Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count XVI

Amrun - 6 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, Stephoscope, bvoigt, RedCoyote, ThAdmiral

ThAdmiral - 8 -

Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, smargaret, GhostWriter, Amrun, Feysal

mothrax - 5 -

Scott Brosius, Lowell, Artem, InflatablePie, gonnano

Artem - 2 -

Furcolow, DavidParker

Not Voting - 3 -

mothrax, Fuzzyman, Sathoris,

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

Nachomamma8, Sathoris and EGL have been prodded.

Fuzzyman is being replaced

[Feysal]

Vote: Artem

He's too town to be town

And I thought your cases could not get any worse after that Stephoscope vote. I stand corrected. This is the single stupidest reason to vote someone I have ever seen in my mafia career. Anyone else wondering, it should be clear that Furcolow indeed meant Artem and not Amrun. The pronoun "he", the description of him being "too town", the defense of ThAdmiral, the meta... all of that is Artem.

DavidParker voting Artem may have been in error though.

I'm actually bulletproof, but if you mean town as in on the side of the townies, then yeah, I guess I am.

You

guess

you are town?

Well, it helps have someone for the town to help out through providing lynch targets.
Also, if the scum want to waste 2 nights killing Furcolow, that is very good for the town.

Let me get this straight: you're under the impression that claiming bulletproof would somehow confirm you as town, so you would be allowed to lead the town and pick lynch targets for us? Targets like Artem? Dream on.

I have seen that it is a smart claim day 1, as when it is incorporated it is generally good to lead the town, as scum won't be able to silence you after only one night. That's just personal preference.

I'd rather you go ahead and tell me now why it was a bad idea. The thing is, though, I can't be sure you're not scum! You could be purposefully misleading me on my quest of scumhunting.

Actually, claiming bulletproof is one of the stupidest things you can do in this game. It does not automatically confirm you and enable you to lead the town. Also, claiming is not necessary for the role to work. If you did not claim, the scum might try to kill you and fail, and that would enable someone else to survive that night. If you do claim, scum will not even try to kill you, and they will successfully kill someone else. In short, if you claim bulletproof, the ability is wasted.

False

claiming bulletproof on the other hand is worthwhile, if you can get away with it. Town can try it as a gambit, to fool the scum into not killing you. Scum can try it as a gambit, to fool a vigilante not to kill you, and to give an explanation why the scum keeps leaving you alive.

I don't believe your claim. I think you are trying to bluff, because you're afraid of being vigged tomorrow night. Your so-called scumhunting is appalling, your behavior anti-town. You need to die. Someone who makes cases like the one you made on Artem cannot possibly be allowed to survive into endgame. And that is good, because I believe you are scum.

[Beasts of the Sea]

Reading what I missed it taking longer than expected. This is the first chunk.

This is a valid point. If PI had been quick lynched I wouldn't have been upset about it. A good lynch because of the way he played, and then more info from night actions.

He's survived now, so we may as well use our time to pursue other endeavors, but I'm always keen to re-push PI's wagon.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, DavidParker.

BotS: Vote does not necessarily equal lynch. I would like there to be a certain amount of pressure on Ivy, and I thought at the point I voted for GW that the pressure on her was adequate for the situation. I saw how she reacted to the wagon. I'd like there to be a little more pressure on her at the moment, because I'm not sure whether her reaction was frustrated town or scum. However, GW has actually done things I see to be definitively scummy, so he gets my vote. Also, I was answering a question about how I felt about the Ivy wagon at that point in time - not pushing to restart the wagon. There's a difference, and implying that there isn't is misrep.

Same to you. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You felt that PoisonIvy needed more pressure but didn't want to "restart" the wagon or apply a vote yourself.

Llama - what do you think of smargaret and her pushing on PoisonIvy but not voting? (Similar to your accusation of gonnano)

Really? Are you really arguing that I don't know what connotation I associate with the term "becoming increasingly scummy"? When I originally said it, I thought it was obvious that I didn't yet consider Furcolow scum (hence no vote), but that he was heading that way quickly. I found that wasn't the case when I saw that some people had interpreted it differently, but I really can't see why this is still an issue after I explained it once.

I'll repeat: Increasingly scummy means more than VI behavior. You are implicitly saying that Furcolow is exhibiting behavior which is more scum motivated.

This. I'd consider switching to gonnano, but my hunch is that PI is a godfather, so....

This. A thousand times this. PoisonIvy blatantly asked to be investigated and then defended the claim by saying she "no qualms about being investigated if someone deems me worthy of it," which doesn't even need to be said because that is what cops do. Cops investigate people they deem worthy of being investigated. It's a terrible explanation and an obvious "please investigate me because your result will be innocent."

3. Well, no, I still like PI's wagon. The problem is that PI gave up on playing and ideally I'd like to see a replacement before it's pushed further. (Basically, for the same sentiment other players mentioned: you can't judge the reactions with the player not playing.)

Scum godfathers should be lynched regardless of anything, replacement or otherwise.

jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Cue 3 votes in less than two hours after this post. Something's up.

