Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[farside22]

confirm

[farside22]

ooh it just starting and I was already going to vote Nachomamma8 as I have played with him the most and think I know him more then anyone else in this game and seeing the convo going on I'm starting to agree with broken already.

vote: Nachomamma8

Side note: need to check Nachomamma8 activity today.

[farside22]

Did my check and I have one question to Nacho.
Why did you ignore the comment made by broken here

[farside22]

I didn't check the thread when everyone was confirming.

*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert

All PM's from mods states to confirm in thread or via PM. You have been playing long enough that I don't see why you would not confirm once you see the PM.

[farside22]

what?
he said 'confirmed 2nd scum'
people with some interlect like me would understand why he said that

vote antb

3rd scum

I read brokens comment like this myself.
I reread the 2 pages again and disagree about a connection between CN and Nacho.
I don't know if CN is one of those people that will have me hitting my head on my desk or if he is trying to make something more then it is. Since AntB came to the same conclusion I have to remind myself people have skewed thinking.
I'm fascinated more by those ignoring brokens point about scum delaying confirming to give more time to talk

[farside22]

@CN
So voting on something which to me reads as a cover-up to a particularly nasty slip is a scum slip in itself? While true it ultimately comes down the interpretation, that's why we have punctuation.

Why did you seem to lets say almost exaggerate brokens comment as a BS reason and drop a vote for it? Seems in my view a crap reason to vote during serious matters.

*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert

All PM's from mods states to confirm in thread or via PM. You have been playing long enough that I don't see why you would not confirm once you see the PM.

I did confirm once I saw the PM.

See brokens comment that is completely my thinking as well.

@CN: Scum may delay game start so they can talk about things for a day. People they played with, how best to play. The pre-game talks sometimes help the scum team, depending on how they play, plot a bit. It's best to give the scum as little pregame chat as possible.
However the mod allowed a set time for the mafia to chat so the point is moot I realize now.

I do have theory on why a person may "forget or not confirm once seeing a PM" but it's more what I have done as scum in the past.
I'm holding my vote for now on Nacho.

[farside22]

@Broken:

And that makes 9/13!

The remaining players have 48 hours to check in, after which they will get a 24-hour prod to confirm or be replaced.

Also, the mafia will have until 1:35 PM CST tomorrow to finish any pre-game talks.

Day 1 begins now! With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

This comment was made when the mod started day 1.

[farside22]

what?
he said 'confirmed 2nd scum'
people with some interlect like me would understand why he said that

That can be taken to mean any number of things, depending on how you read it. I read it as "CN confirmed 2nd. Scum!". You and farside read it as "CN

is

confirmed

as

2nd scum". This has to do with the psychology of how people interpret written word, not "interlect".

Obviously read as

"Confirmed as 2nd scum"

Picking on someone's typo is a scum tell?

So how do you feel about what AntB said then?

[farside22]

So now covering up a slip isn't serious... sure whatever.

My vote was serious, in "serious times" as I felt (and still do feel) he was(is) trying to cover for a slip.

How is broken covering? How is what a few other people thought he meant not logical?

[farside22]

@DrShotty

AntB- 1. Why the sarcasm? and why the hatred? You mad bro?

1) I'm a sarcatic person. Also, people seem to take notice of sarcastic comments more for some reason...
2) Because people are out to kill me(?) - No hatred though in honesty.
3) Nope. Why would I be?

@Farsight
I can understand others may see it differently. However, we have punctuation to clarify things like this.
"helping uncle jack off his horse" can be read many number of ways. "Helping Uncle Jack, off his horse" leaves only one meaning
The "shifty-eyed" emote doesn't exactly reinforce his case.

This is really lame. IGYEOU.
Archer do you have anything else to add to the convo?

[farside22]

Farside, what about Nacho is scummy aside from "I know him well"?

I covered some of this in game, but when I see that someone is posting elsewhere and not posting in game it gets my scumdar up. Also I do know when I was scum in the past I would see the PM and go to the QT to talk with my scum buddies first and then confirm later.
It's why I question Nacho, who is around.

[farside22]

I don't get this push on AntB. I don't even know why Nacho is voting for Ant as he didn't make a case with that vote.
AntB is definitely on my list of people who will hurt my head this game. I don't see scum dig graves further and as pointed out if he backs down he's scum. I just don't get why Ant is pushing the case. It makes no sense.
I really hate the term chainsaw by the way. For me it's some big fancy word till it has merit.

[farside22]

I'm taking some time to read each player. There are a small hand full that haven't said much.
I will have more later, when the little goes down for a nap. For now here is what I have so far on some people.

andrew94 - Why is it you understand CN misreading and let it be here but you attack AntB over and over for his view which is similar?
andrew gives me second thoughts over and over.

Egg - 2 post. Second post looks like a catch up post with lots of questions. What I dislike from Egg in this post is after reading everything in the game he places a vote on a player based on a RVS vote.
scummy as hell

brokenscraps- I like broken. He comes out of the gate attacking and looking for things to get the game going. My biggest complaint on broken is how he bypass's the question from archer and answers it with a question. I do find myself agreeing with most of what he said about Egg

AntB - Things I don't like about Ant is how he attacks those who attack him and use words like chainsaw and OMGUS on someone he wasn't even voting for here
I really still find this lame
Punctuation at this stage of the game is just bad scum hunting or scum noting being able to make a good case because they are scum.
this I understand and agree and disagree. Defending someone isn't always a scum tell. I can see more the OMGUS with this explanation.
why focus on broken only Scum defend town to look town you know. So if you find Andrew's comment more scummy in a sense then why not push that more?
Meh did it a post later.
Not a fan of AntB some of the attacks were just weak, when he finally makes his point understood I step back and realize he's not scummy just someone I find myself shaking my head at.

Archer - Archer has added little to nothing of the convo. Why is AntB sticking to something scummy? Why keep a vote on a random vote at this point if you reread the game? As for the inactive comment well pot you are the kettle calling them out.

[farside22]

JesseSheffield - Why do you feel AntB is panicing? What post alludes to that? So far nothing of scum hunting, 3 post with little said.

MidnightHike - probable flaker. Confirmed and nothing more posted.

slMagnvox - so far nothing interesting or even remotely valuable coming from this player. 2 post and I think he's a newbie.

Nachomamma8 - I don't like Nacho's vote on Broken. I have seen players like broken who say things like confirmed 2nd scum and it doesn't mean anything. I really, really dislike his vote on AntB that has no reasoning. I see no scum hunting from Nacho so far. He also has posted elsewhere in other games and not posted here which is avoidance.
#1 scum suspect

smashbro_of_the_SSS - nothing of value here either. Looking at smash he's not posting anywhere else either. I say busy and have no view on him right now.

drmyshottyizsik - Lots of one liners with no substance. I have a feeling this is normal for drmy. He's someone I would keep an eye on.

Chaotic Neutrality - A part of me likes CN. This is more gut then anything. I don't find any of his comments flawed. I think I just wished I saw more from him to decide firmly those gut feelings.

[farside22]

In short I find more scummy.
#1 is nacho followed by Egg, andrew and archer as the main four I find the scummiest.

[farside22]

farside your link links me to this

i kinda see brokenscrap's first point as a way to start conversation. however, the fact that nacho didnt respond to the point makes it sus.

about cn, i now believe he really misread. because if you see his posts, he later said 'i confirmed 4th' which shows that he really misunderstood

???


also, cn replaced out of all his games ( i think)

yes and my question was why was it understandable (before CN requested replacement) for CN to misunderstand and stand by his view but AntB is scummy for the same?

[farside22]

RE: AntB
farside, I'm voting AntB because he doesn't believe anything he's saying. Read all of his posts, and you'll see that the people he's ever called scum were "2/3 of [his] wagon", which doesn't refer to anyone in particular. He votes brokenscraps for trying to cover up a slip, not for being scum, he hasn't explained why he's voting me. And no, this isn't a "quirk" of his. Then, of course, there's how he responds to me tricking him. He doesn't call me out for rolefishing. It doesn't set off his scumdar at all. Last time I played with this guy, he SUICIDE BOMBED a guy for voting him and not explaining. So the fact that this doesn't sit strange with him and know DAMN well he's prone to OMGUS, well, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

How do you know he doesn't believe what he is saying?
I get what you are saying about 2/3 comment and his vote on you is leaning on more careful which is scummy.
I know scum sit and wait more. Broken was the one who brought up the rolefishing first, which AntB then jumps on and votes for nacho.

@AntB: Why is nacho scum? Give many reason's

[farside22]

@andrew: antb has been explaining his reason's all game.
I will add more later. I have got to get to work.

[farside22]

Lord_Hur!!!! God girl how long has it been since we played mafia together?
Just to interject my 2 cents on sotS - gut instinct doesn't sit well, but I looked at his post around MS and he really isn't posting anywhere much. It could be he is busy but I don't like his second vote on nacho nor his vote on shotty which is essentially a throw a way vote.

Archer post 79 is one of those I have suspicion on people but I not voting on my suspects post. I note that Nacho is complaining about AntB doing this but says nothing on Archer doing the same.

@andrew: in one post explain why you think AntB is scum.

@sotSpost98 why are you only looking at those that either are not posting or are typical flakers (from what I read from others)

@Jesse: Who is scum and why?


I'm torn between Jesse and Archer as scum with Egg, but Nacho still holds my interest. Ever get the impression someone giving a half ass scum hunt and doing really nothing but trying to look town. Well Nacho gives me that.

[farside22]

I just took a look at some games of drmy to figure out his play. He seems more one liner as scum but I saw a game he was a bunch of one liners and was town, so null for now but someone to really keep an eye on. If he doesn't talk more he is more likely scum reading is previous games finished.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15693 (town)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15650 (mafia)


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&start=0 (town)

[farside22]

My vote for nacho is stone set now methinks. Far too much wagon jumping, not enough reasoning, seems to either be half arsed about the game in general or scum after an easy ride. The posts he's put about me not believing my vote seem to say to opposite IMO, in addition to lord_hurs' backtracking and contradictory comment, I provide my reasoning and stand by my guns throughout. Surely if I didn't believe my own vote I would backtrack, give no reasoning and back down very quickly under town pressure?

This ^ a thousand times this.

Yes, in that post I clarified my vote for Egg. The switch of my vote was because just before I posted I checked to see of there were any new developments, and there was. One of the things I saw was what looked to me like a scum slip. Is an apparent scum slip a "weak reason to vote?" So I simply added to my post, otherwise I would be seen as ignoring the questions asked of me. And thats something I dont like people doing to me, so I always try to answer everyones questions, or otherwise be a hypocrite.

This is really scummy in my view. I used to do this as scum where I would point out things like look I'm answering questions.
Also one new development from Ant switches a vote from someone you sound (in the post that hur quoted) that Egg was scummy but vote for AntB for a weaker reason is a scum move.

Archer moves to the number 2 spot for scum.

[farside22]

Oh sorry for calling you girl Lord_Hur.
I am definitely not as active in games as I used to be but I think I finally figured out how to fit mafia into my schedule.

[farside22]

omg, davidparker? = =

farside, can you explain your 'this ^ a thousand times this' i dont understand

Basically I completely agreed with antb about Nacho. That was the 3rd vote from Nacho with very little reason to no reason and seems to be more following BWs.

[farside22]

farside - I was responding to another post, I did not randomly come out and say "hey look at me, I'm answering questions"

I just reread the question to you and your comment in full in make sure and I still find it an unnecessary comment, almost a filler to add something more. The question was about your vote on AntB when your statement was in the prior post had talked more about why Egg was scum and I still don't feel you explained why AntB was scummier then Egg at all.

@Nacho: Please tell me 4 people that you find scummier or suspicious and why.

[farside22]

Both Nacho and archer ignored my questions to them.

Once more with feeling:

NACHO: WHICH FOUR PLAYERS DO YOU FIND SCUMMY/SUSPICIOUS AND WHY?

ARCHER: WHY DID YOU VOTE ANTB AT THE TIME WHEN THE CASE YOU HAD MADE IT SOUND THAT EGG WAS MORE SCUMMY?

Maybe using caps will get the attention I require.

[farside22]

@AntB: I looked at your wiki just to see if what Nacho is claiming is true. Do you have a finished game you can link me to where you were scum?

Also nacho I did find one game where AntB didn't vote right away on who he was suspicious of. However that game was a vengeful and quick voting is something that can happen in that game.

[farside22]

Just for one last bit from me in regards to Nacho that is my meta on him.
The one thing I recalled in our last game together and he was town that he when he was town in that game he came off as a complete jerk.
Here was a game I found that is a sample of Nacho's attitude as town in another game:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14367

I looked at the wiki to see if there was more current games from Nacho. Seeing someone more, lets say nicer, makes that voice in the back of my head think he is scum.

[farside22]

After reading Nacho's scum suspect list I'm more certain then ever he is scum.

@archer: I don't see how your response to lord in that post anwsers why AntB was scummier then Egg to switch your vote.

I need to go and couldn't read the giant post from the replacement to make a comment on it yet.
Will get to that after work.

[farside22]

Would love to know why you think Nacho's scum list makes him certain scum?

He post a scum list in which 2 of the player he found scummy were just because.

Looker OR MidnightHike-
Because I needed a fourth and these two people haven't done anything.

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not. He completely ignores egg, smash and drmy who haven't done anything either.
Also when players are town in my view they don't focus on one or two people they look at everyone and question them, which I expect from Nacho if he was town.
Also if you look (yes this is meta) at the game I gave an example when he is town his reasoning on who is scum is more fleshed out then one liners.

