Newbie 1055 (Game over)

[Haylen]

Hi, guys. Welcome to MafiaScum! And possibly your first game here. My name's Haylen, I will answer to any variation of that. I'm your IC (Inexperienced Challenged player...political correctness and all that) and it's my job to show you the ropes and to make sure you understand what is going on. You can ask me any questions you have during the game, unless it is about your role, in which case you must send a PM with your question to Glados (the mod), neither of us bite so don't feel you can't approach us about things. I completely understand that your first game may be a daunting experience...hell, I remember my first game, ended up getting night killed on Night One, and most of you will be in the same boat regarding experience level but you're all here to learn. If you feel as though you haven't done well, don't be put out, just learn from it and improve. It is not cool to insult players for poor logic, anyone caught doing so will receive a post specially made for them in which I barate you...in a kind way. Don't take attacks on your logic personally, or lynches. They happen, that's what Mafia is all about.

Aswell as being a helper here, I am also a player in the game, even though this is a newbie game, I will not be toning down my play, I'll be treating it like a game from any of the other forums otherwise you wont be able to learn and grow as players. Just because I'm the an IC, it doesn't mean you can't attack my logic. I will NEVER lie in my answers when questions asked about game mechanics ect. That would completely defeat the purpose of my being an IC here. If I don't answer your questions quick enough, which is extremely unlikely, I believe the SE's are Stefenny and DavidParker which means they are Semi Experienced players and may also be able to help - there roles arent teaching roles, though.

Anyway, read the rules Zach has decided to use (warning: other mods may decide to use different variations of these rules, but the fundamentals are all the same,so don't get confused). When this game is over, and you're all excited about joining games in other forums, ask yourselves if you truly feel ready for it...there's nothing worse than going into a mini normal game (or any other non road to rome game, for that matter) and realising halfway through it that you aren't ready.

And have fun!!!

(by the way, I will be taking notes all through the game, because I have OCD, so I will be able to tell you what was good, what went wrong and how to improve, when the game has ended.)

Back to player mode

Big warning: I like to multipost, meaning I will post more than once in a row. Usually because I have just remembered something I wanted to say in the post before but forgot. I will spare you my megaposts, no player should ever have to deal with them. Also, my grammar is generally terrible because I have a running conversation in my head and I write literally what my head is saying.

First thing's first.

How we vote and unvote: Zach says in his rules that we have to bold votes and unvotes. This is how we do that:

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[b] Vote: playername [/b] or [b] Unvote: playername [/b]

Another important part of the game is quoting, you will find that you want to quote another player and some point or another. We do that like this:

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[quote="playername"] what they said [/quote]

A little bit more complicated is putting in a link to another post as it requires multiple steps, you might want to use this sometimes when refering to the whole of a post, rather than quoting the whole thing. Here you go:

1) In the post you want to link, click on the little white symbol to the left of the word 'Posted' at the top of the post.
2) Once you have done this, copy and paste the url from your internet's address bar.
3) you will need to do this:

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[url=pasted url from address bar]post number (you can use any word here, but I dont want to be confusing)[/url]

An example of that this. Here is a link to post 1 .

That was a link to Zach's post 1, it has all the rules in it, and as a code, looked like this:

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[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2741369#p2741369]post 1[/url]

(Yes, the fact I just linked you to the rules post again was not a coincidence. Seriously, read them. Ignorance is never an excuse.

Hope that last one wasn't too confusing, if it was just ask

Anyway, enjoy yourselves!

~Hayl~

PS. I want your opinions on me as a teacher after this is over. I need to know I'm teaching stuff in the right fashion.

[Haylen]

Haylens Mafia Glossary

L-1, L-2, L-3: This refers to how many votes on a person until they are lynched. For example, if I had 3 votes and Michel had 4 votes, because it is 5 votes to lynch, I would be at L-2 and Michel would be at L-1.

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Lylo: Means lynch or lose. During lylo if the town doesn't lynch a mafia member, then they have automatically lost. Typical lylo situations are 2 townies and 1 scum or 3 townies and 2 scum. If the number of mafia is equal to the number of town at any time, then the mafia have won.

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Mylo: Mislynch and lose: This is actually a more difficult one to explain. Mylo is where the only thing the town can do safely is to no lynch. You should only ever lynch in a mylo situation when a cop has gotten a guilty on another player. Examples of mylo situations are when there are 3 town and 1 mafia or 6 town and 2 mafia. If the town mislynches during mylo then it is an automatic mafia victory, UNLESS the town get lucky and the have a doc in the game that targets the same person the mafia want to kill.

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OMGUS: Stands for 'Oh my gosh, you suck'. It's a type of vote where the voter only votes for who they voted for because they had voted for them first. I tend to stretch the term to people who attack other people because they attacked them first. Everybody suffers from a bit of OMGUS Syndrome, we can't really help but feel the person who is voting for us is scum. A lot of people find this type of votes scummy, but I don't believe they are.

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WIFOM: Wine in front of me, it's basically circular logic. An example of WIFOM would be me telling you lot to go and look at my previous games because I never play like this as town. WIFOM or Circular logic arguments don't hold very much credibility in games.

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FoS: Finger of Suspicion, you can give people one of these in place of a vote if you don't find them scummy enough to vote them but you still find them suspicious. A more suspicious person would warrant a HoS or Hand of Suspicion.

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IGMEOY: I've got my eye on you, generally means they don't find the person scummy but they are going to watch them carefully in the future to make sure they don't do anything scummy then.

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Hammer: The word for the last vote on a player that causes a lynch. Today that would be the 5th vote.

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QFT: Quote for truth. If you want to be lazy and not type something out yourself and someone else has already written it, just quote their post and type 'QFT' under it.

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EBWOP: Edit By Way of Post. Quoting your previous post and changing it because you made a coding error or something.

