A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Zdenek]

I mostly agree with Magua's list of people not to lynch today. I'd like to add that I don't think BL is scum becuase of this.

@MOI: The reason you are voting Zoraster is not the reason others are voting him. The reason others are voting him, you have said only strengthening your read/vote on him.
Here the situation I see:
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips town, what happens to Raivann? Raivann still will be lynched because his post have been bad and scummy (I think one has been good). Isn't that right?
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips scum, what happens to Raivann? Raivann is lynched because the FOS Buddy - Vote Townie theory is strengthen. Isn't that right?
If we lynch Raivann and he flips town, what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is thrown out the window and scum now have to come up with another mislynch.
If we lynch Raivann and he flips scum. what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is strengthen and Zoraster is lynched due to it.

The most logical sense is to lynch Raivann.

This post feels that Bunnylover genuinely believed that Raivann is scum, which is definitely townish. On top of that, I don't see either of them as being Starks and if they were on the same scum team together, I doubt Bunny would have pushed Raivann's
lynch when it would have been easy to push Zoraster's.

On the other hand, I am less convinced that Raivann should be off the table, I agree that he is unlikely to be Stark, but the meta-case on him seems ok and he definitely seemed to change his opinion of Shadow opportunistically. I'd be happier with this line of reasoning if I trusted TS, who's making this case.

I also think that his case on Nexus is fine.

VOTE: Raivann. If you need me to elaborate, sure, but I've been fairly against him for the same reasons Xtoxm flipped scum.

Could you? and Shadow, what is your current opinion of Raivann?

But that would mean Tyrion is confirmed as in-the-game to Tywin. And confirmed town, at that.

Tyrion Lannister confirmed as Lannister and in the game seems okay to me. Why should there be a problem with it? I don't follow the argument you gave.

Benmage, this might be silly, but could you please clarify if Setael is actually mod-cleared.

Percy Ghostlin Andrius

I'm good with either lynch, a Zoa or a Raviann lynch. Their play has been pretty close to identical, either active lurking, or "I really believe this person is scummy, but let me vote someone else right over HERE..." kind of FoS.

I don't like that Ghostlin was so indifferent to who we lynched on day one.

Do you know with certainity of who's scum/town?

Ghost asked this question of MoI. It's obnoxious and could have been distancing.

Wait, what? Chess was Lancaster aligned though; the only other flip was Stark, and I'd think you'd have a hard time convincing me the mafia iced one of their own.

The remaining possibilities are these: (Ordered in how feasible I like them.)

1) You are scum, soft claiming Vig/SK.
2) There's a protection role/RB role in the house (which, in that case, protection role, do not claim), and you are a town aligned Vig.
3) See above, replace the word vig with SK.
4) 2 or 3, only Starks didn't kill/can't kill last night (not likely).
5) More than one mafia group in this game and one of them was blocked from acting last night. (This is a combo of 1, you're soft claiming Vig, and telling the truth in a way we'd like to hear.)

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet.

Scum often post lists like this. Logical statements that cover all their bases, but fail to provide any real analysis, plus fence-sitting.

I feel that Ghostlin posted very little actual content in the time he was here. In his catch-up post covering 33 pages, he attacks Raivann for some reasonable reasons, but felt the need to add the question about how would Raivann know who the VT''s are? As though scum would be given that information. The rest of the catch-up post is underwhelming: fence-sitting on Chesskid, commenting that DGB's willingness to be lynched over hascow's post restriction is pro-town, attacking Magua for his Zoraaster vote.

His other major contribution was his case on Bunnylover and while I surely see reasons to attack BL, my overall read on her is definitely town. I also perceive her as an easy person to attack. I also do not buy his reason to nominate her: that we will get something other than a bunch of sheep votes.

Twilight Sparkle
I am still suspicious of them. Here are somethings that I would like to add to what I've said before. They said

MoI's suspicions have had a logical townie like progression. It started early yesterday with his response to my questioning and has just built from there. Post 1170 is detailed reasoning for his suspicion and it reads genuine to me.

But not too long after that they said called MoI

The player with whom I have reservations the size of a small continent and whose every post raises yet another alarm bell

It surprises me that they would have no reservations about a vote coming from a player about whom they felt like that.

Also, look at this from TS.

Sadly this means I'm probably wrong about MagU because I seriously doubt there's two scum in {Benmage, Magua, MoI}. Maybe separate faction scum, but I don't see two Starks blatantly agreeing SO HARD in the thread. Meh, backburner it for now, if another non-Lannister faction flips I'll pick up my shiny toy again.

As alluded to yesterday, some of the passion has gone out of the zdenek wagon of late. We'll see what happens when he's actively scumhunting and not just responding to point we're raising. For now:

Vote: Raivann

In the first paragraph, decides to stop attacking because Magua is unlikely to be Stark, and then votes Raivann. But later we have:

2) I personally think there are either two scumteams or a serial killer, because MoI was an unlikely vig shot. Also, I'm convinced that Raivann is scum right now, and he apparently doesn't fit well as a Stark. Normally, I wouldn't base my theory of the set-up on reads, but his Feysal vote and dodging my pressure to explain it was a scumclaim. Like I said yesterday, Raivann is ridiculously transparent. Unfortunately, that means MoI's flip no longer clears us, but at least Raivann's will.