[farside22]

Just to be clear in case people missed it here is my full reason's why Nacho is scum

1. He is active elsewhere on MS and ignores this game some days
2. He jumps from one vote to another on two separate people with little to no reason, although he claims both or scummy.
3. Every post I read doesn't not look or read as someone scum hunting. He post lots of arguments with players with no fleshed out reason's for his suspects.
4. His scum suspect list is weak. It has no real thought process or fleshed out aspects or comment amount other players then the 2 he has argued with all game.

meta reason:
He's not being a bully (IE: jerk) like he is when I saw him in another game and he was town.

[farside22]

huh?
he posts wall of long walls which makes it a 'battle of wills'

Where do you see him actual scum hunting in those walls?

[farside22]

@farside22: can you link me some recent games of you playing as town?

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not.

I really like this. I'll use it in future games.

Oh, and do you think I play as a jerk?

Here is the last game I played in before I took a break. I had to replace out do to RL issues

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14753

No I don't think you are a jerk but nacho for sure when I saw him as town act like a jerk to others

This, coming from you? Who has been tunneling me all game? Do you even have a 4 player scum suspect list with "fleshed out" reasons?

Now I know you are not reading this game


Somewhere in this game I feel like I missed a conversation between Lord and David but I don't have time to go back and figure it out.

Also Nacho you know I can't link ongoing games but all people have to do is check your post a day and see you are all over MS and do ignore this game a couple of days you were posting elsewhere.

Also the jerk link I post for Nacho shows a more fleshed out scum list he posted on day 1.
IGMYOU David

[farside22]

Alright. I remember you being much more aggressive and harsh as town, but in your previous game as town and the one before, you were about as nice as in this game.

Yeah my sig probably is closer to how I was when I had more time to play mafia. With less time to play I'm more I guess I would say I try to explain everything as clear as possible because I don't have always have time to repeat myself over and over with different words to be more clear.
I would say I'm aggressive in my views on who is scum. But maybe that's my own view.

Why stating your reasons for voting Nachomamma8 without anyone asking for them?

David's intro post he said he didn't get the Nacho case so I spelled it out clearly my views and why in one post.

[farside22]

With 8 days until deadline, I'd love to hear from brokenscraps and shotty since nacho is the only wagon at this point. No one else even has more than 1 vote, which is worrying to some extent. And shotty replacing out is annoying because of this, although we will have some fresh eyes on Nacho. Not having a competing wagon is kinda meh.

Considering we need a lynch to occur unless another wagon kicks of it's going to be nacho... or nacho.

Problem is the other 3 people I find scummy are more floaters. I don't know if voting out a non-participant would give any info to the game no matter their alignment.

[farside22]

@smash: Why egg over Jesse?

[farside22]

My problem with egg is if you look you see this is his first game, he isn't posting elsewhere and I frankly think he is going to flake like many a new person I have seen do in the past.
I can't say I'm a fan of his play in the least I just don't know if it's newbie town or scum play.

[farside22]

• Read through and nothing jumps out at me as uber scummy. Got my eyes on lord_hur and sotS but nothing damning's come up yet.
  
• Until his return or an adequate replacement, VOTE: smashbro_of_the_SSS.

Looker I would like an explanation on why you voted for smash here and what about Lord that has you eying him?

[farside22]

Actually I could get on board with what looker pointed out. I reread Andrew how has contributed nothing but fluff and floating by saying nothing of scum hunting. His vote has been on Ant with a few questions that were pointless. I looked at his other games to see how he plays. Looking he plays like this no matter his alignment. However I saw He did push more on those he found scummy.
Show here http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69&start=0
Looking at the scum game here He's a hard one to read alright.
In fact looking at both games neither fit how he is acting here. So I'm going to get away from the meta on this because it tells me nothing.
This case is based on game play here and it's exactly nothing. Pointless questions, floating by with little said and non contribution of scum hunting.

unvote:
vote: andrew

[farside22]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

Egg has no other post and I'm not sure if he is newbie scum or town. He could be avoiding the game because he's scum and doesnt' want to slip or he could be town and be really busy.
With Andrew he is around MS more. I have something I can grasp on and know he isn't a newbie that may flake.

[farside22]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

I did that 2 times as town (in newbie games), so I don't really have anything against Egg (or on the other heavy lurkers) in term of alignment suspicion (of course, I hate their play like all of you, except scum of course).

Ok, so I reread andrew94's ISO (took about one minute) and the only scum-hunting I've seen is saying Nachomamma8 used a wall of text in his last game as scum. Nothing else worth mentioning except that strange bussing comment (I've always seen drawing unconditional scum relations day 1 as highly presomptuous and I never do it, but I've never noticed a link between this behavior and alignment). This guy is a lurker just as I remembered, and I have no reading of him.

And here comes the old debate, should town lynch lurkers? They're detrimential to town (if all players lurked, mafia would be a game of dice, and scum would always win), and therefore I hate their guts, so i'd say yes. I doubt it's really rational, though. Lynching a lurker gives no info to town, and let scum lead the game.

The problem with some games if lots of people lurk and are town they hurt the town. Look at my invitational in regards to this. The mafia keeps the lurkers around because they see them as helpful to their win condition (I sure know I did that as scum as well).
I still find nacho scummy and I find it odd that andrew notes nacho's play but doesn't vote for him.
It's a connection I'm willing to explore.

[farside22]

@Andrew: I wouldn't say looking at some of the vote counts (this being one at point) that AntB was ignored. Sure he has one vote count now but that happens where people find many different people scum. I personally don't see AntB scum and explain it at one point.

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (4)

- farside22, brokenscraps, AntB, drmyshottyizsik

AntB (4)

- andrew94, lord_hur, Nachomamma8, Archer

drmyshottyizsik (1)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS

Yet to vote (4): JesseSheffield, MidnightHike, Egg, Looker
================================================================

Second Prod:

MidnightHike

As for why point out your meta. I did the research I need to keep it somewhere as a reminder and the game for me is a place I keep my reminders on players in the game.

[farside22]

what does that vote count show...

What did the pressure on antb tell you if anything and why?

[farside22]

@farside22: can you link me some recent games of you playing as town?

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not.

I really like this. I'll use it in future games.

I am intrigued by this because I find the opposite to be true. As scum, your information level is much greater - you know who is or isn't scum and thus you never have to consider the possibility that you are wrong. As town, this is clearly not true - someone who is genuinely scum-hunting will always have a voice in the back of their head that they may be picking up on the wrong trail or misinterpreting someone's behaviour. This fact leads to greater equivocation, especially when it comes to making a suspect list at an early stage of the game.

Whenever I was scum I tried hard not to buss my scum partner day 1 (as it's always harder to recover for me with only 2 scum left). Trying to look for something scummy from town is harder because I can see the dense people that are considered the easy lynch and looking at those you know to be town that act town you can't point to as scum because what reason do you really have.
I know I fumble as scum looking and I have seen it from others in other games fumble.
As town I'm suspicious of almost everyone unless there is a town feel or something strikes me as town. I go more on gut and I don't know or see many people who fake that very easily.

[farside22]

Sorry for the double post.
I will try hard not to judge the dizzyizzy account. What I want from Bella is a scum list once she is done with her read and why she finds those scummy.

[farside22]

I will try hard not to judge the dizzyizzy account.

Why would you do that? You've been pretty heavily on the meta side until now.

If dizzyizzy is the one I"m remember it was the one that flaked in a game and did nothing.
My first reaction to seeing the alt account name was to joke about the policy. Bella's reaction was felt like someone not amused.
Mostly I wasn't going to join the policy joke after that or think about that flaky person and judge her for her worth in this game.
I still plan on seeing if I have the right dizzy when I have time, but I have a feeling she may be telling the truth about it doing no good if she is.

[farside22]

Anyway... It seems strange to be asking for a scum list at this stage of the game, with the general activity levels of some of the players and there being several replacements already. The data doesn't exist to perform such an action. So, I decline to provide one. I will, however, provide my current thoughts on each player.

I don't see why it's strange to ask with 13 pages and deadline in about a week. There should be an impression or idea which you had but I don't like the wishy washiness you have in your post were you don't want to make a firm stance as though you are scared to make a stand.

[farside22]

No offense to people who feel my experience is a threat.
Thank you much, I don't see it maybe because I know I have played poor as scum in some games and poor as town.
Everyone has weekness's. I completely understand lack of trust.

Battousai replaces JesseSheffield.

Yah!!! Someone I know something about and don't have to research as much!

@antb

suspects
antb- for reasons stated
lord_hur comes in , seconds the policy lynch, BUT doesnt vote. comments on bella is not a 'newb' then says ' i was just pointing it out, adding to the case' then 'fos david for interprating it otherwise???'

and batt

What happened to the comment you made about Nacho and how he is acting in this game?

Batt: I don't see a real good post here
You make 4 points without many reason's
For example how is this:

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

How is this even valuable right now? What about 260 gives you the town/scum depending on Nacho's flip?
Why would you vote for Bella?

I found myself agreeing with Andrew for once.

unvote:
vote: Batt

[farside22]

"249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum" is why I suspect Bella.

*Reminder to self to look at this later*

I think Batt has defend himself well. Typically I would agree 100% with DP about the lack of vote. With 1 week left I don't see why withholding a vote does. It looks more scummy, but right now I'm going on gut with this and my gut says although I don't trust Bella something I find rings and sounds sincere.

That said I'm going back to voting Nacho
He is posting just find around MS and continues to actively lurk in this game. I'm betting he is hoping we ignore him and he can skate by.

unvote:
vote: Nacho

[farside22]

@Batt:
I don't get this statement at all here:

"249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum" is why I suspect Bella.

When post 249 is this:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2743203

@Nacho:
Batt explain most of his reason's for his post well under pressure.
When asked about explain his reasoning to each question.
There are still two items yet to resolve.
1) is the for sure statement (which I don't get the difference if it's smash or DP), why would it be for sure you know the alignment based on Nacho flip
2) why he would vote for Bella

Really this back and forth here I don't get. I read over and over and it's confusing the hell out of me.

DavidParker substituted in for Smashbro and it still doesn't make sense.

That's not true. Smash is still in the game.
Why are you voting Batt? Why actively lurk in a game?

[farside22]

@Batt: So you think it's more likely that Bella is scum based on dmry asking for replacement and are willing to vote for her based on the assumption that scum would replace more then town?
Is it because he states he is hurting the town?
I personally see it as a null tell at best as I have seen town and scum both make similiar statements when requesting replacement.

[farside22]

How on earth can you classify Batt's shifting, unsure defence that still makes no sense as "posting well under pressure"?

People are going on him and even after reading Lord's response to my confuse I still don't see it.
I don't see, typically, scum hurrying post and going back and forth this badly. Usually they are more careful about what they say.
I don't even really see why the harping on things like this:

Requesting replacement is null. Requesting replacement because you are hurting town, scummy. Maybe not a D2/D3 vote, but it's good enough for a D1 vote.

You really, really aren't good at explaining things : you just keep repeating the same thing, which is exactly what your (apparent) suspect said...

Makes no sense.
My thought reading Batt's response was what makes the difference if you find it scummy day 1 and voting but not scummy enough for a day 2 or 3 vote.

Battousai replaces JesseSheffield.

Yah!!! Someone I know something about and don't have to research as much!

Batt's flapping about his contradiction and farside's strange defence of him make me wonder whether this is less a case of "Yay, new player" and more a case of "Yay, new scum partner". It's a more reasonable interpretation of this comment than Batt's interpretation that the way Shotty replaced out screamed scum.

Please explain how Batt is flipping out?
Also you can think what you want about my statement but when your time is not as much as others it's nice not to have to go searching a player to find out how they play. It's time consuming to do.

[farside22]

Farside- I said it is not scummy enough D2/D3 for two reasons. D1- We have very little information to go on but on the day posts. This is pretty scummy post, but it isn't scummy enough for anyone to vote for when there are much stronger cases (which happen post D1); and 2, As the days go by, we have less leeway with mislynching and cases need to be much stronger.

1) meh. I take day 1 as informational as the next day but I know some players who take night actions and day 1 lynches informative.
2) I think this depends on more if scum or town was lynched day 1.
I think there should be more reason's at this point if you find scummy then some null post.
What is your view on Lord Hur and Andrew?

[farside22]

Alright people Monday is deadline and we need to reach a consensus. A no lynch is bad for the town.
I'm working on my final thoughts for the day, along with a who I would lynch today and why.
@archer: Right now I'm split with you being either a lost town who has no clue wtf is really going on or scum just floating by.
@Egg: Make time or ask for replacement.
@Smash: See what I said to Egg above.

The reset will follow either today or tomorrow.

[farside22]

I'm starting this my stating my top two suspects are Nacho/andrew. I see a distance/connection between them. #1 is because of andrew

andrew94

dude ok, in one of my recently finsihed games, nacho was scum and he posted walls of shit to confuse everyone and its a trap.
ffs

3) non contribution of scum hunting? i find antb scummy and pointed out nachp's walls but antb just got ignored (now has 1 vote)

These 2 quote really sing to me as andrew votes for Ant but never give's nacho more then a scum suspect meta call. Later his list changes:

@antb

suspects
antb- for reasons stated
lord_hur comes in , seconds the policy lynch, BUT doesnt vote. comments on bella is not a 'newb' then says ' i was just pointing it out, adding to the case' then 'fos david for interprating it otherwise???'

and batt

I asked him after this list what happened to his Nacho suspicion with no response

Nachomamma8

Multiple votes without reasoning.
The only good reason's I found from him were here

now adding his latest vote with no reason here
Add not reading the game


I want an explanation from Nacho about this:

JesseSheffield-
Not taking stances, noncommital, lurker.