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RVS: The Random Voting Stage. That's what we're doing now! It's an icebreaker, votes during this stage arent serious.

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Appeal to Emotion: When a player says or does something in order to play with the other players emotions in order to not be lynched. An example: 'If you lynch me, the town will lose.' Scumminess on this varies from player to player.

[Haylen]

To Iso

- This is useful for reading a player on their own, it allows you to see their thought processes and how much of their posts are REALLY content.
At the bottom of the page it says display posts from previous, in the middle dropdown box choose the player and press go and you'll have all of their posts and only their posts.

To watch the topic

- To stop yourself losing it regularly like me.
I think the closest to this now is the bookmark feature. Underneath the login/logout option at the top of the page on the right hand side is a tick with 'bookmarks' next to it. To view pages you've bookmarked and to find out if any other posts have been made in those threads, simply click on 'bookmarks'. You can bookmark a thread by going to the little toolbar at the bottom of this screen and click 'bookmark this thread'. This thread will then appear when you click the bookmark thing I mentioned above.

The wiki

- That thing I edit sometimes.
The wiki is like that deceptive friend who tries to manipulate you into doing what it wants and ends up getting you into trouble. A lot of the information on their is outdated, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't still be read. Link to the wiki is underneath 'watched topics'. A group of people are trying to update the wiki with proper info - some of it is right, the rest isnt.

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Btw, I'M A GIRL, just in case in comes to that. I am willing to put my 'I'm a girl, refer to me as such' avatar on again.

vote gapoc459

I don't like numbers.

[Haylen]

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[b]bold stuff[/b]

I'm a girl avatar! That's how sucky my handwriting is when using paint.

[Haylen]

They weren't ponies, they were the unicorns from 'Charlie the Unicorn' ._. SHUUUUUUUUUUUN. Btw that show scared me way more than Higurashi anime did, I suggest watching it.

[Haylen]

Expect lower activity from most players at the weekend, I'm usually quite inactive then cause of work. Also, the games barely been open for 5 minutes, sometimes it can take 2 days for people to post.

RVS lasts until a player does something scummy and serious discussion gets going.

[Haylen]

None at all In the first game I IC'd, I scared all the newbies and SE's away for 48 hrs after my first post.

[Haylen]

Can you all answer these please!

1. Is there any time coming up where we can expect you to not be very active?

I'm v/la at the Weekends but I will pop my head in.

2. Have you familiarized yourself with Mafia Discussion and the Wiki?

Duh. Wiki admin.

3. Have you read at least one completed game on site?

I like to think so.

4. What is your experience level? How many games have you played? Are there any complete newbies in the house? Does everyone know how the game in general works.

Played roughly 70 games, modded 12-ish now - the majority of which were newbie games. Currently playing IC'ing in two games, playing as a hydra and modding a newbie and large normal - soon running another newbie.

NOTE: I do not encourage random questioning about game theory because I've seen it be devastating for town before. (I should know, I was the scum asking the questions! >.<)

[Haylen]

Now you should grovel to Zach cause we aren't allowed to link to ongoing games - it's against site rules, it counts as talking about a game outside a game. What you should have said there was 'Yeh, it's still in progress' then stopped.

[Haylen]

I've been thinking about updating my wiki for a while now :/

[Haylen]

Chill please. Nobodies being racist.

[Haylen]

No. We claim at L-1.

Unvote, Vote Mr Bumb

Role fishing.

[Haylen]

I was going to post something but now I can't cause I'm angry. DO NOT accuse me of not being a good IC because I'm not posting, I posted 4 hours ago and I have stated clearly that I'm v/la at weekends.

[Haylen]

Sorry, had an awful day involving a serious asthma attack (which we didn't know I have), a several doctors visits and getting used to using inhalers. Trust me, I would have much rather had been posting here. Will do so properly tomorrow.

[Haylen]

baaaaaaack! Weee! Btw, no need to replace me, IC's and newbie mods don't get sick, we get temporarily incapacitated. Btw, I'm 20, since we're discussing ages but I neither look nor act it. MrBump, please don't call me Hayden, it's Haylen ._. Hayden's a boys name.

I need to re-read this thing.

[Haylen]

48hrs or 3 days depending on the mod. I'm writing an analysis.

[Haylen]

Sorry, this is probably going to be difficult to believe and a crappy excuse, I was busy catching the alt of a banned user and pulling up as much evidence against him as possible. I put off playing in all my games for the day yesterday and some of the day before because I wanted him off the site before he ruined any more games. I should have posted what I was doing, but it would have ruined what I was up to if he knew that I knew, if you see what I mean. I succeeded btw, and he's now off the site, and harrassing me on facebook cause, ya know, getting caught once just wasn't enough.

I do have some questions for Gapoc

I would like to know why I am so high on Gapoc's town list when a couple of pages ago he was sure I was scum. Here's quotes of his opinions on me, clearly showing his thought process with regards to me.

If you really want me to try to build a case against someone, my biggest suspicions are on Haylen. She is an IC, and she said that she would help everyone from time to time. Well, she didn't! So FoS, Haylen

I'm scummy because I wasn't helping everybody at that time and because I'm a bad IC.

Haylen: I was expecting much more from an IC. After all, wiki says: Lurking kills newbie games. There are only 7-9 players in the game as is, so there are a decreased number of people posting in the game to begin with. Do not subtract from that number. Make an effort to post in the game, and post regularly. As an IC you are at least partially responsible for the flow of the game, because very often the other players in the game will not understand why more discussion is a good thing. You want to lead by example. Secondly, you want to give the newbies a good first experience. GAMES WHERE NO ONE IS POSTING ARE NOT FUN. Give them a fun game. Give yourself a fun game. Don't lurk.

I'm scummy because I'm not posting and because I'm a bad IC.

My two biggest suspicions are on MrBump, because of playing in the SE's shadow, and Haylen, who is not fulfilling her role as IC.

