Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[LlamaFluff]

Vote furcolow

RQS stage is scummy, I refuse to answer your questions. I seriously would like to see a furcolow wagon.

NO ONE ELSE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

All the "slips" are fabrications of peoples imaginations

[LlamaFluff]

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

[LlamaFluff]

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

However, I don't get why it's bad to answer these questions? The answers put some information out on the table, which can be cross-referenced against later in the game. I guess I'll withhold mine in case I'm missing something.

There is nothing to be gained by town in the answers to the questions. They will however create quite a bit of noise, and possibly hint at a role or two given their response, if someone answers something that eventually becomes obvious VT doesnt know.

Breaking them down...

1 - Completely irrelevant to the game. Doesnt even add to experience reads much.
2 - This is a great noise creator, and again will add nothing to scumhunting. It also can start to create some case pushing on responses as opposed to actual scumhunting, unlikely with this question, but potential is there.
3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

I still want the furcolow wagon over a PI one. I like what smargret pointed out about jmj too, who also is an acceptable wagon. Conflicted on the PI wagon, have a VI-ish read so am going to abstain on joining it until I get something clearer down. I can see town or scum saying everything she has.

[LlamaFluff]

It's a theme game, here more than elsewhere, people will want to talk about setup and flavor. Especially when setup/flavor has already been strongly hinted at by the mod.

That means its a good thing because...

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

*mind blown*

I sill dont get it, maybe

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

The first two add nothing and likely serve as distractions instead of jumping off points. Past experience only really is something to bring up in newbie games since it has lots of bearing there. The second one is not going to actually help us catch scum either, it would be like professing how much I love strawberry ice cream. Cool fact, but useless. Actually I hate all ice cream, just needed an example.

So scum are furcolow, jmj... maybe scorpion... TMH is obviously town, smarg is town... this game is going to be quick.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

I have no good read on it yet. If I had to guess I would put her as slightly leaning town, but its a shot in the dark more then anything else. As I already said, some of the things she said I can see both town and scum saying when they get flustered. I am fully content to push other people and watch it develop.

[LlamaFluff]

3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. That's valid. Do you think Fur cooked this question up for this purpose or are you reading too much into it?

To an extent it about aggressively shutting down discussion along those lines then anything else. Saying "dont do it" and screaming it while voting him are two different reactions. While I would actually like to see a wagon on furcolow for information reasons, he isnt obviously scum.

[LlamaFluff]

You don't see town-motivation from trying to game the setup?
Tell me this, also: Do you expect I would have collaborated with my scumbuddies, if i had any, before posting?
because I posted immediately.

You dont see how it will help scum more then town? The game is way to closed to try and "game the setup". Moreso then regular games given how ambiguous it is.

Also scum have daytalk? Never knew scum could daytalk...

I am suspicious of LlamaFluff for his black/white reaction to the RQS. Only siths deal in absolutes, kind of thing. The townie reaction, in my opinion, is more along the lines of what Scott Brosius said. He was confused, wishy-washy on it, and then voted me.

Hah... im a very black and white person in reads. Clarity is key. You are seriously arguing that being solid on a reaction is scummier then fence sitting?

I throught it would be more then a few pages before I figured out why you were a policy lynch of so many people.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm a policy lynch because I disagree with you? Thanks for the ad hominem, bro.
Not.

Thanks for the correct representing of what I said bro.
Not.

I am getting annoyed that you are basically OMGUSing what I said because I attacked you with conviction. Other people are apparently not scummy because they sounded very unsure of themselves, while when I say "fur is scum" you say im scum for it. That is what is not making sense, and where the comment came from.

Anyways, I feel like I am always in the dark on MafiaScum as to what the implied setups are. I wasn't sure how closed/open it was, and I wanted to be in the loop

Setups are different from game to game... unless there is a mechanic that begs for a certain role to exist, the only hints tend to come from PRs and role wording. When you start getting into the skinny of the setup early, its very easy to tell who has inside role information and who doesnt, both scum and town PRs have some.

You also ignored my comment on you apparently having daytalk. Flat out you say that you posted immediately instead of confiring with your partners, which would mean that scum has daytalk to be able to confer, yet... I cant remember anything saying scum has daytalk.

[LlamaFluff]

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

So how many games have you played where scum had daytalk? I have played for close to three years and can probably count the ones I have on one hand, most of those were nightless/deep south games. Have you played in any large themes before?

Also you are saying that you would have not even posted anything until someone told you to as scum?