So Raivann is not Stark, but he is still a worthy lynch.

I am willing to admit that both of these issues can be explained away by the fact they are a hydra, and it is doubtful that there is the will to lynch them, so I am not going to push this lynch today. I am not willing to clear them completely of being Stark just because of MoI's flip. Since they are a strong group of players, their lynch was unlikely, and on top of that both MoI and Twilight are reasonable targets for nightkills, so there would have been a definite benefit if they distanced from each other, and the risk of it ending in a lynch was low.

Vote Andrius

[Thor665]

* IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THE VC IS GREEN WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE FRIENDS.

*Moves arms to form four concentric rings all touching*
*Moves fingers over head in halo shape*
*Points at beer and then at mouth*
*shrug*

@Zdenek - nothing for Nexus though?

[Zdenek]

@Zdenek - nothing for Nexus though?

I think there is a good case for Nexus being scum, I think it's essentially covered in Magua's post (except I don't think he mentioned the fact that Nexus said that diddin would be a bad day one lynch, which could have been one scum buddy softly protecting another), but my vote can only be in one place.

[Magua]

So you expect the SK to have NO extra power whatsoever? "You are a mafia B goon. You have no partners, though, good luck beating the 5 man scumteam i put in the game with every single member having a power. I'm an evil, evil moderator, go to hell."

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

I would expect an SK who is rolecopped to either come up as, "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" *or* "Vanilla" depending upon investigation immunity dynamics. I would not expect them to come up with only *part* of their role.

Your attitudes toward danakillsu and zdenek seem rather inconsistent with eachother.

How so? Dana could be a Stark goon. Zdenek, IMO, cannot possibly be Stark. Where's the inconsistency?

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 3.10

Zdenek (2) Shadow1psc, Bunnylover

Nexus (3) Magua, Thor665, popsofctown

Twilight Sparkle (2) Hasdgfas, Raivann
Setael (1) Danakillsu

Raivann (3) Twilight Sparkle, Kast, Setael

Danakillsu (1) LynchMePls
Shadow1psc (2) Locke Lamora, Raivann
Andrius (1) Zdenek

Not voting (4) Nexus, Benmage, Andrius, DrippingGoofball

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Time to get social aka quicktopic time deadline is here
Deadline for lynches is here

*No one due a prod.
* Vc mistakes? Point them out.
* IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THE VC IS GREEN WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE FRIENDS.

[DrippingGoofball]

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

So what does modified mean? Modified with a nightkill?

We can lynch Zdenek-SK, and tomorrow we can lynch Kast-rolecop-scum. I will be NK'd by the scum for suggesting this, unless a few of you express your willingness to carry out this plan, sincere or not. But try to be convincing.

VOTE: Zdenek

[Thor665]

What if we'd appreciate a DGB nightkill?

I buy Kast rolcop scum more than Zdenek, but I don't see Kast scum roleclaim revealing on Day 3 or doing the pressure he did on Feysal yesterday, so...no. Let's not do that.

[popsofctown]

So you expect the SK to have NO extra power whatsoever? "You are a mafia B goon. You have no partners, though, good luck beating the 5 man scumteam i put in the game with every single member having a power. I'm an evil, evil moderator, go to hell."

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

I would expect an SK who is rolecopped to either come up as, "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" *or* "Vanilla" depending upon investigation immunity dynamics. I would not expect them to come up with only *part* of their role.

Your attitudes toward danakillsu and zdenek seem rather inconsistent with eachother.

How so? Dana could be a Stark goon. Zdenek, IMO, cannot possibly be Stark. Where's the inconsistency?

An SK's nightkill can be considered factional. Calling the scum's nightkill factional but the SK's kill part of the PR is a rather silly nerf for an already weak role, but if you have a meta that says the mod is into that I guess it's possible. He could also have a small number of partners, or be outright scum, or be a survivor, etc etc. It's a theme game.

My case is that zdenek's role+alignment claim matches up poorly with his play. Your counter argument is, "well, all the other possibilities are unlikely because of how I view the modWIFOM." While you might be right because outguessing in the mod always ends up being part of the game, hopefully you can at least see how I wouldn't be very happy about it.

[popsofctown]

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

So what does modified mean? Modified with a nightkill?

We can lynch Zdenek-SK, and tomorrow we can lynch Kast-rolecop-scum. I will be NK'd by the scum for suggesting this, unless a few of you express your willingness to carry out this plan, sincere or not. But try to be convincing.

VOTE: Zdenek

Let's deff do this starting tomorrow.

[Andrius]

HEHEHEHAHAHA

WALL INCOMING.

[Andrius]

Day One

RVS time!

Vote: danakillsu

BASTARD CULT FTL

Raise: DGB

<3

Give that bitch a one-shot Governor ability.
Bitches

loooove

Governors.

Unvote

Back to reading.

Self-raising is definitely scummy.

I also thought GreyICE's campaigning for Governor was a bit odd. No, really odd.
Then I realized that even if she were to Governor a scumbuddy of hers, she'd out herself that way. Unless it were in a LyLo situation then yeah.
Unless GreyICE's role has something to do with keeping Player1 alive throughout the game, it doesn't make much sense- the massive push.
Did we ever learn if the Governor power ended the day upon use, or no?