What was he noncommital about and what post leads you to saying he was noncommital

Looker:

post a list with different pretty colors with no explanation

He promises a post but instead just ask a question to LH.
Gives a suspect list with no reason here
He has some good post as well. One on why he feels Jesse is town, why he thinks Andrew is scum.

I looked into this players games and based on his plays in these games:

scum
town
I see more scum then town. As town he was more.....I would say emotional. There is a sense of real hard scum hunting. Reading his scum play he is more distant which is how I see him playing here. Since this is more meta then anything he is fourth on my scum list.

Battousai (Replacing: JesseSheffield)

Bad entrance in the game. I don't see a good fleshed out thought process in Batt's first post

town
scum

Call me any sort of name you want but the above is how I would expect batt to act in this game instead of his entrance.
What I don't like about Batt is his reasoning for who he would vote for. He basically has 2 people on his list of who he would vote for and very little in so far as reasoning.

Since again I'm basing some of this on meta and not the game and his game play is questionable he is third on the list.

Plus I had that little voice in my head wonder if Nacho is voting Batt to look more town by bussing one of his scum partners.

All of this goes back to Nacho. For me and everything I see if he flips scum like I suspect I would go after andrew

[farside22]

I'm sticking with my vote on Egg. I've gone back and forth on other people and its reached a point where I need new info again to actually make up my mind cause I'm going round in circles in my head. But Egg has remained a suspect throughout so I'm going with my gut.

What would Egg's flip tell you if he flipped scum or town about the rest of the players in the game?

[farside22]

Theorize with me for a moment here Nacho.
If AntB is lynched today and flipped town who would you go after day 2 and why?
If AntB is lynched today and flipped scum who do you see a connection with and why?

I'm going to go that extra step and theorize about my second question for a moment here.
Lets say AntB is lynched and flipped scum I would suspect looker as his partner in crime for this:

Before looker took over the other guy (Si) posted a defense for AntB and never came back to respond to the question about what AntB said and doing the same. here

Then I would add Batt this this trio based on AntB ignoring most of what was said and staying out of the argument going on between Batt and LH.


Yah!!!! I feel better. I officially feel I have the scum teams figure out

(almost)

If nacho is scum
nacho/andrew/?? (either batt or insert lurker here)
if AntB is scum
ant/looker/Batt

Putting this here to brag later if I'm right.

[farside22]

Reading the case that Nacho placed in full for me. I have to disagree on one part of the case.

That whole comment from AntB about this is how I play, blah, blah, blah.
I didn't read that as him saying it's a meta thing, but just about his play in this game, (IE: someone who plays and does just because) Really it's not an excuse but I didn't see it as a take a look at my meta as Nacho did.
I don't think showing one example of how he played dictates that he always plays that way either. If nacho can show he always does X as town then the who meta argument would have merrit.

The rest of the case made me think a bit. I'm not sure about how AntB switch his vote from broken to andrew when he did. I have seen town and scum do it, but I do agree it is typically scum more then town to switch their votes under pressure more then town.

[farside22]

david, can you explain how that makes him town.

farside, didnt you say earlier that batt defended himself pretty well

yes? And?
I'm not voting for him. Doesn't mean I don't notice those things that ping my scumdar in regard to other players and things I notice in the game.

[farside22]

1. Battousai-scum is a criminal mastermind. He does not ever flinch under pressure. If you played with him that much, you should know that : it certainly didn't take me long to see it.

How is he not flinching. He is almost babbling about. I see nacho sliding by and lurking. I have been suspecting him since the start. I will admit to those few nagging feelings I have and because of it would switch to Batt.
As I said before I expect Batt as scum to be more careful in his wording and not so much hyperboyle coming.

[farside22]

Hmm, I don't see him babbling about (if I understand this well, english isn't my first language). Anyway.

Batt explain most of his reason's for his post well under pressure.

So, you list this as a reason for unvoting Battousai.

He is almost babbling about.

And then you post this. Looks a bit contradictory to me.

I felt when I posted that he was answering questions well and I didn't see what you saw in his post. I even said I didn't get it.
All the back and forth between the 2 of you makes him look more babbling. (there is a better word but my brain isn't working with me today to think of a better term to use).

[farside22]

LH: you never answered this:

How is he not flinching.

I forgot to put the question mark, but I see it this way. You question him about what he wrote. He states, this is what I meant, you back it up and say but this is what I see. He reiterates something he already said before, you feel you caught him backtracking his words.
I have seen town and scum flub there wording. Try to make things more clear and then get called out for backtracking. ......I'm now thinking about a game I was in with VV who flipped scum doing that......
i need to look at something

[farside22]

Sigh that search didn't help me figuring out Batt.
I do have a question for Nacho and Batt:

How would you characterize the person you are voting for as scum, play in this game compared to how they are playing in the game we are in here?

[farside22]

The only mistake I've seen from him is thinking he could find a better "fake name" than the one the mod gave him

????

[farside22]

damn

unvote:
vote: AntB

I'm starting to think that AntB/looker/Batt combo is coming to be true.
I may have to switch Batt with (insert lurker person here). Because I don't know too many scum telling people to vote either them or another person and get a lynch going.

[farside22]

Is an extension possible?

damn

unvote:
vote: AntB

I'm starting to think that AntB/looker/Batt combo is coming to be true.
I may have to switch Batt with (insert lurker person here). Because I don't know too many scum telling people to vote either them or another person and get a lynch going.

I think I get why you're unvoting Nacho but could you explain yourself better? When you're doing something that could easily be bad for the town (voting for someone who isn't a major bandwagon with deadline nearly here) you better have good explanations.

Deadline is today....I actual did forget.

Mod: Can we extend the deadline please?

I will be on again today to see if he says yes or no and switch to Batt if necessary..I no longer believe Nacho is scum

[farside22]

sorry I haven't been on this weekend, but my views are the same.

I agree with antb, what happened to change your mind so much, especially since antb wasn't really mentioned by Nacho at all?
.

^this is probably the lurker that is part of the scum team. I have no actual proof but when Nacho has been actually riding AntB most of the game and had a case on him 2 pages ago I suspect post like this to come from scum.

I've done this as scum, as a last attempt to look townish. It doesn't make it any more risky for him, since he's de facto in the lead, and we're at the deadline. So, null tell for me. I'm surprised that you derive a town feeling from it.

I think about his as well, it could be a ploy, which is why I would vote for Batt if the mod doesn't extend the deadline.

[farside22]

It bothers me a bit, though, that if Battousai is not scum, we'll get less info than with a Nachomamma8 lynch...

In what way?

[farside22]

unvote vote batt

Can't add more taking off to pick up the little one.

[farside22]

what im saying is batt could be the legit jk, and egg CC'ed otherwise they could never get him dead

Well considering mafia tend to out roles and Egg is newb I'm going with Batt lying scum.

[farside22]

Vote: AntB

This vote is based on the lack of comment from AntB in regards to Batt. He never stated any suspicion, he tried to push more on lynching Bella or Nacho and avoided talking about Batt and his play at all.

[farside22]

Mod: I will be on Limited Access this weekend. I may be able to post Saturday morning, but I don't count on it.

[farside22]

In all honestly I was too focused on my targets to consider anyone else... no doubt it will now be my undoing.

I still want to know the reason you voted me D1 farside...

Because Nacho was making sense, I felt Batt was town with the statement he made about wanting a lynch and pushing people to vote no matter who and after reading Nacho's comment you seemed the scummiest with my scum team possibility.

So you completely ignored most everyone's comments on Batt and didn't comment on what people said or state an opinion because Bella was just that scummy to you?
That doesn't sound like the game you were playing. You voted and focused on Broken, then when pressure was applied you voted for andrew, then nacho.
So you say were more pushing a lynch for Bella and ignoring everyone else? Is that really a something people do that play this game?

[farside22]

I am not buying this. It's too obvious. Scum have received a big blow, and, imho, would go for a safe path. Were I scum, and if AntB is town (I still think there's more chance he is than average), I would NK Nachomamma8 to tackle AntB, his main opponent of D1.

This is a first thought. Time for a reread.

Meh I have killed players as mafia in the hopes that it has people think like this. I consider night kills a null tell used by mafia to manipulate anyway or as DP pointed out killing the most town player in the game.

[farside22]

farside, i didnt feel batt was town with his actions/backtracking yesterday

I find you saying this interesting as you didn't switch your vote to him until the counter claim from Egg, however you did state suspicion on him.
I see you have a habit so far in this game of not voting very much. Is there a reason you didn't place a vote on Batt till the fake claim?

[farside22]

Just looking in for a few minutes before I have to take off for the day.
@smash: How did you not know that deadline was at least coming when you post here is right before another player as for a request
2) Nacho saw you around the site, which means you were in Central Park, why would you not check on this game at all when you checked onto 2 other games that day? Why does it matter if it was deadline or not?

[farside22]

3) Looker (jesse)

Damn it, why is it always people that I find most likely town who make town slips?

About AntB, yes I know my argument based on the NK isn't good (actually, they rarely are...), I said so when Archer objected to it. Problem is, I don't really have a read on this guy, so I'm trying unorthodox things. On reread, his walls of texts war with Nachomamma8 still look so much like many, many town fights that start early D1... There's this lack of interaction with Battousai, but it can also be explained by tunnel-vision. I don't remember him interacting with me much, for example.

It's not just lack of interaction with a player, it's there is a viable argument going on with Batt, people are suspicious and he is more focused on Bella and ignoring what is being said in the game I take issue with. I know I have been single-minded in pursuits, but I still read and comment on what is going on the game as much as I can. I find it very strange AntB doesn't say anything about Batt during that time.

[farside22]

antb, i dont care.

vote antb

I want to tag this comment for later in my head. Something just nagging at me that I can't put a finger on at this second.

[farside22]

Lol? Is that you mentioning it so you can bring it up later for a lynch? it's a one line post. It should be pretty clear right now what's wrong with it. And I see what's wrong with it, but it's mostly just representative of andrew's fail-play.

It's hard to explain but the best I can say is that I don't like Andrew's question to me that leads to nowhere, then the vote on AntB after. It's like he wanted to make a case, realized he had no where he can go and went back to the only other out he had.
It's that nagging, Andrew is scum feeling. That post is a reminder to me because I need to reread Andrew again to see if I'm going crazy.

[farside22]

Oh, Andrew is definitely a scum possibility that I'm not ignoring at this point, but the phrase "something just nagging at me that i can't put a finger on" makes no sense because it was blatantly obvious what was wrong with andrew's post to me.

Hey I have 3 games I'm in, too many things going on in my head and an uncertainty if I remembered the situation correctly.
It's my flag as a reminder. Either something was going to come or I would say never mind if I had the wrong thought. I do it when I'm too busy to make more notes.

[farside22]

Should I say who I jailed?

I say you should too, but this doesn't clear anyone. I just want to know why and who so I can get your frame of mind.

[farside22]

@andrew: Can you explain exactly why you were asking those questions to me that went nowhere? And who else beside AntB you find scummy and why?

unvote

[farside22]

I was mistaken about the questions. You didn't ask anything just insinuated some suspicion. I do wonder about something else. I asked you this:

farside, i didnt feel batt was town with his actions/backtracking yesterday

I find you saying this interesting as you didn't switch your vote to him until the counter claim from Egg, however you did state suspicion on him.
I see you have a habit so far in this game of not voting very much. Is there a reason you didn't place a vote on Batt till the fake claim?

Your answer:

i believe i was voting antb farside?

That doesn't really answer my question. Why did you wait for a claim before switching to Batt?

• AntB's vote for andrew is off-putting. So is the lack of built case you proposed you'd bring.
  
• Andrew commenting on my "not good ness", while humorous, is understandable, seeing as my avatar is a warmongering Nazi cyborg. If that's not the "not good ness" you were referring to, then I don't know what you mean.
  
• Bella's response to andrew's answer is also off-putting...off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh. Her exploitation of the WIFOM induced by Nachomamma's final rundown is also off-putting...off-putting, opportunistic, and scummy. UNVOTE: VOTE: Bella

With everything going on day 1. This seems very weak reasoning to be voting a person.

@smash: you didn't answer the questions I had ask:

Just looking in for a few minutes before I have to take off for the day.
@smash: How did you not know that deadline was at least coming when you post here is right before another player as for a request
2) Nacho saw you around the site, which means you were in Central Park, why would you not check on this game at all when you checked onto 2 other games that day? Why does it matter if it was deadline or not?

[farside22]

sorry, missed it. and yeah, it was within the day of the lynch, right before i went to bed. I really can't say anything other than i forgot. I know it's a horrible excuse, but that's really what happened. Nothing really else to say about it.

I'm not really buying this. You were obviously around the site. I don't know anyone who couldn't at least check on all their games to see what is going on unless they are scum that are lurking.

vote: Smash

Right now I'm also looking at AntB for more insight on his scum list and andrew for reasoning as well.

[farside22]

Putting some thoughts down while I have a few moments. If this looks like chaos I was interuppted fixing and eating dinner inbetween looking things up.

AntB:

Why do you have time for your other games and sign up for more games, but don't give this game the attention it deserves?


Okay going over AntB's post again and looking at the games I found where he flipped town (i found none so far were he was scum) I'm 90% sure AntB is scum.
Typically if you look over AntB's other games, you see scum hunting, cases he made and a push of town letting everyone know his oppinions clear, which is all missing here.
Never mind he still hasn't made a case, voted for Andrew and is posting in other games just fine.