[LlamaFluff]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Actually this makes Fur amazingly likely to be town since scum would have known this, and probably pointed it out instead of saying "I just assumed scum have (full) daytalk"

unvote
Vote jmj

[LlamaFluff]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Woah, missed this.

This makes furculow look bad. Very bad.

vote: furculow

As I said, just the opposite actually. Furcolow responded like he expected scum to be able to daytalk the entire game, the mod post suggests that scum actually dont have daychat, which is not what furcolow said.

[LlamaFluff]

As I said, just the opposite actually. Furcolow responded like he expected scum to be able to daytalk the entire game, the mod post suggests that scum actually dont have daychat, which is not what furcolow said.

Furc said that by talking before being coached by daytalking scum he was proved as town. Given that scum could daytalk, even just temporarily, it seems like something scum would be more likely to come up with than town that knew nothing about daytalking.

It makes a lot more sense for him to say that if he was scum and truly believed he could "prove" himself town by doing it.

I guess I can see it, just not what I would really expect as a scum response in that situation.

[LlamaFluff]

Why the vote on me Llama?

Now, I don't like how DavidParker and PoisonIvy both have started speculating about the set-up on page 1. Also, they both seem to be ignoring the glaringly obvious possible mafia win-con CML posted. However, that isn't enough for me to vote them yet.

Vote: furcolow

no hard feelings about Harry Potter Mafia, right?

As pointed out already, early calling out of DP and PI, yet you never really put pressure on anyone. You more then anything else just note it as something possibly scummy and moving on. This doesnt get picked up later on. What ever happened to those trains of thoughts?

Yeah, I have suspicions, but since its still fairly early, I'm not going to put a serious vote down just yet. Not everyone has posted yet either. I'm going to bed now, and will read everything when I wake up.

First what are your suspicions? Again you are avoiding giving anything in the form of suspicion, almost pawning it off on people not having posted yet. Why are a few people not having checked in something mean that you shouldnt post a case on anyone, or at least concise reads?

[LlamaFluff]

I can tell this is going to be a frustrating game.

Good wagons: jmj, rat, gonno with a remainder of Thad
Bad wagons: people who are being wagoned.

New scummiest quote in the game award goes to this gem:

the last time i saw someone do this they turned out to be scum. im not sayin', im just sayin'...

I dont really love a Thad wagon, but its a perfectly acceptable spot to throw up a wagon, especially compared to PI and GW ones which I think are both on town. Jmj, rat or gonno I would be estatic if wagons showed up on right now.

[LlamaFluff]

It's really just laughable to me that I was even wagonned for RQS whatsoever. If anything, the town should thank me. RVS is a distraction.

Incorrect, RQS starts more wagons based of differences in theory as opposed to any sort of a tell for the most part. RVS is a clean way to get into the game that scum cant gain anything from. RQS is scummy (at best anti-town) as it creates noise and creates non-game based suspicions. Given reactions this game, most people agree with me on that one.

Anyone up for an aggressively awesome wagon on anyone I pointed out?

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

Vote rat

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

Vote rat

A "boatload of towntells"?
Can you point them out to me?

Just about all of his early posts.

They may be flavor speculation like people are saying, but this is the good type. He is shutting down people pushing on PI who really dont get the complexity of what the Cold War really was. It was not only soviets/americans, and depending on your political viewpoints, people may have different views on who was good and bad.

While there isnt that much scumhunting from GW, just about all of his points are deadon for what town should be thinking flavor and playwise this game.

[LlamaFluff]

It feels like he is just dismissing something that could be important. The town reaction would be unsure in this scenario, whereas he is sure of PoisonIvy's alignment here.

Are we back on the "confidence is a scumtell" page?

If I think PI is town (which I do) im going to say she is town, and not let her be lynched. Also how does that post have anything to do with PI-town since it was me saying GW is town (which I also believe).

[LlamaFluff]

Nah, I just am good with townreads, and will defend them to death if they are getting attacked.

Just to confirm though, confidence is a scumtell to you?

[LlamaFluff]

While there isnt that much scumhunting from GW, just about all of his points are deadon for what town should be thinking flavor and playwise this game.

Something about this seems a little off to me. Does Llama know something about the setup that I don't? Is he defending GW indirectly? Nothing majorly scummy, but I thought I'd point this out all the same.

GW is talking about not locking in anything as scum or town names, and that there are very easily things that simply transcend american and soviet. If you take that into effect, and how you can look at the cold war for some many standpoints, what he is preaching makes perfect sense.

Also im not indrectly defending GW, I am directly defending him. I think he is probably town.

This game can use a rat death, jmj death, gonnano death... maybe a few others. Not liking the road we are headed down.

