Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

I'll just do my usual when replacing in and

Unvote

Hello everyone, glad to be here! Looks like a fun town. Lets lynch Elliberet for posting random giggles and unhelpful posts and shit. Is he the largest wagon yet? I see his name in the players list, I assume it's going to be moderately high on the lynch list. Then again, that's Elli's best talent as town or scum - staying scummy enough that he rarely rises to the top of the NK or Lynch list, making him the world's best home of lurking scum and power roles. Also a disturbingly good scumcatcher.

[GreyICE]

Oh hells, I already know who I want to lynch, and I haven't read anything besides votecounts. Let me catch up here and post some solid analysis, but based on vote counts, unless something really, really, really surprising is contained in the in-thread posts, there's one person we HAVE to kill.

[GreyICE]

Go for it Elli! It will take me a while to put this together.

One hint: it's not the biggest train. If someone hammers now, there will be RAEG.

[GreyICE]

Okay, lets play a little game. We're going to follow a single name around the vote count. I'm going to bold it. Around it I shall color the names of the people whose alignments I know. I haven't read the bolded name's posts. I haven't read jenks' posts. I will put a line of equals (=) signs after I have done this, go and read posts, and then post the final wall.

I suppose I will have to use blue for confirmed town (goddamn it mods, stop choosing green and red, they are classic town/scum colors)

Now outside RVS:

Rosswilliam - 4 (Tasky, Vigilante Ventrioquist,

Jerbs

,

Pappums rat

)
Robcapone- 3 (Ellibereth, Guderian,

VP Baltar

)

Someone has to join before and after, right?

Mute - 4 (

AGar

, Llamagod, Rosswilliam, Robcapone)
Rosswilliam - 3 (Vigilante Ventrioquist,

Jerbs

,

Pappums rat

)
Robcapone- 3 (Ellibereth,

VP Baltar

, Tasky)

Mute - 4 (

AGar

, Llamagod, Rosswilliam,

Pappums rat

)
Robcapone- 4 (Ellibereth,

VP Baltar

, Tasky, Vigilante Ventrioquist)

Mute - 4 (

AGar

, Llamagod, Rosswilliam,

Pappums rat

)
Robcapone- 3 (Ellibereth, Tasky, Vigilante Ventrioquist)
Elibereth [

Hey Elli, mod can't spell your name lolz. must mean you're not an important role in this game, right?

] - 2 (Robcapone,

Jerbs

)

Dizzle train don't understand here, must be in game. Jenks hops on. RAT JUMPS OFF HIS TRAIN. Dun wanna be on a town train for long?

Rosswilliam - 4 (Robcapone, AGar,

Jerbs

,

Pappums rat

)
Jerbs - 3 (Tasky, Rain, Llamagod)

Jerbs train forms. From here on out, it gets worse and worse.

AGar

- 4 (

VP Baltar

, Zdenek,

Jerbs

, Robcapone)
Jerbs - 3 (Tasky, Rain, Llamagod)

AGar train forms. Day vig kills Agar for some reason. FFS day vig, unless you're multishot (multishot day vig, sure, that's a reasonable role for the town to get) what a great use of your shot.

Jerbs - 5 (Tasky, Rain, Llamagod, Guderian,

Pappums rat

)
Pappums rat - 2 (Vigilante Ventrioquist,

Jerbs

)

Jerbs lynch seems CERTAIN. Rat jumps on board. Jerbs, despite voting with Rat all over the place and never voting for him before, SUDDENLY votes Rat.

NICE SCUM DISTANCE

Jerbs - 7 (Tasky, Rain, Llamagod, Guderian, Pappums rat, VP Baltar, Vigilante Ventrioquist)
Pappums rat - 1 (

Jerbs

)

THE LAST GODDAMN VOTE ON THE TRAIN.

Zdenek - 3 (

Pappums rat

, Rain, Robcapone)
Robcapone - 1 (Tasky)

Drizzle train starts. Strong feelings, rat?

3rd votecount:

Zdenek - 3 (Robcapone, Empking, Llamagod)
Robcapone - 2 (Tasky, Vigilante Ventrioquist)
...

Not voting: 2 (Rosswilliam,

Pappums rat

)

Not really, ship is sinking, lets get off it.

4th count:

Zdenek - 4 (Robcapone, Empking, Llamagod, Tasky)

SHIP IS MOVING AGAIN.

5th count:

Zdenek - 4 (Robcapone, Empking, Tasky,

Pappums rat

)
Robcapone - 1 (Locke Lamora)

And back on!

What. The. Fuck.

That isn't a voting record, that's an invitation to a lynch mob.

==========================================================================================================

Ooh, Jerbs was prolific scum. It's a decent strategy, since we tend to lynch lurkers, but it makes us happy when they write lots so we can see what they say about buddies!
(each mention of rat will get a tally mark next to the post)
(Note: Each FOS will be when he attacks someone. He might say FOS. He might not. He's calling them scum)

ISO #1: Vote Ross, FOS: Rob
ISO #2: Attack Ross
ISO #3: Attack Elli
ISO #4,5: 1 liners
ISO #6: FOS Mute, Dizzle
ISO #7 (I - First Rat mention, in a quote): FOS Mute replacement, Vote Dizzle, FOS Ross
ISO #10: FOS Ross, vote Ross, poke Tasky
ISO #12 (II): Vote Agar (second largest wagon) FOS Rat. Second Rat mention.

Aside:

FOS SCUM VOTE TOWN

No, for reals.

ISO #13: SHIT GOING DOWN DISTANCE DISTANCE DISTANCE VOTE RAT
ISO #15: INSANE CLAIM SHIT SHIT GOING DOWN ATTACK PARTNER



=============================(RAT)=======================================

Just searching for mentions of one of the larger contributers to day 1 here.

