Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
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- Joined: March 15, 2009
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Umbrage Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Scenario 1: Kise mentions a bullshit chat with Reck to try and strengthen his case. Now, obviously, he must know that doing this will mean he is confirmed scum to Reck, UNLESS if his wagon fails he can fall back on the excuse of "it must have been with someone else". Maybe his lover/scumbuddy. However, by saying that it only could've been with Reck or NC, he cuts himself off from his only back door, something I don't see scum doing.
Scenario 2: Kise had the conversation with NC, thought it was Reck, Reck flips out, NC covers Reck's ass.
You tell me, which makes more sense?I'll explain it to you. You have to get someone else to understand it for you.-
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Antihero al;kdjfal;kj
- al;kdjfal;kj
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If you're going to put together a joke, you might as well make it funny.Umbrage wrote:Also, I herebyFoSGreyICE and Antihero. They've put together very little content. GreyICE manages to joke around a lot, make lists of the lovers, and point out which players aren't posting, but doesn't stick his neck out. Antihero's done nothing of note except attack q21 while voting EmpTyger.
Accusing us of not generating content is pretty rich coming from you two.
Oh, and then there's this gem:
Why this list is really scummy:Why he is a better lynch than Kise:
1. I don't see scum making up a fake AIM conversation to enhance their case. Kise didn't even leave himself the back door of 'well it could've been some other guy', he said he only chats with three people.
2. Nero Cain is Reck's lover, and one of the people Kise said he could've chatted with. With a QT, it would be pretty easy for the two of them to play on a mistake made by Kise.
3. The way I see it, if Kise flips town, it doesn't really mean Reck is scum, and he could talk his way out of a lynch. But if Reck is town, Kise is almost definitely scum.
1. He's pretty much taking Kise's word over reck's and NC's, but trying to disguise it behind reason.
2. He never talks about the reason Reck is really scum in the first place (even if Kise did talk to reck about this; so what? people forget stuff).
3. The third item in the list makes no sense whatsoever; I smell a bullshitty way of lining up lynches.
buddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddybuddyKcdaspot wrote:Read Kise's ISO.
I'm convinced of my vote. Reck seems to want to blow it WAY out of proportion. As far as I'm concerned, scummy thing happen IN thread rather out of thread.
Reck is over-perusing baseless and harmless nothings.
That's that.
I'm still voting emptyger. That needs to be fixed.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: q21The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.-
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Umbrage Mafia Scum
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What. The. Fuck.but trying to disguise it behind reason... He never talks about the reason Reck is really scum in the first place
So, is there reasoning for my attack or isn't there? And what is the reason Reck is scum? If you think he's scum, why haven't you questioned him?I'll explain it to you. You have to get someone else to understand it for you.-
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Antihero al;kdjfal;kj
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Quote mining FTW?Umbrage wrote:
What. The. Fuck.but trying to disguise it behind reason... He never talks about the reason Reck is really scum in the first place
So, is there reasoning for my attack or isn't there? And what is the reason Reck is scum? If you think he's scum, why haven't you questioned him?
Hiding behind a facade of rationalization (your third point epitomizes this) and actually telling me why Reck is scum are two completely different things.
Also,Idon't think reck is scum; apparentlyyoudo.The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.-
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Antihero al;kdjfal;kj
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^Also, black-and-white thinking, FTW too.Umbrage wrote:Scenario 1: Kise mentions a bullshit chat with Reck to try and strengthen his case. Now, obviously, he must know that doing this will mean he is confirmed scum to Reck, UNLESS if his wagon fails he can fall back on the excuse of "it must have been with someone else". Maybe his lover/scumbuddy. However, by saying that it only could've been with Reck or NC, he cuts himself off from his only back door, something I don't see scum doing.
Scenario 2: Kise had the conversation with NC, thought it was Reck, Reck flips out, NC covers Reck's ass.
You tell me, which makes more sense?The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.-
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Umbrage Mafia Scum
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Idea #1: You're scum. We'll expound upon this at length, it's already been expounded upon a bit in our quickthread. I'd hop into yours with your three other friends to see what you can brew up.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
Official Visigoth
Read Mother Jones-
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Antihero al;kdjfal;kj
- al;kdjfal;kj
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Tragedy Jack of All Trades
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@Reckon: Why post chat logs when they have no meaning...Do they? (Oops, Haylen got's this!)
Just sent Mariyta some sort of stuffles of information about some players.I blame you for this.
For I have been awaiting for another heart pounding segment ofDokidoki Precure!
[10/15/2013 - 00:13] -Tragedy~I wish for Kami-nii-sama to have better naming skills.-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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Tragedy wrote:@Reckon: Why post chat logs when they have no meaning...Do they? (Oops, Haylen got's this!)
Just sent Mariyta some sort of stuffles of information about some players.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I don't either make very much sense and since I KNOW that I didn't have a convo with Kise about this game #2 is deff false.Umbrage wrote:Scenario 1: Kise mentions a bullshit chat with Reck to try and strengthen his case. Now, obviously, he must know that doing this will mean he is confirmed scum to Reck, UNLESS if his wagon fails he can fall back on the excuse of "it must have been with someone else". Maybe his lover/scumbuddy. However, by saying that it only could've been with Reck or NC, he cuts himself off from his only back door, something I don't see scum doing.
