Open 268: Raise the White Flag (Game Over)

[Lindisfarne]

Well, in all honesty, I can understand where you are coming from there CN.

I have an Idea. There is a way we can end this game without anyone losing. We can all vote...for a draw.

If everyone votes to coexist peacefully, the game will be considered a draw, so let us all vote on it. There is nothing stopping scum from just sitting back and being quiet while time runs out, and they can win that way, so I see this as the best opportunity for town. Our chances of nailing a win for town are small and there are too many variables that are off (Honestly, I'm beginning to completely second guess myself, and would have probably voted someone not scummy at all just on the sheer principle).

Townies will see this as our best chance, while scum will be forced to go along, or else it will blow their cover. I think this is the best situation for town.

VOTE: DRAW

[SnakePlissken]

Can you even do that in a game? Surely though a draw would be a No lynch result? Thus handing the night to the scum? That seems a bit of an odd thing to do Lindi. Or isn't that potentially game breaking?

[Lindisfarne]

How is a draw the same as a no lynch? A draw ends the game, your logic dictates that it would just end the day phase. That makes limited sense.

My apologies Mod, but I'm going to quote one small thing from a PM between us (I know it's normally a no-no, but I feel it is necessary so we are all on the same page).

This is from the Mod in regards to the conditions of a Draw: "I will issue a draw only if neither side can meet their win condition,

or

if both sides agree to peacefully coexist and end the game."

The second part is the clincher for us. The mod can't really issue a draw just because scum are deliberately lurking/not inputting and running time out, so something must be done. Naturally, scum will NOT want to vote for a draw. However, in order to keep up their town facade, they must. No intelligent townie will go against a Draw, since we are statistically in a VERY high probability of losing.

In a nutshell: If anyone does NOT vote for a draw, I will vote for them then and there, and then preen over the game and analyze each individual post they have made on why they would be scum. No townie will disagree a Draw is our best way out of this, only scum.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.04

Not Voting (7) - andrew94, bvoigt, Chaotic Neutrality, Lindisfarne, rekirtS, silverbullet999, SnakePlissken

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, January 15, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

Notes

Regarding the vote to end the game in a draw, I need to consult with another mod.

Searching for a replacement for silverbullet999...

[SnakePlissken]

If the mods in agreement then I'll take the draw. I will vote for the Draw if Equinox comes back that we can but otherwise im reserving my vote.

[Equinox]

All players, please send me a PM stating whether or not you will agree to a draw.

I will make a decision based on the PMs I receive. You will be notified of the decision once all PMs are in.

[SnakePlissken]

PM sent.

[Lindisfarne]

Easy, there will be 4 DRAW votes and 3 NO DRAW ones. Why would scum, who can win by literally doing nothing, go for a draw now?

[SnakePlissken]

Vote Draw

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Vote: Draw

[rekirtS]

Draws cool here.

Vote: Draw

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Draw

[Equinox]

themanhimself replaces silverbullet999. Welcome!

This post has been updated!

Be sure to not skip this thinking you've read it already.

In a nutshell, I had a brain fart and extended too far. Sorry for the error. I should take things slowly next time... At any rate, this is the new date, to be etched in stone and placed in the middle of the town square.

The deadline has been extended to Wednesday, January 19, 11:59 PM EST!

[SnakePlissken]

You recieved all the PMs yet?

[andrew94]

draw

[SnakePlissken]

OK so what it now looks like is that we have the scum agreeing to a draw in thread and are probably sitting back and wating for the day to end with a no vote. Suggestions?

[andrew94]

what it is is scums saying no draw via pm

[Equinox]

I'm missing a PM from themanhimself, but waiting for that at this point is unnecessary.

A decision to end the game needs to be unanimous. Since not everyone has agreed to a draw, the game will continue.

Vote Count 3.05

Not Voting (7) - andrew94, bvoigt, Chaotic Neutrality, Lindisfarne, rekirtS, SnakePlissken, themanhimself

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, January 19, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

[themanhimself]

Hey, sorry for not posting yet, I had a hectic 24 hours but everything is settled down now! I'm all for continuing the game but I just got here so I understand if that doesn't carry a lot of weight. I'm gonna start re-reading until we know one way or the other.

