Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[Quaroath]

1st! woot

[Quaroath]

Thread unlocking took sooo long, >_< happened to be on and saw the role pm pop up. Confirmed!

Vote: Splitfarvle

for being online at 12:32 AM pst. That's just fishy! (Pot, meet Kettle!)

[Quaroath]

Please pick an avatar Jack, makes i'ding posts and keeping em straight sooo much easier.

[Quaroath]

Yes. It's called irony. Did you note that I was teasing him about being online so late when I was too?

[Quaroath]

Since it wasn't Teasing directed at you, I didn't expect you to get it. How much you want to bet the person I was addressing got it? Keep thy nose outt of my playful banter not directed at you please. And um.... Do the time zone math to PST. Thanks.


FYI, it's four (4) hours.

[Quaroath]

I"m not angry, or even more than mildly annoyed. Split knew I meant him, which made my post make sense to the person i was ribbing. Beyond that it shouldn't be an issue and Stels making it one is... amusing. That said I don't know anyone in the game, first game, etc etc. Once the game starts I'll stop joking around, until then it's all just idle time where I'm antsy to get started.

This ain't my first forum rodeo, I know how it works.

[Quaroath]

Also, none of the votes above counted because they were pre-game.

I knew that, i was, get this, playing around!

[Quaroath]

oh yeah

Vote: Stels[/] Just ya know, being a snert.

[Quaroath]

Cracking tags are a pain didn't getthe bold.

vote: rain

cause I wanna vote for the ic first!

An no I have no idea who anyone here is online or offline.

[Quaroath]

Damn frenchie!

[Quaroath]

@T-Bone
I mean no disrespect =)

@Quaroath
At the bottom of the page, the forum lists who's currently browsing the forum board. Note however that you have the power to never reveal yourself online, even when you are browsing.

Do you think being an IC is a scumtell?

I'm aware of the who's browsing/anon functions. Thats what caused the little dust up pregame with me and skels.

And no, being an IC isn't a scum tell. Assuming the mod distributes the roles randomly that is, and prefer giving the mod the benefit of the doubt there. I just wanted to vote for ya for a crappy reason.

[Quaroath]

@Quaroath Why did you say that you knew Split was online at 12:32, yet you say that

An no I have no idea who anyone here is online or offline.

Preview edit: .. never mind, wait, I think we're just reading the line wrong (re Rain's reply too) and he meant "I don't know anyone here, online or offline" as opposed to "I don't know how to tell if anyone here is online or offline"

Never mind, Quar, ignore that bit, but leaving it in there in case anyone else was as confused as me.

As much as you say ignore it, just for clarities sake to hopefully bury the pregame inanity in PREGAME. I don't know anyone else in the game in any form shape or manner outside this specific game. knew split was online because it said at the bottom of the page that he was looking at the thread at the same time I was, when i made the post at 12:33 am PST that it was scummy to be on at 12:32 am PST. Thats where the pot meet kettle crack comes in.

I will refuse to address this inane conversational thread henceforth. If what I just said isn't enough for everyone... *shrug*

[Quaroath]

EBWOP: I hope none took that previous post as a personal shot (Especially Ellyssa), it's just a little silly that Skels blew a joke out of proportion like he did and I don't want to leave a grey area people can float in on it.

[Quaroath]

One more thing, remember, the IC can be scum. He can give out all this good info and there might be an evil mastermind behind him. So just keep that in mind. Its not that I'm accusing Rain of anything

QTF. Though, I'd hope that Rain has a IC mode and a player mode. Laying stuff out as "From the IC to forward the scum line if the IC is scum is.. well.. scummy. (ha) That's not a comment of Rain either, just a comment on the IC system as a whole.

[Quaroath]

Quaroath and Rain if you look at my join date I have only been playing a little over a week, I work, the mafia servers have been difficult, and as I stated in my first post to say hello I mentioned I was out of town and would not post til today. Therefore I apologize for any inconvenience or difficulties I may have put on anyone to read my only post in this game.

As for my vote I am going to no vote, it is day one there is not enough to place a vote on someone. I think that RVS is a dumb ass way to pick someone to vote based on their avatar or no avatar picture or even because you dont like someones name. No vote is a good way to go anyways... why kill off someone in RVS, that townie (you are most likely to lynch a townie D1 anyways) could be the person you need to win this game. So why make the game easier for the mafia, vote with me in a no vote and lets have a have a good fun game everyone.

Vote: No Vote

I noticed you were new, I was just asking you to get an avatar asap (which would be now, since you have) =D It's just friendly advise, we weren't jumping on you (at least, I wasn't). I understand outside of the game, I work 60 a eek and am in a Master's degree program. I know time crunch! It would have been a bigger issue (no avatar) after 5 or so pages.

That said... No voting is not really a good thing, it actually strikes me a bit off kilter. The RVS has function, putting people under pressure to spark conversation. No one (one hopes) will get lynched off the RVS and without the information it generates we can't really move forward with the game, we end up holding hands and singing "Ashes, Ashes, We all fall down"

VOTE: Vote: Jack Forman in a for reals not RVS vote manner. Slighly suspicious that you want to slow the flow of information.

[Quaroath]

I am not trying to slow down the flow of information. I am only thinking that I am a town person or supposed to appear to be a town person, just like you.

I can understnad the initial though process here.

A No Vote would prove beneficial to the town, because there is not enough to go off of to assume anyone is scum.

This is the point of the RVS, in essence. I deeply disagree that a No-Vote is beneficial to town. If we No-Lynch day 1, we only hurt ourselves.

Most likely we will lynch a townie D1.

Considering it's 7v2, yes that is true. 78% change, rounded. IT's self evident, yet you need to point it out. Scum likes to state the obvious while trying to seem like they are contributing. Not sure if this is scum-tell or newbie-tell atm. Leaning newbie though.

By Voteing againts a person that is a no vote you kind of look scummy, if you were town would just ignore me and continue to RVS.

From outside of myself voting for you, if someone else did the same thing and I'm looking outside in I'm pretty sure I do' come off hella scummy.

No-Vote is bad for town

Bolded for emphasis. I don't think it makes me look scummy for calling you on a (likely newbie oriented) move that can do nothing but help scum.

So obviously my no vote did apply pressure. You say I am trying to relieve pressure but I obviously am applying pressure if it convinced you to vote against another townie.

I honestly can't wrap me head around this one. It's just backwards logic in my head. Anyways, your no vote got us past the RVS, that's for sure. I'm really getting a poor town vibe from some particular aspects of each of your posts. I'm pretty happy where my vote is, for the time being.

[Quaroath]

If we do vote chances are we will be 5 vs 2. And our chances are even worse. And yes, I am really casting a "No Vote"

Just to address this first:

I find it foolish to assume a doc, or a successful doc protect with one, so I'll do this math without a doc factored in.

If we no lynch D1:
N1, Mafia kills someone, down to 6 town, 2 mafia.

D2, We lynch, and miss. after the NK it's 4-2 A mis lynch ends the game, as after the NK it's 2-2. Mafia win.

We get two - three attempts on two mafia. That's very very hard when they only constitute 22% of the players

If we no Lynch D1 and D2:
N1 mafia kills, 6v2, N2 mafia kill, 5v2, one mis lynch results in a mafia win. We get a total of one lynch to gather information.

If we lynch D1 two things happen:

We hit a mafia. It's then 6v1 after the night, and we have D2, D3, and D4 to catch the last mafia assuming poor lynches D2 and D3, D4 is 2 town 1 mafioso.

We hit a townie. Crap. Now it's 5v2, We miss again Day 2. 3v2, we hit, 2v1, D4

Total days and lynches, 4, either way.


I'm not about to throw away a chance to hit scum, not lynching is so much worse for town than lynching a townie it's not funny.

I'm hoping laying it out like this helps explain that while, yes, lynching a townie is bad, not lynching anyone is far far worse.

One no lynch hurts... a lot. And frankly 5v2 is better odds for town than 6v2. 5v2 = 70% vs 30%, 6v2 = 75% vs 25%.

[Quaroath]

Ebwop: the quote in my last post was something jack said, not Ellyssa. I botched the tag when I cut the post I quoted down

[Quaroath]

And Stels I do apologize. I don't know how but I really got it in my head your name was/is skels. So while it was on purpose, I was just being a retard and couldn't keep your name straight in my head.

