Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[LlamaGod]

Bolded me (except the vote agar at the end, that's his).

I'll start off by commenting on the new Ross wagon as LlamaGod asked. I agree that it is unlikely that someone would lie about seeing another person online, so I am going to say that either he made a mistake or is telling the truth. I think neither of these options tells us anything about his alignment. While it's true that scum would like to hide behind "but we caught him lying, so we had to vote him," townies could also use this reason to vote someone while scum just sit by and watch. Anyway, I'm going with null on the incident in general.

Okay, so you think RW is null after that incident and that voting him is a null tell

If there is anything else anyone wouldd like me to comment on, please ask.

Here are some people who caught my eye.

Agar: puts Mute at L-2 for quoting an IC, and in this post there is a bit of spaghetti flinging (accusing Mute of pseudo IC'ing and a scumbag freaking out, I think that since Mute is fairly new, his "mute is over reacting because he is aware of the sincerity of the pressure on him" argument is unreasonable). There's some protown fluff. He says that there is a "major inconsistency" in the RossWilliam's, I saw dizzle online argument, but never says what that inconsistency is. I think this is him using an incredibly exaggerated argument to cast doubt on Ross's argument.

"OH WAIT I NEED TO VOTE AGAR SO JERBS DOESN'T GET LYNCHED SO I'M GOING TO USE SOMETHING I JUST SAID WAS NULL TO JUSTIFY A VOTE!"

Ellibereth: I don't like the no vote at the start of the game. I see it as avoiding conflict. He presents a false dilemma and points it out. He also posts a lot of fluff.

I think Mute's been pretty scummy because of the no lynch vote at the start of the game, unvoting under pressure, pro-town banter, the L-1 vote. I also don't like the mutual unvote between Rob and Mute.

pappums rat: I don't like how he got on to the Mute wagon at the start of the game. I can't see how he couldn't have considered getting on the wagon, so the way he chose not to and then changed his mind at the request of Tasky feels unnatural. I don't like the unvote of Mute when rain enters the game.

RobCapone: He's been guilty of "showing up when his name is called," he's made some pro-town banter. However, his attacks on Agar and Ellibereth show active scum hunting.

RossWilliam: Fluff posting at the start of the game and what felt like playing dumb. I think the fact that he unvoted Dizzle makes his attack on Dizzle seem insincere.

You just said you thought this incident was null...

At the moment, I don't think Ellibereth, Pappums Rat or Rob is scummy enough to be lynched, but I wouldn't object to lynching mute. I'd be surprised if there wasn't one scum in RossWilliams and Agar, and I think Agar is scummier.

"I want to lynch RW tomorrow after Agar flips town today!"

Vote Agar

[Zdenek]

Where does "already knows Rob's alignment" come from??

It's in contrast to you saying that I am arguing that you thought Rob was town.

and the absurdity of accusing me of being a "read-copying-scum," (I've never heard of such a thing, unless you mean sheeping which I clearly have not been doing)

Here is an example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
nopointactingup is scum, who I don't think I would say is sheeping, but who makes sure that he is in pretty close agreement with Simenon, a TP, for the entire game.

My post where I vote Rob after rereading Tasky's post literally comes the minute after Empking decides to flip his townread on Rob to a scumread.

This is not a contradiction to my argument. You could have easily had the response prepared in advance (and been grateful to be able to use it quickly), considering that it was in agreement with your earlier reads.

Fails to mention Jerbs in his "I just got here this is what I think" post when Jerbs was a primary lynch candidate.

At the time I entered the game, Jerbs had three votes on him, and was hardly a primary lynch candidate. He was only a primary lynch candidate after Agar was killed. Moreover there wasn't much to comment on.

All he says during the Jerbs wagon->lynch is essentially that "if the scum made the daykill then Jerbs is probably town."

I was asking VP about his reasoning about the Agar kill, which I found completely bizarre, and that statement is taken out of context. Note I never suggested that scum made the day-kill.

As far as the discussion about my first post is concerned. I said that I am going with null on the incident

in general

, meaning that independent of the details, I don't think such and incident says anything about the player's alignments; however, I think some of the particular details are important though. I was concerned about Ross because of his lack of interaction with Agar, who was pushing for his lynch.