While jmj's being odd and I see the reasoning behind the wagon

, it's a bit of a stretch IMO - I'll chalk it up to his playstyle. The wagon speed is too iffy for me and I don't like GW and smarg being on that wagon, either.

What do you think is up? Do you think three scum partners are trying to initiate this bandwagon or something? Please elaborate on the bolded comment because in the context of your entire post it makes no sense.

So far, I could see myself potentially voting PI, Jmj, or Thad (in order of preference) if the deadline was getting close.

And yet you are voting none of these people.

Personally I feel ThAd is town and those pushing his wagon are trying to save scum-jmj at this point. Just my gut.

Give me the summation of why you think jmj3000 is scum.

[Stephoscope]

Now that Furcolow has claimed bulletproof, is there any reason he shouldn't fullclaim?

[Amrun]

Okay, I'm going to do something I might catch flak for. I think the game is somehow simultaneously stagnating and heading towards a mislynch and I want to help out the town in any way I can...

I am General McArthur. I silence one player during the night and they can't vote next day. I'm US. I am town.

At this point, you either believe me or don't. McArthur being town is a huge reason for PI to think it is US vs. Soviet. Do I necessarily agree with her? No, but it does make it more likely.

For those unfamiliar, McArthur was basically a warmonger, but he's from the US and town in this game.

I understand the wagon on me. PI's play was scummy and I guess I'm still too inexperienced to redeem a scummy slot.

At least town can avoid a mislynch if they believe me, now. Scum might kill me at night but I was likely to be targetted if town had a nk anyway. That's why I decided to claim.

All my cards are now on the table.

[DavidParker]

Wtf. There's an artem and an amrun.

unvote, vote: amrun

[DavidParker]

So sticking with the theme, I actually saw Donka's A Letter to Checkhov at the theatre last night.

[Amrun]

David Parker, you still want to vote for me without even addressing my fullclaim...?

[DavidParker]

I want to vote for you based on the fact I was meant to be voting you earlier. That's where I wanted my vote to be so I'm putting it where it was intended to be. Right now, I'm thinking over your claim and will post a response to it in due time. I don't see how the role you described couldn't be a scum role, so that makes me wary of you. Especially since you nameclaimed "General", ie: someone affiliated with the war efforts. I can quite likely see your character being scum even if the rest of your claim is true.

[smargaret]

I agree with DP. I don't see much of a way your claimed role can be useful to town and I can see plenty of ways it's useful to scum. I also don't see how MacArthur-town fits with the wincon in the role PM I received. Also, why would you claim when you're nowhere near a lynch?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

[LimMePls]

- Why the hell is PI/PI's Replacement still alive? Scumsliped on like page three... "I wouldn't mind being investigated" just reeks of a godfather or investi-immune scum bragging.

You're preaching to the choir. LMP doesn't want to admit to it, but he completely derailed what was a solid wagon on Ivy. Now all these people are voting ThAdmiral, and I don't know what they're not getting from him. I'm reading his responding posts, and I just don't sense anything particularly suspicious here. Maybe you don't go for the argument that she slipped up during the opening pages. You know, that's fine, that's a really setup-heavy argument. It's debatable. You can't really ignore the fact that Ivy was bragging about how she'd be "willing to be investigated" in an attempt to make herself sound townie. It just sounds off.

Unvote

;

vote: Amrun

Don't confuse Artem for Amrun, guys.

Ya, I derailed a wagon that had stalled for like a week and a half. You're SOOO right...

[LimMePls]

unvote
vote: amrum

To be honest this is much more for things PosionIvy said as Amrum's been pretty ok. I don't like voting someone for what their predecessor did as a general rule, but a scummy slot

is

a scummy slot after all.

ThAd wagon is STILL awesome.

[LimMePls]

Because I don't think your claim has helped us determine much at all. It seemed more you were just bored and wanted to shake things up more than anything else.

Needless to say I am against unnecessary claiming, but I don't want to get in to a discussion about the pros and cons of claiming - that is a mafia theory discussion and would perhaps be something best addressed after the game in the proper forum.

If it's needless to say, then why the hell are you saying it?

This is the "let me say lots of things about what defines pro-town things to look like I'm pro-town" tell.

[LimMePls]

Oh, and Amrun's role ability sounds scummy to me.

[Amrun]

As I said earlier in the game, I would have expected to see my own character on scumside. For this reason, I think a US vs Soviet set up is most likely.

I understand the concerns being brought up. I didn't create my own character, so that's not my decision.

I planned to use my role to silence votes from likely scum, or, lacking a good candidate, a VI. I was surprised to see my ability, as I think silencing is rare on townside, but it is what it is.

My win-con is "you win when all the threats to the peace are dead" or something along those lines. This is what makes me doubt Soviet vs. US despite my role. I think most likely is town (US), Soviet (mafia), other nationalities (third party), since Fuzzyman's slot claimed another nationality. Still, this is not for sure. Why hasn't Fuzzyman's slot received more pressure for this scummy statement? I just don't get it. I tried to put more pressure on and somehow got portrayed as scum for doing so.