[Quaroath]

Saying the day 1 lynch is random is a fallacy.

[Quaroath]

I am scared.

What the hell did I get more votes than Jack? What.

I know lynches are not random, I think only Day 1 lynches are, right? Because we have no solid info.

They are informed decisions, if it was random we'd just roll a 9 sided die, and string someone up.
We may be interpreting things incorrectly, and we might lynch a townie,

but it is not random.

For the love of Pete stop calling it random, that is false. (see above post re:fallacy)

I'm confused (and too much information, trying to catch up), if you don't lynch with 3x1, you'll get to 2x1. If you mis-lynch, mafia wins, too. Wait, I get it, 2x1 is LyLo! *winner* Are you saying the odds of getting it right are better? Since it's not random, well, at that point in the game you probably have strong feelings against someone. It makes sense. Didn't think of that. But letting a townie die is not intuitive! D=

3x1 is not LyLo

technically

but it is Lynch

correctly

or lose. No Lynching takes it too 2v1, and removes a suspect. I'd rather play the 33% game than the 25% game, even without accounting for gathered information. It may seem wrong but it's the right play. I do agree it's counter intuitive. One of those few times No-Lynch is the right call. The townie that dies to a mislynch D1 is just as much a winner as the last townie NK'd. We win or lose as a team. That also brings me back to Jack not wanting to vote, etc etc, and why I was so hard on him about it.

My main problem is that lynching a townie in the first day makes our numbers good, but - kills a townie! I want to keep throwing stuff around until we get something heavier from someone.

The reality is we are probably going to string up a townie or two, the odds are low barring either A.) Spectacular town play, or B.) really sad scum play, that we don't. It's a sad cruel world out there Plus we have what.. three weeks to talk and make informed choices? We'll keep tossing stuff around and extraction information. I can't imagine us making a decision as a group this soon.

Fence-sitting means taking no sides? Because I'm not sure Jack's not mafia? I'm not, he could be! Don't think so, otherwise I'd vote for him, but if he is and I'm mistaken, I'm not giving my word he's not.

Pretty much, fence sitting is ensuring you can safely land on either side of an issue, depending on how others react. You seem to be setting yourself up for a "Well if A is scum, i thought so too" or a "Well if A flips town, I told you so." line after an alignment flip.

Rain can probably explain this better, it's just what I feel you are doing re: Jack

[Quaroath]

I'm not currently feeling a jack lynch. Too new, too little info. I thought about moving my vote to barefoot last night, but that'd put her at L-1 and I'm not comfortable with that righ now. That said,

unvote

. Barefoot, you seem to be appealing to emotion too in your last couple posts.

FoS: barefoot

[Quaroath]

A large part of my post depth depends on if I'm posting from my phone or computer. If I'm not quoting, in general I'm on my phone as I am now. I saw jacks question las t night when I was out (GO BLAZERS) and was just eyeing the thread during halftime. I forgot about it when I got home after the game. I'll address it when I get home since quoting on my phone is a pita and I want to excise the quotes that bothered me.
Jack reads increasingly as newbie. I can't really put an alignment on him though he is pinging my scumdar. I unvoted for two reasons. 1.) I think for what it was we've gotten all the info from pressuring jack over the no vote bit we can. If I return my vote to him I want it to be clear my vote is there for more than just the no vote issue. 2.) I would be voting barefoot right now if it wouldn't put her at l-1. I don't really feel that leaving a vote on jack would convey that I'd rather vote barefoot, but don't want to enter quickhammer territory so soon. I'd rather pull my vote for now.

I'm feeling a barefoot-Stels scumteam at the moment. I don't know where the vote count is and addin it up manually on my iPhone is a pain. Not sure what vote count stels is at, or I'd vote him.

Again, on my phone, will explain both more in depth tonight once I'm off work.

[Quaroath]

Sorry for being such a NOOB that you all are so willing to point out, here is my final vote.

Vote: NO LYNCH

In essence, you are saying you don't want to play the game. You just want to watch us play. Awesome.

Policy lynch on this is "Lynch the useless player" or "Lynch the newbie who doesn't care that more people than there are total mafia are telling him a no-lynch is anti town, as if he is town, he's not going to help find scum"

Jack, No Lynch D1 is a poor play for the town, Period. It isn't done because it's a bad play. Part of the SE and IC job is to give new players this knowledge. Please listen to them. I can't believe you don't think *someone* is a bit scummy.

[Quaroath]

RE: Jack giving me poor town vibe:

I'm really getting a poor town vibe from some particular aspects of each of your posts.

How do I have a "poor town vibe" if I am trying to conserve townies? What do you mean I have a poor town vibe?

I am not trying to slow down the flow of information.

Maybe not by intent, but that's what you are doing pushing a no-lynch

I am only thinking that I am a town person or supposed to appear to be a town person, just like you.

Yeah, that statement isn't fishy

at all.

A No Vote would prove beneficial to the town, because there is not enough to go off of to assume anyone is scum.

False. Been covered enough.

Most likely we will lynch a townie D1.

True, just on shear odds.

By Voteing againts a person that is a no vote you kind of look scummy, if you were town would just ignore me and continue to RVS.

If you say so.

So obviously my no vote did apply pressure.

To yourself?!?

If that was the goal... okay. Well done.

You say I am trying to relieve pressure but I obviously am applying pressure if it convinced you to vote against another townie.

Here you say you are a townie again. You keep saying it like you feel a need to proclaim your alignment. I also find it interesting that you say "another townie", which implies you know my alignment.. which you only could as scum. Smells like a slip of the tongue (or keyboard, if you will.)

The problem with no-lynch is that the Mafia will then get a free NK on a townie on Night 1, and then we'll be down to 6 vs. 2, and that's being optimistic

If we do vote chances are we will be 5 vs 2. And our chances are even worse. And yes, I am really casting a "No Vote"

5v2 is better for town that 6v2. This isn't something that can really be argued effectively.

That post, plus your even further repeated pushing of No lynch is setting off my alarms so badly I'm having to force myself to not react with an F this, string the bastard up reaction.

The problem is I don't really think you are scum, I am starting to think you are just mule headed new player town. You are playing a poor pro town game. You put off seriously poor town vibes refusing to do what is best for town. There is a difference between "scum vibes" and "poor town vibes" One indicates I think you are scum, the other means I think you are probably town, but just playing poor.


Hmm... can't figure out how to link posts (so the link itself is "this post" and you click "this post" to go to the post.

So, Jack, your post #82 in the thread makes me want to bang my head on the wall.

I don't think barefoot meant it personally when she said you read to noob to be mafia, it's just her way of saying "he's doing so much to draw attention to himself and playing so blatantly anti-town, I can't believe he'd do that as mafia who want to not gain attention and be the spotlight/lightning rod like you are now."

Continuing to say a no-lynch is the way to go when it has been explained by 4-5 people that it is bad play and that is only hurts town on day 1, is just anti town. If you are town, you are trying to hurt the town more than help it. If you are town, and you get yourself lynched because of this, you aren't helping town win, you are helping mafia win.

[Quaroath]

Eyylssa, strong pro town vibe right now. Agree, Disagree? Discuss!

Working on my scum thoughts post for a while.

[Quaroath]

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me for a reason I can't get my head around. It is purely a gut feeling, it just feels wrong. I'll try to figure out why while rereading.

[Quaroath]

Quaroath.

You've followed me in my vote for Jack Forman. You followed me in my vote for Barefoot-fighter. While I appreciate your support, it seems oddly convenient and safe, for a newbie game, to follow an IC.

If by, I woke up and voted afer you had already voted, your darn tooting I "followed" your vote. I've also been open about my reasons and far more detailed that saying "OMG IC SAYS SCUM, MUST VOTE"

And I haven't voted barefoot, I'm as you point out later

IN YOUR OWN POST

, not voting. Misrepresent much? Is that not scummy? dun.. dun.. DUNNNNNN

Part of the SE and IC job is to give new players this knowledge. Please listen to them.