[LlamaFluff]

This is everything I could find that you've said about me, Llama. Is there any particular

reason

that you think I should die? Like you know I'm town and killing me will help you win, or something?

Herp derp thats a great one!

Its that you really pushed on PI for being very scummy, vet didnt vote for her. You continually just taked about how you dont trust yourself to make right reads, but she is really scummy. All that occured while the wagon was getting built up all around her. When it quieted down, you moved on to other people, apparently all happy with your reads to the extent that you would vote. Something about the way you are moving around with GW-Lowell makes me very uncomfortable too.

@LMP - If I could dayvig anyone right now, it might actually be jmj over rat and ganno. Those three are very close though in scumminess.

[LlamaFluff]

shameless? yes
good vote? also yes

unvote
vote jmj

[LlamaFluff]

@Thad - To just get one thing out of what LMP said answered for sure - Can you explain how your Furc read has progressed?

[LlamaFluff]

Man I love LMP.

Yeah I would love a death of gonnano or Thad.

unvote
Vote Thad

[LlamaFluff]

Thad, jmj, gonnao... make one of them dead, now. This game needs a flip.

[LlamaFluff]

@ llamafluff: I'd like to see more content from you. You seem to be somewhat cruising in this game.

Classes are kicking my ass right now. I have at most 90 min of break from when I wake up to at least 6PM monday through thursday. This game which is just a couple dozen people running around after shiny stuff doesnt make me want to say with it as much. This game is all over the pace enough to need a lynch before it just apathys to death.

[LlamaFluff]

@Feysal - bvoigt already said that. When I called him out on daytalk, furclow responded that scum must have full daytalk, while the response from the mod suggests that night talk was not constant for everyone. The only way I can see fuclow as scum from that is if he is scum with daytalk and there is a mason/neighbor group that can only nighttalk. Furc alignment depends entirely on scum having daytalk. If he was scum with no daytalk, he would have just pointed to "scum could only talk for 24 hours".

[LlamaFluff]

This game still needs a flip as it really is stagnating quite a bit and it would put some life back into it. Plus deadline is coming fast.

[LlamaFluff]

@Everyone

- If you are not voting for one of Thad, Amrum (PI) or moth (jmj) in your next post, explain in depth why all three are beyond a doubt town. This is the point in the game where stuff needs to happen, we have three big wagons and absolutely zero reason for people not to be on one them.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

Hi.

We are not lynching "not voting". Please vote one of the three lynch possibilities or explain why they are all town in your next post.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm still willing to vote Amrun, though -- she hasn't done enough townie things to make up for PI's play.

So do you think Amrum, PIs play removed, is town?

[LlamaFluff]

762 by Feysal is just about the greatest post in the game so far and reitterates why Amrum is town.

Someone please put a bullet in Gonnos head tonight. I will if im a vig.

[LlamaFluff]

I already govenored him so its all good. When I said we needed a lynch I ment a good lynch, not a stupid mislynch.

[LlamaFluff]

haha awesome

786 is the truth

[LlamaFluff]

Actually if one should be rubbing you the wrong way its gonnao again. Jumped on almost purely for flavor after the PR claim then backed off gambit revealed. Feysal is very likely town.

[LlamaFluff]

I will reitterate that regardless of flip gonnao needs a bullet. Not an investigation, not someone to keep an eye on him a bullet.

[LlamaFluff]

@People saying - "Test gov ability" - You do realize that most govenor abilities end the day with no lynch right? Also, not claiming if I am really govenor or not, I do like pulling this stuff to get reactions out of people when I have another role.

Basically, if you are voting amrum over the govenor thing, you should be fully prepared to see a no lynch or him lynched.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote gonnao

I can do this very willingly

[LlamaFluff]

@People saying - "Test gov ability" - You do realize that most govenor abilities end the day with no lynch right? Also, not claiming if I am really govenor or not, I do like pulling this stuff to get reactions out of people when I have another role.

Basically, if you are voting amrum over the govenor thing, you should be fully prepared to see a no lynch or him lynched.

So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.

Cute.

[LlamaFluff]

@ llama: Seriously, you're the one who was too busy to post content because of class work but still had time to come in and complain that their hadn't been a flip yet, then direct everyone to vote for either me, amrum or jmj, and then when it looked like someone

was

going to flip you apparently "governered" him? And you also have the temerity to try and direct a vigkill on gonnano as well?!

Yeah, I defended someone im pretty sure is town and reaction fished in one move when my prefered lynches fell thorough. Yes I am trying to direct the vig kill to scum too, and now seeing if I can get him lynched instead.