Scenario 2: Kise had the conversation with NC, thought it was Reck, Reck flips out, NC covers Reck's ass.
You tell me, which makes more sense?Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit-
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dramonic Survivor
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People in this game are veeeeeeeeeery confused...
It's annoying, really.
Unvote
Vote: Q21
nothing against you buddy, but your little lover is trying to attack my actual lover for reacting to a false accusation and calling Kise out for it, and that's freakin scummy.
Umbrage, let's look at this from a "Kise is town" perspective. He made up a conversation and used it to accuse Reck of being scum. If the conversation doesn't exist (hint: it doesn't, as has been proven), then that makes his complete case inexistant. Reck, reacting to said accusation, provides evidence that Kise is lying about this happening, as should any townie being attacked for a disprovable reason, thinking he caught scum.
That makes Reck PRO, FUCKIN, TOWN.I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts-
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Thingyman Townie
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hehe, no, I'll talk for myself (I even expressed disagreement with one of Emp's reads), but I will of course also take my lover's insight into considerationPurple Orange wrote:On an unrelated note, have you and Thingy just decided to let you be the team spokesperson? Because if I went after silavor over that stuff, I should have totally gone after him as well. It's largely the fact you're paired with him makes menot, at this point. (Well, that, and the fact that although he annoys me to death and has said zilch, right now I'm actually reading him as town).
I am sorry that I am managing to "annoy you to death" somehow? :S - if it's because I've said "zilch" (which I think is a bit unfair and harsh to say - especially given that I've apparently said enough to warrant a town read), then I'm reading the thread right now and will have some thoughts when I'm done.-
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Mariyta Mafia Scum
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There's also the possibility that Kise had the discussion, but with neither of them and can't remember who it was.Umbrage wrote:Scenario 1: Kise mentions a bullshit chat with Reck to try and strengthen his case. Now, obviously, he must know that doing this will mean he is confirmed scum to Reck, UNLESS if his wagon fails he can fall back on the excuse of "it must have been with someone else". Maybe his lover/scumbuddy. However, by saying that it only could've been with Reck or NC, he cuts himself off from his only back door, something I don't see scum doing.
Scenario 2: Kise had the conversation with NC, thought it was Reck, Reck flips out, NC covers Reck's ass.
You tell me, which makes more sense?
I still don't like Llamarble, so I'm putting my vote back there until I get a chance to re-read.
VOTE: Llamarble (I hope I'm spelling that right.)Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
-Susan Ertz
Whoever thinks grammar is not important, think again. Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.-
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silavor Goon
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Where's q21 taken off to? He's got a ton of votes on him now, and absolutely no defense for his scummy behavior so far.
Umbrage, why are you voting Reck? You never actually say why you think he's scummy, you just say that you think he's a better lynch than kise, and posting a bunch of hypothetical situations that don't really lead anywhere. Trying to lynch Reck because you find him annoying or irritating or whatever isn't going to help us lynch scum, and it isn't going to help us find scum later on.-
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Thingyman Townie
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I assume by ISO #7 you mean my 7th post in the thread?Nero Cain wrote:Though I do have a question for you thingyman. Why were you not for the mass claim until ISO #7?
In that case: I was for the mass claim the entire time. The reason that I didn't actually state it right away is because my lover (EmpTyger) said that we wanted to preferably see who was going to support it first or if anyone who knew better opposed it. Basically, he wanted to be able to get reads from the discussion (which I agree was a good idea).-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Okay, lets review the post history of theq21/Umbrage(may I call you Dolores?) Lovers
Q21
In his first post, he comes into an interesting discussion that is the end of the RVS. What's interesting is how he handles it. Q21 just... sheeps the biggest wagon he sees. His next input into the thread? He goes after VezokPiraka (the definition of an easy target, pretty much) for mindlessly sheeping. What's next? He jumps on Reck's Haylen vote. Remember, his last two posts before this were about mindlessly sheeping, which he apparently doesn't like. Then he... mindlessly sheeps?
Five posts into the thread, you have two votes, none of which have reasons behind them, one attack, on an easy target, which was not followed by a vote, and two instances of sheeping. I honestly think that short of hardclaiming a scum role, you'd be hard pressed to pick a scummier way to make five posts.
So what is Umbrage busy doing?
Umbrage
Well, first he votes for Reckoner. The person attacking me.While q21 was voting me. He then votes EmpTyger. For what?Attacking me again.Remember, this is a hydra team with their own QT. And they've reached the conclusion that I'm scum, and the people attacking me are... scum for attacking me?
What next? Well, a lot of people seem mad at Reckoner. He votes Reckoner. He then FoS' me, after attacking the people defending me earlier. And complains about how I haven't put out enough content after being part of most of the early-game discussion in the thread.
His response to Antihero's push on this scumteam? Questions. He answers questions with questions. Why? He's scared of where the followups to his answers would lead, andstalling for time. Three others back in the QT to help him answer this one?