I'm scummy because I wasn't fullfilling my role as IC.

I smell ATE... Anyway, I'll keep in mind that you're V/LA, but still, you're just more suspicious than the SE's.

I'm scummy because I'm appealing to everybodies emotions.

6. Haylen: You're not scummy. But Stefunny is even less scummy.

Huh? I disappear for quite a while, actually not fullfilling my role as an IC, and now I'm town?

As a side note, you should all remember that there are people sat behind those avatars and respect them, take them for who they are. MrBump: I understand what it's like to have conditions - in college, I was set on par to go to Oxford, could've got there easily but then my head went funny in college and my grades dropped dramatically.

@Vinoth: How the f*ck can you dare to post here and actually start voting without even knowing what is going on?!?!? Seriously, what is wrong with you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?? My "trick" was completely different. I was not hoping some Mafia would jump at the opportunity to lynch me; I was just overwhelmed, gave up, and wanted to start a new game... I also wanted to see what the mafia would... aww, forget it... That, as well as yours was noob/scum shit! And how dare you tell someone that they're pissing you off!!! You're pissing EVERYBODY off!!!!!

Seems fake, like bussing, compared to how he has attacked me and MrBump for things.

Accuses everybody else of AtE when he has probably used it more than everybody else put together this game.

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Vinoth: DO NOT Self vote! Btw, that was very AtE'y especially considering you didn't really have that many votes (I'm not sure of the validity of this statement due to not being about to find a proper vote count!). Either way, AtE in the form of a selfvote is scummy and I find it interesting that you followed Gapoc's idea when it came to voting yourself. The way you have interacted with each other really shows a connection

I agree with Mr Bumps case on Gapoc, it looks logical and well explained. I do request that he turns down the anger though as it is clouding my judgement on him. I too could see possible partnerships in Gapoc/Vinoth and Gapoc/Sxybeast.

Since you are one of the SE Stefunny, could you give me some suggestions on how to go scum hunting? Thanks.

Ask questions and look for motivations in things. Scumhunting is a really difficult thing to teach. Things to look for are appeals to emotion, backtracking, hypocrisy and fencesitting. Those are the basic ones. There's also meta, everybody has some small thing that they can't change about themselves as either scum or town, that requires knowing the other player quite well though. Active lurking is antitown and lying is scummy. But you really really need to start asking questions and questioning people.

Doros needs to provide more content as it looks like she is active lurking.

@ Stefunny, it's really difficult to explain the difference between newbie scum and just plain newbie, because I do it mostly by feel. A lot of my play is based on gut, then I go and look for things in posts that would validate what my gut is telling me. I think from what I have seen from you that you are town though.

I also see no problem currently with what DavidParker has been posted. From what I have read of his previous games, he is not fullfilling his town meta.

Unvote

I will decide who to vote for when I have responses to this post.

[Haylen]

You shouldn't WANT to be a bad player. You did however slip up that your partner is either a he, or you believe him to be a he, which narrows it down quite a bit. I wouldnt advise self-hammering or self-voting as any role to be honest. I have to go to work now.

[Haylen]

1) Vinoth was the person I was going to be voting today. He was my #1 pick for Gapoc's buddy, and definitely somoene i found scummy even if gapoc flipped town. Gapoc revealed him as town?? Are you joking??? He did no such thing. Vinoth appeared most likely to be gapoc's buddy to me, so i'm rather glad he was night killed personally. Vinoth would have been an EASY lynch to push for today, and one I was planning on initially pushing for if he was still alive.

Bull and shit, I made this exact argument and you didn't listen to it.

Is there a Cop in the house anywhere, btw? IMO Cop should claim right about now. I doubt scum will want to fakeclaim at this stage anyway.
Yeah, I thought everyone knew one scum was left.

the first of the newbie to actually post some original content, and an opinion that is their own.

Because of course, my entire case on Gapoc was just bullshit and copying you up 'till there (I'm pretty certain I was pushing the lynch at that point).

You what?

Vote Mr Bump

ANOTHER case of role-fishing. Cop should only claim during lylo. And it's not lylo.

[Haylen]

I don't think Sxy has posted yet today, prod tiem?

Haylen, geezus. Not all our opinions are identical. Cop claims, we get an Inno/Guilty. If Cop is fake, we lynch them. Simple as. I'm using Epic Mafia logic which is basically COP CLAIMS D1 FOR DOC PROTECT GOGOGOGO

Cop claiming before absolutely necessary is poor play.

[Haylen]

Using spoiler tags isn't "hiding text" as there's a very obvious drop down menu to show it. Just makes the post look cleaner. "Hiding text" would be using color to make it blend into the background.

As a mod, I can tell you spoiler tags tend to be frowned upon in games. I don't mind when I'm modding as long as there isn't a vote or unvote or mod note in there.

I can't get behind the whole sacrificing one player for another unless it involves a counterclaim (that isn't VT). Just in case it's relevant, the whole point of my post tat asked questions in the beginning of the game was the gouge how much each player knew and what I should be teaching, it was nothing more or nothing less. So unless someone was chopped off to delibrately misrep Doros, I don't see anything scummy about it.

I will be doing a nice re-read of DavidParker tomorrow and I think this is the game where I have a few outstanding questions to answer aswell, so I'll get on that too.

[Haylen]

There will be a reply tomorrow. I'm in quite a bit of pain right now.

[Haylen]

6. Haylen, who's had some health problems to deal with etc, but who then also happened to be pretty absent. What say you, mayor of Lurksville?

The Haylen Answer: It's fine, I'm fine, as I've said before, my activity generally pics up later on in games as I seem to be a lot more useful to the town then. I find it difficult to focus early in games.
The Honest Answer: Please please don't ask me where I have been, I mentioned before that I didn't get into Oxford due to a certain problem. That problems reared its ugly head again and I'm currently pretty depressed. Combine that with stress, it's lowered by immune system and I now have a kidney problem

Sorry for the rant there, I needed to say...something. Anything. I'm not used to showing emotion as of late. I think more people on site need to be aware that the face people use on site may not necessary be how they feel. Before anyone asks, that wasn't an appeal to emotion, if you find my lurking scummy, lynch me for it but you shouldn't lynch somebody based on lurking alone.

