A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[diddin]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?

Because I'm voting DBG, and she's an easy target. Riiiiiiiiight

[Eddard Stark]

Percy will be prodded

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?

Because I'm voting DBG, and she's an easy target. Riiiiiiiiight

Oh hey look, sarcasm. That's original!

...The argument "you said they were town. Then you said you want them dead, therefore you are scum" is an argument i've seen a bunch of times before
It's a scum argument.

[diddin]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?

Because I'm voting DBG, and she's an easy target. Riiiiiiiiight

Oh hey look, sarcasm. That's original!

...The argument "you said they were town. Then you said you want them dead, therefore you are scum" is an argument i've seen a bunch of times before
It's a scum argument.

Please explain to me how it's not a scumtell then.

[Raivann]

Hold Hannah this game moves quickly and I had to ade through a lot of crazies and bs

GreyIce is overreacting a lot.

I was gonna disagree with MoI about VIs, then I read #84 & it's exactly what I was gonna say. Let's lynch scummy (regardless of VI status). However, deviation from expected behavior will likely influence whether something done by a specific player is actually scummy or not.

I don't see what the big deal about D1 governor. If the governor screws with the town preferred lynch, we get info & he has to justify himself. But that's prolly not going to happen.

I agree GreyIce is acting crazy. I also agree that the governor role isn't that big of a deal. Mod confirmed they can't themselves so really, though it could be super useful, I don't see it as partically that hurtful

You know what would be great? If we could stop the soft-claiming going on ...

I understand in Cow's case given his PR why he more or less had to but others of you don't have any reason to be giving up your charater.

I agree with this statement also. There's no pressure on many people, but I have seen a lot of claims, be it joke or not thrown around already and there's no need for it.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

That was exactly my reaction lol *high fives*

Hey DGB - if Locke is certified scum why is your vote still on LynchMePls? Just curious.

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

I'm down to see where this goes. I liked your posts so far.

RAISE BENMAGE

Also what the hell are VIs?

^Scummy post.
I voted for Song before this post, but I like it alot after this post.
Acting "crazy" is an ambiguous and scummy word.
Too agreeable and nice too. The part where she is agreeing with MoI is scum chatting with each other.
lol *hi Five* looks like fake enthusiasum.
Then there's the Benmage buddying and raising. She didn't know what VI meant. Wasn't that pretty much the majority of what Benmage's posts were about?

[chesskid3]

Because dead weight/misslynch bait sucks? Even if you've got a 100% townread on someone, if most of the rest of the game doesn't, it's going to be a huge distraction until said person dies. Never going to get nked, so the choices are vigged (good) or mislynched (bad).
Gosh.

[hasdgfas]

unvote
unraise
Raise: Magua

*points at Magua*
*taps finger against head*
*holds hand out, thumb up*

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

*points at Magua* *raises hand* *points at GreyICE*
*shakes head*
*points at Magua* *taps finger on side of head* *points at GreyICE* *gets on all fours and shakes out hair*

The concept that we raise someone who isn't asking for it remains a scum concept.

*shakes head*
*holds hand out* *rapidly brings hand towards self multiple times*

[Feysal]

Okay, I've read about half of the thread, and can't go any further tonight. I'll catch up on the rest tomorrow, but for now I have some of my thoughts from the first five pages for you.

GreyICE looks town so far. That said, I'm not in favor of him being raised as the Hand of the King. His campaign promise of not using the governor power is not what I want, and what he said about yelling but not using his power even if an obvtown player was being lynched does not sit right with me. What I would want from the Hand of the King is to be someone with a good head for town reads, and not afraid to use the power to help the town. I don't see why we should reject this power out of fear of what might happen, especially after the clarification that the power can not be used on yourself.

Of course I think I would be a good candidate to be raised, and, well, who doesn't. I will defend my town reads, and I will not ask permission or apologize for it. I know how difficult it is to convince even a few people, let alone the entire town that they are wrong in trying to lynch someone, and having a governor power for such an occasion could help the town a lot. I'm not one to self-vote though, and I'll be thinking about who else I would want having this power.