Smash:

My issues with smash was one his vote on Egg was weak scum hunting at best. It's the equivalant of lynching lurkers.
When asked about others who were lurking look who gets town credit:

Even though Jesse hasn't been on much lately, at the beginning of the game, he seemed townish. He knew what was going on, and commented, and it seemed like he was trying to help, or at least point out important things. Now that I look back over the ISO, I'm not as confident about a town read on him, but I still see Egg as worse, not doing pretty much anything important. All he did was ask questions and then disappear, replying only when directly asked questions.

Most of smash's cases I would say are on those that are "easy" lynches that say little to nothing

@ farside:

Sorry I haven't been posting as much as you like, but I tend to post only when I have something important to say, so it's sometimes infrequent. As more days go on and there are less people, I usually start posting more.


That being said, my view hasn't changed. I don't like the Bella/shotty slot for all the previous reasons. I have to admit, whoever said that a nacho flip would give a lot of information is right, so if it comes down to that I'll vote him, but I'd much prefer Bella.

also on my scum list now has archer in it. I don't like his reason for staying on Egg, cause it seems like he just wants to stay out of the mess and not attract attention to himself.

won't be around this weekend, but i will be on sunday night and monday.

Smash also didn't say anything about Batt during the conversation. Most of his pushes is looking at lurkers then point out and voting on them or calling them scummy.

[farside22]

2 more down.
@Bella: Why did you not want to place a vote after reading the game? I looked into your alt in as scum or town you never withheld a vote before. I was wondering what brought on this stubborness.

@andrew:
If you believed this:

farside, i didnt feel batt was town with his actions/backtracking yesterday

Why did you say this before the flip:

unvote vote batt

although egg could be scum doing a 1-1 trade. (jk cant be nk'ed now cos doc just protects him)

I think my only other issue with andrew was how he held his vote on AntB throughout the game. Looking at this meta, however this seems to be standard play.

I'm heading off to sleep now. Still want to look at Archer and Looker one last time. Will have a short list of suspects after some answers and sleep.

[farside22]

Archer:
I got newb read on Archer through out day 1. I looked into a game that he was in archer town
There are some glaring difference between his play here and there. He made cases in that game, which are lacking here, I see more following, then pushing of a lurker (egg) then anything else. My biggest problem with Archer he has yet to make a case on anyone. Most of his post are full of uncertainty or answering questions.
I get a sliding by scum feel rereading him in this game and evaluating his other game.

[farside22]

@Looker:

Why do you still think Andrew is scum after nacho and batt flip?
Why did you say nothing during the Batt argument going on for a few pages or have opinion on it?
Why do you think SoS is not scum?
Why did you vote for bella over AntB when both were doing the same thing according to you here

I'm still not liking looker. Maybe it was my meta research from earlier, but it's not something I can put to words well.


I know, i know there are other players in the game, but I got a good read on CN and Lord. DP I'm not sure about as I still haven't gotten to know him or have a gut feel on him. Broken had a good feel on him at the begining but seems to have posted less.
So I still would like to do broken and DP read before finally analysis time.
At this point leading scum in my view:

AntB
SoS
Archer
Looker

[farside22]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

Someone not making cases and withholding information does not help the town. Yes my observation is based on your last game play in comparison, but knowing that you can actually make a case and scum hunt makes me question your play here. I see nothing wrong with looking at people's play, as I have done it throughout the game.
You are 3rd on the list but I don't like people who ignored Batt and are more lurky get scum pointsl.

[farside22]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't even remember reading what wasn't directly addressed to me.

Why does anyone have to ask you a question to be involved in what is going on in the game?

You switched your vote to bella for 1 post. Saying it's off-putting which is the same phrase you use on Andrew.
There is more then 1 page to this game.
I didn't say the second thing. But here is some WIFOM (1) scum don't kill Nacho he continues his attack on AntB (2) They kill Nacho people wonder if AntB was scum then question if it was a ruse.
That is why I don't WIFOM night kills. Talk to Lord Hur or Bella on that one.
I'm going on what I read yesterday on who I believe is scum.

more later

[farside22]

@smash: Who else do you find scummy and why?
@Bella: I would like the same from you. It's day 2 no excuses.

[farside22]

Egg: Very nice post. I don't usually over-analysis all the post made by dead scum. However I found those comments enlightening.
I also don't disagree with your vote or theory on Archer. I have him as a scum suspect for other reasons.

He's obvBattbuddy and we'll find the last scum in Smashbro/Broken/Farside/Bella/Andrew for sure. I'd bet my cat if I had one. I'm allergic to cats, so I'd probably want to lose that bet. I'd bet something valuable though.

Here's a hint (look at the vote count )
I have this feeling while I was asleep about bella that bothered me. It something I need to research to see if my brain is thinking clearly at 5am to something I missed on my read.

[farside22]

@Egg : yes, there are nice things in this post. Thanks for participating.

Waiting for Archer's defense before I provide comments.

Also, who are you the alt of?

I wish I didn't know. I was disappointed.
In other news my dream 5am brain thinking too much was completely incorrect. I had thought bella was following people, but alas she push and prodded during that time. Looking at her past alt I wonder a little about her lack of vote and lack of scum suspects when reading the game.

[farside22]

@bella: one last thing:

You didn't do a very good job of looking then. I never vote when it is demanded of me and there are definitely several games where I've been bugged about not voting enough. If you try looking again, I'd look at more recent games than not recent games, because I've really hardened against the notion that you should have your vote on someone at all times over the last 6-12 months or so.

Do you have links where you were stubborn like this? What changed your views on voting over the last 6-12 months?

[farside22]

I've read up and checked my other suspects (looker, sots), nothing for a case so I'm holding on to my andrew vote.

A spam attack can happen at any time on any website, the person in question created several account, spammed over 400 posts and comments on the saves which myself and the only other moderator online at the time had to fight through, I can provide an image from one of the tools at our disposable to trace multiple accounts if needed.

This is not scum hunting first off
Second make excuses on why you are more active in other games and ignoring this game is horribly anti-town.
You have come back after days of waiting with next to nothing.

unvote:
vote: AntB

[farside22]

I want to remind people in case AntBscum tries to fake claim what he said earlier in the game.

I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

[farside22]

I want to remind people in case AntBscum tries to fake claim what he said earlier in the game.

I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

Why the hell would you say this now, and not keep it carefully stashed away, to whip it at his face when/if he claims? I only see two logical answers to this :

1. You're scum, and didn't really think about the consequences, because you know AntB is not scum.
2. You're helping your scumbuddy AntB with his claim.

Refute this.

Unvote Vote : farside22

1> I'm at work all day and I for one don't want PR's to be outed like yesterday
2. no see above.

[farside22]

@Lord: Would you rather have scum fake claim again and out another PR and someone forget that little blurb?
I personally would rather protect the PR. I almost thought about saying something like.
Unless AntB claims VT or scum he is 100% lying. After day 1's PR being outed I certainly don't want a doc outed do you?

[farside22]

farside - Both ways have their pros and cons and I would've gone a different route and so I still dont like what you did, but I do understand now why you reminded us all of that little piece.

Like I said I thought of another way of saying it. I saw the L-1 statement from LH and realized AntB might claim while I'm gone. I wasn't sure if I would even log on being Valentine's Day and all so I did a quick reminder about his earlier statement so no surprise fake claim.
Helping keep a PR hidden is a good thing for the town, wouldn't you say?

[farside22]

@Archer: Why didn't you like what I did?

[farside22]

@Lord: Would you rather have scum fake claim again and out another PR and someone forget that little blurb?
I personally would rather protect the PR. I almost thought about saying something like.
Unless AntB claims VT or scum he is 100% lying. After day 1's PR being outed I certainly don't want a doc outed do you?

Yes, being certain that AntB is scum would certainly outweigh risking to out the doc. That would, D4, leave 1 scum against 9 (!) town, 1 or 2 of which would be confirmed. And then, even if the doc is outed, doc/JK is still incredible : doc targets JK, JK flips a coin : heads he targets the doc, tails he targets someone else. This forces scum to either target doc or JK and have 1/2 chance of being ineffective, or target one of the others, leaving 2 confirmed town for a good, long time!

That's actually a better situation than what we have now by a landslide. Any scum managing to win that, with the amount of info we have D1/D2, deserves a scummy award, and I would bow to him/her in awe.

So yes, I was waiting for AntB-scum to bury himself in this ditch, and I consider your blowing it as alarmingly sub-optimal.

My play is not everyone's play, but I still expected much better from farside22-town.

Oh, I checked your time stamps, but I don't think it means much : I'm quite sure you never considered laying a trap for AntB, even if you're town.

I disagree. Scum can be hiding well, unless you know otherwise. I have seen scum blend in well with town and out PR's for the win in the end. They may get that 1/2 chance of failing N2. I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking about having 2 confirmed town in game for as long as possible. If AntB is scum like I suspect then the last scum has no where to hide with a fake claim then.

[farside22]

Andrew is scum, farside is leaning that way.
.

Oh look who's following the crowd with no actual case again.

[farside22]

Okay, can we please get on with lynching AntB now?

I want Archer to answer my question first.

unvote

So there is no quick lynch right now.

[farside22]

@farside22: Your answer intrigues me. Can you give me one example, just one, of outing one PR being more hurtful to town than having 2 scum left instead of 1?

Can I ask why this question assumes that you know for fact that AntB will flip town?

I did state that I believe AntB to be scum. If I'm correct then tomorrow the numbers are 1 scum and no fake claim in the world will save them.
So I ask one more time why do you believe so strongly that AntB will flip town?

Also the game I was referring to were I saw PR's being outed was a mason game with a scum win.
IE: The scum kill each confirmed town and go for the win at the end by bussing, blending in and distancing each other.
So yes out a role, scum kill the role, scum can still win.
In case you missed it. I don't think about what the scum may or may not do for kills.
I am protecting the PR's because one last time for clarity: IT IS A GUARANTEED TOWNIE THAT NO ONE CAN QUESTION!

[farside22]

farside - I think that having 8 town vs 1 mafia (D3) is good enough odds, especially considering the 50/50 chance of scum being able to NK either PR. Absolute worst case the way I see it is if AntB is scum there is 1 left. That scum targets doc, JK targets someone else. If that someone else is town then D3 we have 2 confirmed + 6 town vs 1 scum. If JK magically hits scum well then its game over. And all this of course also hinges on whether or not the real doctor would've actually spoken up, which is certainly not a given. I personally would not have done what you did. Your claim that you were afraid you would not be online though is valid, and hence although I still dont like it, I cant see anything inherently scummy in it.

Dear God. I'm going to have to WIFOM a possiblity aren't I?
Sigh
Okay imagine for a moment that AntB scum fake claimed. The real doc is now outed.
The mafia kill player X (say some random town player) The doc protects the JK, the JK uses his ability on the player the mafia just sent the kill in for.
Now everyone thinks either (a) the doctor saved the JK (b) the JK blocked the killed or (c) someone may think the 3rd is possible and everyone WIFOM themselves into a frenzy and with your thought process would go with (B) choice.
You see why WIFOM a death is bad yet? I would rather see a doctor do their protection of the JK and scum keep kiiling off VT's as it leave 2 confirmed town alive. In case of LYLO it' helps the town (that's what I look to is the worse case).

[farside22]

@LH: I have one last question:

- I said I think it's much more likely that farside22-scum is aiming for a mislynch than helping fellow scum.

What makes you come to this conclusion with my reminder to people to beware of a fake claim.

[farside22]

@IHSIB
spammer

@All
I claimed VT so speculation about me claiming Town PR is pointless and detracts from useful discussion. Scum score an easy lynch and Farside is probably the ring-leader. Her unvote is realisation that if I am quick-lynched she would be first in the firing line. We also have an attempt to hammer a nail in the coffin just before this:

Andrew is scum, farside is leaning that way.

Oh look who's following the crowd with no actual case again.

Case? You turned on me quickly D1 with little case yourself, you've riding the living crap out of my wagon all day so far, purely because I missed Battousi.
Your case is so good, even I'm convinced I'm scum(!) x)

Remaining scumteam is 2 of 3: Bella ("Okay, can we please get on with lynching AntB now?"), Andrew(Look at the case), Farside22 (slip and backtrack).

1) I rode Nacho all day yesterday your point?
2) I made a case on you based on your play and lack of scum hunting which is still happening. I also pointed out how you in your post town games, push and question and push more on those you find scummy which is sorely missing in this game
So far nothing you said has changed my view. Part of my case was also Batt's and your lack of comments in regards to the case and pushing a Bella lynched instead. Thanks as always proving that you are not reading the game.
Lets add OMGUS to more bad scum hunting to the list.
Also I would like there to be a replacement for SoS in place before the day ends. What's your hurry?

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

[farside22]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

You sounded certain that I was wrong with how I took your question. So it turns into an "I think".

[farside22]

Where are you?

Busy couple of days.

UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

You responded to this post several pages ago, what changed now? Do you usually move your vote around so much when there's a large bandwagon?

---

AntB's meta has been mentioned as part of the case against him, I've played a game with him before (Mini 1091) with him as VT where he didn't play that differently. What are the big pointers you're looking at?

You want to link the game in that you were in with him as an example?

[farside22]

AntB as town:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 19&start=0

AntB making cases, stating his belief's and having multiple suspects with reason's


http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 84&start=0

AntB with views on players. Fought against lynches he didn't believe in. Pressured about his vote and lynched day 1.

Compare this game to those. Feedback is welcomed.