Mod: If this hasn't been asked before: does using the Governor power from D1-Raising end the DP upon usage?

How exactly does TP work? I mean, I have no problems with it but I find it highly odd that all them good players are piled in together like that. And not dead yet. Magna didn't die N1? Scum.

Magua brings up a good point, but we'd have to FIND the scum first. Magua gets town-points.

SOIAF gets scumpoints. Meh. Enters with a random vote and doesn't comment on the game. Yeah, there's only one.five pages, but I don't like the entrance.

shadow, you always random vote. Its for a purpose.

The point of everyone raising themselves is another way of saying they don't find anyone town enough/ don't trust anyone enough. I see it as scummy, but since LOLVIs do it all the time then it'll be near-impossible to ferret out who is scum and not just based on that.
Cow and Magna gain scumpoints. As does LL, but I'm holding out on him for the moment. LMP to a lesser extent. GreyICE is well... FFF.

CSL self-hammered? LOLNO SON. NOT HAPPENING THIS GAME.
HARSH WORDS for any self-hammerers.

To those who did not play in Clash of Kings please review it. A VI (CSL) killed the Town. He had been under pressure early on (Day 2) and was let of the hook for being a VI. Later he quickhammered the Town Doctor before a claim could be made and was still not held accountable. Obviously scum left him for the end-game scenario where he self-hammered as Town and facilitated the scum joint win.

The moral of the story – if a VI player is playing scummy you lynch / vig them. Giving a VI a pass based on being a VI assures they get deeper in the game where their poor decisions and actions have a greater negative impact be they Town or Scum.

This just reads "kill them VIs while you can. Oh and yeah, thanks FaraCore for not giving my scumteam any."
So yeah. While VIs need death, I get the feeling Magna was attempting to draw attention on them from his non-VI buddies. Meh. Does that make sense? >_>
But with 3 Starks dead, I'm a bit hesitant to actively push that, since we don't know how many more of them there are. (Anywhere from 1-3; 3 if the Starks are the only mafia group)

GreyICE's response to Magua here is bad. Yeah, scum helping scum is bad. But it also helps us catch them. 8)

GreyICE is either a VI or scum. I don't see how he can take the "OHGOD DGB-VIG" thing seriously and not be an idiot.

GreyICE is being incredibly anti-town. I can't even fathom how he'd play as confirmed town with this lunacy. Seriously. Is he basically saying he has no town reads?
danakillsu gets townpoints for voting the self-voters and raising the anti self-raisers. DGB is a good choice.

But now that DGB and others have killed the possible useful information that could be gleaned from the self-raise / raise others information

I’m going to explain why it would have been better to let it go for several pages before getting all up in arms about it.

Oh I read it loud and clear. Your self-vote was scum-driven. Let's see who else self-voted and find them scumbuddies, yes?

Magna and GreyICE are not scum together. Which is good.
DGB is also not scum with GreyICE; not like it matters but.

BUNNYLOVER.
I've seen you play. Now tell, me why

the hell

did you self-raise?

Never played with danakillsu before and I'm very happy with his play here. Also not scum with GreyICE.

I have no flavor knowledge of Zoraster's character. I can wiki him, but does anyone have any guesses as to who he has to lynch? /not offtopic, answer if its convenient.

This is just like Super Smash Bros. Brawl where we had to nominate a person every day to get the smash ball. Eventually, were going to pick a person as a town and give them this power.

HAHAHAHA.
YOU HAVE HANDED ME THE HOLY GRAIL.
LOOK HERE MAGNA, I CAN DO STATISTICS TOO. 8)

Because I am leery of people who say "Policy lynching a VI D1 is the smart move" when there's more than one VI.

Fate's #1 scumtell is this.
D2: "NO WE ARE LYNCHING IDIOT TODAY."
D3: "WE ARE LYNCHING F***TARD TODAY."
And they all flip town. I WONDER WHY?
/coupled in with strategic bussing, of course.

shadow is making excuses for his lack of scumhunting by telling jokes and stuff. While I appreciate light-hearted players behind games, its not helping at all. South of town for sure.

OHGOD CHESSKID IS CRUMBING.
Seriously, he's basically using his role to replace a lack of effort. Definitely idiot, definitely town, definitely VT. (Yes I know I've seen the flips. But still. I over-compensate-crumb as VT.)

Mikujin earns funny points. lol

Twilight Sparkle needs to tag its heads.

Poor Percy is screwed because of his performance last game. No one wants to raise him now.

Honestly, I'm glad I didn't get it. I mean, yeah I'm town, but I don't see it getting much mileage.
I DON'T see Governor as useful for town. Yeah, its good on a town-read, but if there's significant pressure to lynch someone and you want to save them as a town-read, you probably should let them flip for the majority, unless you know they're town via role information.

I do agree with TS. Statistics barrage early D1 doesn't do much good.

GreyICE not voting Magna at this point is wrong. I agree with not using the Governor thing, but all this attack on Magna and no vote is bollocks.