I claimed for the same reasons I stated above. I wasn't close to lynch yet, but I could see it heading that way and before it got to the point of no return, I wanted to give the town what information I had so that they could re-assess before final vote.

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

Another reason I did it is because it seemed to me that people were 100% convinced of my scumminess due to PI's play and PI's play alone, with one or two exceptions. It made me curious... Could ANYTHING I could have done reversed the thoughts of those players pushing my wagon... Even a full reveal? Apparently not.

At this point, I'm done arguing. I've given absolutely everything I have to give. If town still finds me suspicious, then whatever. Not my problem anymore.

As for my personal vote, I'm happy with my ThAd vote.

[LimMePls]

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

All three perhaps?

[Amrun]

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

All three perhaps?

That's actually EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Scum votes for the competing wagon... Obvious self-preservation, but he can pass it off as OMGUS, which is not always seen as scummy. The competing wagon gets another vote and is closer to being lynched, yet scum does not automatically get extra suspicion because of it.

Seems like a scumplay to me -- a good one, actually, and probably his best bet as scum at this point.

By itself it says nothing, but in context, I think it does.

[Amrun]

I meant to say that if it really was OMGUS, it probably would have happened sooner. ThAd's lack of vote(s) is something I've noted before this.

Anyway, it's only one tiny thing in a long list of things.

[Amrun]

Oh, I meant to add that even though silencing is a strange town ability, it makes perfect sense with the theme. He was a blacklister, after all. Silencing is what he did to people in real life.

[DavidParker]

I just deleted a big post on setup speculation because yeah I don't really want to reveal much more at this point although what I think I'm saying is obvious, maybe it's not for scum.

Anyways, I think Amrun is likely scum at this point. There's no logical reasoning to jump to a US = town and soviet = scum conclusion at this point. There's no information suggesting as such. It is likely a slip. Adding to that is Amrun's claim that suggets he is a person advocating war (ie: "General") and his role has an ability more likely to be seen on a scum-player. While the claim doesn't seem likely from scum, he did try to play off his role as town, the fact he stated that at the end of his claim makes me believe he is maybe scum trying to pass off his role as a town-aligned one. I think it's time for a lynch, ThAd lynch isn't happening.

Amrun, you're recent posts aren't helping. I'm not denying or suggesting I don't believe you are General McArthur (a "blacklister"), but there's no game-related info pointing towards US = Town. So claiming a US-aligned role does not indicate towards you being town at all. The only thing indicating towards being town would be claiming a role or name-claiming a figure who would be advocating "peace" (as that is town win con, to "eliminate threats to peace"). I don't see how a general is attempting to eliminate threats to peace. An American general is trying to eliminate Soviets more or less (yes that's dumbed down). You are trying to suggest US = Town, which I doubt is the case. Your name claim is scummy, your role you claimed is scummy, and you are trying to suggest it is town because you are American.

Your latest post,

Oh, I meant to add that even though silencing is a strange town ability, it makes perfect sense with the theme. He was a blacklister, after all. Silencing is what he did to people in real life.

This isn't even a defense. This is you stating why your ability matches your name claim. It doesn't state why your name claim or role is a town aligned one. It still makes more sense for it to be scum-aligned.

[Amrun]

I didn't say he was a general. He's not.


But after I saw your post, I went back and actually checked... It's McCarthy, not McArthur. That's my bad and I'll probably get lynched for it. All the things I said about McArthur I actually meant McCarthy. I didn't confuse people, just the actual name.

And I never said the set up was DEFINITELY US vs. Soviet. I said that because McCarthy was so hungry for war, I might have expected to see him on the scum side, but he's not. This makes a US vs. Soviet set up more credible, but it's not a sure thing. I never said it was. I ONLY said this at all because of the original confusion about PI's statement. I wouldn't have speculated on it at all if not for that.


And AGAIN, I am done defending. I have fully role revealed. There is NOTHING ELSE I CAN DO.

If you don't believe my role, I can't help that. It was the role I was given.

[LimMePls]

Ok, your role now makes INFINITELY more sense as McCarthy than McArthur. McCarthy silencing people is like perfect flavor fit, they just "plead the 5th".

[Amrun]

Yeah, I realize that now. What an idiot move on my part.

My thinking was that I'd be more likely to "paraphrase" if I didn't go re-read my role description, and therefore when I said it would sound natural and not rehearsed. Rehearsed role reveals look scummy, imho.

Obviously this was a mistake and I'm an stupid. Ugh.

[Amrun]

HAHA. "I'm an stupid."

It just keeps getting better.

[DavidParker]

[/quote="Amrun"]I am General McArthur.[/quote]

Please do help me out.. Your role pm would obviously have only stated general if your name character was a general. You then made a name claim using general, and you are saying you never said general??? I mean if you had typo'd McArthur instead of McCarthy that's one thing. But you used "General". Now you are saying you aren't a general and never said you were. This entire scenario is entirely implausible. PI's speculation aside, your claim is scummy. Especially this backpeddling and lying.

What is the EXACT name that you got in your role pm? Is it Joseph McCarthy? How did you end up typing General McArthur? I'm not asking you to defend persay, just help me understand.