[farside22]

What I was saying was that in this game he didn't seem to play that differently to now. It seems like he was pushing a lot on nacho in this game while ignoring or not getting involved with much else (similar to how he pushed a lot on moose at the start of Mini 1091) then once Nacho died and flipped town he struggled to re-enter the game (combined with what seems to be some difficulties in playing fully).

I'll read his ISO in those games a little later and provide comments.

First of all he was pushing Moose most of day 1, which he kept pounding into people over and over again.
His game here he voted for you, switched to andrew, then to nacho which was more an OMGUS vote then an actual case.
I notice in that game he talked more too. Hell that game he actual ISO'ed and pushed the case hard. The only similar thing I see is the blindness (which would account for his attack on Bella) but again he pushed and made a case on why he thought X was scum and pointed out various reason's why.
Second bahabahbhahhahahaha on my god I lost it seeing the scum team buddy up with him and he agreeing with him. That is just a priceless moment.
He at least later saw one scum team that day and voted him.

[farside22]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

You sounded certain that I was wrong with how I took your question. So it turns into an "I think".

- This sounds very, very off to me. Why would you take my reaction into account and let it alter your perception so radically, unless you knew that I am town? When you are uncertain about someone's alignment, only cold facts and reasoning should have this effect.
- Also, I suspect you are lying to me. "I think it's because..." clearly means that you never were positive about it.
- Finally, you said you "believed AntB to be scum". What's your position about AntB now?

I still believe him to be scum.
As for you there is nothing scummy I found from your post or the person you replaced. I've had you listed as town and frankly nothing you stated so far has changed my views.
Finally I take into account that I like to fight with those I believe to be scum. Fighting town on town helps scum hide so I back down these days when it's a player who I believe is town.
Do I feel paranoid I could be wrong about you?
It crossed my mind that question and I came to the conclusion I'm will to take a slap in the face for being wrong when every instinct tells me your town.

[farside22]

Then how did I go from Town to Scum?

Nacho post had me thinking and re-analysising the possible scum teams. You seemed to keep missing those post.

And you only just notice? You do all that meta-hunting, and despite me and nacho having a brief conversation about it earlier you bring it up as a fresh point.
VOTE: Farside22

Well aren't you the hypocritical scum man. First it's wrong to meta you and aparently your lack of case means nothing here. Then it's wrong for me to miss a meta that you OMGUS people? Seriously this is your best case.
You need to work on being scum better.

[farside22]

i believe farsides explanation of her having lord hur as a town read (alothough lord hur aint a town read to me) to be saying 'i think'/

atnb just pushing dirt on anyone he can

Do you believe lord hur is scum? What conclusion do you have of Bella or Archer?

[farside22]

- Letting out a scum slip : you said you didn't care about what's not directed at you, which makes for terrible, terrible scumhunting ;

Looker said something close to this prior.

• farside
  • Not everything is relevant to me; some things I leave for only the involved parties until it becomes relevant to me.

I don't recall if it's normal for him to believe it. Will look at the meta a bit later.
I need to look at the vote pattern you speak of.
Right now my mind is not here yet.

@Archer: You completely missed the point. He's attacking that meta is weak reasoning but complains about missing the OMGUS. You can't have both ways. It's weak, weak reasoning.

[farside22]

@Looker:
Why did you get involved in the discussion between Hur and myself but ignored the conversation with Batt? What was the difference and why?

Either way, I wasted a vote yesterday. If it's going to be sotS against AntB; I'd rather lynch sotS.

Why SotS over AntB?

Why was Lord Hur's comment about me worthy of a vote?

Wrong. I disliked how conveniently and with so much ease everyone jumped on your wagon despite your absence being nothing more than school life and the fact that no one brought that up.

ummm I mentioned that he looked busy many times over, but you still voted for him. What changed your views, especially as it was during today's lynch that you were voting him and calling him scum over AntB?

Are you really voting for Broken for not being here? Did you search to see if he was posting around MS?

[farside22]

So, exactly why has the AntB wagon stalled? There are enough people who aren't voting for him who agree that there's scumminess there. What's the problem? How can I help you lynch scum?

I'm waiting for a replacement. Every player slot should be filled before we go to night.

[farside22]

i believe farsides explanation of her having lord hur as a town read (alothough lord hur aint a town read to me) to be saying 'i think'/

atnb just pushing dirt on anyone he can

Do you believe lord hur is scum? What conclusion do you have of Bella or Archer?

yes i think lord hur is scummy.

archer i dunno

bella is slightly scummy due to the post about davidparker

Why do you think LH is scummy?

[farside22]

lh is scummy because of hes overcase on farside

Meh I see LH's play as paranoid more then scummy. That's my two cents.

@AntB - I'm human, I will miss things and I don't have time to reread the game over and over. That doesn't = scummy. That is basically your case on me right now.

[farside22]

That's an AtE resurrection, which (As I've stated before) is IMO just an attempt to stir up and lynch me. Why would any town post this, when she posted it? Why not just bring it up if/when I try to fakeout what I said earlier?

By the way I already answered this question. For someone bitching about things I missed in the game, you sure have missed.........how many now?

Mod: I will be on V/LA starting tonight and will not be back till sometime late Monday evening

[farside22]

Do you have any thoughts on his replacement request given that he hasn't requested replacement in all his games?

I see no issue with waiting on replacement since we are not at deadline. Discussion other scum suspects, debating issues and getting some answers from like looker for example is all good to me.
Is there a reason you are eager to see a lynch and not participant in looking for scum?
There is 3 scums in this game. We lynched 1 yesterday. That means 2 left.
Who is AntB's scum buddy in your view?

[farside22]

Look at antb's and jesse's bickering before you support an antb lynch. It's not scumbuddy interaction. If you think antb is scum, tell me why I'm wrong. This applies to everyone who suspects antb, not any one player.

He never voted for AntB and he had plenty of opportunity. In fact Jess never voted for anyone and voice suspicion on a few players in the game, including yourself and never voted.
Batt never voice any suspicion or commented about the start of the game or the case on AntB. He just attacked Nacho, Bella and myself at the start.

[farside22]

I'm still thinking about your question today Egg. I'm still thinking Jesse's action still doesn't make AntB less likely scum.
I've seen scum attack each other and then back off at the start of the day.
Plus I still can't get over Batt's and AntB totally ignoring each other.

[farside22]

@Egg: What about Batt's responses when he entered?
and yes I'm being a bit stubborn on that issue. It's hard not to be when you see a player not living up to making an actual case that has merit.
But since we are on the subject of Jesse, did you see when I asked him about Andrew doing the same thing and he ignored the question (or I think he didn't come back into the game, can't remember which right now)? Does that mean he may be ignoring a scum buddy?

[farside22]

Yay, Egg declared that I am scum once more, it must be true If you weren't a big part in the scum lynch yesterday I would be all over you, but there is no point arguing with you since you are pretty much 99.999% confirmed town and I am still not sure why you actually think I'm scum. Especially after your whole post focuses on other people. Unless you're still on the bussing claim which is just plain wrong. Go look back, it was still 50/50 between nacho/batt and I chose the one who looked least scummy to me (haven't I said this before??). Pretty sure it could've gone either way at that stage.

vote: Archer

I notice your defense with people who accuses you is either defensive or omgusish

archer defensive
archer explaining while calling the case reaching
defensive and looks omgusish

Now this guy also complains about those who made cases against him, but lets looks at his cases/votes:

The last post from AntB has got bells ringing for me! Sounds like he is afraid to die, but as a townie, I dont care if I die as long as I have made my suspicions clear and the remaining townies can carry on... I actually think coupled with the rest thats reason enough for my vote

VOTE: AntB

I'm back, deadline met. I'm not so sure anymore of nacho, just doesnt feel right. But egg, with loads of empty promises and a single "useful" post that is essentially a spray and pray effort does not sit right with me. I've got my eye on bella for essentially doing the same but I think it may be due to having to replace into a game.

VOTE: Egg

lurker vote away!!!!!!

My reread has not gleened anything new. I still have a stronger feeling that nacho is town than Batt so thats where my vote is going unless we get an extension.

Today no vote thus far.
This is the same person complaining early in the game about gut/feeling votes others cast on him that didn't have other reason's. He certainly never explained his feeling on why Nacho seemed town (as I know I didn't see anything till Nacho starting laying out his thoughts on players in the game.

So I'll ask

Archer

: What post or comment did Nacho make that gave you that "town feel"

[farside22]

@Archer: Reading is comprehending: I'm saying your vote on Egg and comment about Bella was lurker voting not scum hunting.
Also you post reeks of AtE

[farside22]

I notice your defense with people who accuses you is either defensive or omgusish

Just had to come back to this first. My defenses are defensive? Whoa! What a revelation. Do you usually build such weak cases? Perhaps you could elaborate on why defending yourself defensively is scummy? Should be a good read.

Onto the rest, way back when the case against Egg was valid. Scummy entrance + nothing useful = useless townie or scum. Up until he became confirmed JK just about everyone had similar thoughts. Why did you omit this part in your "Check Archers crap reasoning" section? Searching for the posts that suit your agenda again by any chance?

1) There is defensive, then there is sarcastic and bitching. You undermind a case then get sarcastic and bitchy. It's defense with no real defense.
2) I quoted where you voted. You didn't really leave much else to go on but entrance+nothing useful. There are other players that offered nothing useful but all your focus is on one player with a side comment about Bella. That's not scum hunting (once again) that's lurker lynching. Also at one point in the game is hypocritical, not sure about that time, but most of day 1 I would say you were quite useless. Today your vote is where again? Your reason's for scum are what again? Oh right mostly omgus reasons against those who made a case on you.
Carry on.

[farside22]

Today your vote is where again?

So you would have preferred if I hammered AntB like a week ago then? I had the opportunity. Could easily have done it. You seem to be missing a heck of a lot with all your skimming for posts that make your case.

There is more then one scum left in the game. If AntB is scum in your view who is his scum partner would you think and why?

[farside22]

farside, may i see the question you say i ignored

I don't see anything. Did I say you did? I looked back the last two pages and I don't see asking you.

[farside22]

@Egg: What about Batt's responses when he entered?
and yes I'm being a bit stubborn on that issue. It's hard not to be when you see a player not living up to making an actual case that has merit.
But since we are on the subject of Jesse, did you see when I asked him about Andrew doing the same thing and he ignored the question (or I think he didn't come back into the game, can't remember which right now)? Does that mean he may be ignoring a scum buddy?

That was in regards to Jesse. I asked Jesse about what you said at the start of day one and he didn't respond or he left the game after. (can't remember which).

[farside22]

@Brokenscraps: Where are you in this game? Who are you top scum suspects? You seemed to have almost disappeared since day 1.

[farside22]

Well, I didn't miss much...

I don't like farside22's attack on Archer : it's quite weak (I agree he's not enough on the offense, but that's still better than some others), and he has been playing like this for a while, so why bring it up now?

Oh, and thanks a lot for replacing, Magua.

LH: Did you not read his other game? He actually knows how to make cases and have POV's. That' also part of my issue with him. None of that has changed. He doesn't have any other scum suspect and most of his attacks during day 1 were on lurkers.
He thought Nacho was scummy day 1, but changes his mind declaring him more town the Batt with really no reason.

Mod: I'm voting Archer

[farside22]

LH: Did you not read his other game? He actually knows how to make cases and have POV's.

This game? http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=14672

He was endgamed by the mafia without casting a single vote (post RVS). How do you call this having point of views?

Plus, I still don't believe a goon, on his first play as such, would bus D1 a much better and experienced player.

He talked about in the game you linked his thoughts on who he believed town, had a scum suspect and actually scum hunted in the game. Do you really see him acting that way here?

I have a feeling Archer may have played elsewhere. There is more then just MS where people play mafia. How about we ask.

@Archer: Have you ever played mafia (RL or online) before finding your way to MS?

[farside22]

Now back to farside - post 682 and your reply 684. How did you come to the conclusion of me saying Egg is 99.999% confirmed town is an OMGUS post? Also please explain your reasons for voting me, as I understand it you have the alleged bussing of Batt (when we all know it was 50/50 at that stage), meta based on a single game (cause people never change their style right?) and alleged OMGUS/defensiveness (both of which are not inherantly scummy things to do). 684 you also, once again, ask what gave me a more town feel on nacho. By that point I had answered that specific question at least three times. Why ask again? If I say it a fourth time will it finally sink in?
Post 689 - I feel I defended myself with valid points, but you choose not to address them at all and instead label my as bitchy. Why? Your next post (693) changes the subject nicely as well, so I'll ask again, would you have preferred I hammer AntB when I had the chance?

1) your response to Egg came off snarky, with an almost I would vote you or call you scum if I could. It's very mild but I felt it reading the post.
2) You haven't made a decent case of any day 1. Your not scum hunting, your following others. Finally knowing you played before means that your lack of read and not being able to see anything scum in anyone but lurkers is a big red flag of scum.
I never mentioned bussing. But you said yourself you just had a "feeling" nacho was town, but got pissy with anyone else who used the word gut or feeling.
3) You want to point out those 3 or 4 times you that you felt Nacho was town? I asked for what you saw that gave you that feeling. You had nothing but gut as a response
4) No you haven't defended yourself well. You get pissy when I mention meta saying it's one game, but doesn't explain why you can't make a case here. Why you can't name more then one scum or why all of day 1 all you focused on was lurkers.
I didn't ask for a hammer. I asked who you were voting for? When you stated your question about the hammer, I asked about who else is scum. You still have no one else you find scummy.

[farside22]

That little nugget that magua found has a valid point. I had missed that comment by Batts. It makes me want to go back and reread Batts again.