Vittorio is fencesitting, btw. He basically called us all suspicious.

FoS Vittorio

gapoc was only a Mafia goon, so why do you seem to assume we are either scenario 1 or 2? You do realize as he is a goon all of those are still options. That is, unless you know there is a roleblocker...

Very nice catch! I was wondering that myself when I was reading it. To me, that equates to a scumslip.

Unvote, Vote Vittorio

Only scum would know at this stage that a roleblocker is active in the game. I do wonder though, why Stefunny didn't vote for him though, despite finding the slip.

Yaaaay! I have taught Doros to multi-post. You have learnt well, my newbie, you have learnt well. I'm actually willing to let Doros see another day, because I'm not certain that all the scumminess people are seeing is because she's actually scum or if she's trying to use the tips I've given to catch scum but is finding it difficult. It would make sense if Doros was scum, because she was scum with another newbie. Hear me out, this is going somewhere. As scum, I tell my newbies to try and blend in with the town and give them tips on appearing townlike, other IC's and SE's do the same. From what I've observed by watching newbie-scum discuss in the confirmation phase, their talk tends to just consist of 'hi. hi. Any idea how we should play this? Just try and hide from the town, don't look suspicious.' Which would explain why Gapoc was playing so badly too, he didn't have an experienced scumbuddy to give him tips. That's why, I think we're looking at a newbie-scum team. This was another reason why I wanted to know everybodies level of experience.

If MrBump posts in caplock-huge font again, I will personally escort him to the lynching post. That kills my eyes so so so much. (colour sensitivity.) Same to Doros for quoting it.

I never heard of OMGUS before and you sure are acting strange and scummy as hell too. Stefunny has made a false accusation. Deal with it.

Now that's a lie right there! Doros, have you read the thread fully?

This is one of those things I only want Doros to comment on.

Voting someone purely because they are voting you is super scummy. Your arguments are pretty awful.

OMGUS is a newbie tell or an overly-emotional player tell, it's not a scumtell. When you look into the fundamentals of OMGUS, it becomes clearer to you. Basically, when you OMGUS someone, you vote/attack them because they attacked you. As scum, this will occur because your emotions have gotten the better of you and you're scared of being lynched, you also know that player suspects you and want him out of the game ASAP - thus you vote the player who voted for you. As a townie, it tends to be caused by anger, because you know that you're town and deep down you believe that everybody else should know you're town aswell - thus to you, anybody who calls you scum is lying about your alignment. Me? If a more experienced player replaces in, you may see this. I've once OMGUS'd a player not for attacking me, but for attacking one of my newbies with personal insults - I was so angry at him that I believed he was scum and tunnelled on him til the end of the game. He actually turned out to be scum. Lesson learnt: Don't fuck with my newbies. The point in me saying that was, OMGUS comes in all different shapes and sizes, you just need to work out if the player who's voting you is angry or scared.

I really do not understand why Stef is currently at L-2, looking through the thread, I couldn't find anything on her that was too much of a concern - in fact, I think pointing out the scumslip was very townie but then not following it up with a vote shows that she's not voting in the same way as would be logical for someone with her evidence.

There is a part two to this post, but i need to be up at 8 and it's 4am now.

[Haylen]

I asked if you had read every post properly, to put it basic.

[Haylen]

Haylens Mafia Glossary

L-1, L-2, L-3: This refers to how many votes on a person until they are lynched. For example, if I had 3 votes and Michel had 4 votes, because it is 5 votes to lynch, I would be at L-2 and Michel would be at L-1.

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Lylo: Means lynch or lose. During lylo if the town doesn't lynch a mafia member, then they have automatically lost. Typical lylo situations are 2 townies and 1 scum or 3 townies and 2 scum. If the number of mafia is equal to the number of town at any time, then the mafia have won.

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Mylo: Mislynch and lose: This is actually a more difficult one to explain. Mylo is where the only thing the town can do safely is to no lynch. You should only ever lynch in a mylo situation when a cop has gotten a guilty on another player. Examples of mylo situations are when there are 3 town and 1 mafia or 6 town and 2 mafia. If the town mislynches during mylo then it is an automatic mafia victory, UNLESS the town get lucky and the have a doc in the game that targets the same person the mafia want to kill.

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OMGUS: Stands for 'Oh my gosh, you suck'. It's a type of vote where the voter only votes for who they voted for because they had voted for them first. I tend to stretch the term to people who attack other people because they attacked them first. Everybody suffers from a bit of OMGUS Syndrome, we can't really help but feel the person who is voting for us is scum. A lot of people find this type of votes scummy, but I don't believe they are.

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WIFOM: Wine in front of me, it's basically circular logic. An example of WIFOM would be me telling you lot to go and look at my previous games because I never play like this as town. WIFOM or Circular logic arguments don't hold very much credibility in games.

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FoS: Finger of Suspicion, you can give people one of these in place of a vote if you don't find them scummy enough to vote them but you still find them suspicious. A more suspicious person would warrant a HoS or Hand of Suspicion.

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IGMEOY: I've got my eye on you, generally means they don't find the person scummy but they are going to watch them carefully in the future to make sure they don't do anything scummy then.

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Hammer: The word for the last vote on a player that causes a lynch. Today that would be the 5th vote.

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QFT: Quote for truth. If you want to be lazy and not type something out yourself and someone else has already written it, just quote their post and type 'QFT' under it.

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EBWOP: Edit By Way of Post. Quoting your previous post and changing it because you made a coding error or something.