ISO #11: First Jerbs quote/mention.

HE VOTES FOR HIM

Wait, what? What the fuck? Why? WHY?
ISO #12: Attack Elli for defending Jerbs. NICE CHAINSAW DEFENSE

Day 2:

ISO #14: Case on me? ATTACK ZDENEK! CHAINSAW DEFENSE
ISO #17: Wait, what? Attacking people for buddying and putting them on

L-2

while FOSing half this fucking town?

SHUT UP SCUM

ISO #18: COMPROMISE LYNCHES? Yes, that's good. Lets lynch any townie, we need to kill most of em to win anyway.
ISO #19: Shit, can't be the last person left on the train, can I? Unvote. I'll play it safe so it doesn't look like I'm attacking town.
ISO #21: BACK TO FIRST EASY LYNCH COME ON GUYS

========================================================================

FUCKING LYNCH FUCKING OBV SCUM NOW

VOTE: Vote: Pappums rat

FUCKING DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE

PEDIT: Elli? IT DIDN'T.

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck, used green. MOD: I suck, and accept my warning/kill. Only thing I'll say, goddamn, PLEASE don't pick that color, I totally forgot. Also I think I used like a darker shade of green, like... I'm not helping.

[GreyICE]

Oh wow...I suck at guessing.

And now I'm curious, who was your guess? Because Rat stands out like a thousand miles when you just view the vote counts in isolation. The hopping, the proximity to Jerbs, the last second vote on him from scum.

The posts match. No mention of eachother despite hopping on and off wagons together, no quotes, nothing until all of a sudden shit gets real for Jerbs, and suddenly Rat wants him dead (but still has time to chainsaw you) and Jerbs has time to attack rat after never mentioning a single post of his except for an offhand quote. Then... day 2. Just... day 2.

Who else even looks half that bad on voting records?

[GreyICE]

Holy shit, Dizzle train makes sense, just read his ISO. What was that?

Zdenek is town though. What the hell, people, don't lynch town, lynch scum. With my scum read on Rat, and really guys, reread his case on Llama in ISO #7, even if you don't agree with it, that is a solid case, there's no way he's acting scummy. Who called that case weak and unbelievable? Rat. And you're lynching him over Rat? That doesn't even make any sense. Are we like in CrazyTown?

This wagon sucks, and everyone on it sucks for pushing it. Except for scum, cannot believe you are this close to lynching a townie with how you are playing. Dizzle was town lurking idiot, he got replaced by an infrequent poster who POSTS GOOD CONTENT SOMETIMES. That's worth a lot.

[GreyICE]

@Mod: Thank god, and v. sorry. Is #00FF00 fine? I like using green for confirmed town, in case you can't tell.

Llama

is not entirely obv town, but he's pretty goddamn close. SHITTY CASE ZDENEK. Dunno if that's a scummy or not (given how many bad cases I've read from Town), but god it makes me want to take back calling him town.

Fucking lets get 5 more votes together and just hammer Rat though. Between the two it's not even close, and fucking how is Zdenek on L-1 while rat coasts?

HEY SOME SCUM QUICKHAMMER ZDENEK TO SAVE BUDDY IT'LL BE REALLY FUNNY WHEN YOU ALL DIE.

EMPKing

is doing nothing except lurking and poking obvtown, this makes me feel good about him. If he had an actual read on some actual scum I'd be worried. Also,

Gudarian

was so obv town it hurts, so he can coast for a bit on that.

Elli

is probably town, although Elli is, as I said, quite impossible to read sometimes. His scumhunting wouldn't be this crap if he was scum though, I think. I'll have to reread, scum-Elli can be a hard read. I'm getting better at it though (probably because I've read about 3 times as many Elli ISOs from old games as I have for anyone else, just trying to get a read on him - it's NOT EASY)

Locke

is replacing into a fairly good slot. I liked VV, good content. Think he was off on some reads, but oh well. No suspicions.

Mute

was scummy.

Rain

isn't. Did we just get a replacement that knows what a successful bus is? I dunno, but I doubt it. AGar was such an easy lynch there, Day Vig could NOT have been anticipated. Didn't even CONSIDER the moronic assassin argument of ScumJerbs Finding Elli scummy is pro-town.

RobCapone

is town. His ISO is like a wall of town towniness. He's like "yo man, I'm town." Also, reasonless voting is awesome and you're wrong about a lot of things, but if he's scum I'm going to eat my hat with ketchup and a side of pickle.

RossWilliams:

He's me. I reach back in time and apologize to Mute for ISO #9, that's the worst OMGUS I've seen in a while.

Tasky:

I do not like him, Sam I am. No, oh no, I do not. That being said, if his goal is to be lurking scum, he's way too flamboyant. I think he's on level. Townies like him make me wish I was serial killer though. Oh, I would just scumhunt while killing off every useless waste of a slot, it would be GLORIOUS. All the townies you just KNOW will never get Night killed so they'll be alive if you hit LyLo...

*Snik* *Snik* *Snik*

I'd probably die by day 3, but it would be TOTALLY WORTH IT. <- this is so getting used as meta to kill me when I actually do draw serial killer.

VP Baltar

:ARGH. First thing in the ENTIRE GAME that makes me suspect Elli is this death. What a weird, weird choice of townies to kill, which would make sense for him (never play WIFOM guessing with NKs against scum Elli). He bought the "Assassin ends day" argument, he bought the AGer train, he ran with the cop claim, gah! I'm almost tempted to check everyone's meta to see whose played with VP Baltar recently, this has to be due to play in other games.