If town gets Governor they shouldn't use it. Ever. Unless they're masons with an idiot and have to save the idiot with it. /which would work really well, but. 8P

Helloooo Kast.

not at all impressed with shado.

GreyICE is REALLY REALLY REALLY desperate for the Governor thing. Makes me wonder when she replaced out.

You know what would be great? If we could stop the soft-claiming going on ...

I agree with this. Especially because most idiots don't know HOW to crumb and softclaim properly.

I'm as firm believer in a policy I can't fully articulate, but diddin being scum makes sense because his only real attacks so far have been in weaker players than himself.

I agree with Benmage. One of the late-joiners is probably scum. Won't be hard to cross-reference with posting elsewhere, so.

Whoa Benmage. Why does danakillsu need to die?
And why do you have town-VIs listed on your to-die list?

Disagree. We won't lynch all the VIs. That's a Fate-scum thing to do. You're turning into your worst nightmare.

I thought Stannis worked with Stark? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I was under. :S

Hello Raivann. More than a vote please. Though its funny how we JUST talked about scum hiding in the shadows and Enzo-Raivann comes in from the shadows with only a vote. Can it be that easy?

Locke Lamora reads town. For the moment.

The middlemen will be stuck to win this.

But I

hate

being the last one standing all the time. It'd be great to get NK'd right off the bat sometime, even as an ego-boost.

I am playing the actual game. I am trying to help the town win by keeping the powers out of the hands of players I don't trust. At the moment that's, well... everyone.

This post strikes me

as a bit scummy

. Particularly the last sentence.

Unvote
Vote: GreyICE

This post strikes me as a bit scummy.

as a bit scummy.

orly?
Just a bit?

DGB, your reads on shadow and greyice perplex me.
I too can see Cow faking a restriction.
But they're VIs, and I can't easily label them as TOWNIER THAN THOU that easily. :/

Oh, and he budded up to Benmage, so Benmage is prob town if MoI is scum.

Don't know how to take this. But bringing it up again for reference.

Hey DGB - if Locke is certified scum why is your vote still on LynchMePls? Just curious.

This reads "DGB is not a Stark". Don't know about LMP.

Locke, suspend your disbelief about DGB. I trust you; now trust me and we'll make it through.

Nexus leans town.

Magua isn't a Stark, via diddin.

SongofIceandFire is very agreeable. "I agree this, I agree that". Anything original? HRM?

Although I have to agree with GreyICE and LL on Mikujin's over-apologizing about the prod. Scum care overly about what the town thinks of them.

BEFORE I FORGET THAT:

Reads as of page 9-ish.

TOWNIER THAN THOU:
Benmage
Percy (:P)
Danakillsu
DGB
Magua
Kast
Bunnylover
Locke Lamora

NULL:
LMP
shadow
hito/Mina/Sotty

FFF-FURCOLOW ALT (god knows if he's town or not; needs death NOW):
GreyICE

SCUMMIER THAN THOU:
ASOIAF
Raivann
Zdenek
Mikujin

Hate to break it to you, DGB, but scum will totally go out-of-QT to coordinate. In SAIII kunkstar and I planned to be on MSN Messenger in order to organize a quickhammer (that never happened). Mina coodinates with people via AIM because she was away for a week+ back in February. So yeah, that's not a town-tell.

Mikujin claims he's caught up but unvotes. hito is right with that "if not voting not caught up". Mikujin is SCUM, Sers and Ladies. (Hellooooo Cersei )

I agree with the throw-the-governor-away-first-chance thing. One less thing to worry about.

While it's by no means dangerous for me to use it at this point, I've no grounded suspicion of any one person at this time.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Vote: Mikujin

I was totally going to ask zor about LL, but then realized zor's dead. *sigh*

I do believe that if Twilight Sparkle is town, they and I will have similar reads

THIS. Because scum HAVE to be more careful with their reads and will bicker about reads in-hydra. /never been scum in a hydra, I've just been able to see scum-hydras play.

GreyICE, if the Hand of the King is so anti-town, then why do you expect that someone who is pro-town would campaign to get it? Do you think that it is possible for someone to campaign for the Hand on grounds that are different from yours and still be pro-town?

BEHEHAHAHAHAHA
I like this guy. Watching closer-ly.

Mod If you passed the sentence, would you swing the sword?

XD
Answer determines if mod is pro-scum or pro-town. 8P

@DGB - are you sure enough that Hascow is scum that you would be willing to be lynched tomorrow if he flips town?

WTFSCUM

THORRRRRRR665.

hasCow should be making the most of his post restriction, trying to NOT be confusing as shit.
He's not trying to help, and is thus leaning scum in my mind.
Go read Quirkytown, Large Theme by SC. The players who had SHIT post restrictions and TRIED to help were town (SaintKerrigan); those who didn't bother to post *coughHaylen&inflatapiecough* were scum. 8P

The user named "Song of Ice and Fire" got replaced out of a ASoIaF game. That is not a good sign for that slot.

I agree.

Mikujin's totally scum with HasCow for THIS. Bottom block.
Followed up by the magical "v/la for unspecified time amount". 8P
MMHMM

Dana comes in and buddies with DGB, all three of his points are "OMGILOVEYOUDGB"

Wait for an ongoing game to end. THEN you will see massive DGB-buddying.