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RVS: The Random Voting Stage. That's what we're doing now! It's an icebreaker, votes during this stage arent serious.

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Appeal to Emotion: When a player says or does something in order to play with the other players emotions in order to not be lynched. An example: 'If you lynch me, the town will lose.' Scumminess on this varies from player to player.

I posted this at the beginning of the game.

You should probably claim, btw. Since you're being threatened with a hammer.

[Haylen]

too depressed to reply right now.

[Haylen]

Doros, I am not convinced that you are scum, but, sorry, I am going to vote for you. Some of your plays appear to be manufactured in Dodge City, some of them show you to be town. Then again, some of your posts do appear to be concerned with personal survival rather than team survival. If you are town, see this as a sacrifice for town. Hopefully we will win and your death be avenged.

I do not believe DP should sacrifice himself. My big suspects remain Stefunny and SxyBeast.

Anyone who wants to suggest this is a scum hammer, feel free to do so.

VOTE: Doros

You just hammered without a claim. That's scummier than hammering without one. My biggest scum read is Vittorio.

[Haylen]

You're missing the point. I don't think Doros would have known to claim at L-1, which is why I told her to. She disappeared from the thread and you hammered, there's plenty of time before deadline. And you know, not everyone who accuses you of being scum is actually scum.

Stop the ad hom please.

[Haylen]

@ Stefunny - There is a reason I have been inactive, but I would appreciate it if we didn't discuss it, despite it being game related.

So, I like visuals:


I don't think that pie chart really shows anything, because it doesn't take into account the lengths of my posts. I either post loads of small posts and ask or a lesser amount of large posts. I am intrigued as to how many of the other players posts are fluff rather than content. And then I will do
more graphs for them!

Despite Stefunny commenting on my lack of posts, I find it interesting that she is ignoring her lack of posts too and it would be interesting whether
or not she has noticed the severe lack of content that have been in Sxybeasts posts. I think I can remember her mentioning it but I haven't
come to her iso yet.

Sxybeast

The first few of her posts don't really matter as they are in the RVS, they were fluff and non-game related. It's very interesting that she took her vote off so quickly, though. Most people keep their RVS votes on their chosen player until the game is out of the random voting stage. I find it a little bit suspicious that she found a load of people not posting in the beginning suspicious, because not everybody can be scum!

Then she answers my questions after a load of fluff. Answering questions = good, fluff = bad.

anyone still awake and want to just talk? im bored

Suggests posting fluff??? O_O Definately anti-town.

She does, however, have a point with MrBump attacking her for defending herself.

She doesn't explain clearly why she votes for Gapoc. In fact, she votes him because other people have unvoted him. It just seems weird that she voted him when everybody else unvoted, seemingly scared that he would be hammered. Distancing and concern for a scumbuddy being lynched?

If he turns up scum I wouldn't be sure who his partner is except I would be pretty sure it isn't DP. Mainly because no matter how new a person is maf tends not to buddy so that if one is caught the other isn't.

Wrong. Mafia have been known to buddy townies rather than their own team-mates. It isn't exclusively a scumtell either, I've used it repeatedly as a town tactic and there are a few others who do to - but you need to know how to do it properly before you try.

Gets defensive over Stefunny mentioning her RVS vote. As SE, Stef would know not to put very much faith in RVS and thus would have just been fishing for a reaction...which she obviously got. Distancing Gapoc with RVS vote?

Defends Gapoc in post I#34.

Can't find anything else that's wrong. Would be tempted to vote based on this evidence.

Vittorio

I don't like that he voted for Gapoc without giving any reasoning for it. He said that there 'may be many tell', but why not expand on that? Smells a bit like distancing.

Expresses that he finds everyone suspicious. As I said, not everybody can be scum, I mean yeh, have a few suspects but wow. He seems to be fence-sitting quite a bit, which is scummy.

Tries to calm Gapoc down, this is good. But also establishes a connection between the two.

He seems to be votehopping all over the place, with none or very little reasoning for his votes. His vote for David Parker, for example, contained no comment on him at all, let alone the reasons why he was voting for him. Scummy...theeeen a couple of posts later, he votes for Mr Bump and then unvotes him again with no reasoning.

------ENDING AT I#33--------
Will do some more tomorrow.

[Haylen]

Ooops! Sorry, I didn't notice the second page on your iso.

[Haylen]

Anyone who looks at your iso for themselves will see what I mean.

Answering people later.

[Haylen]

Your last post contradicted yourself, Vittorio. Firstly, you say that I must know what your intentions were because I'm IC, then you say that I copied the word 'distancing' from you. Sorry, you can't have it both ways, any good IC knows what distancing is and knows when to point it out. At the top of the page near the log out button, you will see another option called 'search', type in 'distancing' into keywords and see how many results you find. If you want quotations from where I think you were distancing, then I will be glad to post them.

Secondly,

In this regard, my vote-jumping/fence-sitting are tactics to see how people respond. As an IC you should know that.

I'm not a mind reader, only you know what your intentions are in a game. I call it as I see it. Votehopping and fencesitting are universally scummy actions on this site. If you do it in another game, I can guarantee you that you will be attacked for it there aswell. Shall I provide links with examples from games where people have been lynched for doing this?

Thirdly, just because you've used accused somebody of distancing, it doesn't mean that nobody can accuse you of it. That isn't a get out claus. In fact, you posting that you can't be distancing because of that is scummy in itself since it insinuates that you knew what you were doing when you were accusing Sxybeast of it.

What you did was fence-sitting because you are showing a lack of conviction towards one player or another by saying everybody is scummy. Perhaps the correct word isn't fencesitting but it's the closest I could get.

So, Haylen, who do you have clear town reads on if you're not suspicious of everyone?

I'm suspicius of you actually. Thought that was obvious. And did you seriously just ask me who my clear town reads are?