[SnakePlissken]

Looks like we are going to have to vote then, now if we are going to lose if we go to no lynch anyway I suppose we have nothing to lose. We need to put down our top 2 suspects and the one with the most suspicion we vote for? Or do we want to try something else?

[Lindisfarne]

Logic dictates either CN, Bvoigt, or Striker should go down. I don't see Bvoigts arguments, CN's super lurking bothers me (and his suspicion list was incorrect), and striker has played either bad town or bad scum this game.

HOWEVER. Following logic has lead me to a slump, so I channeled the essence of me from when I was scum last (newbie 681) to try to get better scum insight.

Newbie 681 had me as scum with a newb scum partner. During N0, I told her I planned to gun for her the whole game, in the off chance that, if she died, I would look exceedingly townie. I stayed off the first lynch (which was a townie) because it was fairly obvious he would die. I was on the second lynch because it was my partner. The fact of the matter is, I did things that were illogical for scum (not trying to kill a townie, gunning after my partner) yet in the end, it paid off and I was hailed for excellent scum play.

Now, this is an example of how scum can do things that may be going against their credo (killing town, working together) and yet ultimately leads to them still winning. Bvoigt, and CN would be the more obvious choices with striker in a close third. But that would be thinking logically, and assuming that scum would be playing in a certain stereotypical way.

There is nothing to say the scum ISNT just sitting back, purposefully staying off the town lynches and letting us kill ourselves. They may have 3 members, but it only takes 2 dead for them to lose. I would assume scum would play more CONSERVATIVELY in that regard, which would indeed support my hypothesis.

Snake, Andrew, and theman.

I am analyzing your past posts with the mentality of cautious scum. Chances are I will vote one of you three.

[Lindisfarne]

Andrew

I'll be honest, I don't know if it's your posting style or what, but you irk me at times. That said here's the beef:

Andrew was not down with the werewolf lynch, but gave the solid reasoning that:

i dont think werewolf555 scum would be so stupid to not realise that?
this wagon stinks of oppurtunistism

^That is solid. You stay off the wagon but you do provide logic as to why it doesn't really make sense. Now it

could

be that he is trying to stay off the lynch, knowing those who are on board will be incriminated with the blood of a townie on their hands, BUT: He rides Shotty most of the game. Now, subjective, but I know my alignment. Why would scum pass up on an easy town lynch for a harder to lynch townie? Kinda counterproductive. Now the argument can be said that only I KNOW I am town, then consider the following: If I AM scum...andrew was gunning after me most of the early game. As I said before, scum would play conservatively. Unless he is scum trying to bus his own buddy (being me in this scenario) then regardless, he is quite town.

He uses some kinda paranoid logic for awhile, but tosses the FOS concept in, which I honestly think was a solid Idea. He's also been quite active today, where as I would think scum would more likely lurk. He came up with the 17% chance of winning for town with random lynches, which is actually pretty spot on, I don't see scum trying to figure up town's win percentage. And of course he tossed in the fact that scum were just saying draw but PMing no draw. Obvious point, but one I dont see scum bringing up on their own.

Basically, Andrew Irks me...but I highly doubt he is scum.

Snake

Against the CHK lynch and asked about a no lynch possiblity. Thats a red flag to me, There were some valid points on CHK, even though he was town, and NOTHING stood out to him to even question. The No Lynch idea was horrible, and anyone with decent experience likely could have done the math on their own. He was off both Lynches that were town. The first one Truly was a horrid lynch, but the second I still think had weight, even after the funky defense chk gave.

When pressured by Bvoigt for not voting, he quickly FOS'd, voted, then unvoted him. He misinterpreted the Draw vote and what it does, when, once again, someone with even a decent amount of experience would have gotten what it would mean. Scum, of course, wouldn't want a draw so his apprehension towards it would make sense if he was scum.