I'm surprised to see Bunnylover said he did not want to be raised. I wonder why, and are there any others?

MoI is not impressing me so far. His statistics of who self-raised did not look significant, bringing it up this early was really not worth it, and devoting wall posts to arguing about it did not serve any useful purpose I could recognize. When MoI said the data was not usable in this game in #122, I had to wonder what was the use of arguing about something that pointless. I liked the end of that post though, the part about the Hand of God being under extra scrutiny. Even less reason to fear it falling into scum hands. I also completely agree with giving no regard for village idiocy when lynching people who appear scummy. I recently had a frustrating incident with scum Furcolow who no one believed to be scum due to his village idiocy, until the moment he killed everyone but me and I was endgamed.

Oh, and I see we have a post restricted player. I've never had a restriction myself, but I've been in several games with them. I'm going to have fun deciphering his posts.

More tomorrow after I read the rest, for now, goodnight.

[GreyICE]

Feysel, if an obvtown player is being lynched... no, seriously.

If a player is obvtown, they're probably not being lynched. If a majority of the players think they're the lynch, why the hell would they be obvtown?

[LimMePls]

On that note:

Unraise
Raise: Magua

That's your best town read?

Ya. What's wrong with this?

[Feysal]

Feysel, if an obvtown player is being lynched... no, seriously.

If a player is obvtown, they're probably not being lynched. If a majority of the players think they're the lynch, why the hell would they be obvtown?

I have no idea. You tell me, those words came from your post:

Even if you guys are going to retard lynch an obvtown, I might yell at you - but I won't use the powers.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from early this afternoon until Monday for a weekend family trip.

TL DR Summary of the below

–

diddin, GreyICE, and at least one off of DGB’s list below is scum.

--

Despite rolling town. I've been looking forward to this game way too much to not give it my A-game.

As long as your A-game doesn’t involve faking a guilty on someone who ends up Lannister aligned I’m happy to hear this.

--

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

I subscribe to the logic behind this statement and would further expand that if we are in a multi-scum environment and Shadow is Town there are likely multiple scum from multiple factions here.

--

It's because she used something that was

factually untrue

to cast suspicion on someone. That's fucking bullshit, and it doesn't fly. Now here's a question for you: Why not let her defend herself? You earning white knight points somewhere? It's almost too bad that the answers are going to be buried inside a 4,000 word wall of long quotes interspersed with insipid one liners and pointless rambling so I really won't ever read them.

I note that in this response you snipped the important part of my questions. I’m not surpised since the questions you specifically avoided go right to the heart of why your attack is scumtastic. I’ve bolded the part which you continue to assert.

DGB’s claim is that Cow in a previous game FAKED a crippling PR, GAINED powers from it, and WAS scum.

Two of those three, as I understand it, are correct and indisputable. He was scum and did gain powers by following the optional PR. So you are asserting that it’s factually inaccurate because DGB used the word faked? Because Cow would have had to fake being required to only post two words to gain the powers.

RTFT. Yeah, these were a total waste of my time. Thanks. Lets not do that again.

I’ve read the thread. I’m trying to determine why you are so hot to attack her for Cow being on her list of scum. If Cow is faking a PR then it’s clearly scummy. That’s far more reasoning than what she’s provided about Locke or LMP. You don’t even blink an eye about them.

Also I'm highlighting for everyone else to see how your attack is incorrect. Add it to your repeated back-tracking in thread and repeated attempts to label yourself as Town by statement as opposed to action. The result - you earn a scum read.

Oh yeah, and DGB is a 'her.' I figured this out because I'm reading the thread, not abusing multitab and the quote button.

I also know she is female. That’s why I said things like “She didn’t”. Oops I interchanged 1 pronoun. My bad. Your continued rhetoric (inferring I’m not reading and stating that posting as I do is scummy without support as to why) is just further logs for the bonfire I'm lighting under you.

And this is a prime example of the type of ‘insipid one-liners’ you accuse me of making. Bravo, you’ve reached full hypocrisy in record time.

