Vordark wrote:So, are you saying that you believe Umbrage is town?
Not the first time I've said this, but apparently I've never posited any opinion of any player other than Ythan. Very surprised no one commented on this before.
There's been a few problems with Umbrage, but the first that comes up is his vote for Snake Eyes--which was underexplained but not scummish, and he has since moved on, which is also townish.
He pointed out Xto's lack of participation--which was town play, not scummish.
He questioned CS's motives--which was town play, not scummish.
He characterizes himself as setting himself up as bait--and indeed, games never move past RVS if every vote comes off as pure RVS with absolutely no basis behind it. That doesn't mean he's hellbent on anyone vote or another.
He does contradict himself:
A bandwagon needs people pushing it.
You seem desperate to stop RVS and get a wagon started.
This is problematic, but doesn't do much for me in terms of scumplay. This is more any-player trying to justify their "serious vote" gambit above, while trying to dispel a counter-wagon on them. Poor reasoning, and as it's poor reasoning it's not townish, but it's not scummish either. It's a misplay on either side of the fence. His downplay of his contradiction is also problematic, and marginally scummier than the contradiction itself.
Snake Eyes is saying at that point in the game a lot of the same stuff I'm saying right now, which is what gave me the impression that SE and Umb in particular were moving into a marginally un-scummish nulltell.
His posts starting to on around here is where he really starts to lose it:
Umbrage wrote:
Vordark wrote:Umbrage seems to be doing a lot of OMGUS voting and a whole lot of flipping out for a relatively painless page one, three-vote, get us out of RVS bandwagon. And the whole act scummy to see who bites thing is just silly.
OH I'M SORRY FOR SCUMHUNTING WHILE YOU'VE BEEN PICKING YOUR NOSE. You clearly don't understand what you are talking about, because the very nature of the gambit I pulled means that I will have to attack the people who attack me. It is only OMGUS if you do not provide reasoning for your votes. I've provided reasoning every step of the way. The only reasoning you've provided is that I'm 'silly'.
Vordark wrote:a relatively painless page one, three-vote, get us out of RVS bandwagon.
NO!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! SNAKE EYES SAID THAT HE FOUND ME SCUMMY!!!!!!!!! I HAVE PROVEN IT WAS NOT A GET-OUT-OF-RVS BANDWAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FUCKING READING THE FUCKING THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to go lie down...
This meltdown was kinda random, but I'm getting the impression Umbrage is a bit volatile. Again, I'm taking this as part of Umbrage's disposition, not as reflective of his position in the game. He basically sees the contradiction in the explanation for his RVS compared to his response to SE who was basically calling him on exactly what he was doing, and he more or less announces he was doing.
So basically the Snake-Eyes/AbelCain/Umbrage trifecta is striking me as townflailing on town. The whole thing is a colossal null-tell and I didn't really feel the need to break it down when at that point it was seeming way more likely that the scum are lurkers mixed with wagoners on Umbrage.
This bit seems to be saying that a bandwagon on a player for which there is "so much room to make compelling criticism" is bad, and that the more they are pressed the worse off we are. This appears to run contrary to the idea of scum hunting. Can you elaborate on your thought process here?
This is kind of getting into pure theory territory, but I do not think the "more [Umbrage] is pressed the worse off we are" but rather, the more Umbrage is pressed the easier it will be for lurkers to join the wagon. This is uninformative for those players, so perhaps indirectly bad for the town. In this setup, the hammer falls when a simple majority is reached, so we never REALLY get a sense of who, in a pinch, really would or would not hammer. It's interesting to see who joins the wagon at what point and for what reasons, but since the heart of the matter seems to be a townish SE and a townish AC poking a townflailing Umb it still seems more prudent to look at the lurkers.
I also feel like my exchange with Ythan has probably produced a relative null-tell.
That's why my questions lately have been:
-Who will try to produce a wagon out of it
-Who will ignore it completely
-Who will pretend to read it but only use it as an excuse to hide
When TBL and Xto basically come in to say "hey look Ythan and Krazy had a little exchange" with no comment on any activity in the entire game, I still see that as active lurking and more scummy than the AC/SE/Umbrage townpoke/townflail.