[Tasky]

I think this can be a good idea:

unvote, vote Zdenek

[Zachrulez]

4th vote count of day 2:

Zdenek - 4 (Robcapone, Empking, Llamagod, Tasky)
Robcapone - 1 (Vigilante Ventrioquist)
Llamagod - 1 (Zdenek)
Ellibereth - 1 (Rain)
Rosswilliam - 1 (Ellibereth)

Not voting: 2 (Rosswilliam, Pappums rat)

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch

Still looking for a Vigilante Ventrioquist replacement.

Day 1 will end no later than Sunday Jan 30th at 5pm CST

[RobCapone]

@ mod, any word From Ross?

[LlamaGod]

Bolded me again.

Where does "already knows Rob's alignment" come from??

It's in contrast to you saying that I am arguing that you thought Rob was town.

I still don't understand.

and the absurdity of accusing me of being a "read-copying-scum," (I've never heard of such a thing, unless you mean sheeping which I clearly have not been doing)

Here is an example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
nopointactingup is scum, who I don't think I would say is sheeping, but who makes sure that he is in pretty close agreement with Simenon, a TP, for the entire game.

My post where I vote Rob after rereading Tasky's post literally comes the minute after Empking decides to flip his townread on Rob to a scumread.

This is not a contradiction to my argument. You could have easily had the response prepared in advance (and been grateful to be able to use it quickly), considering that it was in agreement with your earlier reads.

HAHAHA! I actually laughed out loud at this. You are now accusing me of being scum preparing differing statements in advance so that I can agree with a particular townie as necessary. WHAT POSSIBLE PURPOSE WOULD THIS SERVE???

Fails to mention Jerbs in his "I just got here this is what I think" post when Jerbs was a primary lynch candidate.

At the time I entered the game, Jerbs had three votes on him, and was hardly a primary lynch candidate. He was only a primary lynch candidate after Agar was killed. Moreover there wasn't much to comment on.

Three was the second most. Agar only had one vote at the time of your post, so Jerbs was most certainly a primary lynch candidate with a growing wagon. I had also just called for a Pappums/Agar/Jerbs lynch and requested comments on the 3. Jerbs had also made some pretty scumjuicy posts and several players had made cases on him.

All he says during the Jerbs wagon->lynch is essentially that "if the scum made the daykill then Jerbs is probably town."

I was asking VP about his reasoning about the Agar kill, which I found completely bizarre, and that statement is taken out of context. Note I never suggested that scum made the day-kill.

You did not suggest scum made the daykill, but you did essentially make the statement "If you think scum made the daykill then you should think Jerbs is town." You did not give your own opinion on whether Jerbs was scum or on his claim other than to say you found him unremarkable

.

As far as the discussion about my first post is concerned. I said that I am going with null on the incident

in general

, meaning that independent of the details, I don't think such and incident says anything about the player's alignments; however, I think some of the particular details are important though. I was concerned about Ross because of his lack of interaction with Agar, who was pushing for his lynch.

Oh really? Then why didn't you mention this "lack of interaction" then? Saying players of either alignment could be voting Ross and that Ross may or may not have been sincere isn't useful if you're going to go into specifics later.

I am concerned about RW. He seems to have conveniently disappeared. Has he played any other games where a townie got lynched for lurking?

I just looked at my list of reads and Empkings and they actually aren't all that similar in the first place.

[LlamaGod]

By the way Zdenek is at

L-2

, apparently.

[Empking]

I'd like to change my reads to ones that fit what I've seen from being in the game.

Town

Me
Llama
Rob
Tasky
Ross William

Scum:
Zdenek
Pappums

[pappums rat]

empking, why is ross town? also, why did you leave off rain and ellibereth?

vote zdenek

llamagod wrote:

My post where I vote Rob after rereading Tasky's post literally comes the minute after Empking decides to flip his townread on Rob to a scumread.

zdenek wrote:

This is not a contradiction to my argument.