Feysal, for you, the catchup NEVER ENDS.

Even shit-play has its purpose, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.

I almost had a heartattack when DGB replaced out. Then GreyICE replaced out.
And the clouds broke, and angels sung "HALLEFUCKINGLUJAH".

I can vouch for chesskid being killed N1. He WAS obvMason though, so.

I love how big of an ego Cow-dayvig has with the whole taunting-chesskid thing. I'm Sirius. Its annoying.

Hello DTM.

I don’t like Cow’s offering it up unbidden and I don’t like his attempt to skirt responsibility by making it a voted move.

I DO agree with this though.

Day One, Post DayKill

Townly
GreyICE - maybe
Magua - TOWN
Twighlight - maybe
Chesskid - DEAD TOWN
Feysal - DEAD TOWN
Zoraster - DEAD 3RD PARTY

Scummy
Mikujin - SCUM
Benmage - TOWN
Shadow - maybe

I agree with LMP's ideas with this list, and he gets the credit for it.

Scum getting Neighbor helps to offset the possibility of masonries. More info on why scum has neighborizer and we don't, but I won't go into it now.

Agreeing with LMP; hascow is not Stark. Even with a daykill as scum, he's not stark. I can't see that happening.

Aaaaaand Percy leaves.

Where's KmD to say Dayvig doesn't mean town!

Dayvig

doesn't

mean town. ESPECIALLY one-shot. Hell, I'm leaning even more towards cow-scum for a reason I can't talk about now. :/



Shadow is moving into town territory by his play. Posting without thinking isn't something scum do, and I like his more recent D1 stuff.

I especially don't like Nexus' "If you're demanding a raise" in post #844. This isn't the sort of thing that should need to be demanded; it should be something that comes about because pro-town play is that you should do *something*, not kvetch and moan that someone is telling you to do something.

I understand your concern. I read it as a joke (raise = wage/promotion) but you are more correct than I with thread going-ons, so.

END DAY ONE.

READS AS OF D2 DAWN

TOWNIER THAN THOU:
Benmage
Ghostlin [:P]
Magua
DGB

LEANING TOWN:
danakillsu
shadow
Kast
Bunnylover
Locke Lamora

Null:
LMP
Twilight Sparkle
DTMaster

LEANING SCUM:
Cow
Raivann
Zdenek

SCUMMIER THAN THOU:
Mikujin
Thor665

I realize I might be missing people. Sorry if I did.

DAY TWO

Not too warm to the LL-confirmed town piece, but I'll put him under leaning town. I had a semi-town read on him before, but don't really like the confirmed-town via some 3rd party.

Twilight Sparkle is looking worse, sorry guys.

One of Twilight Sparkle and Mikujin are scum. I put my money on Mikujin.
One of these three is scum: Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665. I put my money on Locke Lamora.

Mikujin and Thor665.
D'oh.

Hello Setael. You're still scum.

Thor pushing Mikujin is curious. I don't know if he was expecting it though; it WAS part of my strategy for SAIII after all.

I hadn't noticed dana's tunneling on Mikujin. hito brings up a good point.

In this game I am learning that apparently the only town thing to do is post nothing until you have read up.

That USED to be my thoughts. But then I saw the Tywin claim and had to say something.

2)Are you suggesting that Chesskid was the Stark kill?

Naw, because OBVIOUSLY the Starks shot one of their own for the lulz.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.
Thor cannot cop-out and move his vote just because "the hand said so". Bullshit. Benmage could be scum. He is probably town though. Regardless, that's a horrid cop-out of a vote; not taking responsibility for your vote like Cow asked for popular votes for his kill.

Thor replaced into a Newbie game of mine where I was scum_IC. He replaced in and then proceeded to own, until the deadline owned him. He's amazing, and I've never seen him this... abrasive.

DTM, it was the Guys Pt. II Mini. Ythan won with a scum-lynch. Broke the game wide open IMO. (And like alot of dram minis, ended before D3. )

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUU
Magna's push on TwilightUnicorn makes me think the latter isn't Stark. With 2 dead scumbuddies that quickly I can't see them THAT eager to push a bus-lynch especially when MoI was regarded as town by most players.

"Why the fuck did LMP claim" is right.
WTF

/on a semi-related note, have we ever played together before?

If anyone cared (MoI is dead) SuperSmashBrothersMafia, where the town voted daily to give someone NK-Immunity and an Unstoppable Kill, town and scum were equally likely to self-raise. The 3 masons all raised each other while the scumteams were very conservative in raising each other. I only looked at D1 though. Each of the 3 masons were raised.

Setael's focus on Bunnylover's lack of self-esteem (that's not the best way to describe it, but) is bad and scummy. Bunnylover is town here, both from actions and supported by meta (yaaaay XP).

Too many players who are Obv-Town at this point.

This is a problem... how? Because there are too many people for you to kill?
Trust me, I know. SAIII. Goddamn confirmed townies.

Thor's reread is FAIL. Sorry buddy, you're more obvscum than I usually am.

CONFESSION: I read Ghostlin's ISO prior to replacing in. I thought it was scummy. I was nervous. Got my role, was ecstatic. 8D

Where's nexus? He's plenty active in the game he's nodding that I'm in.