[farside22]

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum

260- Smashbro "getting on the wagon" without voting = probable town if nacho is town, scum if nacho is scum

298- Farside gives her scum meta ("I try to avoid scum bussing D1") = null leaning scum

Vote: Nacho as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town.

Alright point by point. Scum Batt knows Nacho will flip town so the first point mean DP is town
The smash comment, that Magua pointed out, again since Batt's knows Nacho is town this looks to be giving a scum buddy town points

The other 2 have nothing to do with the flip.
Reading further I am pretty certain (not as sure with bella) that everyone he called probable scum is town.
He stated he would vote for bella.

Requesting replacement is null. Requesting replacement because you are hurting town, scummy. Maybe not a D2/D3 vote, but it's good enough for a D1 vote.

This statement makes me feel that bella maybe scum with Batt. He would vote for her today (day 1) based on week reason's but not day 2 or 3, which makes no sense.
I could see this as scum bussing.
I wonder if he would push for her lynch if scum buddy.
Batt stated he would have to read AntB to decide whether to vote for him or not.
He declared LH was town and Andrew was scum (again weak reasoning).
I find LH's push town too so I don't see anything wrong with Batt's comments there.
Andrew pushed at Batt too

This leaves:

Smash/ConSpiracy
Archer
Looker
AntB
Bella

Pretty sure 2 out of 5 people on the list will be the last 2 scum in the game.
Bella I put at the bottom because I'm still wondering if Batt's scum would push a lynch on a scum buddy or not.

[farside22]

I'll get to you points when I get home tonight Archer.

[farside22]

1. Although saying Nacho was certainly scum and would be lynched, she shifted her attention from him to Andrew.
2. Farside bussed Battousai at start, then defended him, then got him as her third suspect (which is a scumtell), then tried to get through an AntB lynch instead of a Battousai lynch. This all if heavily implying a farside-battousai scumteam.
3. She gave us some big scumtells day 2, such as wanting to know Egg's frame of mind and posting AntB couldn't fake-claim before he claimed.

1. I do spread my votes when I find more then one person scummy.
I don't hold a vote entirely on one player throughout the day if I'm unsure of others.
I learned voting a player gets more attention and response then just asking questions.
2. Can't bus, since I'm not scum. Yes I know how it looks. I saw it myself, but seriously if you want to research my games, if I see a scum buddy in trouble I would keep my vote on them and not be back and forth. (IE: I'm not stupid scum)
3. Egg has been a bit quiet. A part of me wanted to almost tell him not to use JK as a doc protect and use it more to find scum and stop the kill. I wasn't sure what Egg's purpose was.
I already explain at least 4 times why I pointed out Ant's comment. I disagree and will continue to disagree that outing a doctor is a pro-town thing.

1) Not almost call Egg scum, I would call him scum if it was not for the JK claim in that post that is being referred to because when weak reasons are brought forward I see that as scummy. How does "I would be all over you (Egg)" only give you a mild indication of this?

This is why I call it OMGUSish.

2) I honestly cant believe you are still pushing the whole meta based on one single game thing. I really have nothing more to say on this. If you cant fathom how basing a players entire playstyle on one single game is faulty then there is no point arguing. Plus, you dont even know how I played in that one single game that I played before coming to this forum, and yet you are making conclusions based on it? Please tell me exactly how with one game here, and one somewhere else that you have no clue of, you come to my current playstyle as being a scum read? Manufacture away!

If you can scum hunt in one game. You can't say you can't do it another game. It's BS excuses

3) why are you asking this again when I have given the answer at least 3 times?

Again your not saying why you found Nacho town over Batt in any statement you made. I wanted an answer to why. You don't have an answer.

4) All of day one I focused on lurkers? Have you forgotten that I went after nacho too? You yourself said this in post 708, a mere 10 posts ago. Contradiction! You also forget posts like 541 where I do name other suspects. Fits in with my view of you in which you manufacture/selective read stuff to get people to look scummy. You have also still not answered me - would you have preffered I hammer AntB? I know you didnt ask for the hammer, I'm asking if you would have preferred

First I didn't say you should hammer AntB. Stop putting words in my mouth. I asked you where your vote was.
As for the lurkers? Your right there was Nacho, I forgot, it's not a contradiction. You made your case, you never voted for him and instead cast a vote on a weak read here instead Why?
Also I am talking about your day 1 player. I have stated many times over it was your day 1 play and lack of scum hunting.
As for post 541 Your reason's are (a) what everyone else said about AntB and (b) hypocritical.

[farside22]

I think it's safe now to say that the answer is yes. And why would this happen? A claimed VT has less value to town than an unclaimed town, so if she were town, she'd push even more. While on the contrary, mislynching an unclaimed town, or getting another claim, is so much more tempting...

I was waiting for looker to respond to my questions. I missed that he replaced out.
And yes I do still think AntB is scum. I'm sure my last post where I point out Batt's interactions was missed, since no one said I missed Broken (which I realized after I left).

unvote:
vote: AntB

[farside22]

@Farside:

Opinion on Conspiracy please.

Based on SoTS's play and Batt's comment I would say likely scum. Conspiracy only made one case, but hasn't stated anything on anyone else. I would say in terms of the case, it's a well thought out case. I could have made the case on myself (as even I saw things in my play I would call scummy).
I would like to also note I don't care for SoT's signing in for other games, but stating he is too busy to play in this one. It sets me on edge as he did it more under pressure, which again looks scummy.

[farside22]

1. I can get into that, only the situation is bad:
a) Nacho had 4 votes, all of the others had just 1 vote. Deadline was near, so a Nacho lynch was very likely to happen.
b) You were more than certain that Nacho were scum, while you voted for andrew just for lack of content purposes. There is a difference between those.
c) Though minor, I still think this applies. You were called out for tunneling a few days before and you suddenly changed your vote. You have said a few times you found others suspicious before, but not voted for them.
2. Meh, this will just get very WIFOMish. It really looks like you are bussing.
3. That is not even close to what you said to him. You could also say that without knowing his target night 1.
4. AntB's fake-claim bust got WIFOMish, too. Every body may either agree or disagree with it, more discussion is not able this.

1. I already said why I thought Batt's comment came off more town. I don't recall ever see scum pushing people to lynch even if it is themselves to be lynched. He tricked me good, kodos.
b) I would have to look, back, but I'm pretty sure during that time Nacho was on V/LA or MIA. Either way I decided to ask others I found suspicious questions, again I use my vote to make is clear I'm suspicious of them.
c) I have one vote. I will also keep it on the person I believe to be the most scum. When I switched it back to Nacho, he was still my top scum suspect. When I switched it to Batt's I didn't care for his entrance or comments and voted for him because I would expect Batt's to have more then calling the leading lynch scum and no points on anyone else. That's hella scummy.
2) It's not WIFOM to me. You had it on your points I responded on why your wrong.
3) I try my best if I think someone seems to be newbish, not to treat them like they don't know how to play the game. It's insulting to a person's intelligence to tell them what to do. Seriously
4) Again you made it a point on why you think I'm scum. I'm answering and responding why it's not the correct point.

Onto the list.

I notice he that you call both AntB and Archer VIish speaking with their emotions. Can you explain why that makes them town, when AntB hasn't presented a case worth a crap. And most of day one Archer leaned on mostly Egg with a chance of Bella. I'm almost certain Archer is scum as well.

@Magua/LH - His list looks almost identical to your reads. A part of me felt like he was copying you and your reads. If I get lynched I want you both to remember his comments here and see who he attacks tomorrow. I'm not sold on him personally. I've seen scum attack players like myself who played a horrible town game to win town points. Nothing should clear what SoTS was acting.

@farside
He was asking IF you would have preferred him to hammer, NOT that you told him too, way to dodge...

Never told him to hammer. Didn't say he should. Still putting words in my mouth.

[farside22]

@Magua
Not my worst town game, but horrible compared to my past game. I see a sliding rope and I think fuck I really do have garbage of the mouth this game. I'm predicting my lynch today based on Archer's so called attacks, AntB and will throw in the soon to be replacement. Don't know about Bella. I also predict (because I love ruining scum's game and feel a need to point it out) when I flip town, watch how fast Consp flips to AntB saying something about me being town so AntB must be scum.
I'm so certain of this crystal ball insight. I'm declaring AntB town on the bases that Consp is scum with Archer has his scum buddy.

unvote:
vote: Archer

[farside22]

@Egg : Also, who are you the alt of?

I wish I didn't know. I was disappointed.

How did you learn Egg's identity?

As a list mod I have to check players I don't know to make sure there not inning as someone already in the game. I have that power.

@Consp:


1) Seriously I'm not allowed to vote for someone else in the game? Is that really what your bitching is about? I decide when I do a vote. It happened I explained why I voted when. If other people are talking and I want to get reads on people I find scummy I will vote on them. I will vote as many times as I damn will please, because that's what I'm allowed and can only do.

2) This game I called both my scum partners scum and voted them day 1
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 76&start=0
I had to leave the game do to RL issues. The other one I recall Xtoxm was my scum partner. I can't remember the name of the game, but I remember that one the most because I pushed Xtoxm so hard people called me town, good times, good times.

3) I phrased my question so as to not to insult Egg's intelligence. Think what you want.

4) In regards to the outing of the Doctor. I had the discussion with LH. I disagree and would do my action over and over again. You call it scummy that is not a discussion that is an accusation.

[farside22]

As a list mod I have to check players I don't know to make sure there not inning as someone already in the game. I have that power.

Ok, I was wondering since Egg didn't post anywhere else than in this game. So you learned about it as you were doing your mod's job for this game...

And good job, now I'm indeed wondering if those scumtells are not too numerous to be true... And I can't see any motivation for farside22-scum to vote a scum mate and immediately unvote him for a flimsy reason. Unless maybe you attacked him to look town, expecting him to defend himself well as usual so you could unvote. But yes, even then you'd have kept the vote longer on him...

It's really WIFOM to most people, but in my view if I was scum and saw my scum buddy in trouble I would have voted for him and kept it there. The rest of what I would do is my secrete as I'm not going to give out all my scum tells in a game.

[farside22]

LH: There is no point in that discussion.

Seeing my lynch will go through, please remember what I said as follows:

Watch: Consp, once I flip town he will attack mostly AntB since I cleared town. He also had a list that was identical to Magua.
Archer is not a newb. Get it throw LH's think head and maybe town might have a change.
Also don't forget about Looker, he may have been busy but he still hasn't done anything about those questions I asked earlier.
Finally if Consp is scum that makes AntB autotown with my theory.

[farside22]

@Farside:

You say: "Watch: Consp, once I flip town he will attack mostly AntB since I cleared town. He also had a list that was identical to Magua."

I think AntB is town. Conspiracy similarly has him down as town. Why do you think Conspiracy would attack AntB?

Is your townread on AntB based solely on Conspiracy attacking you, or is there something that I missed? It seems a large jump to go from reminding people about AntB's self-hammer policy to declaring him town and I'm not seeing the link in between.

In his write up of AntB he called him VIish along with talking about his emotions. He thinks he's more town based on me scum. I can see tomorrow him saying, well farside flipped town so maybe she was right (again this is my thoughts on his comments and I would call it foreshawdowing for tomorrow).
No my townread on AntB is solely based on the comment that Conspiracy made about AntB saying me as scum attacking AntB is neutral town. He didn't say the same thing about Archer, which is why I believe them to be scum together.

Also and point of order to Consp who quoted my post. He missed my soft claim (which I did on purpose) which tells me since he received his PM just recently. He doesn't recognize a town PM.

1) Seriously I'm not allowed to vote for someone else in the game? Is that really what your bitching is about? I decide when I do a vote. It happened I explained why I voted when. If other people are talking and I want to get reads on people I find scummy I will vote on them. I will vote as many times as I damn will please,

because that's what I'm allowed and can only do

.

unvote:
vote: Conspiracy.

[farside22]

Well, it seems farside22 forgot that the VT PM was posted by the mod at the start of the game (and it didn't hit me either, until now).

Open 272: Near-Vanilla

You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no abilities or actions. Please confirm in thread.

It doesn't look to me at all like what farside22 soft-claimed, as it doesn't mention that voting is the only thing VT can do. I doesn't mention vote at all, actually.

All VT's have is a vote. That's the point. It' has nothing to do with the PM, it's what most VT's know once they get their role PM.
I have a vote. If I was scum I would be soft claiming doc and outing the doctor.
Seriously LH catch up, we miss you.

[farside22]

You remember the game you gave me as scum? You bussed a bit on others which is the same thing as you are doing with Archer. Is it strange Archer doesn't come off as town to me when I think you are scum?

So how is it that you think I as scum would be bussing Archer, but not AntB. Whyif I was scum and I do buss would I not vote for Batt's at the end of the day instead of AntB?

[farside22]

All VT's have is a vote. That's the point. It' has nothing to do with the PM, it's what most VT's know once they get their role PM.
I have a vote. If I was scum I would be soft claiming doc and outing the doctor.
Seriously LH catch up, we miss you.

This is a weak test anyway (recognizing a reference to your role PM seems a very weak tell), and your version is weaker (only vanilla townies/town will recognize a reference to a way VTs are described in some but not this PM?). I'm honestly surprised that you're using something like this to push a counter-wagon, it does not look good.

actually about the jk thing, we only need to ask egg:

did you aim your jk as a protect or as a roleblock

Why would you wanna know this?!

Name your scum suspects and why in your next post.
I get the impression reading this all you did was read this page and nothing more.