Vote Vittorio

I'm not giving away information that's going to help scum choose a nightkill at this stage in the game. I find it interesting that you practically ignored me in the game until I started suspecting you. OMGUS attack, now I just need to figure out whether it's subtype a of subtype b - it can't be subtype c.

I hate to go on about this, but my first, unchanging vote was for Gapoc. Would I have voted straight off for my scumbuddy and held my vote there until he was lynched?

Yes. That's called distancing. You wouldn't believe how many scum vote their partner straight off the bat. Not to mention creating WIFOM

your misrepresentation of me is so wild and fantastical

Sorry, it's not misrepresentation if I can prove it.

I am with Stefunny, you smell scummy.

Total misrep. Read through Stefunny's post again. She NEVER called me scummy, she said she was clueless as to my alignment.

Alas, either there's too much ego involved for posters and they want to maintain some form of frosty distance (understandingly as well, for who can we trust in this game?)

Rules of Mafia

Rule Number One: Haylen is a girl.
Rule Number Two: Don't self hammer as town. If you're scum, you're doing the town a favor though, so carry on with that!
Rule Number Three: You don't know anybody elses alignment as town and they don't know yours. So don't whine when people attack you.
Rule Number Four: Not everybody who votes for you after you vote for them is OMGUSing. (

Note before I forget

: I would have expected Vittorio to call me out on OMGUS actually if he was town.)
Rule Number Five: If you're going to use '@+playername' to address a player. PUT A SPACE BETWEEN THE @ AND THE PLAYERS NAME. GRRR.
Rule Number Six: TRUST NOBODY. Especially the guy buddying you, in fact, buddy back and get him lynched later! (ha ha, Zach, ha ha.)

She seems to want to put me under pressure so that I have to respond to that and not scum hunt (so that she won't be a target).

Not at all. Where'd you get that from. I'm pressuring you cause I'm 99% sure you're scum.

I also find it odd that she initially explained her absence due to illness, yet remains quite active on other threads.

Have you read those other threads? I've said the same thing in them as I have in this one and I haven't been more active in others unless you're counting the games I'm modding in which case all players accept that modding a game is a good reason for being more active in one specific thread would you prefer an active mod or a less active one? Try misrepping me some more.

It cannot be continuing illness that keeps her from this thread...

What do you suggest is keeping me from the thread then? Let me guess, because I've been less active, you think that I'm scum. Due to scum being scared of posting just in case they get lynched. Yes, Yes, Hayl-scum would really be worried about that with a perfect SK record, a near perfect scum record and a roughly 25% win rate as town. I didn't win 6 games as SK by lurking. -_- I would actually be more worried about getting lynched as town.

There is no indication of any investigation result of DPs to anyone alive, btw. I've read him in iso and conclude that I am 100% sure he tried to investigate Vinoth on Night One. Because of this quote:

1) Vinoth was the person I was going to be voting today. He was my #1 pick for Gapoc's buddy, and definitely somoene i found scummy even if gapoc flipped town. Gapoc revealed him as town?? Are you joking??? He did no such thing. Vinoth appeared most likely to be gapoc's buddy to me, so i'm rather glad he was night killed personally. Vinoth would have been an EASY lynch to push for today, and one I was planning on initially pushing for if he was still alive.

Cops tend to investigate the player they find the scummiest and that was Vinoth. You need to read between the lines to see what I'm seeing though, he's making it obvious that he investigated Vinoth without revealing that he was the cop. He definately didn't investigate the last scum because if he did, he would have revealed himself straight away, with one scum dead there was only one left so he wouldn't be at risk of a night kill.

I will answer Sxybeast after I have done a certain something for a certain someone.

[Haylen]

I pray to god that the townies can use my impending death to find the last scumbucket. I'm not going to plead; I just hope that my death shall not be in vain and that town will ultimately win.

Yaaaaaay! AtE.

@Townies: I am town. Lynch me, and you will all feel silly. I know this is tedious, but I want to rub it in that you shouldn't be swayed by arguments based on limited experience. If I die, I hope to see apologies from townies who thought I was scum. That's all.

More AtE.

An what was WITH the doc breadcrumbing, btw. Do you claim Doc or are claim Vanilly?

[Haylen]

Softclaiming Cop and breadcrumbing Doc? When the breadcrumbing happen?
Vittorio, claim, btw.

Wait. Maybe I'm getting games crossed again. Weeeeeeeeee! I'm pretty hyper right now. I thought he was breadcrumbing Doc (I'm remembering from what other people were saying) rather than soft-claiming doc.

[Haylen]

I am still mostly suspicious of Haylen for pushing so hard

It's how I play. When I'm sure somebody is scum, I tunnel the living snot out of them until they crack. The majority of the time it works and only twice has it failed.

As I said, I was trying to see if anyone would hint back at me through repartee. (As I said in my first post, I play on a forum where people are forum buddies, and people use that a lot to signal and look for trust. Perhaps I was stupid to use it here where we don't 'know' each other.)

Here, we call that buddying, which tends to be scummy -_- Remember my last role, don't trust anybody. Even if you're a cop in a closed game, you can't trust your results - their might be an investigation immune godfather or a framer.

[Haylen]

Interesting change in attitude.

[Haylen]

Come now, vote me off. I'm getting tired of this bullshit, and I want to see Haylen eat the snot she tunnels out of innocents. Come Stef, SxyBeast!

The only way I would be eating snot is if I was town. Thus you believe I'm town.

[Haylen]

When a statement is ambiguous: yes!

[Haylen]

Incorrect. Paranoid: Yes. Scum: No. I was taught here to question everything everybody says.

[Haylen]

Does town win, now, Vittorio?

[Haylen]

To the last townie out there, don't vote until you are absolutely sure the person you wish to vote for is scum. One false move and the game is lost for us. We should claim, I would be happy to go first if you both are ok with that.

[Haylen]

Will claim now. I might not have internet access for the rest of the day.