He can't have the common courtesy to summarize his thoughts in a way that is at least readable, I'm not gonna have the courtesy to read him

Funny, because this is just your excuse to extricate yourself from scrutiny. The ‘Take your ball and go home’ defense often comes up when I see scum under pressure that makes them uncomfortable. So they invent a reason not to respond. As you just did.

--

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

This is scumtastic. Does having a Town read (baffling as his is on GreyICE) mean it is automatically stronger than his Town read on Twilight?

Quit bitching about MOI's posting style ICE. Just because you can't read/don't like his posting style doesn't mean he's going to change it. The world doesn't revolve around you.

You know what triggers my scumdar? Blatant buddying up to me.

Fred Garvin did it in Newbie 969
NoPoint did in in [REDACTED]
Fonz did it in Seinfeld Mafia (and I didn’t call him on it damn it)
Kapia did it in Gorrad’s Favorite Fiction Character Mafia (and it made no sense since she saw Fred Garvin do it in Newbie 969)

They all were scum.

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum? FoS

Insert face-palm pic here …

I know you know very well Vigs hitting VI players is important to Town in the long run. You played Clash.

Yet here you are throwing dirt on your previously held strongest Town read.

UNVOTE: Zdenek
VOTE: diddin

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.7

Twilight Sparkle (1) Zdenek
Shadow1psc (3) zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (3) Bunnylover, Locke Lamora, GreyICE
xvart (1) Song of Ice and Fire
Mikujin (1) Danakillsu
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball

GreyICE (3) LynchMePls, Nexus, Shadow1psc

Song of Ice and Fire (1) Raivann
diddin (3) Magua, chesskid3, MagnaofIllusion
danakillsu (1) Benmage
Magua (1) diddin

Not voting (6) Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Feysal, Kast, hasdgfas

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.6

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Hasdgfas (1) GreyICE
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua
Mikujin (1) Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (2) Danakillsu,Raivann
Bunnylover (1) Bunnylover
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (4) Benmage, Song of Ice and Fire, MagnaofIllusion, diddin

Magua (2) LynchMePls, Hasdgfas

Not raising (11)Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Zdenek, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Feysal, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* Zoraster and Mikujin will be prodded (it's been 2 days for both since their last post)
* xvart and Zdenek are currently on v/la untill Sunday and Monday. MoI is also V/la.
* Deadline countdown is here

[diddin]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

yes. You're well known on this site and your opinion is very influential to people.

@Magna: My point is that most players considered VI are wanted to be vigged because it's hard to tell whether they're town or scum. Vigbait players can usually very conceivably flip town or scum, but DGB outright states she thinks ICE is town. Plus I'd HARDLY classify GreyICE as a VI. He's annoying, yes, but he's no VI.

Also Magua never said he thought Sparkle was town. He just said he thought their reads would be similar, and as such, Sparkle would use the governor ability in a way Magua likes.

[Mikujin]

Bwuh, I have been prodded. Apologies, I apparently didn't have this bookmarked and totally forgot about it over the work week. Guess I've got some catching up to do when I get home from work.

[GreyICE]

Bwuh, I have been prodded. Apologies, I apparently didn't have this bookmarked and totally forgot about it over the work week. Guess I've got some catching up to do when I get home from work.

Yeah. Or you were posting in it on Thursday, when it opened. Which was during the work week. Today is Saturday. So you forgot about it for... Friday.

Is someone being overly apologetic to the town to divert suspicion? Yes. Yes they are. Not posting in a game for a day is hardly a scum tell. Being guilty about it and posting this garbage apology when the game opened Thursday? Is.

Unvote

Vote: Mikujin

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

yes. You're well known on this site and your opinion is very influential to people.

But GreyICE is on my town list. You're expecting that a vig will interpret the mixed message of "vig GreyICE-town because he's irritating" as "vig GreyICE?"

See, I would think the vig, or anyone, would think "haha, yes, he's irritating." And vig someone else of their choosing.

[DrippingGoofball]

Plus I'd HARDLY classify GreyICE as a VI. He's annoying, yes, but he's no VI.

SHOW ME where I said GreyICE is a VI.

[danakillsu]

diddin (1) Magua, chesskid3, MagnaofIllusion

@mod

Please tell me this is a mistake. Non-counted voters are a real headache.