[GreyICE]

@The town:

Rat is right I left votes out. Why? The count didn't significantly change, or it was an obv. pressure wagon. Anyone can see the votes. Read through an ISO of the moderator, look at my case side by side. What important flops did I leave out? None. I mentioned the Drizzle wagon not making any sense, read the thread, it's pressure on a lurker. Totally obvious. The pattern I saw is there.

He is right, he mentioned a compromise vote on Jerbs or Agar. In ISO #10 when those were the only two major wagons and the day was heading towards over.

Other than that, his defense is horseshit.

But if you don't want to play WIFOM, just look at Jerbs' attitude towards Rat. Look at the vote. Look at how he broke down and collapsed in his last few posts before lynch. LOOK AT THE VOTING PATTERN. Jerbs mentions, in a suspicious light, at least 6 people. Why, when bandwagoned, WHY would he possibly vote for Rat? Look how he treats

Dizzle/Zdenek (same slot)

. Look at what he writes about Dizzle:

ISO #6:

On topic:Dizzles been doing nothing. I think mute is being played with by scum. They seem to be tryingto confuse town

ISO #8:

it seems he does

I realized I forgot to announce L-2. my bad

DIZZLE IS AT L-2

I've had bad experiences using "saw X lurker online" as a tell, but if RW is making that up it's a different business entirely. I'll think more about that. Goodnight.

Tomorrow is RL tomorrow not game tomorrow.

1. He's town and making it up
2. He's scum and making it up
3. He's town and telling the truth
4. He's scum and telling the truth

The first point makes absolutely no sense, so thats prob not it.

The 2nd point makes sense because Dizzle would be an easy mislynch target, unless they are scumbuddies in which then it would be bussing/distancing
The 3rd would make sense because he is trying to help town by giving info about dizzle
The 4th point makes sense because dizzle would be an easy mislynch target unless they're buddies, which would then mean bussing/distancing

Look at the treatment of the Dizzle bus. He COULD attack RossWilliams for lying about seeing Dizzle online

hardcore.

He could push that VERY strongly. Certainly Elli and others in the thread were pushing Ross to explain himself there. Instead? HE FENCE SITS. That's how he handles the issue around his scum buddies? The only thing he does is push the weird-ass

option 4

- they're both scum. Yes, way to ride two wagons at once.

Ask yourself -

Drizzle/Zdenek

could be a scumbuddy.

Pappums Rat

could be a scumbuddy. But which makes more sense given Jerbs' behavior?

[GreyICE]

What.

I didn't expect that.

At all.

Let me reread. Jesus.


Also, day vig has multishot?

[GreyICE]

Also

Unvote

What the fuck just happened. Now I need to reread pretty much everything.

[GreyICE]

Two of them bussing Pappums as a secondary behavior? Ugh. That's the theory I'm left with if he's my scumread. But he feels so right. That thing with Jerbs at the end was INSANE except as a last-gasp distancing thing, and his behavior this game has been ABOMINABLE.

[GreyICE]

I think Tasky honestly thought he hammered. Was that to avoid a day vig? Wine in front of me...

[GreyICE]

yeah definitely something isn't right with him but I am also skeptical of you ice because of your player slot, Ross was under fire day 1 by lots of people.

Fuck, go read Ross/Dizzle interaction on page 8 then you tell me, fucking jesus that interaction is driving me insane mostly because of you right now with the WIFOM all over the place.

[GreyICE]

EVERY TIME I REREAD I LIKE LYNCHING RAT! FUCKING WHY WHY WHY IS ZDANEK THE SCUM? IT MAKES RAT NEAR CONFIRMED TOWN! WE HAVE TO BUY A DOUBLE BUS FROM TWO DIFFERENT SCUMBUDDIES TO LYNCH HIM. FUCKING ARGH! GODDAMN IT LET ME LYNCH RAT LOGIC STOP HOLDING ME BACK.

Tacky has added somewhere between jack and shit to this game. He had no idea where his vote was last page, obviously. He's not a terrible lynch but is there a better one?

Ugh, Ross/Town interaction on page 8 when Ross saw Dizzle online briefly is weird. Rob was casting doubt on it as hard as he safely could. But it's true what he said about Dizzle's profile. Did Dizzle jump in, see the post, and know to change his settings?

Oh... oh fuck me. Really. I missed that? I turn in my scumhunting license for badge of shame. Fucking fail, ICE. Lynch me as village idiot.

[GreyICE]

Not even making an argument, I'm such a fucking failure for missing this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2724728
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2733408
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2733598

Ooph.

And page 8.

Not feeling happy right now.

[GreyICE]

Vote: RobCapone

[GreyICE]

No, no fuck it, that wasn't a scumslip and he's still scum.

unvote

Vote: Pappums Rat

[GreyICE]

On Ross, I simply refer you to the interaction between Ross, Ron, and Drizzle's presence/absence in the thread back on page 8.

The one person who suggested that Ross and Drizzle could be scum together was Jerbs.

Actually, still don't like Ron for that one. GODDAMN IT RAT YOU'RE SO SCUMMY THOUGH AND YOU NEVER TRIED HARD TO GET HIM LYNCHED. YOU UNVOTED AFTER LIKE A DAY AND A HALF AND THEN WENT AFTER RON THEN WANDERED OFF THEN ONLY REVOTED WHEN THE WAGON ON HIM WAS LOOKING LIKE A FREIGHT TRANE GAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[GreyICE]

By the way Pappums had occurred to me as a possible doublebusser before, and that vote analysis looks pretty good, so he's definitely getting further scrutiny. So maybe (@GreyIce) we were both right.

Oh I'd buy it. But before you do that analysis, two things that are slowly eroding my sanity.

