mention of my criticism of moose until this point, eh? i think lat22 is freaking out because i have basically called out all three members of the scumteam (boberz, mariyta, and lateralus22). my vote is staying on boberz since i am most confident that he is scum at this point, with lat in 2nd and mariyta 3rd. i'd really like to hear opinions from moose and substrike about what has been going on recently.

[Ant_to_the_max]

#7

Also, I find myself agreeing with your sentiment on Beefster, given his posts thus far.

Up till here his attention was focused pretty much only on Moose. Here he just agrees with the case on Beefster given from Lat.

#10

LordChronos who are your top two scum reads other than beefster, and why? And what specifically do you find scummy about beefster? I see lack of content.

I kept this here to preserve the order of his posts. Note the "I see lack of content." part.

#13

I'll vote Beefster, I'd just rather vote you right now, Dekes. Funny how that post comes after that vote. Active lurking? Guess we'll find out.

Anyways, onto the hot topic of the day: Beefster. Scummy? Yes. Scummiest? No.
...
LordChronos is a close second for me behind Moos. I'd be down for either of them today.

Here is the first time he throws out the option of voting for Beefster. Note that he always hints about voting for him, but never commits to it. Just suggesting the idea and letting mob psychology do its work. Letting us come to our "own" conclusions.
Second point. LordChronos is a close second? The most you said about him was possibly active lurking? (Which is the same reason for your voting on Dekes.) Lack of content much?

#15

It's staying there this time. I'll consider switching back to Chronos if we're reaching deadline but otherwise this is the guy I want.

Switching back to Chronos? You were never voting for him in the first place. Again, suggesting to move his vote if we reach the deadline.

#16

Lord Chronos has resumed active lurking. just so it's noted.

Jab number two at Lord Chronos. Again, the only case is active lurking. Also mob psychology here again.

#23

Why does anyone want to leave moose alive after that? We really.want to let him vig boberz, assuming we.buy the power role claim?

The really defensive post about Moose claiming he was going to kill Bob. Seems pretty scared even when you don't fully buy the claim.

#25

I am not comfortable letting Moose shoot Boberz, the mod has made it clear that we're not getting a replacement or a mod kill, so my vote's staying where it is, and I implore others to join.

Also, for the record: Werewolf/Hiraki isn't striking me as scum. Her post on p. 11 detailing the case on Beefster was a pretty straight forward and valid attempt at scum hunting. I don't understand why there are 4 people on her wagon with no one looking at Mari, AntB, or Dekes, all of whom are scummier. In addition, the case (he/she? Werewolf?) makes on Beefster actually makes me ok with a Beefster vote, if we're headed that way towards deadline.

Note the "not comfortable letting Moose shoot Bob"
Again, jumping on someone else's ideas against Beefster, but not committing still. Only "if we are heading that way towards deadline". And here he also tries to raise suspicion on three other people. Possibly trying to stall out the game drawing it to the deadline.

In the end he voted Beef because he was forced by the deadline.

I don't see why scum sub would get defensive over moose shooting boberz if he's his partner. Scum distance themselves more often than not from each other, not scream at someone holding a gun to save their life. The moose interactions actually make me pause and reconsider my read because doing that as scum would be essentially a death wish since moose is a loose cannon. What is your argument for boberz scum?

Yes..."forced" by the deadline. Makes you look so innocent and not guilty of joining the wagon. Just what scum want. Seen it done before.
As for the other point, it is called a scum slip. And do I need to have a case on bob? If Substrike flips scum, I'll have some reasons there.

Max is really irritating and likely scum

I'm sorry...

Substrike: Only wagon he fully committed to was Moose's. Everyone else he just took cheap jabs at and fueled the other wagons but never joined them till he was "forced" to

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.07

boberz - 2 - AntB, pappums rat
Substrike22 - 2 - Ant_to_the_max, Dekes
pappums rat - 2 - Lateralus22, Mariyta
AntB - 1 - boberz
moose200x - 1 - Substrike22

Not Voting: moose200x

Deadline: January January 20.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA ...

[Lateralus22]

lol lateralus22, that is one hollow 'case' you have there, it smells more like omgus to me for having called you out for lurking. how come you have made no mention of my criticism of moose until this point, eh? i think lat22 is freaking out because i have basically called out all three members of the scumteam (boberz, mariyta, and lateralus22). my vote is staying on boberz since i am most confident that he is scum at this point, with lat in 2nd and mariyta 3rd. i'd really like to hear opinions from moose and substrike about what has been going on recently.