The above is a logical fallacy, namely an Appeal to Authority. I do no expect anyone to blindly listen to me, or any other player. I give what information I can, and advocate others to use critical thinking to come up with their own conclusions. At times, I may persuade others to join my cause, but they must base their judgement on the logic of my case, not simply because I'm an IC.

For the record, this is what I said:

Jack, No Lynch D1 is a poor play for the town, Period. It isn't done because it's a bad play.

Part of the SE and IC job is to give new players this knowledge. Please listen to them

. I can't believe you don't think *someone* is a bit scummy.

I bolded the small bit of that you actually quoted for a reason.

While granting an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you are drastcally misrepresenting the context that I was speaking, which was purely, "Look Jack, the Ic's and both SE's and a couple other people have said no-lynch is bad for the town, and have backed it up with statistics and reasoned logic, please listen to them."

Saying it's anything more is, again, a misrepresentation of the context I was posting in. I never said listen to them in who to lynch, or blindly follow the IC/SE (which is what you make that sound like). Stop quoting me out of context please, it's scummy as hell.

I also notice that you've mentioned everyone at least once but muh316. Though it is not mentioned in the wiki, newbscums tend to ignore their partner a bit. The goal would seemingly be to keep a neutral view on one another, so if one is caught, the link between the two scums can not be brought to light. Under normal circumstances, I would probably let it slide. However, again, Quaroath, you've mentioned everyone at least once. But muh316.

Another lie, I haven't mentioned muh316 or T-bone. Please quit lying. Isn't LaL a good strategy? As far as Muh316, Haven't had anything really to say to/at him. As for T-bone, i honestly forgot he was even in the game until he hopped in an hour or so ago. (i'll address this post in a minute.)

It also doesn't help that all muh316 has done is active lurking.

(Quick summary of what lurking/active lurking is:
Lurking means not posting often. It can be a scum tactic, if they see that the rest of the town are aimlessly pushing mislynches around. However, I find it more indicative to the player's commitment to the game rather than his alignment. Active lurking is much worse, and can be exemplified in muh316's post style so far. In 6 posts, he has exactly 0 contribution to the advancement of the game. He doesn't find anyone scummy, doesn't post much opinion of his own. That, my friends, is active lurking.)

Thus, it seems we have caught our Quaroath - muh316 scum team.

Or is that muh316+quaroath+T-bone, since you are picking the people I haven't directly addressed? Make up your mind.

The following is rather minor, and more of a personal opinion: don't unvote needlessly. Unvoting an RVS vote defeats the purpose of RVS. If you no longer find one person scummy, surely someone else looks scummy in comparison. Townies have an interest to be transparent, and voting is a good.

This to misrepresents what I said in the same friggen post I unvoted in. I said I'd vote for Stels if I knew what the vote count was, but since I was on my phone, I wasn't going to risk putting him at L-1.

Now that the vote count is updated: VOTE: Rain Misrepresents or lies flat out 3 times in one post. Oh yeah, I'm comfy.

[Quaroath]

EBWOP: Correcting myself, I addressed a Muh316 post once, saying it felt real real bad. Still... that took until post 84. Not tons of interaction.

T-bone and muh316 both are hella laying low right now. If you want to tie me to active lurkers use em all please.

Vote Count

barefootfighter (1) - Ellyssa
Rain (1) - Quaroath
Jack Forman (1) - Stels
Stels (1) - T-Bone
Quaroath (1) - Rain
No Lynch (1) - Jack Forman

Not Voting (3) - splitfarvle, muh316, barefoot-fighter

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Quaroath]

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me.

Because he's....scum??

I'll get to you Day 2 bud. I think Stels should still be our Day 1 lynch.

I'm not scum. I'm just stating that the Mafia is pretty much laughing at this guy. A policy lynch is better than a no lynch.

I highly doubt there will be a no-lynch. Just sayin. Jack seems like he won't be convinced otherwise so we'll have to get 5 votes from 8 people. I think there are far better candidates than Jack to lynch D1. (Barefoot, stels, rain, T-bone) to name a few.

[Quaroath]

@Jack Forman: Yet again, my opinion of you hasn't changed. You are still insecure about trying to lynch someone, choosing the easier option of a no-lynch. Your character is that of someone who fears the consequences, which I see in a scum-light. You're afraid that if you vote for someone and lynch that person, you will be seen as scum for lynching that townie, which you are definitely afraid of. The fact that you refuse to scum-hunt in general is also something that is unacceptable and anti-town, especially since you said that was your "final" vote. My vote stays.

I'm feeling a barefoot-Stels scumteam at the moment. I don't know where the vote count is and addin it up manually on my iPhone is a pain. Not sure what vote count stels is at, or I'd vote him.

You never got around to explaining this part and despite having posted the several large posts that most certainly did not come from your phone, you still haven't voted me in any way possible, even before voting for Rain. The fact that you arrived at a Me + barefoot-fighter scumteam so early into the game is also rather ridiculous.

Debatable on ridiculousness. You two at the time were the two most likely scum for me. Both are still top 3. I'm sorry? It was what I was feeling, and I am trying to get people to discuss multiple items of interest for me. The fact that *no-one* but you asked A.) About that though, and B.) Seems to have noticed I didn't elaborate is interesting to me.

I also like how everyone in this game is discussing possible situations that this game might come to when we are still only in Day 1 and have no progress whatsoever to even consider these circumstances. What I'm seeing here is a mass-diversion from trying to scum-hunt and get the town actually moving. The people that did this are: barefoot-fighter, Ellyssa, Jack Forman, Quaroath and Rain.
Ellyssa and Jack Forman are slightly unrelated to actually diverting attention elsewhere, but Ellyssa contributed a small amount and Jack Forman is definitely the cause of this all. Rain is the IC and I know that his role is to explain and correct the situation, but he is still one of those people who keep up the conversation about it instead of going the other way.
Concluding that list, one of the scum is highly likely to be in the barefoot-fighter, Quaroath and Rain group. Barefoot-fighter definitely strikes as suspicious now, with her "freaked-out" reactions about the votes that have been acquired by her, especially comparing herself to Jack, which is odd. She definitely seems scummy the way she stands now.

HoS: barefoot-fighter

Cute HoS. Anyways as far as that entire conversational thread, i'm done. I don't feel like banging my head against the Jack No-Lynch wall anymore. I agree with the idea that either barefoot or rain is scum though. Pretty sure I'm not.

@T-Bone: apart from one-liners and a few phrases in your previous post, you haven't actually said much and are already bent on a definite lynch. Bit under the radar, might I add.

@Everyone: Remember, I am still V/LA. I'll try to post when I can, but that's not a guarantee.

Agree on T-bone. Contribution = nigh zero.


BTW Pneumonia sucks. That is all.

[Quaroath]

@Quaroath

While it's true you haven't voted for barefoot, #76 tells me you had the intention, just not the commitment.

In my own post, I did make a mistake. It was supposed to be T-Bone, and not muh316. Let me reiterate with the correction:
You've mentioned everybody at least once, except for T-Bone.

Well, that was true until I pointed that out.

It's easy to call misrepresentations, and provide details after the fact eh?

I'm also concerned as to why you added T-Bone to your scumlist randomly, despite claiming you've forgotten he even existed.

I also corrected my own f up on muh in an Edit by way of post. Still, not a lot of interaction with me an muh. As far as T-bone goes, anyone that I forget about being in the game is aggro lurking and is by definition, suspicious. You pretty much did what i did, mess up part of a post and ebwop. i'm not sure how big of an afer the fact for either of us the ebwop was since it was nigh immediately for both of us.

As far as T-bone being on the scum list, I'm haven't put a scum list out there. I have put a list out of people I think would be far more productive lynches for informational purposes. That list is Barefoot, stels, rain, T-bone over lynching Jack on a policy lynch.

I'm comfortable with Ellyssa atm, Jack strikes me as new townie at this point, and split feels town as well.

I dont really have a read i'd trust on muh or T-bone due to lack of contribution. Barefoot likes to appeal to emotion, Stels made a really forceful push to blow pre-game joke out of proportion, and you are twisting my words, frequently. You also want people to think I'm bandwagoning your votes, which I most certainly am not.

[Quaroath]

@Quaroath #90 To make a link you do

Code: Select all

[url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2842875#p2842875]Insert name here[/url]

and you get the url itself by right clicking the #number at the top of each post and copying that URL. At least that's what I've been doing. You can quote any post with a link to see the tags they used in the edit box window too.