[farside22]

because if egg is aiming his jailkeep to protect, that post which someone said that the particular person has a 50% less chance of being mafia is false.

The motive for jailing is indifferent concerning its mechanism. There's no "jail to protect mode" vs "jail to prevent a kill mode", there's just jail. If there was 1 scum left, if someone is jailed and someone else is NKed, the jailed person is guaranteed town. Ok so far? Now, if there are 2 scums left, the kill can be done by either, so if the JK targets one of the scums, there is a 50% chance of having no NK. So, if there IS a NK, the JK probably didn't target scum : in other words, the jailed person is 50% less likely to be scum than the others.

I have to reread Egg but I'm sure after the JK was outed any mafia scum player worth their salt would have looked to see if Egg suspected them and if so had the other mafia team player to the kill. There is no way I believe the 50% chance.
Seriously haven't you ever been scum?

You vote him for not recognizing the town PM, and now you say I'm stupid for saying yours doesn't even look like it? How can you attack someone for not comparing your soft claim with the town PM, when it doesn't look at all like said PM?

I never called you stupid. Sorry if that is how you interrupted my post. I was saying your jumping to conclusions when my post is about what town knows. A player that just got a role PM knows what's about. I'm not saying people who are VT's but if Consp got a VT role PM he knows what he is good for in this game.
(puts egg debate on hold for now)
If I gave up completely I wouldn't have set a trap for someone I believe to be scum. Besides that I have a theory and if correct I'm smacking the mod later.

[farside22]

FTR, I don't think Farsidescum gets any more advantage knowing who I am than Farsidetown. The only reason to really know is to make sure people aren't joining games under multiple accounts, but I think the honor system basically covers that in non-newb games.

I'm just going to say I've had to check and it happens where some people do sign up that are not non-newbie games. Remember open games I get new players I never heard of join and check them to make sure it's not someone who shouldn't be on MS either.

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post: Archer I put you on ignore because your repeating yourself and still making the same excuses for how you can post a case in one game but not in another. I don't believe you and all your comments is I changed my way and meta is stupid (in a nutshell).
If there is something important that is not about the above ^ that you feel I need to answer please repeat the question, because frankly the whole I changed that's why I'm not able to made a case is complete and utter bull shit.

[farside22]

I have to reread Egg but I'm sure after the JK was outed any mafia scum player worth their salt would have looked to see if Egg suspected them and if so had the other mafia team player to the kill. There is no way I believe the 50% chance.
Seriously haven't you ever been scum?

This is WIFOM in its purest form and I'd hope Egg is smart enough to spot it and act accordingly, so I think my statistics hold. I have been scum 3 times, IIRC.

How is this WIFOM? Are you saying as scum when a PR has been outed you never looked to see who they accused to work out night kills among each other?

Oh hell no way is Consp backing off that easy. I know you slipped and I'm not about to give you room to wiggle. You said AntB was town based on me scum, but said nothing about Archer who had the same thing going on with him. Then you come up with a lame ass attempt to say I'm bussing Archer after pointing out my lack of vote on Batt's day 1.
No way Jose.

@Archer: I recall without looking (No,I'm not going back and reading right now) that you also are bitching repeatedly about asking you a question about Nacho and your town read. When someone gets pissy about others who use gut to explain things and then decides to use it based on nothing inbetween, I'm going to call that pretty darn scummy.

[farside22]

How is this WIFOM? Are you saying as scum when a PR has been outed you never looked to see who they accused to work out night kills among each other?

Yes, but the PR knows he's been outed, so he can alter his behavior based on this knowledge. And then scum can target the PR's target because he thinks the PR thinks he will change targets. Etc. This is WIFOM.
When I'm in this situation, I randomize my target in a selection of players, so my action cannot be predicted as much.

How is it 50% chance that the person that Egg JK is town then?

[farside22]

Are these reads 2 way at all? IE if I flip town, person X is obviscum?

*pretending as if farside isn't already obvious scum*
If AntB flips town, farside will not become obvious scum.

As I said and proof above I was correct. Once I flip town you were going to attack AntB.

This is not true. I can prove you aren't a doc and you know it. You made it unable for yourself to fake-claim doc.

Seriously can I please be a double voter in this game mod!!
So as scum you see that I would stop a someone I think is scum from fake claiming. Your seriously saying as scum I wouldn't wait to have AntB claim his VT role instead when I pointed out something before hand?

Yeah, well no. You are pretending that you were attacking AntB as much as Archer which is definitely not true. I only thought you mentioned Archer in just a vote and just a few posts, just as you did with Battousai and with SP and bv310 and DGB in the scumlink you gave us. My bad that you had a go on him for like 10 posts in a row.
On top of that, you know that you can't make anything out of this.

If you actually read the game instead of just the iso, you would have noted that I voted for my scum buddies when they were under pressure in that game, but when the town decided to switch votes to someone else I was more then happy to help them lynch that person. IE: I'm not going to keep a vote on my scum buddy as scum if the town wants to lynch someone else. But as you only looked at the iso you missed that part.
Also I have attacked both AntB and Archer today.

I already figure I will be lynched. But I'm making damn sure tomorrow when your around and my flip happens as town your are put in a corner you can't get out of.

[farside22]

Finally, how did you go from labelling me as scum to "almost certain?" Heck, in post 721 you even have me higher on the list than AntB, so why are you voting for AntB and not me?

Your obviously not reading the game. At this point I have you and conspircy as a scum team.

Since you can't see it yourself, I will show you:

Why farside can't be the doc
She said this to AntB

So as scum you see that I would stop a someone I think is scum from fake claiming. Your seriously saying as scum I wouldn't wait to have AntB claim his VT role instead when I pointed out something before hand?

IE: I already pointed out what you were going to quote but nice dodge of my question though.

That is fine with me, you will flip scum anyway.

It's the bitch in me that enjoys seeing people get their comeuppance.

[farside22]

• UNVOTE: VOTE: Egg

unvote:
vote: looker

I would seriously do this if I didn't feel with every fiber that Consp was scum with archer right now. But seriously your 3rd scum suspect on my list.

unvote:
vote: Consp

@Consp if you truely believe I'm scum then who is my scum partner in your view and why?

[farside22]

This is quite OMGUSish, and the reasoning for suspecting Smashbro's replacement doesn't work.

Really? How is it when someone asked me my views on SoTS (who I had on a scum list prior to this question) OMGUSish?

I should not have have 4 scum reads in this game people. If your FUCKING TOWN START ACTING LIKE IT!
Please dear God.....*prays for a hammer*
I promised after I hammer as town the last night and was modkilled for doing it, I would not do it again. But people's play in this game is horrendous.

Consp- can't get a case right. See's meta, does an iso and accuses me of scum bussing but I didn't bus Batt's so I'm so.
Archer- failing scum
Looker - voting for Egg (who claimed JK)
Bella - BW voting with weak case


The top 2 I see scum together. The other 2 need to be seriously looked into, but don't let Consp flail around. He slipped just read his post about separating AntB and Archer claiming one town based on my attack but not saying the same about the other. Then claims I'm bussing Archer, then backtracks. Seriously he's scum. I made sure he can't fall back and now call AntB scum when I flip town. He's screwed if I"m correct about him being scum.

[farside22]

Scum slip 3.0......Consp didn't take the what you should never, ever do as scum class.
For those not reading the game.

For both is a reason. To be honest, I really couldn't bring to make a list all by myself because I made the farsidecase yesterday. I agreed with Magua's list about most players and that is why I used that list as the basis of my list. That is also why I forgot Magua, because he isn't on his own list. Anyways:

Lets number the things that is wrong with this post
1) Doesn't have an opinion on his own about others
2) Follows another player post, using another players tell to as his own.
3)

Magua

Replacing DP. DP's case on Egg was a good case and defenitely deserved townpoints. This mention of Battousai:

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

Almost makes him confirmed town. A Nacho lynch was very likely to happen if Battousai himself didn't screw up. Why saying David is scum if Nacho is town while knowing Nacho would be lynched and would flip town? Because he would be a great second mislynch to put forward.
At last I played a game with DavidParker and he played exactly the same in that game. He was town in that game, so yeah...

obvious town

His obvious town analysis was made by me already.

All 3 points are essentially the same thing. Following, following, buddying, following, following, budding.

Farside you ignored the last lifeline I threw at you. So I see no reason to switch my vote.

Looker, WTF is up with your vote???

Reallly? This question here:

One new question, pretend that I'm town (since you obv think I'm not) and that I get lynched today. What suspects would you then have?

My response is still the same. YOUR NOT READING THE GAME I DECLARE YOU SCUM WITH CONSP. YOUR LINK HAS YOU NUMBER 2 BECAUSE OF THAT.

You can keep repeating questions all you want. The answer doesn't change because you don't read it.

[farside22]

1. Both of you are town/you are town, AntB is scum
- You want to warn others of AntB's claim. He couldn't fake-claim doc. <- useless, because if he fake-claimed doc, he would have been busted with a counterclaim
2. You are scum, AntB is town
- You knew he wouldn't fake-claim so this post wouldn't do any harm. In the small chance that he is the doc, you can lynch a confirmed townie.
3. Both of you are scum (unlikely)
- You wanted to warn him if he prepared a fake-claim.

See you never said this in your post about AntB. You declared him town. And again your missing a question I asked. Why if I was scum would I not let it pass that AntB already did a claim or point it out to others, giving myself no wiggle room later to fake claim for myself?
Also I asked another question you ignored. Who do you think is my scum partner and why?

[farside22]

@Archer: Are you male or female? Serious question, please answer.

[farside22]

Why would I do this obvious buddying/following if I were scum?

RED ALERT
RED ALERT
Using someone else excuse. Awesome scum stuff here.
Did you see it as obvious? Why would you do something that was following as town? What's wrong with writing you own POE? I don't see everyone have the same exact read you did because so far, 2 people think Archer is scum, 1 person thinks Andrew is scum, 3 people think your scum. I know bella is now on my scum list.
how many people have looker on their scum list right now?
It's not the same that's BS logic right there.

By the way that link is your initial post has 2 scum suspects but in no way explain a connection to me.

[farside22]

What do you think of the possibility I truely think that way? Have you even considered that? There is nothing wrong with writing my own list (What does POE stand for?), but as I said I couldn't bring up taking more than two hours of work to make two more lists. And I think you misinterpreted the rethorical question I posted:

You stated it was obviously following and buddying.
POE should have been POV sorry.
Hey I have a job too, but I did my own research and POV's during the course of the game. (IE: suck it up if that is the best excuse you got)
By the way I got the sarcasm but it also looks like your trying to downplay a serious scum tell.

I meant: Do I have to make entirely original reads on every body if I have the same reads on most players as someone else? (in this case Magua)

How do I know this is your read on players if you used someone's else's write up?


@Archer: Really I answered your questions. You just don't like my anwser. weeeeee

So since Archer doesn't want to play ball question to Consp. Is there a reason you called Archer she? I'm just wondering because I notice that MS is mostly male oriented environment and Archer didn't correct you either.

[farside22]

Just because andrew didn't give us any clue about which lynch he supported.

He just got a major link with farside (and me, but I will flip town)
He hasn't mentioned even one of us being scummy and actually doesn't do anything.

And I liked playing this game. I learned a lot and it is the first game I really thought I was playing mafia on a high level. I loved the arguments with Farside and the convo's with Lord Hur. Good game town!

I think my biggest problem is your scum reads. You had 3 only. That's rare for me. I usually feel everyone is scum till I get a good town read on them. (yes I get paranoid and yes it's guilty till innocent and yes even I get tunnel).
How do you see yourself normally as town vs scum?
Why did you not push on Looker or ......sorry I forget who your other scum suspect was and I have to go shortly, but why not point to them and put your case out just as hard?
Also why just hey this is fun post? Do you ever look for connection between players in games?

[farside22]

Consp: Batt's is dead. Are you saying I am the only person you found a connection with on him?
The question you didn't understand was to see if you could evaluate your own play as town in games and how you act as scum.

[farside22]

I think people like Brokenscraps (lurking scum) and Looker (player not posting much yesterday) need to be looked into.

@Andrew: Who else do you believe is scum beside AntB and why?

[farside22]

Actually looking at Bella's end of day vote count I'm going to do this now.

vote: Brokenscraps

And get back to a full read on a few people later.

[farside22]

@AntB and andrew: Please for the love of God if you are actually town, reread the game and come up with who is scum besides each other.

[farside22]

That doesn't answer the question. Why do you believe Looker-scum would vote for Egg?

I hate this question. There is no town reason for Looker. Scum reason is to not take a stand on the argument or because he forgot about the game and voted for anyone other then take a stand.

[farside22]

Saying there's no town reason is somewhat exaggerated.

Then explain a town reason to vote for a claimed JK on day 2.

[farside22]

I did.

That doesn't explain anything. If your behind say hey I'm behind and will try and get a read. Not hey let me vote for the player that is the claimed PR.

[farside22]

in that case looker, why on earth do you vote.

i also say we lynch from antb/ farside


= antb

so we dont out more roles

fos: andrew

I see this as trying to create mislynch, which helps the mafia. (At least I know voting for me is a mislynch).

[farside22]

My vote ain't moving, andrew is classic flying-under-the-radar, non-contributing, avoid-posting-anything scum. He refuses to post more because it will out PRs ¬_¬ all his case has ever been on me is "die scum die".

He did vote and push a case on Batts. What is you view on how he handled that? Scum bussing?