First is this post by Tasky.

2. Nobody made a convincing case on Jerbs, you can go back and look at my history and I do not normally just vote for somebody without a valid reason and

I still don't see one even after his lynch

and I know he is scum, he had me fooled.

The biggest issue I had with it was the whole speculation of the day kill by VP and than how he hopped on the Jaerbs wagon late, I was so sure he was trying to

Bus his buddy

, I try not to rely on speculation very much and that is basically what the Jerbs wagon came from.

hahahahaha... (emphasis mine)
please lynch this scum. thank you.

Then go back to page 8 here, and look at what happens when Ross claims Drizzle was online briefly:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2712955

Remember, based on what we know right now with Drizzle/Zdenek being scum, that was almost certainly factually true. My one question is if the mafia gets daytalk, if they do right now Rob is in so much lynch doo it's not even funny. If they don't, Drizzle probably corrected the flaw on his own, it's a moderately well-known feature of this forum.


AND I WANT TO LYNCH RAT. GAH

[GreyICE]

If it was a scumhunting gambit, it was the single shittiest gambit I've seen since that newbie game where that guy claimed doctor for like no reason and managed to out the real doctor, getting himself lynched and the doctor NKed, and I owe Ross a thwack upside the head.

But I don't think it was. I think he saw Drizzle at the bottom of these forums. I think Drizzle changed his settings sometime inbetween him being seen, and the hunting on the thread. It's bizarre, but it's the only possibility. Well, that or the scum have day talk, which would worry me except it's pretty bloody useless at this point.

[GreyICE]

The issue is that Dizzle had a blank last logged in date, which Agar pointed out means he has always had his account set to hidden, so Ross could not have seen him online.

What? No. Check my last login date. It's blank. I'll unhide it as soon as you confirm, then rehide it when you see that. It goes blank as soon as you hide it(how could it not? It defaults to off).

[GreyICE]

Unhidden, logged out logged in, date is there now. Post when you want me to cycle it back to hidden again.

[GreyICE]

Also what's the case on Elli? How hard he pushed the drizzle lynch day 1 or the way he pushed it again day 2? Or his usual posting meta?

[GreyICE]

And now how we doin' ?

[GreyICE]

Shit. That's a mediocre case to kill someone on and without a second thought I'll do it. Without our catchy scum can still win, and I don't give Rat or Rob better than a random.org chance of hitting him. Elli? Yah

[GreyICE]

Nah, ell isn't Agar was nevah an interest of his. Why are we clearin taky again?

[GreyICE]

No am serious tasky at least as bad as ellllllllll.

Also moar rat votes plox. You can all laugh at me if I'm wrong...

[GreyICE]

Okay, reread Elli ISO for last time. Elli focused two people since the page 8 interaction - Ross/Me and Drizzle/zden. His gut and read said Drizzle, Agar's information (such as it was) said Ross. Here is the thing. Based on page 8, when Ross/Me flipped town, Zden was a dead man walking anyway. So we have to buy a scum double bus ANYWAY to buy Elli as the scum.

[GreyICE]

So lets go down the options one by one:

1) Pappums Rat

I THINK I MAY HAVE WRITTEN ONE OR TWO SENTENCES ABOUT THIS.

2) RobCapone

My gut says town, my brain says still could be scum. And... totally could. But I want RAT DEAD.

3) Tasky

Best evidence of being town can't even be discussed. That's a sad, sad case in many respects. Also, vote Rob for t3h lulz? YAH.

4) LL/VV

Why did we read VV as town anyway? Rereading his ISO it's not that impressive. We've let this slide because of more pressing matters.

5) Elli

He's actually scumhunting unlike VV/LL, you're letting too much slide because you don't like his posting style Llama...

6) EMPKing

Gundarian was town, EMP is... EMP. Day-Miller most likely (like a normal miller, except only scum during daytime).

7) Rain

I don't even know how you're down here while you're predescessor is alllllllll the way like at OMFG LYNCH ME. Oh, right, hitting both scum bandwagons, solid arguments, pro-town statements, and interesting reading. Gooooooddd stuff.

8) LlamaGod

I swear if you're scum I won't even be mad. Every post of yours is a joy to read, and I think the only reason you didn't wake up dead is that the scum were Vig hunting.


P.S. Figured out moron Agar's problem, he made himself invisible by using the 'log on as invisible' checkbox rather than using the radio button in the control panel. Which would be a damn stupid reason to lynch him, but there it is. KILL WAS RIGHTEOUS VIG, LYNCH ALL LIARS.

[GreyICE]

Yep, that claim is total suicide for Rat if the other mason counterclaims and explains a lot of the behavior. Wow what a mason pair though. It does explain why your votes look like they do, a bit. Every time you or Agar jumps, the other jumps too, and both of your reasoning to support it was spotty (because you were using the QT, but we couldn't see it). Ugh. Looking back, kind of a bit obvious, but yiyiyi. Overall, this is endgame discussion, obv. Good use of the role now, finally, as it makes you confirmable vanilla town, and a shot on a mason is not a shot on a vig (WIFOM TIME SCUM).

If there's a counterclaim, utterly no reason for the other mason not to, this role is hyper-confirmable, and rat is now

Confirmed Town

until counterclaim, as much as I hate to write that.

Unvote

The next suspect in my list is Rob Capone. You know what? Fuck that noise. I don't feel like voting Rob, so I won't. HAHA motherfuckers, HAHA. Lets all get off the Rob wagon today.

Need to read more, but leaning towards...

Vote: Tasky

Will now settle for Ellibereth as a time lynch if we need to, just because you can never be 100% on Elli, but I doubt, doubt, doubt Elli is scum.