Hello. OMGUS = Voting for you for no reason. I'v layed out multiple of your posts and explained why they're scummy. I'm not freaking out at all and you've tried to discredit my post but you haven't actually commented on any of it so I don't even know if you read it. There is no town motivation for that at all, if I'm so wrong about you need to explain why.

@Ant_Max

Ok, so the whole case boils down,

Sub = Pushing moose, called Chronos out for active lurking and hinted at a Beefster suspicion coupled along with defending boberz.

2 Things I'm trying to understand,

1) Do you expect him to vote for someone who is not their highest suspicion and vote/push for smaller secondaries instead?
2) Still don't see boberz scum, you need to spell this out for me.

Give me your thoughts on Rat plz, along with everyone else.

[pappums rat]

lateralus22 wrote:

Rat

Rat has been absolutely useless in the time he spent here. I hate how much he tunnels on moose because he's a bad player, calling for his mod kill is ridiculous. There isn't any pro-town motivation for this when he's a known pr.

#355: Still going after moose. Moose's play during the night was incredibly pro-town so I believe his claim. This is just a policy lynch. Refer back to the mod kill point.

#544: This is weak. This isn't rl where people are constantly screaming nonstop, this isn't even a dram game where people are posting literally every second. This reads as an excuse ESPECIALLY IIRC when he came in he was the one who re-introduced the moose drama. Why couldn't he simply bring up someone else if he had a problem with the amount of focus on player?

#570: This doesn't make sense at all. What's the scum motivation for distancing day 1 then instantly becoming "chummy chummy"? Feels like you're adding buzz words to make this observation into a scum tell.

#571: Oh hey. This is kinda better actually.

#574: Huh. Seems like you're also guilty of faulty observations. I don't see how boberz was simply riding wagons at all. He was the one who brought up the Hiraki case early on when no one was jumping onto him. I can't see the town thought process behind this, there's no actual explanation that switches towards "only trying to lynch people" and feels like a hollow statement. I don't see how Beefster was just a bad player, I can't recall this but have you actually said this on Day 1 or is this some great revelation you're having now?

#583 (AntB): Fluff post actually. There's a lot of text to support his observation which is normally good but it's useless in this context because boberz already admitted to his claim before. I don't understand if you're saying bobber + Mari scum because when scum buddy it's towards townies, not their actual partners. My main problem with this post is that it looks like he's doing a lot, but really isn't.

Actually I'm more fond of Ant_Max/Rat scum with AntB/Sub as room for error.

there is plenty of town reason to go after moose if he is a serial killer, which i had suspected he was. as in, probably ending up with an extra dead townie in the morning. or he could have been a scumvig, which i think there is much less of a chance but is still a possibility. and i have already stated why i was coming down so hard on moose earlier. #570 makes perfect sense, two scum players have every reason to distance themselves day 1. then when both of the top suspects flip town they can apologize and let each other know how wrong they were about each other, essentially becoming probable town to each other (in the eyes of the town). therefore, if a player had a town read on one and a scumread on the other, the one that is the townread cancels out the one that is the scumread, making them both town (in the eyes of the decieved player). #571, as you saw, was a post of reconcilliation for moose, as i admitted that i was probably wrong. i now believe moose's claim, and i think he is a townie, although he does need to do some scumhunting and put down a vote (unless he cant). your criticism of #574 is partially valid, i (like many others) am guilty of faulty observations, however the point i was trying to make was that ww555 and beefster were both easy mislynches for the scum, and boberz could have easily rode them for the mislynch. your criticism of #583 was antb's post, so it had no place being in my category.

[Mariyta]

that is one hollow 'case' you have there, it smells more like omgus

i have basically called out all three members of the scumteam (boberz, mariyta, and lateralus22)

and it's purely coincidence that they all happen to think I'm scum, too.

I fixed it for you.

Rat is so totally scum and anyone not voting him should be flogged.

And I shall say it again:

Scumvig is an oxymoron! Vigilantes, by definition, cannot be scum.

I don't understand the thought process behind it at all. Are you saying the scum have a designated killer? Or they get two kills a night? It sounds like you're talking about the second option, which would just be wrong (not wrong as in it couldn't happen, but wrong as in it would be horribly unbalanced and unfair to the town). Either way, this is yet another reason for you to die.

[pappums rat]

^ lol it was your pal boberz who originally came up with the scumvig idea.

so what exactly is the case against me, eh? iirc there isnt one.

[Mariyta]

It's been posted, repeatedly. It doesn't really matter if you agree with it or not (clearly, you wouldn't).

