Newbie 1052 - Endgame

[Workdawg]

Neither... or rather, the latter in partial.
I don't rule out a possibility you could be town but I won't drop my suspicion on you yet. I want to lynch a slot whose occupants thus far have done little to advance the town. Call it over-aggressive if you must, I stand by that.

Frankly I want to advance the game to D2 so we can start using more than just speculation based on words to find someone to lynch.

...

There's no rush in throwing down the hammer this early in the game. The game will move along at its own pace,

which normally is two weeks or so per day. Please keep this in mind while playing other games, or you will be a fantastic Day 2 prospect lynch. Regardless of Ty's alignment, you have taken away all of the information we can possibily get out of Day 1, and have thus seriously hurt the Town's chances of winning this game...

I understand being anxious and wanting the game to progress. It would do so on it's own. Being in a rush like that is not helpful.

Frankly, I feel that you are scum and were bussing your partner. If Ty turns up mafia that suspicion will be furthered by me. If Ty flips town you will still look scummy for being an eager-beaver.

While I share your level of activity more or less, and the mindset of "waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information," (which, first off, only a flip will give concrete info, everything else is speculation, hunches, educated guesses, and so on) that's no excuse.

[Mute]

Dawg you comparing a time two days into the game, versus about one week from deadline.

=_=

[Workdawg]

But that's an entire week to pick a better target.

[Mute]

Then please, who would make a better target then?

[Workdawg]

I've been trying to figure that out, what have you been doing? Let's have a look:

Since my wagon fell apart... Roughly around ISO #51... through ISO 68 (18 posts)

Posts about the Stels or the Stels/Workdawg team: 3.5 (ISO #57 is only half about this)
Posts about lynching one of the lurkers: 7-ish.
Posts scumhunting anyone else: 0
Posts about other stuff: 8

[Neuky]

Mute & Dawg are like an old married couple..

The last few posts actually had me laughing - you just can't stop yourselves!

(Queue:
Mute: It was his fault
Dawg: No it wasn't
Mute: Yes it was etc etc...)

[Workdawg]

Don't make me turn this thread around young man!

[Neuky]

LOL Dawg!

Anyway, some stats:
Asano234 last posted to say farewell at in Post #308 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:47 am.
This is the last post by a player outside the five of myself, Dawg, Mute, Stels and TP42.
The last post was by Dawg and was Post #331 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:51 pm

That means that there are four players that haven't posted in the last 44 hours.. Ty (getting replaced?), Nacho - prodded but only typed a "d" (FYI - his page says he Last visited: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:18 am), Asano (getting replaced), and veridis (prodded but hasn't picked up so far?)..

@Mod:

Can you update us on what the situation is? Who's getting prodded, who's replacing out/in etc pleez?

I feel that the game is stalling a bit. TP42 and Stels are going back and fro' and the Mute/Dawg thang is still ongoing with Mute now looking at lynching absentees. (Not sure about this as we still have around 5 days, but I'm not seeing it as a scum-tell either in these particular circumstances Dawg.) The fact of the matter is we might run out of time unless Drench allows extra. We should watch this as it would appear that last minute lynches can be a very bad idea.

For my part, unless some new players and posts pop up, I guess tomorrow I'll go back over my reads on the 4 "absentees" and see if I think any of them could be scum sitting back..

[Workdawg]

I think it's a little bit scummy, but what puts me off the most is that he brushes me off pretty much every time I ask him a question. It annoys me A LOT when I'm ignored, so when he does it and it just makes me want to get on his case more; and I'm finding that very hard to resist. It feels scummy to me that he doesn't answer me, or only half answers. If he's town, then he should be willing to answer all my questions, not just brush him off.

If no one else thinks that's scummy though, then I really just need to try harder to drop it I guess.

[Workdawg]

grumble...

EBWOP: The end of that last paragraph should read: "If he's town, then he should be willing to answer all my questions, not just brush

them

off."