@Quaroath #91 Not that I don't appreciate it, cause I do, and I have a fairly strong pro-town on you just because we've been agreeing a lot, I just hope you don't flip Mafia in the end and in the meantime are setting this up to sell as an excuse (oh, she was the most pro-town) for a N1 NK or something, since you only pointed me out and no one else.. but we'll see I guess.

I really want to know if others are getting the same read, more than anything. >_<

I think my other stronger town reads at the moment besides Q are Rain and perhaps Jack, even though they're both on the opposite ends of that no-lynch thing, though I'd probably lynch Jack over no-lynch at the end of Day 1 if it came to that, as the lesser of two evils. I'd have to think very hard on that one though (the argument of stubbornness, vs a heavy dose of WIFOM to make himself seem too-obvMafia to be Mafia). Likely depends how you play between now and that time, Jack.

@Quaroath 101 Oh also, bumped this up to here because it ties in to the last one. Just a quick note that if we don't agree on someone to lynch at the end of the deadline, it still becomes no-lynch, whether we actually vote NL or not. That's what I thought he meant (ie he's our fallback at the end of the day) and thus why I didn't think that

#84[/url]]
muh316 wrote:Guess we have our policy lynch...

seemed scummy at first. It does sound a bit flippant though. Not sure if that's some kind of tell.

Jack is a lynch of last resort in my mind. I really don't want to policy lynch D1. Lynching Jack will provide very little information for the town, as things stand. I can't even really get behind a muh bandwagon over this post. Doe it rub me wrong, hell yes. Doesn't rub me scummy wrong though. More "Well that's just not helpful AT ALL" wrong.

@T-Bone

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me.

Because he's....scum??

I'll get to you Day 2 bud. I think Stels should still be our Day 1 lynch.

(Man, the nested quotes)

You found the two scum really fast! Congrats! Actually your reasonings for both seem kind of flimsy.. mainly that you latched onto a single dubious scum tell likely partly based on timing and timezones (who gets on and reads/posts first) and used that as the only argument so far against Stels. Granted he hasn't posted much more.. nm, preview edit, he has now! Have your views on Stels changed upon reviewing his newest post? What do you feel about Barefoot or perhaps Quaroath?

@Stels I did read that a scumtell was that Mafia were more likely to try to talk about mechanics and less about the game to distract conversation. But my main motivation (and I think the others too) for arguing against Jack was that it was essentially a lost vote on Day 1 which we needed to try to get back. And that was best case scenario (worst was that enough people agreed with him right away). Essentially he's now a tree stump for D1, and one with no incentive to participate and an 'excuse' to lurk to D2. Plus it was the first issue out of RVS to comment on. I'm not sure the issue has really gone away, Jack's just not a rabid poster like us and hasn't replied back yet.. but he did re-vote no lynch after I asked him if that was what his stance was.

QFT

@Quaroath in #100 and @Rain in #96 I agree T-bone and muh are kind of laying low. Even Stels (Which I just had to edit out of that list!) who's mostly V/LA just posted as much as they've posted all game.

But still early, I guess, but I don't really have reads on T-Bone or muh yet as they haven't really contributed much analysis (they both have, a little, in one post each.)

Neither has split.
@split Do you have any particular reads on people besides Jack that you want to share? I think you brought up an interesting coaching point at Rain back in #85, though that could be a rather WIFOM-y argument, but like Rain said, may be useful in the future if either of them flip scum. What do you think of barefoot?

@barefoot .. hm, never mind, she said she may be away for a day or two. Still the most suspicious read so far in my opinion, but perhaps due to nerves or something. Definitely interested in hearing your catch-up post and thoughts on others after.

Sorry about shoddiness at the end, have to run for now.

I adressed mu/tabone/split and my feelings in my last post. I still think barefoot is a good D1 lynch.

[Quaroath]

I think we'd learn from a T-bone lynch. If T-bone flipped scum I'd be extra comfy with a Rain lynch the day after. Lurking is always an interesting, lets say, tactic. While T-bone's last post was helpful it wasn't blow me out of the water helpful.. The fact that he doesn't have an opinion on me actually really bothers me as well. 5 pages (and me walling text a few times) and you can't get a feel for me?

My preferred D1 lynch is either barefoot or rain right now. I'd be comfortable with either. Gotta run for the moment. I'll iso read muh in light of your thoughts after my doctors appointment.

[Quaroath]

Can you elaborate on how a T-Bone scum flip would make me scummy? You're just stringing lynches up with no apparent logic here.

I think that there is a decent chance that you are trying to tie me to t-bone, with him being your partner. You call me and him out as a team, setting yourself up for a buss on him followed by saying "See I told you they were the scum team". Call it a gut feeling on that. Knowing my alignment makes me pretty sure I'm not in a scum team with T-bone (or anyone for that matter), but you seem to want to establish early a link between us. That's where that thought process comes from. Oddly, if T-bone didn't flip scum, I'd consider you a strong pro town feel. His card flip would give me a lot of information about you. Therefor, it'd be very informative. Which was my entire point as far as policy lynch vs informational lynch.

Note: I'm not even trying to push a T-bone lynch. Please don't make it out like I am.


@Rain, out of curiosity, why are you after me more than T-bone? I don't see you really going after him at all (distancing maybe) but mostly focusing on me. I read your posts as "Well, T-Bone is active lurking, which is scummy, and Quaroath isn't talking about him, so I'll vote Quaroath."

How inaccurate is that understanding that I have? I have to be missing something.

[Quaroath]

Can you explain to me Quaroth how you're contributing? Posting the same wall of information post after post is not "contributing". That is just posting for the sake of posting.

I keep seeing my name getting tossed out as "not contributing." Can someone explain to me how I am "not contributing?" Wait I get it, I'm not quoting people and typing huge walls of meaningless text. Got it. I need to do more of that.

Damn right.

Because I sure as hell am contributing more than you Quaroth. Hell, Spitfavle caught you in a contradiction. All you are doing Quaroth is throwing accusations left and right. That's far from contributing. Dare I say that's more along the lines of activity trolling, so people will say "that guy is so pro-town, look at how much he posts."

Debatable, on multiple points. Split didn't catch me in a contradiction. I don't really have a good feel for you on pro-town or anti-town. I still maintain a lynch on you is far better than a policy lynch on jack. I haven't waffled on this. That's not saying I think you *should* be lynched. I just think a policy lynch is the worst possible solution today.

As far an contributions go, sure I'm rather vocal about how I feel on people. I can post less if you'd like? If I see something I want to respond too, I respond to it.

At this point I would be quite surprised if split, ellyssa, or Jack turned up scum. Everyone else, not so much. I'm 80% sure that either rain or barefoot is scum. T-bone and muh316 are middle of the road, and wouldn't shock me either way.

[Quaroath]

@T-bone aside from the theory of activity trolling, you haven’t said what you think of me. I really can’t believe you don’t have some idea where I fall. So what is it? You seem to want to not give an opinion on me.

I'll go ahead and

Unvote

for now.
Barefoot was pretty scared when she had 3 votes on her. This seems suspicious to me. She also placed an OMGUS on me. Also suspicious. I personally don't like giving out these instead of votes, but

FOS Barefoot-fighter

To the people saying we should no lynch, its a bad idea. Don't ask it just is, we know by experience.

I hadn’t realized how little Muh has addressed anything not Jack/no-lynch related. The above post is the only post of substance from Muh that wasn’t related to the no-lynch issue. And even it touches on the no-lynch drama.

@Muh - Why did you unvote Barefoot just to FoS her, when she was still L-2? OMGUS votes happen, and from new players I don’t find then particularly suspicious. Barefoot wasn’t in any real danger of getting lynched and L-2, but you had to relieve pressure on her nonetheless? You even feel like you have to explain the FoS with I don’t like doing this, but I will anyways” justification. I agree with Split that’s kinda fishy.

In your last post Muh, you talk about finding and looking at flaws in posts. Have you found any you'd care to share?