Summary:
Basically, we have a team that seems dead set on doing nothing so much as sowing discord and pushing the wagons and attacks that others are making. They vote both sides of a wagon - long before claiming, so it looks like independent support. They try to bandwagon whatever the prevailing sentiment is. They have contributed, by my measure, somewhere between jack and shit. We've seen some serious lover disagreement in this thread, but pushing two sides of a wagon to make BOTH sides look scummier without even acknowledging this dichotomy? Trying to not make cases or draw attention to themselves? Responding to votes and attacks with questions and stalling?
This sounds like scum to me.
Vote: q21ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Read Mother Jones-
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Thingyman Townie
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The same as here.Kise wrote:@Thingyman: What is your username on twoplustwo?
I'll just respond to this here instead of writing it twice here and in our own chat.EmpTyger wrote:Antihero:
Re Thingy, I only told him to ask me any “newbie” questions in private, so as not to distract from the game. Last I heard from him, he said he was going to read up on players’ private games. I’ve tried to explain was a bad idea, at first appealing to reason, then more bluntly telling him that he’s just going to burn himself out. Honestly, I think Thingy’s in over his head. I’d like for him to contribute- in particular I want to hear why he disagreed with me about GreyIce.
I naturally wasn't / isn't planning on reading everyone's games. But I saw that GreyICE - who was being heavily discussed at the time - only had one previous game on this site, so I figured that I could get a decent baseline on him from skimming through that game and therefore asked him for a link. I'm currently playing this game on several different sites - I'm used to doing a lot of re-reading and playing several games at once, so you don't have to worry about me burning out
Now, wrt: GreyICE. These are my notes:
antihero & GreyICE
- #20: tiny villa pts for prodding me to vote xRECKONERx
- #35: tiny villa pts for his clearing of xRECKONERx based on his ignorance wrt no night kills
- #203: tiny villa pts for "Antihero has been pointing out q21 has been needling people without taking any real stances or providing any logic, his response is to needle without taking any real stances. Antihero is convincing, he wins."
If you need me to elaborate on these notes, I will of course oblige.-
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Tragedy Jack of All Trades
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QFT Same thought I exactly had when I was giving Mariyta a list of peeps.GreyICE wrote:Q21
In his first post, he comes into an interesting discussion that is the end of the RVS. What's interesting is how he handles it. Q21 just... sheeps the biggest wagon he sees. His next input into the thread? He goes after VezokPiraka (the definition of an easy target, pretty much) for mindlessly sheeping. What's next? He jumps on Reck's Haylen vote. Remember, his last two posts before this were about mindlessly sheeping, which he apparently doesn't like. Then he... mindlessly sheeps?
Five posts into the thread, you have two votes, none of which have reasons behind them, one attack, on an easy target, which was not followed by a vote, and two instances of sheeping. I honestly think that short of hardclaiming a scum role, you'd be hard pressed to pick a scummier way to make five posts.I blame you for this.
For I have been awaiting for another heart pounding segment ofDokidoki Precure!
[10/15/2013 - 00:13] -Tragedy~I wish for Kami-nii-sama to have better naming skills.-
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Thingyman Townie
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Alright, here are my reads from having read the start from start to finish with people's masonries in mind:
Town
Thingyman & EmpTyger
Nero Cain & xRECKONERx
antihero & GreyICE
implosion & Kise
espeonage & Purple Orange
I feel reasonably good about this on a whole and I'm hoping that the setup (two scum teams) isn't having too much of an effect on my reads this game. If you need detailed reasoning for my reads, then go ahead and ask.
I know Reck and Kise are heavily suspecting each other, but I honestly don't see Kise ever deciding to make a play like that as a scum and I think Reck's reaction to the whole thing is believable.
espeonage & Purple Orange are my weakest town lean on the list - I think espeonage has been scummy, but on the other hand Purple Orange has made several posts that seem to be very sincere and full of good, sensible thoughts.
Scum
Baby Spice & Kcdaspot
Dramonic & werewolf555
Llamarble & DarlaBlueEyes
These are partnerships that I don't recall making a single post that I'd perceive as town-like.
I will say though that Llamarble & DarlaBlueEyes are probably unlikely to be on the wolf team due to this comment from Llarmarble (#101): "Then again maybe Thingy (Emplover) referring to both scumteams as "wolves" is a slip and he's forgotten there are different types than his own?".
wrt q21 & Umbrage: I am by no means clearing them and I will not in any way oppose their lynch, but I am personally thinking that they're perhaps "too scummy to be scum", so I am ignoring them for now.-
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Thingyman Townie
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Thingyman the correct solution to "Wine In Front Of Me" is to break the neck of the wineglass and use it to shiv the other person's throat.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Read Mother Jones-
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Thingyman Townie
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I'm not really familiar with that term, but it seems to imply that they're aware that they're acting scummy which I don't necessarily agree with.GreyICE wrote:Thingyman the correct solution to "Wine In Front Of Me" is to break the neck of the wineglass and use it to shiv the other person's throat.
In my experience, people who are "too scummy to be scum" are rarely scum. I wouldn't say this is one of the extreme cases though (which is why I'm choosing to just outright ignore it for the moment).
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