[Ty]

Unsure what the replacement situation is, but I offered to remain playing to ensure the game isn't hampered with too many replacements. You may see less of my trademarked walls-of-fun, but I can assure you I will do my best to remain active, especially as the deadline approaches. I should have an update tomorrow night with my thoughts on recent posts (and yes I sure do have some).

[Drench]

This is getting updated soon (soon being within an hour, I guess). It's been quite hectic on my side, to say the least, so apologies. One replacement incoming, also.

[Drench]

The Tenth Vote Count - Extensions and mod lag and votecounts oh my!

theplague42
Neuky
Mute
Workdawg
asano234
veridis
Stels - 3 - Nachomamma8, Ty, theplague42
Ty - 1 - veridis
Nachomamma8

No Lynch

Not Voting - 5 - asano234, Stels, Neuky, Workdawg, Mute

With nine alive, it's five to lynch!

Day One's deadline expires on the

10th

of February at 11:07am AEDST (GMT+11).

Sundy replaces asano234: please welcome him! In addition, as far as I can see, Ty no longer needs replacing. Thank you Ty!

In addition, your deadline has been extended by 48 hours to the 10th of February at 11:07am, AEDST.

[Drench]

And lastly, I'll be sending a mass-prod, juust in case. Only a week left, after all.

[Sundy]

Hey all, I'm replacing in. Will catch up and post by the end of the day...

[Workdawg]

Woot, welcome Sundy, and welcome back Ty!

[Workdawg]

So, Sundy...

What's your experience level with mafia games?
Also, are you a paranoid person?

[Nachomamma8]

I'd love if Mute and Workdawg worked on developing cases on their #2 suspects though because these walls are going overboard and even if one of you is right about the other, there are scumbuddies.

this ^

One of you guys may be right about the other - but consider the possibility that town is tunnelling town..
I've got some time on Sunday, so I'll post tomorrow, something a bit more substantive.

I have.
For now though all my other cases are weak. I'll go-back and read the thread over again and try to ignore the dawg-me back and forth and see what others have said, but Naben having to be replaced for outright deserting the game...

Iuno.

I'm guessing this didn't happen? After all, I haven't seen anything substantive from you concerning anyone but Workdawg yet.

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

I had thought this was suspicious, but I don't think that Stels would communicate so blatantly. Of course, that is subject to WIFOM, and I'm not even going to trying to outguess anyone. Although the "just saying" definitely seems like he's trying very hard to make it appear as SE-talk to a newbie.

Why?

For right now, I think its just newbie-jumpiness and inexperience dealing with reactions to votes. If it was an experienced player, then I would be really suspicious.

In games like this, people are usually recommended to defend themselves and not others, unless the attack is absolutely terrible or scum-motivated. Do you feel Stels's attack was either? If so, why? If not, why did you respond?

The last comment that has people so curious does seem to be extremely specific though, I suppose; though if you take the quote in context it doesn't seem quite as bad...

What do you mean by this?

Possible Scum Pairs- Something I find useful (more useful later on in the game but it’s never too early to start thinking about this) is finding pairs of people that seem to “fit well” together as scum. For example of two players seem to be overly friendly or overly hostile towards one another it’s not bad to make a note and watch for future interaction between the two. The biggest example would be Mute-Workdawg. As I believe Stels stated, I think this was a town vs. town argument due to the intensity and over ridiculousness, however I wouldn’t guarantee that.

What good will thinking of scumpairs without a single flip in game accomplish? The only thing I can see it accomplishing is lending credence to tinfoil hat theories, and making already bad tunneling habits worse. But, if you're going to speculate like this, you might as well provide reasons. Why aren't Stels and I scum together? Why can't I be scum with Workdawg? Why can't Workdawg/Mute be scum with asano/veridis?

Alright, so. Ty's exit-post looks very towny to me. I would imagine (for the most part) that scum would be more inclined to stay in the game as everyone gets to play as scum less often than town. His continued analysis and information-giving is also towny, as scum would definitely want to go out quietly.

These are the types of assumptions that get you burned.

What if Naben's super-late confirming was gaining time to talk with his buddy? Naben disappeared afterward, and my last game (yes, more single game meta-ing) had a scum-slot with a total of three players in it.