Vote Count

muh316 (1) - splitfarvle
barefootfighter (1) - Ellyssa
Rain (1) - Quaroath
Jack Forman (1) - Stels
Stels (1) - T-Bone
Quaroath (1) - Rain
No Lynch (1) - Jack Forman

Not Voting (2) - muh316, barefoot-fighter

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Quaroath]

In the future I'll focus on not double/triple posting as much, I do realize it can be annoying and makes people less likely to read em. I'm just leery of posting one massive post over a couple smaller ones.

[Quaroath]

Debatable, on multiple points. Split didn't catch me in a contradiction.

I don't really have a good feel for you on pro-town or anti-town.

I still maintain a lynch on you is far better than a policy lynch on jack. I haven't waffled on this. That's not saying I think you *should* be lynched. I just think a policy lynch is the worst possible solution today.

As far an contributions go, sure I'm rather vocal about how I feel on people. I can post less if you'd like? If I see something I want to respond too, I respond to it.

At this point I would be quite surprised if split, ellyssa, or Jack turned up scum. Everyone else, not so much. I'm 80% sure that either rain or barefoot is scum. T-bone and muh316 are middle of the road, and wouldn't shock me either way.

Then I'm playing the way I want to play.

I'm not saying post less. I'm not saying "let's lynch this guy because he wants to lynch me".

My problem is, and I don't mean to pick on you, is that I've seen a lot of "T-Bone isn't contributing/T-Bone is lurking" etc. Which I don't get. It looks like to me "Damn, I need to put the heat on someone else. Hey, what about that T-Bone guy?"

It would be one thing if people were lurking. But all of us except the Mod and Barefoot have posted at least once in the last 12 hours. We're all pretty much posting pretty often. I don't get why people are throwing out "hey PLAYER is lurking. Look at him!"

6 pages in, with everyone posting...

NO ONE

is lurking. That's something I think should be made

clear

. People go offline. It happens.

Fair enough. Rain brought up your "Active lurking" and I latched on it. It definitely hasn't been the truth in the last couple days.

Ah a new post. What's that, Quad posting lol?

What do I think Quar? It's not like we have more than two factions. I have a vote, and it's at where it is at for a reason.

Stepping it up a notch to quads!

I actually just discovered I can still pull new quotes in preview. Awesome. That'll help.

[Quaroath]

Quaroath- You flip flop more than a fish out of water with your votes. Lets see, i am pretty sure this is in order- Your votes- 1 stels, 2 rain, 3 jack, 4 bear, 5 rain, and 6 bear. You are all over the board and don't tell me it is to get info out when you have not voted t-bone (even though you have suspicions he is scum), but Splitfavle and Muh you talk about but are posting enough info for you to not vote them for info??

Read what I type more carefully, I have never said I think T-bone is scum, I have said that a lynch on T-bone would be more informative and thus better for the town, than a policy lynch. My scum group has been preety static all game. Pretty sure that's not flip-flopping. What's more..
your vote list for me is simply full of holes. Untrue even. You have 6 votes listed for me, I've voted 4 times (though technically it's only three as I screwed up the bolding on one. The following are the votes I've made:

RVS:
Stels (This is the one i botched the bold on), Rain (voted this because of the bolding issue on my first vote)

Real Votes:
First "real vote"
Jack over the no lynch issue

Second and only other post-RVS vote:
Rain for the misrepresentations.

I've also said I think split is town, along with ellyssa and you. Why would I vote split if I think he's town?
I have a better use for my vote right now than Muh, so... not moving my vote. I really have no desire to lynch Muh at this point.

At least I'm voting. *Poke*

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me for a reason I can't get my head around. It is purely a gut feeling, it just feels wrong. I'll try to figure out why while rereading.

What Muh says here bothers you but you never come back to it... kind of lets say Mafia chat "Muh, mafia friend don't do that". So why did you not come back to this and don't say you "forgot", you post and quote so much that you should have not miss this.

Didn't feel I had too get too in depth on this. Still bothers me because policy lynches are almost universally poor. I have gone back to it though, saying that is bothers me because I think a policy lynch is the worst possible outcome for town D1, outside of a no lynch.

[Quaroath]

Just to avoid the prod, fri-sat are 14-16 hour work days for me. I run a Papa John's and they are the super busy days. Last week I was on vacation, now, not so much. Will go over whats been posted and reply tomorrow at the latest. (Have a blazer game to go to tonight, and work early)

[Quaroath]

@stels failcase. Learn to read. I really need to explain what he did there. It makes for fantastic scum. I will when I have a computer.

[Quaroath]

That list is Barefoot, stels, rain, T-bone over lynching Jack on a policy lynch.

I'm pretty sure he's mistaken here. Muh was the one who said "policy lynch" at Jack, not T-Bone.

Yeah I know, that was a list of people I'd rather lynch for information than policy lynch jack at that time. Don't think a T-bone lynch would be a good idea after the last page. Still feel barefoot-stels.

@Rain post #141. Mostly, I'm using the same argument against you you used against me, tying me to someone by circumstantial evidence. It's sarcastic because obviously, if you want to link t-bone and I because we haven't talked (to that point I hadn't mentioned him), then maybe you are searching for someone to tie your scum buddy T-bone too. It's circular logic, and frankly.. it's pointless. For both sides. The fact that I wasn’t talking about or mentioning T-bone got you started on your Quaroath is scum gravy train. Have fun riding it.
I tried explaining this concept in my ISO post #34 but I probably did it poorly. (overall post #123)

Remember that I'm in the same situation as you; I don't know anyone's alignment. I don't have more information (currently, only scums know who's town and who's not) than any typical townie.

This type of statement falls into the category of "the more you say it the less believable it becomes".

@Jack
A policy lynch is not worse than no lynch, it is in fact better, for the same reason that a lynch is better than no lynch. Also, even if no one suspects you, that does not mean you aren't scum.

A PL is worse if you know that person is town (witch most of you have stated the you think I am town) and so if you are going to hit a townie you would be wasting one of three oh so precious days.

Thinking =/= knowing

@rain #153, this tickles me kinda, because your two other scum besides me are the same two I said pages ago, and still feel that way about. Sad that your obvscum is a VT though. (Pot, Kettle) Ah well.

@stels 156 – Spoiler tags are obnoxious. Yes I just went all ad hom. Post in the clear.

To the post:
Nice Chainsaw.

Here is what I posted, and the post I was directly replying too:

Quaroath- You flip flop more than a fish out of water with your votes. Lets see, i am pretty sure this is in order- Your votes- 1 stels, 2 rain, 3 jack, 4 bear, 5 rain, and 6 bear. You are all over the board and don't tell me it is to get info out when you have not voted t-bone (even though you have suspicions he is scum), but Splitfavle and Muh you talk about but are posting enough info for you to not vote them for info??

Read what I type more carefully, I have never said I think T-bone is scum, I have said that a lynch on T-bone would be more informative and thus better for the town, than a policy lynch. My scum group has been preety static all game. Pretty sure that's not flip-flopping.

You choose to cut this:

Not one to nitpick individual phrases and such, but:

My scum group has been preety static all game. Pretty sure that's not flip-flopping. What's more..

You pretty much admitted to being scum here, although that's probably a joke, which it most certainly is.

Seriously? How badly did you dislocate your shoulder reading what I posted as “My own personal scum team I’m a part of”? That’s a hell of a stretch for anyone to make. My scum group has been (as you damn well know) you and barefoot most of the game (Since post #78 even). I’ve had moments where rain pinged my radar too. This hasn’t changed. That’s NOT flip flopping. You chainsawed a post that has to be read all as one piece, and took only the one sentence you could twist to your case? How is that not the product of a frame job or just terribad play? You explain that to me, would you?

The fact that you use a "You can't keep me in a constant pair with another possible scum partner, so I'm not scum" disturbs me very much. That is the most worst excuse you could ever to get your out of a situation where you are in heat. So what if you don't have a definite scum-partner, that doesn't eliminate the chance that you are scum or any suspicions.

That’s exactly why I didn’t use that excuse, and why you ripping the one sentence you did from the quote devoid on context is either A.) scummy, or B.) belligerently poor play, town or scum.
The sheer effort that went into the twisting of words if really epic.

@stels #161 You write:

Sigh, I hate that specific phrase "Learn to read". It pisses me off so much.

Okay, maybe you’d prefer learn to comprehend and not cherry pick?