I am the doctor

. I have been less active this game because I wanted to remain scummy enough for the scum to not kill me but town enough not to get lynched and the way I figured that could work was by being slightly less active than I usually would be in a game. (This might not be the right kind of play to exhibit but this is actually the first time I've been doc and only the third time in two years I've been a town power role.) The main reason I was attacking Vittorio was because I had misread somewhere that he was softclaiming/breadcrumbing doc when in actual fact he was doing that for cop. You don't breadcrumb MY role >=( Anyway, yeah, I thought he was scum setting himself up for a fakeclaim during lylo so I decided to do a breadcrumb of my own (I'm not really into breadcrumbs or softclaims, as I said I've only been town PR twice, it's not something I've hacked yet without giving myself away entirely), so I did something similar to what DavidParker did:

@ Stefunny - There is a reason I have been inactive, but I would appreciate it if we didn't discuss it, despite it being game related.

So, I like visuals:

I

don't think that pie chart really shows anything, because it doesn't take into account the lengths of my posts. I either post loads of small posts and ask or a lesser

a

mount of large posts. I am intrigued as to how many of the other players posts are fluff rather than content. And then I will do

m

ore graphs for them!

D

espite Stefunny commenting on my lack of posts, I find it interesting that she is ignoring her lack of posts too and it would be interesting whether

o

r not she has noticed the severe lack of content that have been in Sxybeasts posts. I think I can remember her mentioning it but I haven't

c

ome to her iso yet....

Read the bold.

My actions:

Night One:
I protected DavidParker because I spotted his Cop breadcrumb.

C

aught our third scum it seems.

O

h yes, I said third scum; I'd like to counter claim your role as the "un-votable, un-killable day kill cop" as that is my role.

P

erhaps the mod did mess up to include it in the game; but two of them... unlikely.

Your Claim has revealed you for what you are!

Night Two:
I protected DavidParker again, but my protection obviously didn't work - I was roleblocked. I guess scum caught on to why I might actually be lurking.

Night Three:
I protected Stefunny this time because I believed her to be the most likely town person at that time and I thought that scum would try and kill her. They did and I was roleblocked again.

Any counterclaims?

[Haylen]

The only thing weird is you said you had been a Town PR three times, then later only twice.

It's twice + this one. Later on I was refering to only the first two as they were my 'game over' games because they are the only ones I can count and refer to as they are complete.

SxyBeast is the RoleBlocker, right? How would Sxy work out you were Doc? Your breadcrumb was yesterday IIRC (and I'm kicking myself for not catching it, and smashing my head off the wall for David's), so how was Sxy work out you were the Doc?

I don't know. One of you is the roleblocker, either of you could have worked it out. Roleblocking tends to be random anyway. Did you think about process of elimination? The other players could have been playing vanillary or it's possible that one of you was worried in case I was doc and decided to roleblock me. Even newbie scum have seen enough on here to know that PR's tend to be lurky throughout the game. It's all speculation.

IF Haylen was the scum, these kills would make no sense at all FHPOV. Why would she go after Vinoth, biggest red herring ever, then after David Parker, the next red herring? She DID catch his breadcrumb; but it was D1 so surely David would've died N1? Unless she didn't notice it until re-reading the thread?

I look for breadcrumbs in games all the time. As it either means that player really is a PR, or that they're scum. Look back to Day One, I never attacked DP, barely mentioned him. I left him alone. If I drew attention to him he might have been a night kill choice. He was too dangerous to be left alive for scum, it makes no sense that scumhayl would spot a breadcrumb and then think 'oh I'm going to leave him alive a bit longer', kill some random guy who wasn't even protown and then kill him the next night. As you said, I'm a good scum player, those tactics make no sense. Scum who saw that could have just kept roleblocking him but they opted for a kill on the second night. I'm going to stop now, or I'll get into another long rant about optimal play as scum -_-

David was almost certainly going to die the next day as he was a red herring again. Why would anyone kill him? Simple, they caught his breadcrumb.

We're verging on WIFOM here. To me, it looks like the kills were completely random rather than thought out, therefore, scum wouldn't have needed to catch the breadcrumb.

I want to say that I think it's MrBump because of the slip by gapoc - to me he seemed quite emotional, people tend to slip up when they are. But my gut is saying Sxybeast.

[Haylen]

As I said, breadcrumbing isn't something I've ever really done. I got quite worried when I saw the cop died and thought it best to breadcrumb as soon as possible just in case anybody decided to claim my role.

[Haylen]

So you think I'm scum on a case based on WIFOM and cynicism?

[Haylen]

As I said, personally I think the roleblocks AND the kills were random. It would make sense if they both were as it would display somebody who didn't know what they were doing.

I need to take a look at your interactions with Gapoc. And who seemed a bit worried when he selfvoted/got lynched.

[Haylen]

I had a massive post. That I lost cause my internet died. In summary, I half proved that Sxy had reason to kill DP and Stefunny using the same logic that she is using to accuse me. I also don't know what question she's on about but I'll be happy to answer if it's re-iterated. Tunnelling is what I do, it's my scum hunting technique.

[Haylen]

She said that I would have reason to kill them as scum because I saw town in both DP and Stefunny. However, she goes on to say this:

David is clearly a good player and I was getting a town and possible pr vibe from him so killing him seemed kinda obvious. And the same principal went for Stefunny on the whole town vibe. She, out of the three of u, seemed the most town to me so getting her out of the way also makes sense.

Suggesting that she, herself, has that thought process. She felt that DP gave off a PR vibe and that Stefunny was the most pro-town, thus suggesting that she would have had more of a motive than me in killing them or at least equal motive. That also goes to show that she gets power-role vibes from people, which suggests that she may have received a power role vibe from myself enabling her to block me twice.

I mean she did claim to be on them as doc so clearly she saw something that made her think town.