Also, where the fuck is Locke Lamora? VV is nowhere NEAR as town as I first read him, and Locke has contributed horseshit so far.

[GreyICE]

Huh, weird. My townread on VV was because I had ruled out everyone else as the mason...
* goes back to figure out why *
Ah, I thought Rat saying he might "accept a compromise lynch on Jerbs OR Agar" made them not masons together, but if there's no counterclaim he's obviously clear.
Now I need to reread VV.

The grand quandry of Masons. If you start buddying your partner too hard, you both become scum, get run up near lynch, and then either eat a mislynch or a night kill. Rat did a little bit of distancing from Agar... which sadly, came across as a little bit of distancing from Jerbs. The problem was Masons SHOULD have no scum motive of just seeing townies lynched, so Rat should have come out all guns blazing for Jerbs - if Jerbs had been lynched, his buddy was safe, and you can always claim Mason at a later date.

[GreyICE]

And... I don't think Locke is even reading this game. GETTING LESS HAPPY NOW

[GreyICE]

Unvote

Vote: locke

Fuck it I don't like the tasky wagon because of... Yeah. That

Rob is town today, so... Locke...

[GreyICE]

<-.is sheeping
<- wanted one more to see it.
< - baaaaaaaaa

[GreyICE]

Holy shit.

Look who he has Leaning Town. ROSSWILLIAM. I missed that.

Ross was an Agar-confirmed liar until I showed Agar screwed up board settings. A liar as confirmed by confirmed-town. Ellibereth has, against all his instincts and judgment, been trying to kill Ross/Zdenek for pages for exactly that interaction (on the logic that one of the two was scum, which was TRUE). Only reason I think that Ross survived so long was that he just couldn't pull the trigger, well, on tunneling him, because his brain was saying "Ross scum" and his heart was saying "Zdenek... read Drizzle, read Zdenek..." You wanted to kill me for exactly that until I showed it to be a mistake. Every single poster knows:

LYNCH. ALL. LIARS.

What does page 8 look like? Ross-scum pushing an early lynch on Dizzle-flaking-town and when dizzle flips "okay, so he was just a flaker, damn it." I read the interaction that way, and I'm goddamn Ross. With Agar's post and town flip it was nigh-on certain (and I'm surprised Ross is alive).

VV isn't pushing it. Why? As SOON as Ross flips town, Page 8 gets reexamined in an awful whole hurry. Who dies? Zdenek. If he pushes Ross to the limits, Ross gets dayvigged or something, and then Zdenek scum dies. Look how Zdenek treated Ross. Hands off. Hands off someone who accused your predescessor that way? For SCUM? Oh, they were scared of that Ross flip day 2, because of how page 8 would look. Ross was being saved for day 3 where there was enough material to save Zdenek-scum.

I'm rereading with Zdenek as confirmed scum and Pappums as confirmed town, and oh boy they wanted that Ross flip not to happen. I was assuming Pappums was the scum pushing the Ross train, but if it's VV/LL, then there was not a single scum on the wagon of a confirmed liar. Scum paranoia at its best...

ALSO FOLKS REREAD MY FIRST POST AND DON'T VOTE ELLIBERETH! HE DOES THIS AND THERE'S MANY REASONS NOT TO LYNCH HIM WHEN HE'S SCUMHUNTING, AND HE PROVABLY WAS (and this is from the person he was trying to lynch).

[GreyICE]

Locke is the pick over Tasky, read ISOs of both. I WILL hammer one of the two. I will NOT support an Ellibereth wagon at this time.

Also, Zach, Rosswilliam isn't even in the bloody game. That's me Elli is voting for.

[GreyICE]

pr: Tasky was forced into reluctantly bussing but when he found a way out he ran from Zdenek as fast as his fingers could take him. There's nothing else to add to that.

Yes there is:

Dizzle:

I'm starting to think I was a bit too lazy in allowing myself to suspect Dizzle. His post about Mute was certainly awkward, but his lack of posting (especially if he's now disappeared from the site) really doesn't mean much. I wouldn't be particularly enthusiastic about a Dizzle lynch.

Jerbs:

My first thought is that I wouldn't be against this lynch, but I also never looked back to figure out what I didn't like about him. I meant to, but other people looked back first. I would probably be willing to vote him just based on what I've seen though.

Sadly, what was stopping me from suspecting him the first read turns out to be his scum read on... Pappums Rat. Which means nothing, since Rat is conf. town, and an easy mislynch target.

Day 2, he tunneled Rob for basically silly reasons (a grammar problem, and the fact that he bought the insane 'mafia did the kill' theory, which ANY scum would know was false and would be silly to try and support, because it would be proved false on Jerbs flip).

All Locke has done is tunnel Tasky. ALL LOCKE HAS DONE. IS. TUNNEL. TASKY.

Tasky? ISO #22 really tells me that either that's one of the weirder scum gambits I've seen in a nice long time, or he really did try and hammer his supposed partner.

[GreyICE]

But Locke actually did hammer his partner so...?

So, it doesn't read as particularly pro-town to me.

But really, whatever. Lets do this: If Tasky is at L-1, I'll hammer him, I think the arguments against him are perfectly valid, I think Locke is a better lynch.

[GreyICE]

Y U NO LYNCH ELLI?

READ MY FIRST POST RAIN PLZ THEN TELL ME Y ELLI AGAIN. K? ELLI HAS ALSO BEEN SCUMHUNTING.

[GreyICE]

With Tasky, it's more the case that there is so little to analyse and so few links to be drawn. He votes for Jerbs early enough that it's hard to tell much about his alignment from it. His Zdenek vote is backed up about as much as the rest of his votes and after Zdenek has already garnered 3 votes to become the leading wagon, so it's hard to say whether that is a likely bus. I'll expound on my thoughts on the hammer more once Tasky tells us whether it was deliberately fake.