[pappums rat]

oh, look at that, once again a member of the scumteam refuses to answer a request for a substantiated case. welp.

iirc all you have said was that wanting moose dead was scummy. boberz has no real reason and yet is voting me. lat22 just sheeped on the moose shit and voted me. thats one hell of a case you guys have made against me. lololol.

[pappums rat]

wait, boberz isnt voting me, though he said he would 'move on rat' for no apparent reason. my mistake.

[boberz]

Seen it (deadline bandwagonning) done before

Better check you can actually do this, so when?

unvote vote pappums rat

For him to be so sure I am scum and not know where my vote is is horrible.

The complete misrepresenting of events (such as the idea I was "riding wagons" it is clear I was driving atleast one wagon and actually added onto the other wagons aswell)

A kind of weird self obsession whilst still trying to appear outward looking.

Somehow calling out a scumteam when none of partners found (I have seen many more town than scum do this).

Also for drawing such clear boundaries between him and his agressors, indicating a 'them and us' rather than an inquisitive motive.

[pappums rat]

boberz said: Somehow calling out a scumteam when none of partners found (I have seen many more town than scum do this).

if more town than scum do this, why is it on your list of reasons for voting me?

also folks i am now at l-2. just so no one can get away with an 'accidental' quicklynch if these 3 are not the scum.

[Mariyta]

also folks i am now at l-2. just so no one can get away with an 'accidental' quicklynch if these 3 are not the scum.

You really think all three scum would pile on a wagon at the very beginning? Have you played mafia before? With me or boberz? I'm stupid, but not

that

stupid. And from what I know of boberz, he's not that dumb, either. I've never played with Lat, but he seems smarter than that. One of us (potentially two, but unlikely) may be scum (doubtful), but not all three. So, Rat darling, which of us are you going to call out as your buddy, hmm?

Who's going to place him at L-1 so he'll claim? Or will he be nice and claim early?

[boberz]

sorry typo, seen many more scum than town*

Well done for ignoring the other three of four points as well.

[Dekes]

Who's going to place him at L-1 so he'll claim? Or will he be nice and claim early?

I shall be the hero.

Unvote; Vote: pappums rat

It doesn't matter whoe goes first. Guys, just promise me that we go after Substrike, who's made a disappearing act after realizing his wagon won't fly and still has done jack on D2...at all.
There's a nice distancing going on between Substrike and pappums. They have yet to mention each other.

Pappums, along with your claim, what do you think of Substrike?


And

@ mod

Can you unleash your wrath and prod Substrike and moose who have been absent from this thread for at least three days, yet posting in all of their other games?

[moose200x]

I'm here.

[Dekes]

Good.

Your thoughts on the pappums wagon with all it's participants and non-participants?

[pappums rat]

i am the town doctor.

i held off on mentioning substrike because i knew that dekes would undoubtably vote for me after mentioning his suspicions and knew that provoking him like i did lateralus22 may not be such a good thing. he hasnt said much recently, which may or may not be scummy depending on whether you think he is actively lurking or not (i dont). he has, to some degree, tunneled moose but i can completely understand that based upon moose's early play.

i would like to hear the opinions of attm, antb, substrike, and moose on whether you like my case on any of my suspects and what you think of the 'case' against me. i will remind you all once again that i have always answered questions to the best of my ability and have been entirely candid with everyone. my suspects, on the other hand, seem to not know what to say with responses such as:

when i asked boberz about why he prefered ww555 to beefster:

I have made my reasons for choosing werewolf abundantly clear, ofcourse to achieve a lynch I would switch.

he could have easily summed up his reasons in no time at all, and when you are that close to a lynch you should.

when i asked boberz about his 'case' on me and antb:

Haha,I am not your pawn I do not have to respond to every thing you say to me. And tbh I have currently got the strongest point currently in play.

And wheneve people try and work together someone always cries that it is scummy, it merely proves that that person is crap.

once again refusing to answer easy questions.

when i asked mariyta for the case on me:

It's been posted, repeatedly. It doesn't really matter if you agree with it or not (clearly, you wouldn't).

when lateralus22 was asked for his opinions of current events (my bolding):

I refuse to make a big nice catch up post today, simply because, I don't feel like it.

I'm only active/serious in about 2 games, the rest I'm actually neglecting.

scum = Ant_Max/Sub/AntB,
moose claim is overrated, he's got a killing role and what he did was pro-town so doubt he's scum.

AntB, how do you feel about town reads?

i have made my reasons for suspecting these three abundantly clear while they have only mentioned my early criticism of moose and lat22 mentioned a few other random and inconsequential 'reasons' for voting me.