The fact that you're disappointed by this pretty much makes it more suspicious if you already start calling me scum which will, eventually lead to OMGUS.

Far beyond disappointed, your case was case was so terribad, it annoyed me so much I posted failcase from my phone as I stood in line at the Rose Garden.

The fact that I'm voting for you isn't because of that one quote, it's because I read your previous posts as well and gave my judgment.

Your judgment of one post, you rorschached into what you wanted to read. That’s your case that you’ve posted.

The fact that it's pretty much OBVIOUS that you wouldn't say that you are scum in that quote is apparent, I'm not stupid enough to use that in voting for you. What you're doing in that quote is using a "I don't have a scum-partner, or he changes too quickly for me to actually be scum" excuse. That's what adds to your scumminess.

Apparently, it’s so obvious I didn’t say I’m scum because, get this, I didn’tYou read something that wasn’t there, and formed a scumminess read off a defense I DID NOT EVEN MAKE. What… the… hell?

Oh yeah, and you know, because it just has to happen:

unvote:vote: stels

By the way, yes, yo do suck, no thats not why I'm voting you. Get lynched please.

[Quaroath]

Frikken broken tags. not sure how they broken between preview and post.

[Quaroath]

@mod, could you please fix the quote tags in #171. Sorry about that.

[Quaroath]

@stels failcase. Learn to read. I really need to explain what he did there. It makes for fantastic scum. I will when I have a computer.

Sigh, I hate that specific phrase "Learn to read". It pisses me off so much.

The fact that you're disappointed by this pretty much makes it more suspicious if you already start calling me scum which will, eventually lead to OMGUS.

The fact that I'm voting for you isn't because of that one quote, it's because I read your previous posts as well and gave my judgment. The fact that it's pretty much OBVIOUS that you wouldn't say that you are scum in that quote is apparent, I'm not stupid enough to use that in voting for you. What you're doing in that quote is using a "I don't have a scum-partner, or he changes too quickly for me to actually be scum" excuse. That's what adds to your scumminess.

Bolding mine. So let me get this straight.... I say in post #78 (83 posts before yours, over HALF THE GAME AGO) I'm feeling a barefoot-stels scumteam... and I'm just NOW starting to call you scummy? I find it interesting that you attempt to preemptively deflect and minimize the vote you damn well know is coming our way from the failcase post. I like how you threaten me there, "Oh no, don't vote me back, that'll be make you even more SUSPICIOUS."

[Quaroath]

The tags are fine. You quoted too much!!!!

meh

go me?

[Quaroath]

Ebwop- sorry I had two quotes at first but then took one of the out after I re-read it. Quaroath you said in post 116 that T-Bone contribution= zero and in 117 you say you dont have a good read on him due to lack of contribution. So I was just trying to figure out why you hadn't try voting him to get information out of him like you had done to others.

Yeah I know, that was a list of people I'd rather lynch for information than policy lynch jack at that time. Don't think a T-bone lynch would be a good idea after the last page. Still feel barefoot-stels.

These are two different quotes, but I would like to know what T-Bone said in the last page that made you change your mind on him.

Don't think he's scum. Not going to bother trying to pressure a player I think is town. Post #140 and #146 swung me.

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

Nah, Don't really feel a lot of heat right now.

@stels #185, had a better place for it, couldn't be bothered to vote you since I'd said I thought you were scummy early on.

@Elyssa I'm really not sure I agree with the sentiment in Jacks #179, that post is loaded with WIFOM issues. I'm not really sure it's more than circular logic and I definately don't think he should be lynched because he didn't defend himself quickly.

You can understand that whoever was not on that list was suspicious or borderline suspicious.

Not only is the above hella weak, it's also hella scummy. It's akin to saying "you can interpret it however you want, I won't commit to an opinion right now". Scum can easily coast by claiming to townhunt (since they know who's town anyways); scumhunting and posting reasons why you find a person scummy is much harder (read: townier).

I like this new Jack. I will no longer support a PL on Jack.

The above is true, on both counts.

It's too early to "hammer" muh316, besides his case

is

weak. Even now when has spoken, he hasn't said much and I want to hear more from him, but I dont know how to apply any more pressure. He's at L-1, is he tired of the game or something?
If he gets lynched by one quick-hammer now and flips scum, is town lucky. To catch a scum with a case like this, and have him not fight for his life whatsoever...

I admit I'm acting neutral(ish), but I'm afraid of pissing someone off and getting more votes on me. There are players here who are voting for anyone who directly attacks them.
My eyes are on the Stels-Rain-Quaroath-T-Bone little hassle..

I have a hard time reading apathy to L-1 pressure. Do you claim VT? What's the point? people get called scum when they get defensive, people get called scum when they are apathetic (or seem to be). Muh not pushing a case on anyone is not particularly town though. The big thing for me is i think town tends to defend then present a case, not just ignore the pressure or say "meh, whatever, lynch me if you want".

@barefoot - worrying about votes to much comes across scummy. Votes happen. Unless you are at L-2 or L-1, it isn't a huge worry in my mind because picking up three quick votes is unlikely, to say the least.

I've been admittedly biased against stels, because he's been irritating me consistently (including pre game) and decided to interpret one of my posts in the scummiest light it could be cast, then cut only that line from my post, and use it as the touchstone on a case on me. It's a little frustrating, yes. Combined with the repeated pokes on nonsensical issues early on, I wasn't predisposed to being happy with stels.

That said:

Stels, I'd like to apologize for the attitude of my posts, I've had pneumonia, I haven't been sleeping, and I'm stressed more right now that I have been in a longer time (finals+work imploding with my sickness/hospitalization) and I vented it all in your general direction because it's easy to do in an online forum. The person on the other side of a screen is the easiest target to go after with anger. I apologize and promise it won't happen again. I hope you will accept my apology.

[Quaroath]

@Quaroath You said you've felt a barefoot-Stels scumteam. Have you seen any sort of connection between the two, or they just happen to be your main suspects besides Rain? I'm not sure if you've listed any already, may have missed it, I only saw the early post you referred to where you said you mainly suspected them, before Rain jumped on and you two OMGUS'd each other. Adding to the question, which of the three do you think is more likely to be innocent, since you did vote Rain too? One of them at least has to be innocent.

Sorry about the delay on this I've had an interesting week. Mostly just a feel on the two players themselves more than a connection of any kind. I'm questioning my read on stels though, it's possible i was bing more OMGUS than anything. I need to reconsider this one.

I think Rain is the least likely to be scum of the three.

I'm up for voting barefoot right now.

VOTE: Barefoot-fighter

Seriously, Rain said this already but, wow that’s .. bad.

@ Ellyssa

@Quaroath in #190 Hope you get well soon if you aren't already. And also, I don't think Jack's #179 was advocating a quick lynch, he seemed to be presenting an alternate viewpoint and possible reason why muh shouldn't be lynched based on post activity. ie, he truly hasn't been around much, and was not active lurking in the sense of reading but coasting. I agreed with him in my post and I think you do too in yours.

Fair enough.

I think it's time for me to point fingers at people (hey Ellyssa!). You say you want the day to end and it's completely understandable here, but I think you already wanted Day 1 to end a few pages ago.

I think now we've gotten what we're going to get out of the day phase. People keep throwing out a suspect list, so lets grab some common ground and get a lynch going.

Unvote

Vote: Muh316

I said I'd be okay with this vote. He and Stels were my picks for votes, at this point, I think Stels has redeemed himself enough for now. At least until the next phase.

Underlining mine. Voting for muh just to get someone lynched quickly? Maybe you just want to get this over with and move on to the Night Phase. Lurking, which you're constantly accused of, is waiting for others to vote to whoever they want, then hop along and get the game going. Question: is this all we're going to get out of Day 1?

I think more information can be gleaned, but the day really is near maxxing out information that can be gained. Understand most of the information we are going to gain will be looking back at what happened based on the lynch and night actions. I don't really think T-Bone saying take your time and saying he thinks the day has maxxed out info is particularly scummy though.

Yeah I'm hopping on bandwagons. The second vote is totally a bandwagon.

It is your fault if you guys can't get a read off of me. I'm not gonna say if I'm town or scum, because the moment you say you're town, you become a safe lynch at this stage of the game.