But so did she. She said Stefunny was obv town to her and that DP gave her PR vibes. If you think about it, the NK's would make more sense coming from her point of view, if I was scum and knew DP was cop as I did, I would have killed him on the first night. People don't just get vibes in one day, they develop over several days, so it would make sense that he was killed on Night Two from her point of view.

To me it was clear that he was town and that maf needed to eliminate him.

He honestly wasn't obvious town -_- I will give you a list of things that made him obvious scum to me. I don't tunnel people unless they're obvious scum to me, because it puts me in a bad situation if they turn out town. There is no way in hell that I would tunnel on Vittorio if I was scum, especially the day before lylo as it would practically guarantee my lynch in lylo.

Oh ya also Bump I distance from everyone because I don't know who is maf and don't want to buddy to him because wen they get lynched I look scummy as shit.

Not a town thought process. Townies shouldn't care about how scummy they look, they do what they can to ensure that scum is lynched. The rest of the town will then be able to understand that townies motivations and believe them when they say they're town.

But see Haylen if it were random y would the maf be on the same person twice?

As I said before, I am not a mind reader. I don't know why I was roleblocked twice. You seem to have a pretty good insight as to what it was though, more so than myself and MrBump which to me suggests that you're know because you are the roleblocker and you blocked me.

of course clearly u ppl didn't think he was town because he begged u to listen so he must be scummy that just angers me.

Mafia is a tough game, unless you detach yourself you'll always be emotionally involved and it clouds your judgement. Not all AtE is scummy, but the kind where you try and make the town fear lynching you is - and that's the kind that he was using.

Trust me, this was said a lot more coherently in my original post.

[Haylen]

Sorry. Sometimes I sleep Unfortunately my sleep pattern is that of somebody in New York :/ And did I mention my internet is shocking?

Once again Haylen I am not even asking u. I am questioning Bump to y he would think u wouldn't kill them.

I call it as I see it. If someone says something that I see as scummy or want to question, then I'm going to ask about it regardless of whether it's aimed at me or not. That's how mafia works, otherwise you get players sat around doing nothing.

I am just asking questions not accusing anyone, but the fact that u got so defensive from me asking Bump a question, though it is about u, to see his response is very scummy to me.

Actually, it's scummy that you're insinuating scumhunting is scummy.

WOAH WOAH WOAH, Just realised something. Bare with me here.

of course clearly u ppl didn't think he was town

SCUMSLIP!!! She's saying that the people on the wagon

clearly didn't think he was town

. Insinuating that everybody on the wagon was town because they honestly believed him to be scum. She was the only one not on the wagon, therefore she has to be scum.

Vote Sxybeast

Town victory on a plate

[Haylen]

First, indeed it does!

Second, it's pretty obvious but ok. She's saying that he was lynched by people who clearly believed he was scum, which insinuated that everybody on that wagon believed he was scum. If that was the case, then Sxybeast has to be scum because she was the only one NOT on that wagon. If she wasn't scum, she would have said someone along the lines of 'one of you pushed for his lynch knowing that he was town, the rest of you clearly believed he was scum.' not 'you people clearly believed he was scum.'

Explained better?

Third, hypocrite *slaps own wrist* bad hayl making jokes about illnesses. Bad bad hayl.

[Haylen]

Zach didn't let me post my new catch phrase. Oh well, another time another game.

I would have called Vittorio out as being scummy regardless of my alignment by the way. With Sxybeast, I was just tearing holes in everything that could have holes teared in them. Oh, and I really was pretty ill throughout the game, I just thought I could use it to my advantage with a powerrole claim.

That was actually a really difficult game for me. I've never lost my only scumbuddy so early in the game, so I literally just had to get into my SK thought process. Woot, I won as SK again! I did notice DP's breadcrumb when I said I did, but I decided I wanted to use him to set Sxybeast up. I was basically just setting her up from the start. But you're right, it was too good a setup ._.

EDIT: Aww, Zach remembered I prefer pepsi to coke <3

[Haylen]

I really do tunnel as town, would you like links?

If you want to blame anyone for your loss, blame the mafia, otherwise the game quickly becomes unfun and everybody yells at each other.

[Haylen]

I have a link for you guys, it's helpful, let me find it.

EDIT: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... e_At_Mafia <-- here you go.

[Haylen]

Actually Otolia, I really thought the (a) was at the beginning of the line, it was when I typed it out I didn't want pity, I was providing an explanation as to why I might not be around as any player would do.

I delibrately took a lot of risks this game just so I could set everybody up. If you look at my town play in other games it is really sloppy, if you had gone and read my town games you would have seen the one clue that would have got alarm bells ringing. The only difference in my meta is that as town, I can't control my emotions. That's why I asked if you wanted links rather than posting them myself. I've tried and I can't be emotional as scum or detached as town I tunnel very heavily as town and it has caught me scum quite often.

[Haylen]

So did you really had asthma or not?

The only thing I lied about in the game was being Doc. Everything else I said was true.

Was the gapoc slip planned from the start?

Nope!

What are mafia's reasons for the night kills?

Night One: I wanted to kill a red herring, plus somebody who DP was likely to investigate just to waste an investigation.

Night Two: I killed DP at that moment in order to set Sxybeast up. Females tend to have very good guts in this game thus I thought she might bring up having a gut on power roles and I was correct. I also know that guts develop throughout the game and it's unlikely she'd have had it on day one.

Night Three: Stefunny was the most protown, as the doc, I would have protected her.

Also, what made you decide to claim doc when you do not know if anyone else had that role?

Hehe. It's funny you're still believing in that. There's 4 possible setups in the game. Both me and Gapoc were goons showing that there was either a cop or a doc in the setup not both. But to claim doc, I would have to put the roleblocker in there somewhere or it wouldn't make sense if anybody looked at the mods first few pages. So by the time I'd spotted DP's breadcrumb, I already knew I could roleclaim Doc in the future.