[LlamaFluff]

Wait, Llama, you have a Vig kill as well? Are you a JOAT of some sort?

I dont have multiple abilities. Also I already said (or at least heavily implied) that the govenor ability was a reaction fish that got overshadowed by another reaction fish.

[LlamaFluff]

Why would you derail the wagon though? She's got a scum-sounding role and a scum-sounding ability. Even if amrum does survive today she is set up for an easy lynch later down the track. It's just terrible play and completely contradicts your earlier assertion that this game needs a flip.
And how are you SO sure amrum is town in spite of everything? I don't buy it.

Ive been saying PI is town since around page five and still believe it, so yeah im going to derail a wagon on someone I think is town. That lynch would only be preferable to my strong town reads and no lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: If you think we could seriously orchestrate a gonanno lynch before deadline, I'll participate. But I think ThAd is much better.

Im just about the reverse. I would rather see a gonnao lynch after all this went down, but would move back to Thad to get a lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok, so why gonnano is scum. Early he did a lot of interesting jumping around regarding the PI slot. Votes her early then jumps off it seeming uncertain

Judging by the posts that PoisonIvy has made, I find her to be scummy. Period. However, I have frequently been wrong when I thought that about a player -- and I've seen super fast wagons lynch townies instead of scum much more frequently. Basically what I'm trying to do in this case is to not let my pet reads blind me to the fact that the PI wagon is behaving in a way that I have mostly seen with scum wagons.

Goes between calling PI scum but wagon looks town

To clarify a minor point, I didn't unvote because the wagon got big, but because the wagon got big so quickly that PoisonIvy didn't really have a chance to respond, making me think that at least some of the people on that wagon aren't quite as worried about the actual issues as just pushing through a lynch.

To let haven unvoted PI actually respond since she was getting wagoned too fast. Interesting point here is that he seems to say that PI is being wagoned by town but never actually does any hunting to figure out who the scum on the wagon is. Also interesting is that he is right back where he started.

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

Then we get a very nice post of "I want to wagon Thad, someone give me a reason to".

Not liking gonnano's response too well. It seems like scum waiting for a wagon, just like GW.

You mean a wagon like the PI wagon? or the Furcolow wagon? or the rat wagon that's starting now? If I were just waiting for a wagon, don't you think I would have found one by now?

This response just bugs me as it sort of dodges the point by providing some examples. I think gonnao was just waiting for a Thad wagon given the last quote, and had talked himself out of the PI wagon.

One thing that is also odd in reading back is the relationship between gonnao and furcolow, it reads a lot like someone who is just trying to keep a player in check with a lot of sniping "dont be an idiot" comments. Something to possibly look into if one of them flips scum

Going to get back for studying for the rest of my midterms now. This is just a start. Other huge part is his reaction to the claim though.

[LlamaFluff]

@AmRun, with Llama trying to halt your wagon the way he did I'm pretty sure you're a scumpair. And as scummy as your predecessor was, I'd rather go to the root of the problem (i.e. Llama for his behavior).

So your entire case on me is that I am stopping the wagon on someone who you think is scum, or is it just stopping a lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

No. It's more about the means you used.

So faking a govenor ability is scummy?

Will get to gonnao stuff later.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: What's your take on bvoigt?

Townish. He has moved around a lot in my reads, and is reading town right now but have quite a few reservations about him compared to my solid town reads.

unvote
Vote Thad

Splitting the wagons between scummy and scummish while letting town read get the entire counter-wagon isnt a good move really. I should be able to get all caught up friday. I had a midterm yesterday, another in 30 mintues and two more tomorrow. So friday expect something tying everything together.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

Im just sitting here being twitchy over just about the entire game right now. I think I need to reevaluate quite a few things because pieces dont even come close to fitting together.

[LlamaFluff]

What is that even meant to mean llama? "pieces don't fit together".

I mean my reads dont really work to well outside of theory. When I start applying them to behavior and relating them to eachother, they start falling apart fairly rapidly. My reads in isolation are fine, but dont agree with eachother too well. Its something that I have noticed over many games means that they are more likely then not wrong. Amrun wagon being half strong town half scum reads is what is sending me into the most fits right now. Really trying to judge what is happening there.

gonnao I just a town vibe of in one of his last posts so im not going to vote there quite yet, need to think a little more first. Lucky for me after my lab later today im essentially done with classes until tuesday.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm still not liking Llama faking a governor ability. I'd expect it from Battle Mage Town but that's about it.

You still never explained why it was bad, just that you didnt like it. Lets say we lynch Amrun and he flips town, was it bad then?