He holds back with the Draw until he hears from equinox if it will work. Whats the deal? Even if he says "No" it's not like it would have hurt town, it just means that it wouldn''t work. Would appear like cautious scum wanting to see how the situation is panning out.

OK so what it now looks like is that we have the scum agreeing to a draw in thread and are probably sitting back and wating for the day to end with a no vote. Suggestions?

Once again, truth.

I've seen several things that are scummy here, but a few that rings possibly town.

silverbullet

said the cop claim was a stretch: but backed up his story with a point from a past game (which he provided).

He provides very little after that, but votes CHK and says

VOTE: chkflip
His giving up and frustration just seems like an annoyed giving up at having a role with higher responsibility (scum) and blowing it. I'm a bit more confident with this wagon vs the stupid ass wagon that day 1 ended with. If he ends up flipping town... scum has got to be on this wagon...

He automatically lumped himself in with the scummy suspects if chk was town. Now, if silver was scum, I doubt he'd vote, and essentially lump himself in with the next days suspects like that.

He says, after the lynch, that one of the lynchers should be voted the next day. This is narrowminded, but normally true: just not the BEST course of action in this case. What bothers me is he says he'd be happy if one of them are voted, and lumps himself in with it. Although its admirable, if he was town, he would NOT want that: town wants the town to win. If he was town he wouldn't want to be lynched. That could either be piss poor wording as town, or an appeal to honesty as scum. I've done the latter before, and it works.
He didn't find me scummy (honestly, the only reason I can figure scum didn't kill me was to try and incriminate me today, and I saw little of that) which was surprising: even though he said he'd be happy if I was lynched.

I'd ask that one of these 4 be the lynch for today (though again feel free to investigate all)

Lindisfarne

, Chaotic Neutrality, bvoigt, silverbullet999.

I don't... well not you...

Those two posts were two days apart. One day he is down with me being lynched, then shortly after he says im not high on his scum list. Contradictory.

AAAAAAAAAAAAND then he vanishes. However, after researching, He hasn't voted on the site after his disappearance, making it seem more...legit, for lack of a better word.

TL;DR

Wow, All in all, im surprised. Theres some scummy bits from everyone, but besides snake not finding anything votably suspicious d2, nothing stands out majorly that rings as scumish. Looking over it all, im thinking maybe im just barking up a tree here.

[Lindisfarne]

I'm going to nap for a bit (just got off work not long ago). When I get up, I'm going to preen over CN. I haven't looked deep enough into him this game. Some things have raised my eyebrows on him in the past, but maybe I dismissed them too quickly. I'll post my findings later tonight/this afternoon.

I want to see activity up everyone. We all can agree scum would lurk at this point in the game. I want to see lots of input from all of you.

[SnakePlissken]

You have answered your own question with me within your own post. Experienced. im not that experienced a player and until the last couple of weeks I was in too many games and was really offering anything at all to any of them. Now I am down to no more than two at a time, maybe I can now start to pick up and get this thing to a point where I can actually be of some used to people in these games.

However, you are peaking my interest as this whole draw ploy is a clever way of making you look ultra town. I could just imagine you in a QT laughing with your fellow scums about just how clever this whole plot is as it diverts attention away from you.

As far as my FOS and votes on Bvoigt the reason I took my vote off was due to you all suggesting that I do so. Voting the draw after I posted in thread about whether the Mod had got responses is that we are starting to get time critical here and that if as we now know that the scum aren't going to go for the draw then whats the point of going through the whole process when what we need to be doing is rooting out the scum.

Finally I agree that at this point I believe that scum will lurk where possible to get through to a no lynch, unless we put a vote on an innocent whereby they will pile on votes to end the game and from a quick look see from comments of others I believe lurking the most is CN however I need to go back and check that for myself. The other person currently I get a bad feeling from is andrew94. bvoigt isn't off the radar either im just wary of making the wrong choice with my vote.

[andrew94]

1) cn suggests 17%. i said that 17% is only if we random lynch
2)scum cant 'laugh in a qt' its day now.
3) what 'bad'feeling