I really, really dislike this. 'Plenty active' constitutes Nexus fulfilling his normal modding duties with what, two posts? This is lazy, lacks context and indicates that you're just interested in trying to make Nexus look scummy. I am very tempted to vote you after this.

I agree with The Locke. More Setael votes please.

Page 21-23

Drama, oh noes!!1!

Page 24

Liking Zdenek.

Page 29

Does anyone else see the problem with this? Reread of 8 pages and he gets nothing useful from it?
YEAH, RIGHT.

Benmage's fanclub defense is craps. Sorry Brother, but there's no way you know Setael to be town like that. Sorry. 3 Elven Rings.

At this point there are 4 people I want lynched and NO ONE is bothering to do anything. Upsetting.

Feysal is town, guys. WTF. I think I can read my cultbuddy fairly well.

Hascow, Voyeurs were created by Plum. Appeared in her Large, a Lay of Leithian, Lord of the Rings Mafia, and my mini. That's my off-the-top-of-my-head knowledge.

END OF DAY TWO.
FUCK YOU GUYS AND THE FEYSAL LYNCH.

END OF DAY TWO READS:

TOWNIER THAN THOU:
Locke Lamora
DGB
Magua
Ghostlin [:P]

Leaning Town:
Benmage
danakillsu
shadow
Kast
Bunnylover

Null:
LMP
DTMaster (GreyICE was scum. DTM is town. WTF)

Leaning Scum:
HasCow
Zdenek
Twilight Sparkle

SCUMMIER THAN WEARING ORANGE ON ST. PATTY'S DAY:
Raivann
Setael/Mikujin
Thor665

Day The Third

LMP, if he has more than one kill, and isn't bullshitting, is town.
(Or at least, scum that's not SK and not Stark).

AHAHAHAAHA. Zdenek is now wearing orange. TYWIN LANNISTER MY ASS.

My thoughts on Zdenek?
Pre-claim: Scum
Post-claim: SCUM

LOLOL BULLETPROOF = SCUM.
HIDER = SCUM FAKECLAIM.
VOYEUR = TOWN.
Do people not understand how this works?
Its Setup Design 201.

@ TWILIGHTUNICORN:
BECAUSE CHESSKID WAS FLIPPANT TOWN, AS WAS TYRION.
YE GODS.

ZDENEK, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
1) GOOGLE SEARCH: "HANDS OF THE KING"
2) FIND A LIST
3) PULL OUT ALL THE "LANNISTERS"
4) DON'T FORGET TO RULE OUT TYWIN (YOUR FAKECLAIM) AND DEAD CHARACTERS (EDDARD)
5) CHESSKID IS TYRION
6) DONT LYNCH HIM = TOWN

GAHHHHHHH

Softclaiming a Lannister Hand for A Storm of Swords is softclaiming Tywin or Tyrion. If you really were Tywin, and you KNEW of Tyrion's existance, you'd know chess was Tyrion.

THISTHISTHIS.

kast: It's not exactly easy to "act in a manner to draw NKs".

Yes it is:
"Hi I'm a Lannister Mason."

"TO WINGS MY BROTHERS. KEEP UP WITH ME IF YOU CAN."

YES LMP, IF HE CLAIMS SERIAL KILLER WE LYNCH HIM.
DUH.
GAWD.

Raivann is an ass.

Vote: Zdenek

READS AS OF NOW:

TOWNIER THAN AN IRISHMAN:
Magua
DGB
Locke
Andrius [:P]

AS TOWN AS AN IRISHMAN:
Benmage
Kast
Bunnylover
LynchMePls
shadow
danakillsu

FFFFF:
popsofctown (because of GreyICE, haven't decided)

WEARING ORANGE ON PATRICK'S DAY:
HasCow
That hydra with hito in it

SCUMMIER THAN WEARING ORANGE ON PATRICK'S DAY:
ZDENEK
SETAEL
THOR665
RAIVANN

[Andrius]

Don't feel like making specific cases now.
I'm going to reward myself by playing a round of BFME on Gondolin.

I'll be back later.

[Andrius]

EBWOP:
Questions/Comments/Cases you'd like to see me make?

/sorry for quadruple post

[Magua]

You know who's missing from your lists?

Nexus.

[Magua]

Also, your stance on Zdenek knowing Chesskid puzzles and confuses me.

If Zdenek's role is as-claimed, and Zdenek is town, then Zdenek should know that Chesskid is town. Yes, lovely, agreed.

Where do you see Zdenek act like this is *not* the case?

[Shadow1psc]

Your summary of the game looks correct, and really should enforce the belief that Thor is scummy. Yes there was a lot of material to cover, but even less so than Andrius just did, and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed. This is a dumb move as town or scum, but a much more likely move from scum, who don't have to worry so much about analyzing every little thing said, and can coast.

[Magua]

Your summary of the game looks correct, and really should enforce the belief that Thor is scummy. Yes there was a lot of material to cover, but even less so than Andrius just did, and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed. This is a dumb move as town or scum, but a much more likely move from scum, who don't have to worry so much about analyzing every little thing said, and can coast.