I've seen a bit of a theme "so and so wants to end the day because they wanna use their scum powers!" There are 9 players playing. At most, 4 players have night actions, at least, 2 players do.

I'm not here to make your ability to play easier Jack. If you think I'm scum, don't wimp out. Cast your vote. Don't "waste space" as you so eloquently called it by complaining "I'm not good enough at this game to make reads on other players unless they spell it out for me" with your posts. This has got to be the 3rd or 4th time you've complained that someone else isn't playing good enough. Don't blame your problems on other players.

I'm rushing the town? Really? Because we've had 4 posts in the last day. If I'm rushing the town, I'm doing a horrible job at it.

Wait, what? Why would you not want to say you're town? This isn't a complex game with 3 factions and a couple third parties; 7 townies (PR or otherwise), 2 mafia - the 2 mafia KNOW who the town are - everyone else - so what would your not saying you were town do to sway/confuse them exactly?

Saying you are town is pointless, town says they are town, scum says they are town. It’s a vapid claim. It’s why I pointed out that insinuating townieness and saying I’m a townie just like you gets less and less believable the more you hear it. It's not confusing to mafia, but townies can't know if you are being honest or not. It's rally overall, a pointless claim in my eyes.

[Quaroath]

Didn't see the hammer until most of that post was composed, figured I shouldn't waste the typing.

[Quaroath]

@my post 140 and 146 making me think T-Bone is town: It's the tone of the typing in the posts, posts after those haven't changes this feel.

[Quaroath]

I'm not really surprised jack bit the bullet. if there is one person who the majority of the game feels is town, it paints a big target on that persons back.

Gonn alook back at vote patterns and reread in light of the alignments.

[Quaroath]

Sorry i've been delinquent. Life sucks right now. Catching up asap, been even more delinquent in other games so gotta do those first.

[Quaroath]

@Splits post #238 on Rains Hammer I completely agree with this. Barefoot had two votes, I'd been vocal all D1 about suspecting her, and my vote wasn't one of the two... and you didn't think it was possible a wagon would form on barefoot?

@Rains #241, you don't think a 3 vote bandwagon, that might have have reached four would have been beneficial long term as a competing wagon to the muh wagon? This feels like information denial.

I feel an itch that the muh hammer wasn't because you were bored, it's because you didn't want a competing wagon to form because that could only help town.
VOTE: Rain

@Splits #256 WIFOM INCOMING

Going into N1 I expected one of two particular people to eat a bullet. Jack was one of them.

I'm surprised you are surprised Jack ate the NK, because everyone that mentioned his alignment pegged him as town. Thats a huge target

everyone

in the game painted on his back. Why would scum not kill the tagged as town guy?

@activity - Wife in hospital, partial lung collapse concurent with pneumonia. All is fine now but it has really disrupted my life.

[Quaroath]

I promise a catch up post tomorrow, hopefully in the morning, if not in the evening. Wife s finally home, been a bad weekend.

[Quaroath]

@rain Why did you lose interest in the barefoot iso? And given that you did, to muh, what do you think about the new bare-nacho amalgam of posts. Nacho is swinging like a pendulum for me scum/town on a nearly post by post basis.

@Splits post 281. That is crap.

In response to that

unvote:vote Splitfarvle

Money + mouth, you are seriously hedging about voting rain. As much as T-bone says he’s fine with your vote .. I’m not. A.) This could be a bussing post that could go under the radar. B.) You are already setting up a Rain vote but only by implication, this clears you for voting later by saying “Well, I said waaay back here Rain was my top suspect, I just didn’t want to L-1 him. This is the same problem T-bone has with Stels and Rains “prevotes”

Also Splits Iso #4 seems like a serious breadcrumb for a day 2 case, when Rain was functioning in IC capacity at the time.

@split Do you have any particular reads on people besides Jack that you want to share? I think you brought up an interesting coaching point at Rain back in #85, though that could be a rather WIFOM-y argument, but like Rain said, may be useful in the future if either of them flip scum. What do you think of barefoot?

I'm pretty much done with Jack for now, I can't tell if he's scum or not and I don't know how I feel about a policy lynch at this point. If he actually comes back to the thread and helps us find scum, that would be great.

One thing that I find difficult in reading Rain is his role as IC. It doesn't help us to scumhunt if Rain is dropping knowledge that might be used by scum to appear more town. I don't think that part of my suspicion goes away if Jack flips town.

Hard for an IC to do their job without helping both sides. And you use this as a base for your case in your ISO #20 for the case on rain.

Re-reading the thread, I changed my mind about not voting yet because I want to put my money where my mouth is about finding muh316 to be scummy.

VOTE: muh316

That avatar is probably Wario in disguise

You put your money where your mouth was here, an hour and a half after waffling on Muh. I'm seriously starting to rethink my read on you. Putting Rain at L-1 would be dangerous.. but anyone who quick-hammered, or hammered period at this point in the day would be either serious poor-town, or scum quickhmmering, which is poor scum play. Either way it's bad play to hammer.

@Splits iso #14 bothers me on several levels.

Here is the post:

barefoot-fighter: She had some pressure on her due to perceived fence-sitting about Jack and her initial support of a No Lynch, and she didn't come across as scummy to me in her responses. Her posting style makes her seem like a new player to me. She hasn't been contributing much since, though. In my limited experience scum likes to slip through the cracks. It struck me in both games I've played how often a scum flip would elicit a "Man, I forgot he/she was even in the game" from other players. I would support a barefoot lynch at this time for that reason alone, but would prefer a replacement if she continues to lurk.

Ellyssa: Has often posted things I was thinking, and I think her playing has mostly benefited the town. The only reservation I have comes into play if muh316 flips scum, as Ellyssa offers a defense for him in post #112

Jack Forman: I really don't see why he is making so many people's town lists, but I am glad we seem to be beyond discussing the No Lynch issue (for the most part) and that he's challenging other players on different points. I'm neutral on Jack right now.

muh316: Still think he's the scummiest, and I'm comfortable with my vote. The only new point I want to bring up is something in #149:

Barefoot was not the only one I suspected.


Here's how I do it. I list everyone who I think is town. The rest are not clear enough to be considered town.
Town: Jack, split, T-bone, Rain
The other 4 I'm not very sure of what to think about them.

It makes no sense to me to say that you have suspicions for more than barefoot, then refuse to say who else you're suspicious of and why. I do not think you're playing to help the town win.

Quaroath: Initially I had a townie feeling for him. The arguments he's had have brought out a lot of defensive posting from him, and he's been more challenging to read.

Rain: Still tough to read maybe because I'm too hung up on his role as IC, but he does seem to be playing the game. I suspect my opinion on him will swing from neutral depending on D1/N1 flips.

Stels: Seems fairly clear about who he thinks is scum and why (even despite being V/LA for a spell), and I see that as more pro-town than scum.

T-Bone: Neutral. Wish I had more to say, but I have a gut feeling that keeps me from thinking he's town even though I haven't seen much from him that I would say is scummy.

1st: Jack Forman: Srsly? You don’t want to make a read on the easiest to read player in the game? That’s serious D1 fence sitting. Even saying you think he's probably one or the other is better than "I have no read on the most discussed player"

2nd: Myself/Stels in this post. So you had an initial townie feeling for me, that went away. What caused it to go away? Was it my making it “fairly clear who I thought was scum?” My defensive posting came from getting into it with Stels and Rain. Or is that more scummy than pro-town? How does being clear about who you think is scum read as pro-town. T-bone thinks Elyssa is scum. That makes him town… right? This one post is riddled with issues you are contradicting.

What I get out of this post is, I think Muh is scum, but really don’t have a read on anyone else. Everyone else is neutral- town lean. This sounds very T-boneish. As in, tunnel a suspect.

"Lets see if I can convince others, he's the most scummy townie."


For the record, my gut is screaming at me that Stels is town now. This really pisses me off for reasons I can’t explain.

Pps. My wife has Pneumonia, and a parasite she's going to carry around for 9 months then keep around for at least 18 years. At the same time!

[Quaroath]

Awww... That sucks. I hear a coat hanger can solve this kind of problem.

...

Just kidding. Don't. I'm happy for you.