[LlamaFluff]

Can you explain to me why fake claiming a governor ability is an acceptable thing to do?

It stops a lynch on a town read and it might either

1) Have scum not RB me if I have a PR
2) Have scum kill me if I am VT

I will do just about anything I can to stop town from being lynched, which is exactly what I am doing. Also I fail to see how fakeclaiming an ability to save town if a "terrible" thing as you say. You also continue to overlook the fact that I just have a town read on someone no one else has a town read on and am freaking out trying to defend them.

Dont replace out

[LlamaFluff]

And I'm questioning him faking the ability. If we had a governor couldn't his faking the ability draw the governor out to challenge him? It's reckless play at the best.

No one would be reckless enough to counter something like that if its 100% proveable. Its like if you fake a daykill, a real dayvig isnt going to just counter it out of nowhere as its going to be proven by the next modscene.

I am just sure enough that Amrun is town to throw out that action. You seem to be arguing from the standpoint that Amrun is town a bit at this point, so how as scum does it benifit me to fake a governor ability of Amrun known well that its not going to draw out any other claim or anything of the sort?

[LlamaFluff]

GUYS WE ARE LYNCHING CLAIMED SCUM BUNNY NOW

My PM doesn't explicitly state whether or not there are town aligned players of different nationalities

, either. Moreover, I don't see why other role PMs should be any different since the rules regarding nationality and alignment are in the first post, or so, and they are clearly different concepts - something David doesn't seem to quite grasp, by his use of 'probably'. My feeling then, is that David is bullshitting in grand style.

@Amrun: Sorry I'm not good with history x-x.

My person is not of American or Soviet nationality

, I have no favor to back it up though. The favor I do have, anyone could have in their pm.

Let see.... JVW was replaced by fuzzy... who was replaced by bunny.

So bunny is "other" nationality, whos predicesors role specifically states is not told if they exist. I smell slip

Vote bunnylover

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: Can I call you furry =/?
Yeah I guess JulienWolve is my first person who was supposed to play?
My Pm does not state, "These nationality are town, these are the scum nationality." Thats the only sense I can make out of that post.

You can call me that but I may miss some stuff... that alt is retired anyhow. I saw the first post as a american/soviet claim which doesnt match up with the later claim.

Just a question. Why do you bring this up when my predecessor (Fuzzy) said the same thing I did in his one post?

I actually never realized fuzzy posted, I thought he replaced and flaked without posting.

Would it be better if I named claimed/nationality claimed now?

No, let me think about this overnight first.

[LlamaFluff]

I need to think about the semi-drunk slip I found today too... this game is taxing. I dont think LMP should be basing his vote off where DP is since he will have to explain why he is saying Thad is town eventually, and trying to make that move is probably from town himself instead of scum info.

[LlamaFluff]

This is the most schizoid game I have ever seen.

QFT. Bunny is still an awful wagon. gonanno is still scum. DP is still scum. ThAd is probably still scum.

DP and Thad get to explain there stuff later, if its what I think it is, they may have done slight town tells with that little manuver.

Also yes gonnao is still scummy, but you do realized he just tried to shift the wagon off Bunny onto Amrun with the intent of lynching the other if one flips town.

[LlamaFluff]

If you're referring to the reasons that I gave as to why Che would be the one to be town if either of you were, I tried to make it clear that I don't think either of you are town. The reasons were to decide which scum claim to lynch first.

So why are you voting the wrong person? If you think both claims are scum, which one is more dangerous to town? The one who will remove a vote for a day or the roleblocker? Answer is roleblocker, it can shutdown a town power role. If Amrun is town, any power still gets to use it, AND they can still contribute during the day.

[LlamaFluff]

So why are you voting the wrong person? If you think both claims are scum, which one is more dangerous to town? The one who will remove a vote for a day or the roleblocker? Answer is roleblocker, it can shutdown a town power role. If Amrun is town, any power still gets to use it, AND they can still contribute during the day.

That's a way of looking at it that I hadn't thought of earlier -- I'll have to think about it some more. But I think you're overstating the danger of a roleblocker. It can stop a town PR, but only if the RB knows who has the PR. At this point, Che would be just as likely to block a VT or even American scum as he would be to block a town PR. Amrun's power would be a small but important advantage for the mafia, and it has very predictable results.

This is understating the power...
Also two scum groups and American scum?

[LlamaFluff]

Scum killed vocal people and then everyone lurked. Town threw this one away just as much as scum earned it (not to downplay scum win there).

Claimed vig lynch was crazy though. I mean, just no lynch right out of the gate and you are good to go.