This theory shouldn't have made it past the RVS. Even if it's true, it's not a big enough point to push a lynch on.

If Stels is town, I would consider that clearing Workdawg. If he is scum, then I would be suspicious of Workdawg.

Why?

Mute's calming-down-ness has definitely pushed him back towards null tell for me. Townie with some definite tunneling issues. But apparently he can see reason, so I'm happy with that.

Mute backed down immediately after Workdawg did. Does this make him townie for finally backing down, or scum for unvoting at the same time his main aggressor did?

Actually - I may be wrong there, look like its L-2. I'm going to read Stel's defence before making a decision to vote or not. Its past midnight here - so I'll do that tomorrow.

The last post you made stated that your vote would be on Stels if Stels wasn't at L-1. Why didn't you vote when you realized he wasn't at L-1?

*As sort of a general note, buddying is an incredibly weak tell Day 1. It's usually a result of people not wanting to be complete and total assholes when they play mafia, and is usually an alignment-neutral thing. The only time where it is a strong tell this early in the game is if a player is buddying up strong to a person with a reputation onsite.*

Mute & Dawg are like an old married couple..

The last few posts actually had me laughing - you just can't stop yourselves!

(Queue:
Mute: It was his fault
Dawg: No it wasn't
Mute: Yes it was etc etc...)

Still not rethinking that Stels vote, I see... Are you scumbuddies with him or something? If so, promising content on him and then ignoring him immediately afterwards is not a good strategy.

I think it's a little bit scummy, but what puts me off the most is that he brushes me off pretty much every time I ask him a question. It annoys me A LOT when I'm ignored, so when he does it and it just makes me want to get on his case more; and I'm finding that very hard to resist. It feels scummy to me that he doesn't answer me, or only half answers. If he's town, then he should be willing to answer all my questions, not just brush him off.

If no one else thinks that's scummy though, then I really just need to try harder to drop it I guess.

Scum have the same incentive as town to answer questions. Why do you think scum would ignore you in this situation?

[Workdawg]

@Nacho

YAY, you're back!

The last comment that has people so curious does seem to be extremely specific though, I suppose; though if you take the quote in context it doesn't seem quite as bad...

What do you mean by this?

The last part of that post was my explanation. It doesn't really do much, since it's only explaining it from my POV, yeah. I hadn't even considered a power role (which I think is implied by my saying to lie would mean I would claim scum), so it didn't seem bad to me.

I think it's a little bit scummy, but what puts me off the most is that he brushes me off pretty much every time I ask him a question. It annoys me A LOT when I'm ignored, so when he does it and it just makes me want to get on his case more; and I'm finding that very hard to resist. It feels scummy to me that he doesn't answer me, or only half answers. If he's town, then he should be willing to answer all my questions, not just brush him off.

If no one else thinks that's scummy though, then I really just need to try harder to drop it I guess.

Scum have the same incentive as town to answer questions. Why do you think scum would ignore you in this situation?

Unless he has a specific reason to ignore me, then why do it? If he does have a reason, then the very least he could do would be to tell me why he is ignoring me.

I'm asking questions that I feel are relevant to the game, and his answers would help me (and others) get a feel for if he is town or scum. If he is town, then answering the questions should lead the rest of us to that conclusion. Therefore, if he's scum I could see him being reluctant to answer those questions. Or he answers the question and its just a null tell. The only reason I can see to not answer the question is if you are afraid of screwing up.

It seems to me, the more a scum player posts, the more they have a chance to screw up (isn't that the idea behind lynch all lurkers?)

Do you have other insight into why a player would ignore questions, from an IC point of view?

[Neuky]

Welcome Sundy - I hope you like reading..

OK, whether veridis re-joins or not..

As you say people just forgot Ty, they didn't retract their earlier positions, they didn't acknowledge some good arguments for why Ty was town, they just forgot. I think many of the initial criticisms of Ty still stand and the wagon was spooked by the failhammer and the thread has been distracted by the dawg/Mute bickering since.