Fix'd. If it looks like a votecount mistake, chances are it probably is

[zoraster]

Yeah, I'm around. I just had two large themes start in one day. Anyway, I'm doing the valentine's thing today, but I'll get to it tomorrow afternoon/evening

[diddin]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

yes. You're well known on this site and your opinion is very influential to people.

But GreyICE is on my town list. You're expecting that a vig will interpret the mixed message of "vig GreyICE-town because he's irritating" as "vig GreyICE?"

See, I would think the vig, or anyone, would think "haha, yes, he's irritating." And vig someone else of their choosing.

What is the purpose of even saying that if you don't want people to agree with you? I also fail to see how VIG THIS PERSON is a mixed message. At all.

Plus I'd HARDLY classify GreyICE as a VI. He's annoying, yes, but he's no VI.

SHOW ME where I said GreyICE is a VI.

You never did. I was making a comparison between what you said and Benmage's push to lynch all VI's.

[Percy]

Sorry everyone; I've been really sick. I will read and post today sometime.

[Nexus]

I'd best go v/la until Tuesday evening. I randomly ended up being able to go to my girlfriend's.

[Twilight Sparkle]

Our hydra hasn't been at full strength for the last few days. These are mostly my (hito) personal thoughts, with some input from Mina via AIM. I point this out because ideally, we'll

normally

be expressing our consensus reads, no matter the poster, but in this case this is heavily me-biased. Sorry if Sotty ends up thinking differently. I know it's annoying to have skitzo hydras; the alternative is no hydra.

The strongest read from us is GreyICE-town. While I'm not happy with the needless vitriol he's spewing in the thread (I have no objection to "Sparky" myself, but in general the trolling and nicknames aren't winning you any favors) and his DGB LAL case is sketchy at best, his hard-to-fake passion and high engagement with the game all scream town, town, town.

As for MoI, the juries still out read-wise, but one thing I'd like to address immediately. GreyICE mentioned that he was only skimming your grievous walls. You responded with this:

I'll say it again - Reading isn't a hardship. Mafia is a WRITTEN game. If you don't want to read go find another hobby like Etch-a-Sketch or Lite Brite.

That condescending attitude helps no one. Yes, this is a game about reading, but that doesn't mean that it's equally easy, enjoyable, or useful to give us giant walls. If I were to write all of my posts in Pig Latin, it is obvious I could not take recourse in the "this is a written game" defense; but oftentimes slogging through a large wall is equally as annoying as deciphering Pig Latin. I wouldn't say it in the overly aggressive way GreyICE phrased it ("fuck you, I'm not reading that!"), but all the same, I think it's worth saying that you absolutely

do

have an obligation as town to try to make your thoughts as readable as possible, and concision is a very helpful tool to that end.

Benmage is looking fairly townish (we've all got some experience with him), though we'll be holding on to our raise vote. Chess (unfortunately) is likely town. Shadow is also picking up some town points (feels like a newer player wouldn't be so chatty with the weight of a scum role on their soul), which makes our vote fairly stale.

Unvote

As for who to put it on, the winner is ASOIAF for this:

I'm down to see where this goes. I liked your posts so far.

RAISE BENMAGE


Also what the hell are VIs?

You don't know what a VI means, so what exactly did you like about the posts of someone most just recommending we policy lynch them? Rav points this out in 209; I am similarly confused.

Vote: A Song of Ice and Fire

@Nexus:

I almost voted Raivann for post #143 when I was re reading, but later posts changed my mind. Votes with no explanation, even in RVS (I'm not entirely convinced we were still in RVS) aren't helpful.

I'm curious as to what these 'later posts' are.

@Cow:

I've been doing some mulling on your restriction. I have a quick question - can you dance?

@Zdenik:

What are your reads on GreyICE and MoI?

Also, to the town at large: do we agree that popping governor immediately on a target no one wants lynched is the way to go?

This is quickly turning into a wall in it's own right! Most of our players exist in a state of catch-up right now; so I'll end this one for now. Hopefully we can grab Sotty soon and get all of the ponies riding as one~

-hito