GreyICE: are you serious? I've been in the game for 3 days and made 5 (now 6) posts. How you can construe my contribution as tunneling Tasky is beyond me, but perhaps more to the point, how the hell does it make me the most likely candidate for scum?

Two things. First, tunneling a semi-lurker is not contributing to the town in any way. It's a good way to look like you're scumhunting while lurking.

Second, Rob has plenty to say about the Jerbs wagon, about Agar, about Drizzle/Zdenek. He mentions other people. You just... tunnel Tasky. It's disturbing. It's not productive. There's an enormous wagon going on and you have nothing to say about it? Okay...

@TASKY: ROLE ASSIGNMENTS ARE RANDOM PLEASE STOP ASSIGNING MEANING TO RANDOMNESS, AND DONT TELL US TO OKAY? PRODUCE COMPARISON OF HIS SCUM PLAY/TOWN PLAY OR SHUT UP. THAT IS SO TERRIBLE. THERE IS A REASON I DON'T MIND HAMMERING YOU, YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TOWN ARE PIG FARTS.

SCUMMY

PIG FARTS.

P.S. Mad props for the hammer ploy though Glad that was intentional. Even if you do show a disturbing desire to win by breaking the rules. I'd really have to ask you to play cards with your sleeves rolled up...

[GreyICE]

I'd barely even got into the game. I thought we'd gone to night less than 48 hours after I replaced in. Rob and Tasky were the two players who caught (or in Tasky's case, avoided) my attention when I first read through, so I asked them questions. As we're on the topic, perhaps you can tell me exactly where these productive comments Rob made about Drizzle/Zdenek are hiding.

And maybe

you

can tell

me

why I shouldn't lynch you?

Why were you tunneling Tasky? 48 hours and you read nothing else? No other reads on this entire thread? Suddenly a wagon is forming and you have nigh-on unlimited time for this place.

I have a limited amount of rope. But I can spare some for you.

[GreyICE]

Not interested in finding Rob's productive posts, Locke. I've read this thread, I know what posts are in it. I'm interested in why I shouldn't lynch you. "Because you should lynch Rob instead" is lame. You admit to not having read the thread very well, yet suddenly you know Rob didn't have any productive comments?

I want to hear it, Locke. What is your approach here? What is your thinking on the list VV put together and Llama quoted above you (with Zdenek as the most non-commital thing he could think of for a poster whose play was mediocre at best)?

Why is it better for this town that you end today alive?

[GreyICE]

That last part screams "keep me alive so I can kill 1 more time"

I should say "OMGUS" here, but... eh. This feels right to me.

Rob, I will be poking you tomorrow You live, today

[GreyICE]

I have reasons to believe VV/LL is probably not scum.

Sorry if that was a breadcrumb, but I don't see why you would think this. Also both scums we've lynched thus far were goons so unless two scum remain the last scum probably has power.

Yah. If we have a day vig, a mason pair, and a cop, then... yeah, the last mafia is probably godfather. Otherwise, roleblocker.

4 man scumteam would mean we're nowhere close to out of the woods yet. 9:4, yeah, could happen, with some serious town power, and a dayvig is serious power, used correctly. Ugh. It just seems such an ugly setup. A mislynch, a misvig, a night kill and you're in MyLo? Very fair...

If that's the case the last two are goons or something, but I'd be much happier with a 3 man scumteam with the last one being godfather. Two scumteams seems highly unlikely.

Day serial killer would have no reasons to make the shots he did except extreme WIFOM.

[GreyICE]

ALSO, AS ROSS, CAN I JUST SAY THIS NOW? VOTING FOR ROSS WAS NOT SCUMMY, REREADING I REMAIN SHOCKED THAT THE ROLE IS STILL ALIVE.

IT CAN

ONLY

BE SCUM PARANOIA THAT THE FLIP WOULD COST THEM ZDENEK. I DON'T THINK THEY WERE WILLING TO BUS TWO MEMBERS.

[GreyICE]

Serial killer doesn't even make sense. Why shoot the top two trains? That's ridiculous. There HAS to be people you could assassinate that suspect you, virtually everyone on this thread has been suspected, even LlamaGod (who was suspected by, like... Zdenek, in the least convincing case ever). I guess if we assume Serial Killer we could look at Llama, but I'm just thinking 3 man mafia. Serial killers should almost never use their powers on scum, they should be using their powers on town and trying to get scum lynched.

[GreyICE]

it's pretty obvious who the day killer is unless I am completely off base, at first I thought it was llama by the way he kept talking about it but than after he suggested it could be a SK instead of a vig I realized it wasn't him anymore and found it pretty easy.

I swear unto god if you don't stop role fishing I'm going to fucking lynch you myself. This is such a day 3 discussion.

[GreyICE]

it's pretty obvious who the day killer is unless I am completely off base, at first I thought it was llama by the way he kept talking about it but than after he suggested it could be a SK instead of a vig I realized it wasn't him anymore and found it pretty easy.

I swear unto god if you don't stop role fishing I'm going to fucking lynch you myself. This is such a day 3 discussion.

i am not role fishing and I don't want them to claim, I am 99.99% sure I know who it is is all I am saying

Oh, so your goal is just to tell the scum that if that we miss when we lynch Locke (and I've been wrong before, see: Pappums) they can reread the thread and find the vig, just to show us how clever you are?

Dunno what made us think you were scum with play of this quality.

[GreyICE]

*twitch*

I swear...

[GreyICE]

Sure, lets interrogate Elli day 3, we've been over this stuff with Rob already...