I want to see if I'm reading this right:
- Thor took a long time (many days) to complete his reread of some 40 pages or so.
- Andrius took less than 24 hours to complete his reread of some 60 pages or so.
- Scum are more likely to skim; town are more likely to actually read.
- Thor is scum, Andrius is town.

Do I have your argument correct?

[danakillsu]

A single tear sprang to my eye when reading that post from Andrius.
Brilliant, my man, simply brilliant.

[Shadow1psc]

Your summary of the game looks correct, and really should enforce the belief that Thor is scummy. Yes there was a lot of material to cover, but even less so than Andrius just did, and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed. This is a dumb move as town or scum, but a much more likely move from scum, who don't have to worry so much about analyzing every little thing said, and can coast.

I want to see if I'm reading this right:
- Thor took a long time (many days) to complete his reread of some 40 pages or so.
- Andrius took less than 24 hours to complete his reread of some 60 pages or so.
- Scum are more likely to skim; town are more likely to actually read.
- Thor is scum, Andrius is town.

Do I have your argument correct?

It's more about the way they came back and presented/commented on the information. I still don't feel like Thor actually read the majority of the game, even after he admitted for the first long while that he only read the first 10 pages, and said he was going to go back and read. When he claimed to have read more... he didn't really have much to say, not even a list of reads, and just kinda went back into business as usual. I realize not everyone has the time to read 40+ pages and make a commentary in 24 hours, but it makes me feel better about Andrius for having put in the effort, and scowl at Thor for not having put in the same effort replacing into a game this size with that amount of content.

[Thor665]

@Shadow - I actually think I have been very aggressive, loud, and clear with my reads. I don't tend to do lists, and last I checked MoI - lord high king of lists and walls, flipped scum, so maybe you should reexamine the validity of the tell you're trying to use here.

@Magua - <3

@dana - is that total agreement with Andrius there?

@Andrius - "I've seen Thor play as town, he played really well...I'll now leave him at the bottom of my scum list because he sheeped someone I'm calling obv. town, he went 8 pages without feeling there was a major tell to mention (because everyone knows major tells come every 3.6 pages, regular as clockwork) he was ..abrasive with scum MoI over town reads Thor had, and he fought against the Feysal lynch I am calling terribad and am angry at town for doing.

Did I translate that right? Your catch up read has lots of links back to posts and is very pretty to look at, but seems more focused on individual tells than looking at the tapestry of the game, and also suffers from not evaluating any relationships after any flips. if you're town you owe us better than that. I 2nd-5th the Nexus question from Magua.

[Andrius]

Well.
He's in my excel sheet, so I don't know why he never shows up, to be honest.
There are some players I just forget about, and he happens to be one of them. Some players I just ignore; ender and Katsuki in recently-ended Cult v. Masons (DANAKILLSU I WON AS MASON RECRUITER <3).

I'll ISO him later or something and get back to you. Cool?

Zdenek may not have known [[chesskid = Tyrion]] but he knew Tyrion and WITH BASIC BRAINS he could have figured out chesskid = Tyrion as I outlined in the last part of the wall.


SHADOW.

and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed.

IS THIS REGARDING ME OR THOR?

(I'll be really pissed if you think I put my entire last day to reading the goddamn thread and catching up and you think I SKIMMED.)

When I actually put my head into reading it took less than 24.

@ dana:

OH sorry, shadow, disregard the above. I see your next post. <3

The particular order on the scumlist/townlist isn't set in stone; the scumlist has no particular order to it, you're all just scum.
Yes, you play well as town. I've also seen you as scum to an extent.
Your lack of dedication to the reread is very scummy. It didn't take that long, once you power through it.

The post could have been much prettier, but once I finished I wanted to post it rather than go back for colors and pictures and fonts. :S
There are plenty of relationships.
They factor into my reads.
I would outline all my reads, I was just more focused on actually READING and catching up.

I said I'd do specific player reads and details later on; I'm sapped at the moment.


I am town.
I will post more on reads and stuff, but you're not one to talk AT ALL. If YOU are town YOU owe us better than what you've given, which doesn't amount to much; let's be honest. You've proven that you are scum by not caring to read or whatnot; if you're not going to put the goddamn time into reading you might as well claim scum or replace out. Its not too late to replace out; I was perfectly willing to answer the summons. I did my duty.

You are a dishonor to the Lannisters. Die like a dog, cur.

Magua, I'll address the Zdenek thing later; I don't want to go ISO-hunting for Zdenek interactions and I CERTAINLY don't have everything down off the top of my head.

I know who my brothers are.
Zdenek is not one of them.
Nor is Thor.

-Ser Andrius Walker

[Thor665]

I will post more on reads and stuff, but you're not one to talk AT ALL. If YOU are town YOU owe us better than what you've given, which doesn't amount to much; let's be honest.

Seriously? Your defense is pot meet kettle? What level of "better" do you think I owe?

[Kast]

How dare I decide he's not SK because for him to be SK two different players are lying to support his fakeclaim.
Whut?

This is false. My info itself is completely consistent with Zdenek-SK. "Modified Kill Immune" and "Modified NK Immune" are not inconsistent with being an SK and you have never attempted to claim that.