Btw, T-Bone, that looks like some poorly concealed threat there. First of all, I have no problems acting on my convictions, and it just so happens I have a strong conviction Ellyssa's town. I don't mind you, or anyone else for that matter, attacking her, but so far your case is garbage, which is why I find you scummier in comparison.

WIFOM bomb: Don't forget that there might be a cop in this game. It might explain why some people are unnaturally protective of certain people.

I don't see you being a partner with Stels though. If he flips town, I might reconsider a T-Bone + Quaroath duo since Quar's latest posts have yet to mention T-Bone in any significant way (reminiscent of my d1 point much? sans confusing names this time around), but honestly, there's little scum motives behind his D2 pushes. His infrequent posts and RL issues might be clouding scumminess but.... eh. Stels is still scummier.

Barefoot was iffy. Nacho is town. I believe in Nacho, even if Nacho doesn't believe in me.

Honestly T-bone just doesn't interest me at this point, I'm watching him but he's pushing one person I have zero interest in voting today, and I think he's doing it poorly.. He also tunneled a confirmed townie D1. I don't think he's scum, I just don't think he's effectively hunting scum either.

YMMV

[Quaroath]

@Rain. Whoa whoa. That's a mighty fine fishing pole you're considering whipping out. There's no reason for me to consider a Cop in this equation, because there's no reason for a Cop to out themselves to protect a townie.

@ Quaroth - I'm sorry. CONFIRMED TOWNIE? The only people who 100% know who is town, is the mafia. So, was that a Freudian slip? Gonna kill Ellyssa tonight so that she flips town, so you can come back Day 3 and say "see I knew Ellyssa was town!"

Unvote

I think Ellyssa with so many people "knowing" that you are 100% town, that some of them are scum buddying up to you so that they can look more town. The thing is people keep making statements that they know you are 100% town, and the only people who know that for sure are the mafia. So here's the deal. Why you claimed that putting pressure on you was pointless, I got a lot of people to reveal some interesting things. So why I don't know for sure if you are town or not, I'm feeling more comfortable with lynching someone "confirming" you as town, then you.

See what a little discussion gets us guys? People like Quaroth "confirming" other players based on no actual facts. Quaroth, that's not called "confirming" that's called buddying. Same thing for you Rain, you don't know that Ellyssa is town, unless YOU are scum. However, other than that comment I like the rest of Quaroth's points, so maybe he made a legit town mistake. I don't know.

Side Note: I apologize for the everyone having their heads up Ellyssa's butt comment, I think that was a little too out of line to get the point across.

Let me quote what I said.

Honestly T-bone just doesn't interest me at this point, I'm watching him but he's pushing one person I have zero interest in voting today, and I think he's doing it poorly.. He also tunneled a confirmed townie D1. I don't think he's scum, I just don't think he's effectively hunting scum either.

YMMV

I'm

pretty god-damned

sure Jack is a confirmed townie. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Quaroath]

But Toad didn't tunnel Jack on D1.. they argued a bit at the end over his lack of any sort of tells but Toad was mostly on Stels D1.

Hmm. I'll go double check this, I've got it in my head that t-bone was on muh towards the end.

[Quaroath]

@Rain. Whoa whoa. That's a mighty fine fishing pole you're considering whipping out. There's no reason for me to consider a Cop in this equation, because there's no reason for a Cop to out themselves to protect a townie.

@ Quaroth - I'm sorry. CONFIRMED TOWNIE? The only people who 100% know who is town, is the mafia. So, was that a Freudian slip? Gonna kill Ellyssa tonight so that she flips town, so you can come back Day 3 and say "see I knew Ellyssa was town!"

DAMNIT! Ninja'd.

ZOMG YOUR RIGHT, SEE MY REPLY TO TBONE!

[Quaroath]

@Nacho

I think that Stels is town because of how transparent he's been this game. As scum, he's a bit more reserved. He avoided the muh bandwagon yesterday, but didn't call muh town for cred after the lynch. He's also had some really good scumhunting this game (#9 and #12, especially), and nothing he has done has been remotely scummy.

What was good about Stels' scumhunting in #9 and #12? One thing common in both posts is that he expresses strong suspicion of barefoot (you!) and Quaroath, whom he votes for at the end of #12.

(For finding a scum-slip/claim that he had to twist my words to find)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Stels

Have reasons, but I won't go into them right now.

[Quaroath]

Hallo. I'm here. Not much more to report since my last post since I was hoping QUaroath would give his Stels reasons too.

I'll start, with just a reread of Day 2.

Quaroath has voted a bunch of people since D2 started.. for me that initially seemed like a fairly strong town tell, despite some questionable things here and there in D1. One question jumps out at me though.

@Quaroath: You voted Rain, then Split, then now Stels, in D2. You give a reason each time but you I don't think you've retracted any of the earlier suspicions of the first two in your posts. Since there are only two Mafia, which one of the three don't you believe is Mafia now? You seem to be jumping at people a bit instead of trying to find the scum pairing, as I tried to allude to here but it kind of got ignored.

My current thought process on scum is Stels, and either T-Bone or nacho. I still haven't lost that thread in my mind that stels and barefoot were the scum team. I'm fairly certain Split is town from his reaction to my vote, and Rain I'm thinking is likely town.

I'm not really sure how in depth to get with my reasons for the stels vote. Pretty much it's the same as D1, but compounded by today. I also severely distrust that my gut is telling me he's probably town when my head and thought process screams scum. I'm trusting my thoughts over my emotions, as I suspect part of that comes from my overly aggressive stance towards him, as a compensation.

[Quaroath]

@Ellyssa.

Addition through subtraction really.

Playerlist:

Rain

Quaroath

Ellyssa

Split

T-Bone
Stels
Nacho

Striked through name indicate people I consider town at this point.
Kinda obvious who the other three are, no?

[Quaroath]

Iso = isolation, looking at just one persons posts by choosing them in the "Display posts by user" dropdown box below.

[Quaroath]

Just checking in, stand by my vote.

[Quaroath]

Stress argh. Hi T-Bone! <3 Sorry

So sorry to town, I felt extremely scummy IRL throughout the game. I'd like to say you all were a great group of folks to play with in general compared to some of the troll-like posting and screaming in browsing some of the other Newbie games!

@split I think if you had actually voted early on in Day 3 it would have added a bit of credibility; in the end it was one extra thing we could attack you on.. that being said I think you did about all you could overall.

@Rain, T-bone, others: Can you point out some of the things that stood out to you and raised red flags about my play? I know I was definitely hesitant about attacking barefoot for a bit there.. but not sure if I would have even if I was town heh. I still don't get how I flailed against split in D3, I thought my points stood up quite well, if you could elaborate a little Rain?

Big thanks for Nacho to replacing in too, and Alduskkel for modding! It went a bit slow near the end of D2, but thankfully picked up again.

Our QT is here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/JaktMYeE38L
Is there a dead QT or something in newbie games?
there's not much on it. We didn't actually get to talk after Nacho replaced in early on D2, barefoot didn't give any indication she was going to leave until after the day had started, so doh there.
Jack Forman drew the kill on Night 1 because he voted no-lynch and as much as it was a scummy thing to do, I thought it was also a new-cop-like thing to do, wanting to get to night early. Nice job on his part heh.
Quaroath drew the kill on Night 2 because of well.. process of elimination. I didn't want to kill split due to sticking out like a sore thumb in terms of being obv-townie and still alive, nor did I want to kill the bottom couple potential mislynches, so he was kind of in between.
Never suspected split. Had a heart attack when you claimed cop on D3. What were the odds we killed the two you didn't inspect, grrr.

TBH, if you hadn't nk'd me, I would have been all over you D3 Ellysa, no way I believe you live through both nights, with that townie of a feeling. I started getting bad feeling about 24 hours after the night started when i started rereading D1, and your half defensive posture about barefoot. Meh. I didn't help, didn't do very well. Good job scum.

[Quaroath]

First appt is today at 2:20 PST for the first ultrasound and accurate due ate estimation! woo!

I'd love to play with you again Ellyssa, I enjoy your play style greatly.

[Quaroath]

The avatar I currently have is the one I generally sport, Hamtaro inspired the LotR hamster sig.

[Quaroath]

always willing to take feedback