This made me think that there are two ways you can look at that.
A. That Ty is scum, and has benefited from town forgetting their arguments why they voted him in the first place. (Though it is feasible they just saw more likely candidates appear as the game progressed)
- or -
B. that 1 or more scum were on his wagon, which we all know collapsed after the Dawghammer, and they've wandered off to pastures new to try and get the mislynch.

So -

Workdawg backs off pretty quickly(but leaves his vote for a while), Nacho unvotes "just in case" and Stels unvotes "to be safe for the night".

At the moment Dawg and Stels aren't voting, and Nacho is on Stels. Would anyone care to elaborate why they aren't voting Ty now?

@Dawg:

The other thing is this - @Dawg, you posted directly after seven posts about Stels warning/advice to you, but you didn't comment on it at all. Care to share your thoughts?

I know you have now shared your thoughts on what Stels said, but I maybe worded it badly, what I actually meant was did you have an explanation for not joining in the discussion at the time?

[Nachomamma8]

Neuky, you have questions to answer.

[Neuky]

Actually - I may be wrong there, look like its L-2. I'm going to read Stel's defence before making a decision to vote or not. Its past midnight here - so I'll do that tomorrow.

The last post you made stated that your vote would be on Stels if Stels wasn't at L-1. Why didn't you vote when you realized he wasn't at L-1?

You seemed to have missed this:

For the record, I'm still willing to vote Stels, but think that this moment in time I'm not willing to put him at L-1 when we have 2 new players coming in - just in case one slaps a Stels vote on without realising.

Also:

Mute & Dawg are like an old married couple..
The last few posts actually had me laughing - you just can't stop yourselves!

Still not rethinking that Stels vote, I see... Are you scumbuddies with him or something? If so, promising content on him and then ignoring him immediately afterwards is not a good strategy.

Look at all my posts Nacho - I've already made my case for Stels. I haven't put my vote down because of the player situation.

**NewsFLASH**
Our long absent "d" posting IC is back...

@Nacho - You know all this though as I've already referred to it. The player situation has to do with 4 players not being around - that includes you - and your lack of support. Because of this we have tried to progress the game the best we can. I for one thought it would be bad for town if I made Stels L-1, as we appear to have 2 players (sundy and whoever replaces veridis) who could be a complete newbies for all I know jumping into the game. (Indeed, I still think veridis will get replaced too), and I think Drench has misunderstood Ty - I think Ty still wants replaced but was willing to play until a replacement could be found.

So Nacho - why do you think it would be pro town to have a player, any player at L-1 with the chance of 2 newbies coming into the game, when we still have 5 days before deadline?

[Neuky]

and Nacho - note I'm still not voting Stels - you are not bullying me into voting. I'll do it when I've decided and not before. For the record - I'm still swithering between Dawg and Stels - but you'd know that if you read my posts....

[Nachomamma8]

It seems to me, the more a scum player posts, the more they have a chance to screw up (isn't that the idea behind lynch all lurkers?)

Yup. And unfortunately, lynch all lurkers is pretty damn inaccurate. The reason is that most of the notposting trends come from laziness, and not from fear.

Which sort of links into your question. I think that it's far more likely that someone ignores a question because they missed it rather than anything else. There's really no reason to ignore questions as either alignment, so it's pretty much indicative more of bad play than alignment.

[Nachomamma8]

You seemed to have missed this:

I did. That doesn't mean you get to squirm out of answering my first question, though.

So Nacho - why do you think it would be pro town to have a player, any player at L-1 with the chance of 2 newbies coming into the game, when we still have 5 days before deadline?

It would be a clear, decisive action. I'm not overly worried over accidental hammers on Stels because I think that he's scum. And think of it- the only really interesting discussion that's taken place in this game thus far has resulted from Workdawg's "accidental" hammer, so it's not like having a complete and total newbie waltz in here and hammer would be a complete waste.

and Nacho - note I'm still not voting Stels - you are not bullying me into voting. I'll do it when I've decided and not before. For the record - I'm still swithering between Dawg and Stels - but you'd know that if you read my posts....

What makes you think I'm trying to bully you?