[GreyICE]

You mean you'll claim once you think up a cool role PM?

Who is it who sigged 'it takes 30 seconds to paraphrase a role PM and 3 hours to figure out how a fake role would explain your actions in game?

Just paraphrase whatever the super awesome PR is, I'm sure we can figure out what it does, it's like a bleeding mini-normal.

[GreyICE]

Cool, so your PM says neighbors are conf town?

[GreyICE]

Youir partner is?

No. I want partner to claim it. Him first on role pm wording, partner chimes in after.

[GreyICE]

I do not want any risk of one neighbor dead and just one person telling us role wording.

[GreyICE]

Fine, interests of time let's ID neighbors. As I understand it neighbors are randomly selected so it's a null roll.

[GreyICE]

Emp just hammered. EMP, if he doesn't flip scum, tomorrow is gonna be bad for you...

[GreyICE]

Also man, putting rob as #2 on my scum list when he read so town had SO many bites. That was funny

[GreyICE]

I was leaning town on you toasted the end. If I let up the pressure though I don't see the cracks. And you're so guarded and have so few posts and the lurk. Lurk, flurry post. Another excellent EMP play though

Fwiw don't take it 2 personal pls...

[GreyICE]

I'm lazy. Would anyone mind quoting the RW case for me?

Here, let me:

OH MY GOD! YOU SUCK

Pedit: Locke, totally would have. Sry, seen it before. Don't defend as town, that links on flip. Don't bus with one dead. Start new wagon on town easy target. Of course I did similar, but I can coast on page eight for one day, at least.

[GreyICE]

MOTHERFUCK.

we still had several days left before deadline, wtffffffff.... goddamnit.

i was giving empking kind of a pass because of guderian's ultratownie play, but i think this gives perfect reason to look back into him.

Anyone who is not EMP wanna defend that particular play? Like, ANYONE? Not on the town/scum spectrum. Just on the smart/stupid spectrum.

[GreyICE]

Well thanks! See, that's about the time I would have moved to the Tasky wagon, because it's good interesting content that's relevant, and the sort of thing we WEREN'T seeing in the thread. Again, bussing your partners by fingering Jerbs and mentioning Zdenek is dangerous in a neighbor thread, because sudden about faces are going to get triply scruitenized, and most neighbors are not confirmed town (so there's that niggling doubt). It explains a hell of a lot. Really, one of the two of you could be scumfaking it, but it seems unlikely given the dynamics going on, and the fact that Gud is talking down Mute's OMGUS behavior.

If some fucking moron hadn't fucking hammered. God EMP...

Thanks Locke, and I am sorry about this.

[GreyICE]

Uh, I don't normally play NK WIFOM with scum, but that was a bizarre choice.

I've got a bunch of thoughts, and I'm going to do something crazy. I'm going to hold them back. We need to hear from some people.

[GreyICE]

*cough*

Lets just settle something right now. If you're the town dayvig, you can respond by dayvigging whoever you think is the scummier of Elli or RobCapone.

I think you just gambited, and I like it, but I want that out of the way

[GreyICE]

EBWOP: That was directed at EMP exclusively.

[GreyICE]

If Rob isn't the goddamn vig, waste his ass. The anger he responded to with the Agar instance was screaming "vig defending his shots" but if that ain't it, screw him. I wasted way to much time covering for his scummy ass because I didn't want the big claim.

vote: RobCapone

[GreyICE]

Look, if someone is scared to hammer because of a bomb claim, I vote we use this strategically.

Elli - you've been totally worthless this game. Love ya man, but it's true. Hammer fir the town.

[GreyICE]

Fuck specifics. We vig someone, and have Elliberth hammer. He doesn't, we lynch him. Problems solved.

[GreyICE]

Seriously, let's say rob is telling the truth. This is basically a free second lynch on Elli. Lying? Bye scum. Thus is such a fucking win/win here.

[GreyICE]

Emp can solve problem whenever he wants. Rob just made himself too valuable to vig - assume the vig shoots, we force bomb, bomb lyncher and bomb die. We're in 3 man LyLo with A CONFIRMED TOWNIE. One of you or EMP must survive. Although this raises the bastard mod possibility of day sk. Nah, he'd auotwin 3 man LyLo, that's stupid.

EMP, vig Elli to confirm. Then we p-vote to see who of me, rain, and llama set off the so-called bomb.

[GreyICE]

Nope. We P-vote. Seriously, I am, for all that I know I'm town, not confirmed town. Neither are you, neighbors are neighbors, not masons.

Whoever the town P(seudo)-votes for sets off the bomb. I agree to this 100%, if I am the p-vote choice, I will hammer without question. I think it's perfectly safe, as I'm 90% sure Rob is scum (I left him alive yesterday simply for the 40% chance he was the vig, and the two flips have really narrowed the field, especially with Elli dying).

[GreyICE]

Are we even going to listen to an Elli claim at this point? I mean what's he going to claim, magical fucking hampster man?

[GreyICE]

Also, Rob has been either scum or vig in my book pretty much since Pappums claimed, it's just that I figured the odds of him being Vig were pretty high. I mean who the fuck gets all angry defending vig kills as totally justified? And then that rolefishing interaction, I figured he was trying to play off that the vig was someone else, and doing it poorly, but jesus, he was actually rolefishing...

[GreyICE]

I think Rob just claimed scum at this point. Anyone have an issue with me ending the game?

[GreyICE]

LOL@EMP - that was a brilliant gambit last night then - keep them off any town power that does remain. Also, 2 shot vig... hmm, bomb now much more likely.