You could have easily had the response prepared in advance (and been grateful to be able to use it quickly), considering that it was in agreement with your earlier reads.

this is what made me decide to vote zdenek. the bolded words are just ridiculous and sound like flailing scum. zdenek has not been able to quell my suspicions that i have had on him, and his defence of himself just keeps putting him in a deeper hole. he is now at l-1 and i would like him to claim.

[Zachrulez]

@ mod, any word From Ross?

I have to replace him, I'll sort out looking for one tomorrow, I've had a busy week.

[LlamaGod]

Gah, I dislike RW replacing out, maybe he really is scum and I had him read wrong.
Actually, I don't want Zdenek hammering himself to stop the possible dayvig, so I'll

Unvote

I still expect a claim from him though and am only not voting him to eliminate that possibility.

[Empking]

empking, why is ross town?

If I recall correctly its his bandwagon. It strikes me as a bandwagon on a townie.

also, why did you leave off rain and ellibereth?

Null

[RobCapone]

Hope mod finds replacements soon

[Zachrulez]

Locke Lamora replaces for Vigilante Ventriloquist. Please welcome him to the game!

[Locke Lamora]

Hi all, who's scum?

[Empking]

Zdenek.

[Rain]

moar ellibereth votes imo

[RobCapone]

Haven't seen anything that makes him a better candidate over zde

[Ellibereth]

Haven't seen anything that makes him a better candidate over zde

What about my lack of postage?

[Ellibereth]

I dislike RW replacing out

He hasn't posted in his other game(s?) too from my search.

...and why am i still the only one paranoid over the Ross-Dizzle "saw your name" thing from the day before...both original players are gone noow butttt.

TASKY, WHY THE CHANGE OF PLAYSTYLE SO MUCH SINCE THE LAST TIME WE MET?

I'll support Zdene claim-post Ross replacement showing up.

[RobCapone]

Haven't seen anything that makes him a better candidate over zde

What about my lack of postage?

That is a good reason but if i did that Tasky and Ross would be better options

[Locke Lamora]

Rob: why are you voting Zdenek instead of Tasky?

[RobCapone]

I have thought about it but nobody else seems to care that his behavior isn't helping town, and Zde is creating a weak case against Llama who I feel has been pro-town plus the whole thing about Tasky and the role PM comment gives him a credibility as a town player

Except one thing he did say, did strike me as odd, I don't think it's much to push right now and not enough to de-rail zde's wagon

[Zdenek]

Anyway, since there is no interest in lynching LG, I'm going to drop this subject after this post, but I still think my concern of him is warranted.

To respond to his last post addressed to me:

I still don't understand. - I don't see how that is possible, and view you asking this question as a scummy attempt to muddy the waters.

HAHAHA! I actually laughed out loud at this. You are now accusing me of being scum preparing differing statements in advance so that I can agree with a particular townie as necessary. WHAT POSSIBLE PURPOSE WOULD THIS SERVE??? - I am not accusing you of preparing differing statements in advance, I am accusing you of having wanted to respond to Tasky's catch, but then not responding to it when EmpKing stated having a scum read on Tasky, and then using that response after EmpKing revised his reads.

this is what made me decide to vote zdenek. the bolded words are just ridiculous and sound like flailing scum. zdenek has not been able to quell my suspicions that i have had on him, and his defence of himself just keeps putting him in a deeper hole. he is now at l-1 and i would like him to claim.

The last time I was called flailing scum, it was by Empking in KGB mafia, which just finished, and it was after I'd pointed out what I thought to be a scum slip and in fact turned out to be an attempt at in game communication between scum, so I don't hold these accusations of flailing in very high regard at the moment. I'm sorry that you disagree with me about LlamaGod, but I think he's scum. At the moment, Ellibereth has said that he wants a claim post Ross' replacement showing up, and if you all still want me to, I'll claim then.

I'll have time to re-read tomorrow.

[RobCapone]

@ rain - I just looked back at your reason for his vote, is there reason why you just focused on Elli for his actions when Pappums and Tasky have basically been guilty of the same things.

This actually prompted me to go back and re-read and while I disgaree with his case on llama, atleast he is making one

I just hate that this game is at a stand still right now