[farside22]

@andrew: yes

@antb: *smack head 3 times*

[farside22]

@Archer:

Looking at the vote count from the last two days here:

Battousai (7) - Nachomamma8, Bella, lord_hur, Archer, Egg, andrew94, farside22
Nachomamma8 (3) - brokenscraps, AntB, Battousai
Bella (2) - smashbro_of_the_SSS, DavidParker
smashbro_of_the_SSS (1) - Looker

Official Day 2 Vote Tally

11 players remain; 6 votes needed for a lynch.

ConSpiracy (6) - brokenscraps, Magua, farside22, lord_hur, Egg, AntB
farside22 (3) - ConSpiracy, Archer, Bella
AntB (1) - andrew94
Egg (1) - Looker

Broken kept his vote on Nacho and stayed away from the topic of Batts and disappeared. As for the Conspir vote he is stated he found my actions scummy, but votes for Conspircy. This is not town action.

@Looker: Why would you fear a NK when people suspect you?

[farside22]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Looker please.

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: Looker

[farside22]

farside, what do you think of antb now...

I still don't see him making any cases, which bothers me. He continues to vote for you, which surprisingly enough I have a town read based on your interaction with Batt's. I don't see it as scum bussing.

[farside22]

I didn't say that.

What, exactly, do you think is going to happen between now and then? brokenscraps will get replaced, that's about the only thing that I can think of.

I see Looker's #900. I'm also ignoring it for the time being.

Well, I think you're going to respond to Looker's post, for one.

Why should I bother? Two of my townreads are attacking eachother. Another of my townreads -- that's you -- is active lurking so hard it hurts. Looker's the leading wagon, so I'll just wait until "omg its one day to deadline everyone suddenly actually play" because that seems to be the prevalent strategy here.

Can you tell me why you have a town read on AntB. I get Egg's point and it's the only reason I'm not perusing this today more then anything.
What about Archer?

[farside22]

sao magnua has 3 townreads?

anyway, antb then magnua

What's wrong with having 3 town reads at this point?
Do you even have a town read on anyone besides the claimed JK?

[farside22]

I can't believe my eyes.

Andrew has done nothing but coast all the way through, offered next to no opinions on ANYONE except "die scum die" aimed at me once or twice...

I'll go down happily at this rate but when andrew wins as scum I will be loling all the way through the post-game.

Pot this is kettle. I have something to tell you that may come as a shock.

[farside22]

Hey I want to go back and reread the past 3 pages. I will have more response on a few things hopefully tonight.
Looker did you ever answer my question about why you were concerned about being NK?

[farside22]

@Looker: Please explain why or what reason you find Archer, Broken and Bella scummy.
Also I know many players who use gut reads and things they see in the game that they read as town, why are you questioning town reads from Magua and not others like Egg who made such statements?

Asking me who I found scummy yesterday has no bearing on my interests today, especially when you mislynched one of the players in question.

I really don't like this. You didn't respond to the game yesterday it looks scummy when you have no opinion. For example do you think I'm scum based on what was said? Since Consp flipped town and I know I'm town who was scum on the wagon if there was one and why?

"Another of my townreads -- that's you -- is active lurking so hard it hurts."

* Admirable. Borders on buddying but nothing less than expected.

Wait don't you have a scum read on Bella? This is very inconsistent from just a page ago.

Also your reply to my question is not satisfactory. You said you were concerned. You have played enough mafia that if you were town you would have an idea that if you are suspicious to the town the mafia tend to keep you alive. If your scum you have no concern.

[farside22]

• Magua
  • Yes. You sound surprised.
  • At the moment, either Bella, brokenscraps, or Archer. I also find it noteworthy you wrote off my "possible" (personal?) opinion the moment I voted Egg.
• andrew94
  • Yes.

Okay I missed the OR in your list but this means you find one of the 3 scummy and I wanted points on why for each of them, which I noticed you completely decided not to post reason's and instead use I didn't say X pout shit reasons.

[*]Magua alluding to players being town is unnecessarily aggressive and off-base as well. Why keep saying that someone is town when you have no proof.

Again I ask why is this a scum tell when players do this throughout MS?

And finally you didn't answer if you thought I was scum in that "statement" and consp did flip town so you should have reads on people on that wagon right?

Wrong!

Magua: Why are you voting Archer? I don't see reason or an explanation there.

[farside22]

RE:Your analysis of my mafia experience - What are you talking about/gettin' at/why are you saying this?

Your "concern" of a NK looks fake as hell.

[farside22]

@Regan: I disagree with outing the doctor. I don't care about the statistics. Keeping the doctor save as long as possible would be great, however if the JK saves the doctor the JK dies. I know it's 50/50 chance of this happening.

As for scum suspects: Looker, Archer and 3rd suspect would be you. AntB is a far fourth at this point.
Reason:
Looker is coasting, making up crap reasoning, not scum hunting and yes for fun I will throw in his meta.
Archer hasn't made a case, doesn't attempt to make a case and argues that because he was able to make a case in another game that doesn't mean squat here.
Broken: I thought town in the beginning, then he drifted off. He called me scum yesterday then backed off and jumped on the Consp wagon for no reason.
AntB: He just feels off. No case, constant arguing with Andrew. If anything way, way anti-town.

[farside22]

* If I'm coasting, ask me questions.
* If my reasons are crap, refute them.
* I am.
* Invalid; I change up every game.

*I have
*I do
*blank stare
*links where you act this way as town

[farside22]

Are you asking me for links or saying you've provided them?

Asking you to provided them.

[farside22]

Regfan:
How is lurking town? How is posting in other games even considered town and not avoiding a game?
No soft claiming to out the real doctor as scum is the way to go. Any scum worth their salt would want to out the doctor at a chance to kill a confirmed townie.
The rest I need to read the post number to see what your talking about, but I'm not lynched because I'm town. Geez.

Do I think I should been lynched do to my play, hell I would have self voted and almost did but because people frown at town self votes and consider it against their win con that I didn't. I know my play this game hurts the town.

That said broken/Regfan is no longer on my scum list and Looker and Archer are scum together.
Yah!!!!

[farside22]

I don't agree with it as a null tell. I have seen scum more often hide and not post then town.
The second is 50/50 chance of being saved.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda, mean nothing, you stating that you were 'willing to selfvote' is just an attempt to seem town, it has no ground behind it yet you continue to mention it.

No I would have and have done it, but because of this game I don't. Call it what you want. I would have hammered as scum. You can call WIFOM all you want, doesn't bother me.

Then you have no problem taking the lynch?

That's against my win condition. I'm stating that I know my play is bringing down the town. If my lynch helps the town then so be it. It also means that Looker and Archer are scum (unless someone tricked me good) and the I will win with the town either way.

I even have an ace in my pocket and I'm not using it, that is how much I believe in my own theory.

[farside22]

The second is 50/50 chance of being saved.

Again, what's the benefit in outting the doctor when it means:
A) You 100% get lynched.
B) Mafia will only have a 50% chance of shooting correctly, otherwise town have a decent shot at getting another msylnch.

Scum outs the doctor and picks correct. Then we have (lets say yesterday) 1 scum, 1 JK, 1 doc, 7VT
worse case scum picks right......1 scum, 1 PR, 7 VT's. Wow that is a lot of mislynches to have to dodge. Point and score one for regan

I even have an ace in my pocket and I'm not using it, that is how much I believe in my own theory.

I suggest you use it, otherwise your lynch will be fast (Assuming Magua got his brain back).

Fine since I didn't crunch the numbers.
If I was scum I would have killed Magua. I figured he was the doctor yesterday (day 2) when the mod replaced him first (SoS had been needed as a replacement longer) and the mod replaced DP first before SoS. I even stated yesterday the mod may have made a mistake and had a theory based on it. So instead of shooting LH who was trying to look like he was the doctor by asking AntB if what I stated was correct, I would have as scum shot what looked like a glaring mod error and shot who I believed was the doctor (Magua) over LH.

[farside22]

Here he states he needs two replacements, doesn't state names nor does he state order in which the replacements would go through in. Even the first time he doesn't state player name, thus I'd believe the order in which he would replace players would be random. No offence to the mod or anything, but I don't believe he thinks through replacement order that deeply. Thus I would consider it a complete null-tell and I believe you would as well.

I disagree. (1) there was a possible lynch that was on the horizon at that point and (2) as I told the mod and most mods should do is replace the player that has required replacement the longest or it leads to tells but yes it is WIFOM. I would think at the time he replaced DP first is he was concerned about a lynch and wanted the PR filled first.
That was my theory at the time.

[farside22]

I just lol'd. I don't know how I missed this intially, but you essentially just slipped.

Farside:

figured he was the doctor yesterday (day 2) when the mod replaced him first (SoS had been needed as a replacement longer) and the mod replaced DP first before SoS. I even stated yesterday the mod may have made a mistake and had a theory based on it.

Implies that you thought SSS's role was less important than Davids. You thought SSS was mafia, you pushed for SSS's replacements lynch and infact called him sure mafia. In what way is doctor more important than mafia and more vital to fill.

Moar votes on Farside.

I thought SSS may have been town which is why I didn't vote for him, but when I did my it's my only thing I had and he didn't recognize a VT claim (which as I said at the time if he was a VT and got a VT role) he would recognize it as he just got the role PM. Second there are 2 scum's in the game. The need to replace one, when one is already in the game is not a priority. Or do you disagree with that for some reason?

[farside22]

1) If you thought he was town, why push a lynch on him? In fact, why turn your AntB scumread to a AntB townread purely due to this spots actions if you believed he was a VT.
2) Yes I strongly disagree, replacing a mafia is way more important than replacing a doc in a 9 player room with 2 mafia.
3) Stop flailing, you'll still win when all the town players need to be replaced and no one wants to read 40+ pages.

If I thought Magua was the doctor why didn't I kill him? Have you answered this yet?
Why is it more import to replace mafia over town? The mafia only have a kill, all you need is one mafia member to make that choice and who does it. Mods are flexible when replacements are needed
So you want to lynch me over looker or archer because........and I should just accept it without questioning your reasoning?

[farside22]

1) I don't need to answer why you wouldn't have killed Magua if I prove that your logic and thought process wasn't one of 'Mod replaced PR first!'.
2) Do I really need to answer why it's more important to replace mafia over town? Seriously? A) Town can't win unless they have mafia to scum-hunt, therefore having a player which hasn't been replaced being mafia is a huge issue. B) I don't think he replaced in relation to importance of role, I've said this already, I find the replacement order a null-tell.
3) I want to lynch you over both of them becuase of the multiple multiple reasons I've stated already.
4) You're the one who said you'll accept it without worrying about reasoning, now you're attempting to deflect, so much for 'Lynch me and it's fine because I've told you both mafia'.

Moar votes please.

1) see four
2) There is still one scum in the game. You can still scum hunt without the other (b) I disagree and explained why.
3) meh
4) is because your wrong and people will ask you why you pushed a lynch without answering 2 questions after I flip town. If your town you should have an answer. You seriously want me to so go ahead and lynch me so scum has a chance at winning the game?

[farside22]

You've stated how strong and certain you are in your FoS's on Looker and Archer, with 2 ML"s, even if you were one of them, with one ML after you, you don't think town would win?
You believe that lynching you would be considered a scum-tell after both ConSp and Lord both attempted to do so and flipped town?
You think lynching you would appear to be a scum-tell after you said you understand that lynching you is for the good of the town?

I love contradictions.

I did state someone could be tricking the town. Like right now I would bet money you could be scum trying to create mislynches.
Unless you are 100% sure of your scum read on Archer, Looker and myself. Since I know you are wrong about me who else are you wrong about?
But hey lets not argue, lets have others weigh in. If I'm lynched based on your reasoning while ignoring 2 good points, then so be it. I'm just looking forward to a bah post when I flip town and you have egg on your face.
If you don't believe me read the sig. I relish is seeing people being wrong.

[farside22]

Also I will note you mentioned that I would push a lynch on someone who I don't see having a PR, so if I was scum why wouldn't I try and push a lynch on someone I know was a PR? And yet the question unanswered why with my thought process would I as scum not kill someone I believe is the doctor?
Just want to note 2 points you chose to ignore and instead push points against me that don't compute as scum.

[farside22]

I said you could be. I had a town read, but I could be wrong. I was wrong about consp so I could be wrong about you.
I don't see Looker town. He's not scum hunting.
1) at least that looks valid
2) No your wrong, I made 2 points on why you were wrong. You just are "choosing" to ignore them . I stated why I believe in (1) where I saw a possible SSS as VT and why I don't agree and how mafia replacement is not a priority and (b) I recognized LH's trick and would have shot Magua first. You can keep ignoring that I'm saying all this today, but day 2 I made a statement in thread about the mod making a mistake based on this theory. So please keep ignoring my I believe Magua is the PR in the game statement. I like to see people explain corners they can't.

I don't' use AtE. I use facts.

[farside22]

If I gave up completely I wouldn't have set a trap for someone I believe to be scum. Besides that I have a theory and if correct I'm smacking the mod later.

[farside22]

Also and point of order to Consp who quoted my post. He missed my soft claim (which I did on purpose) which tells me since he received his PM just recently. He doesn't recognize a town PM.

This was actually one of the reasonings you used behind the Consp lynch, if you believed the mod had made a mistake (That being given a certain role out before another in replacements) why would you beleive that he gave all the players the exact same role definition. A VT is a VT, the wording behind and with it means nothing. Therefore you stating that you had a theory along with this part of the previous post is a complete contradiction.

Say what? Are you saying VT's don't know (as AntB pointed out that day) don't know all they have is a vote? Consp didn't recognize it, why would I think he wasn't scum at that point?

[farside22]

@bella: How is it that Looker is not even on your scum suspect list?