[GreyICE]

Okay folks, I'm not waiting for ellibereth to get back from whatever hellhole he's hiding in. If Rob isn't the bomb, this is 5 man pre-LyLo, if he is, then this is MyLo.

Whatever. There's no town motive for this.

Vote: RobCapone

If your scum btw, DON'T make a bomb claim, we're just going to chuck scummy people on you

[GreyICE]

wooooooooo

I was getting worried there when everyone was calling Rob town, but apparently he only needed mild pressure to simply give up. Player of the game goes to Empking.

Yeah, no question on that one, good job EMP, even if I hate that hammer call.

Rob was going to live till day 3 just because I was about 40% certain he was the vig. Rob, why did you get so angry over the Agar kill and defend it? And what was that 'ooh look I figured out the vig' dance we had? I mean seriously, at that point I figured you just realized you'd been sloppy and were covering your tracks, but you have to realize that was scumtastic rolefishing right there.

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE - I was raging at you when you came into the game. You win the honorary scum award.

LOL, love ya too VP.

[GreyICE]

Also, man, the deadthread must have known Pappums was a mason... I bet there was a lot of swearing at me. Most of it deserved

[GreyICE]

I'm probably somewhat biased because I knew everything shortly after I died, but I probably still found you scummy enough to lynch after the Zdenek kill had I been alive.

Okay, I'm so curious. I made the best case I saw in the town. The best case. Rat was vote hopping, ending up on wagons with Jerbs, was attacked at the last second by scum obviously going down, I saw what I saw.

I'm not saying I was perfect, far from it, but scummy enough to lynch?

[GreyICE]

I don't know if I would have lynched you, but I probably would have wanted to run you up so I could see your reaction to it. PRat looked like a lost townie to me though for most of the game. He's exactly the kind of target I expect scum to go after for an easy lynch. Plus after Zde flipped scum, it very much looked like you were trying to get a counter wagon away from him going. Of course, this is all circumstantial in hindsight, but I probably wouldn't have been so friendly toward you at that point.

Fair enough. I don't remember people being overly friendly to me either, until the little RossWilliams/Drizzle interaction was clarified.

I still don't understand how my spot wasn't lynched for that. When a confirmed townie calls you a liar, that's fairly significant.

[GreyICE]

Also: More deadthread/scumthread!

[GreyICE]

I wouldn't say I did a great job of scumhunting. I ran up two townies, got one lynched, and managed to make everyone believe Rob was town for an entire day because I had a suspicion he was the vig.

Not my best showing

[GreyICE]

I really didn't get the LL lynch at all, btw. Here is the Dead QT for those interested.

Blah, in case you're wondering, that's one of my pressure wagons. Locke, you had literally given us nothing to go off of. Nothing. I wanted to see where you sat, so I could go after something more interesting. I've been burned by lurkers too many times in the past to go "oh well he replaced someone pretty town, and now he's lurking, look obvtown lol."

I honestly was about to dismantle the wagon, or do what I could to, when the hammer hit. It's nothing personal, but if at some point you go "oh hai, this wagon is just for pressure because we have no reaaadddsss" then it gets a lot less pointful.

[GreyICE]

Wait, Rob, you had daytalk and didn't coordinate his status change?

NOW I'M CONFUSED.

[GreyICE]

Wow. I am utterly confused. I mean we're sitting here in post game, Ross had no motivation at all to lie, and yet it was hidden when you checked it?

Weeeirrrddddd

Rob, I thought you were the vig because of your defense of the Agar kill honestly. It just seems like such a vig thing to do. "No, the vig made a good shot, we all thought he was scum, etc. etc. etc."

[GreyICE]

Okay, fair enough. That rolefishing though, I've seen that level of behavior twice before, and both times it was on people who were actually the role they were 'fishing' for - they wanted to survive the night. ("ooh boy, wow, that doctor is doing a great job, I wish I could congratulate him" from the doctor, and I forget what the other was, but it was pretty blatant).

[GreyICE]

Eh, fair enough, game is over and all, I'm just really confused I guess

[GreyICE]

Not mine either

I was thinking that I prob should have claimed vig, to hopefully out the vig or not be lynched D1

Well it would have used up a second vig shot...

Really, vigs have the best answers for counterclaims

[GreyICE]

Speaking of which, dayvigging me was actually a pretty smart choice. Yeah, a townie died, and I RAAAAAGED but it also made way for the Jerbs lynch and eventually cleared Pappums.

Well if you'd claimed Mason, it would have cleared you and Pappums when Jerbs flipped scum (unless you guys were the two remaining scum). But yeah, it wasn't a terrible choice overall.

What happened with your end of the Ross drama? The settings work exactly differently than you described, which caused endless confusion.

[GreyICE]

HAHAHAHA. I KNEW IT!!
I was so right about RobCapone all the time.

@scum: why did you choose to kill me?


PS: the mod used BCC's to send the Vanilla role PM's. this means, they were all sent at the exact same time. this means we could have used them to confirm at least 2 vanilla townies, maaybe even three.

Yep. Please never suggest this ever again. Am serious.

[GreyICE]

awesome, gg town. great choice of kills by empking, you are indeed the mvp. also llamagod and greyice did great jobs of scumhunting, we almost certainly wouldnt have won without them. greyice had almost convinced me that i was scum rofl.

BTW, totally stealing that last bit for my quotes page

[GreyICE]

Any thoughts oh great god and moderator zach?

Believe it or not, I thought Jerbs and Rob both did a decent job with a very tough scum role - the active poster. This is why lurkers lurk. This is also, btw, how I've always handled bomb claims near lynch. It's cruel, but amazingly effective - watch candidate #2 get cold feet all of a sudden if he's scum. "Well... I dunno, he seems town to me, that claim is likely..."