You have claimed that the ability "becomes bulletproof when player X dies" is inconsistent with an SK. If your claim is true (it is not but for sake of argument we'll leave that aside), then EITHER Zdenek is town telling the truth OR Zdenek is scum lying about how his ability is modified. From a town PoV, we don't know which it is (this is what pops is saying).

YOU are taking the VI PoV and assuming that Zdenek's claimed modification is definitely true, which makes him unlikely to be an SK. Assuming that he is telling the truth in order to clear him is completely irrational.

-A VI is a village idiot. It's a player who plays like an idiot. Some examples of VI behavior are aiming for an early game No-Lynch, using crap-logic or no reasoning at all to clear a player who should not be cleared (ie. Scummy Player A told us he's not scum, so he can't be scum), voting your town reads for no reason, getting easily confused by extremely simple and clear situations, etc., etc.

-Assuming you meant Magua's towntell on shadow, I'm not giving much weight to it. It's plausible Shadow is being honest. It's also possible he's reacting to the sample role PM. For me, I had no clue who the Lannisters were, and I asked the mod if Lannister equals town prior to reading the thread/sample role PM. I find it plausible that someone else could see red font and think mafia.

@Magua-

If he's an SK, he's some sort of rolecop investigation immune.

This needs some explaining.

@Magua/Pops-
I'm a role-name cop. I don't know what the actual powers of a player are, just what their role-name is. I am not told the alignment of a player, so if I investigated an SK, I would not be told "Serial Killer". If he had other powers, like "Bulletproof Serial Killer", then I'd be told he is "Bulletproof". Similarly with mafia; if I investigate a Mafia Roleblocker, I would be told "Roleblocker", but not that the player is mafia. Technically, Dana could be a Vanilla Townie, Mafia Goon, (Vanilla?) Serial Killer, or some investigation immune role. Mod didn't clarify what exactly a (Vanilla?) Serial Killer is, but in a Large Theme, that's an unlikely enough possibility to be ignored.

If Zdenek is mafia OR SK, then he would have a kill ability that I don't learn anything about.

-As far as mod-correction not being a clear; technically you're right. In all the games I've ever played, mods never make corrections like that when it doesn't matter. It's somewhat outguessing the mod, but otherwise it's toeing the line of mod involvement.

sk hunting as a rule is generally a post-massclaim activity when we know for sure whether there are spare kills floating around.

This is BS. Lynching a caught SK is not the same as "SK Hunting" and your posts and similar ones before have been equating the two. If an SK is found, he's almost always a better lynch than scum because it eliminates a kill and directly translates into more days/nights for town to find/lynch scum.

I would expect an SK who is rolecopped to either come up as, "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" *or* "Vanilla" depending upon investigation immunity dynamics. I would not expect them to come up with only *part* of their role.

That's not how it works and I don't buy for one second that you believe it would. Anyone who comes up as "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" is OBVIOUSLY an SK. Someone coming up as "Modified NK Immune" is still fairly damning but leaves some wiggle room.

@DGB-
So, I went from unknown, but positive -(posts crap you generally like and agree with)> scum by PoE -(claims cop with results)> let's lynch him tomorrow.

@Andy-
Ugh...too long. I skimmed. Seems fairly reaqsonable on first pass.

Anyway, side point that everyone should keep in mind. Benmage is still a Governor. When we go to our tables, we need to agree on a lynch with enough time to pick a second candidate if Ben vetoes the first one.

[hasdgfas]

@has - will want your feedback on that flavor claim, but also want your thoughts on your vote as currently stands

unvote

*points to tongue*
*rubs belly*

Here is flavour:

The quote in italics is "Nothing is won so long as we have enemies in the field." You are Tywin Lannister, Lannister Aligned, leader of the House Lannister and one of the most influential men in the Westeros. You will persevere until all your enemies are vanquished. Remember a Lannister always pays his debts.

*shrugs*

Magua's recent actions in the 'not subtle' fishing category.

vote: raivann

*pretends to be stupid*

[Thor665]

-A VI is a village idiot. It's a player who plays like an idiot. Some examples of VI behavior are aiming for an early game No-Lynch, using crap-logic or no reasoning at all to clear a player who should not be cleared (ie. Scummy Player A told us he's not scum, so he can't be scum), voting your town reads for no reason, getting easily confused by extremely simple and clear situations, etc., etc.

Okay then, I hate you - please stop calling me this. You may still refer to me as having bad logic in whatever manner pleases you and makes you feel better, but if you call me "playing like an idiot" without some actual reason behind it I will be most put out. I accept that I currently play different than the agreed upon method of play - but that doesn't make me an idiot, that makes me a minority unless you can produce factual evidence that your method is superior.

The VI logic of the claims had very little to do with the specific wording of what your investigation was, and very much to do with how he responded to it and I said as much. If you're going to debate it please at least debate everything I'm arguing. I do believe his claim is not likely to be an SK, but that is subsidiary to deciding that how he claimed meant he wasn't an SK.

Also, since you now don't want to lynch him and seem to agree that his claim is at least functional for the moment...why are we still arguing this? If you want me to just say "Kast is smart, huzzah!" I can do that if it advances the gamestate again.

Please re-read Andrius - he's not good at a glance. He might be good after a few more days of posting, but not right now.