Open 289 - Hard Boiled - Game over.

[DarthYoshi]

I feel like this game is stalling some whilst this Regfan/Iam/Umbrage triangle keeps jabbering. (As an aside, I was hesitant about getting a read on Regfan before he voted, but his entry so far looks pretty townish.) 1 week to deadline, folks.

@Krazy: Any particular reason why your vote remains on ConSpiracy? It seems like a somewhat outdated vote from my perspective.

@Abelcain and Quaraoth: Please put some votes out, like, now.

@Xtoxm: You’ve picked up your prod, some content would be nice.

Will be re-reading Abelcain in light of Regfan’s scumread on him. If I have time to do a full ISO, I will.

[Abelcain]

Hey guys, I'm back. I'm going to be playing catch-up for the last page or so, so I apologize in advance if I ask a question that you already answered and I missed the answer.

In every thing else you are telling us everything some players (me, SE, Abel) have posted very good while others (Umbrage, DY) have only posted bad things. This was in consensus of the thread back then, although for example I hadn't done a thing back then: The RVS-thingie, and some questions towards Umbrage.

How exactly can you call that "consensus of the thread?" I didn't like anything about your posting record in the first few pages, I just had problems with Umbrage's attacks on Snake (specifically, the way Umbrage was attacking Snake for doing the same things you did but he was letting you slide on them). And neither Vordark (in that post) nor anyone earlier on in the game had any problems with Darth, so why are you saying the thread considered DY's posting bad?

I've got to say, I don't really see a whole lot of buddying in the catch-up post either. Unless you're trying to make the argument that anyone saying that they think someone else is town is buddying, it looks like Vordark was just stating what he thought. Even if it was "consensus of the thread," that doesn't make it buddying.

I think that is all. And I would like every body to remember we are playing a game here. Mass-claiming may give us better odds, but it ruins the fun of the game. Setup speculation always seems to help us, but it distracts us from playing mafia. Please stop it.

I don't like the way CS said this. Yes, we're playing a game here, but you have to remember that one of the main rules of Mafia is to play towards your win condition. I don't condone doing anything that would break any other rules, but we would be stupid if we didn't at least go over the potential for massclaiming and the information about the setup.

@

Why Umbrage Thinks Snake Eyes is Scum

: I understand your case completely, but I still don't like the way you just let CS slide away while you're attacking SE so hard. I think you should at

least

have thrown as much suspicion on CS as you did on Snake.

For one, he more or less says that I should find xtoxm more scummy than ConSpiracy because he's not getting out of RVS, which is weird.

Or, he was asking you why you bothered to state that you thought xtoxm was neutral and CS was scum, and why specifically you thought that. Come on, I asked you something similar about CS's wagon on you and Snake's wagon on you and you had no problem with answering me.

If he truly didn't understand my reasoning, then why did he vote me at this point? The logical thing to do if you don't understand someone's reasoning is to ask them to explain, not assume the reasoning is scummy and vote them.

Why me? As I said, I don't consider RVS means much in the way of scum versus town. I really don't think anyone can find scum on page one.

VOTE: ConSpiracy

You singled me out for a reason, but why would you ask for my thoughts when I said I find RVS meaningless?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Honestly, Umbrage, your whole case revolves around one minor contradiction made early in the game and what you perceive as a relationship between Snake and CS. Either come up with some more evidence (admittedly difficult, since Snake isn't the most active poster) or start looking for other suspects. Even if Snake is scum, he's not the only one in the game.

@ Umbrage: Your case sucks as hell. Please stop the tunneling.

OH OK I'LL DO THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE TOTALLY CONVINCED ME WITH YOUR BRILLIANT ARGUMENTS AND SHOT DOWN MY TWO PAGE ESSAY WITH YOUR ONE SENTENCE PLEASE LET'S HAVE MORE WISDOM FROM YOU.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR..................................................................................................................

MAYBE YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT I'M ATTACKING SNAKE EYES. HMMMMMM.............. LET'S SEE............. SNAKE EYES DEFENDS CONSPIRACY.............................. CONSPIRACY DEFENDS SNAKE EYES..................................... COULD THERE BE A CONNECTION??????????????????????????????????????????????

You have to be kidding me. Stop doing this. This is worse than the Krazy/Ythan argument.

Why do you guys not have a vote out? There's no excuse for not having one out this deep into D1.

I keep telling myself I'll vote when I see a vote count because I don't want to accidentally hammer/put someone to L-1 without meaning to, but I haven't been on the past few days so... yeah.

Wow, feels like I posted just yesterday but apparently it's been almost 4 days.

Posts like this shouldn't count as "responding to a prod." I know I haven't been around for about as long, but at least I'm trying to catch up.

Abelcain - Seems to have stood back a lot more then the other players in this game, he has posted logical and contructive posts however a lot have to do with defending suspicion away from himself rather than actively scumhunting. Leaning mafia read.

I know it's weird to ask this, but where exactly have I been defending myself? My gameplay is based around poking holes in other peoples' arguments and seeing where they lead. There hasn't been a whole lot of suspicion pointed at me through this whole game. I also try to respond more to things asked of me necessarily because I'm never sure when I'll suddenly have a lot of free time to work on my scumhunting as a whole. I know I haven't been super-active in this topic, but my Spring Break is coming up next week so I hope I'll be able to focus on this game a lot more than I have been.

Tomorrow afternoon I have another class, but once that one's over I'll be on spring break. More to come from my ISOs then. But for now...

Vote: Xtoxm

Stop skirting around the topic and give a real post. I know I got prodded too, but at least I gave a shot at some content.

[Quaroath]

Been getting my ass kicked at work, will catch up nd post toniht i hope, maybe tomorrow.

[iamausername]

Why else would he want me lynched?

1) Presumably, if he was town who thought you were scum, he would want you lynched.
2) Scum are not out to get you, specifically. There are 9 town players in this game. Scum could be trying to lynch any one of those players. Why do you assume they're trying to lynch

you

?
3) He's not even voting for you any more anyway. What makes you think he does want you lynched?

Even if I was scum, how would he know it at that time?

Well, he'd have to be scum with you. But this is a ridiculous question. You can vote people without being 100% certain that they are scum.

And why did he think CS was town?

Because CS was attempting to push the game past random voting into serious scumhunting, thus seemingly advancing a town win condition. Note also that Snake did not say "ConSpiracy is 100% confirmed town forever IDST". He said "I'm leaning slightly town on Conspiracy."

---

DarthYoshi - I would greatly appreciate if you could summarise the case against him into one post.

I suppose I could do that.

[Krazy]

Sorry I'm a bit behind in this game, I have a 50 page paper coming up. Will try to be caught up by Sunday.

unvote

[Vordark]

I'll be re-reading the last six or seven pages of the thread over the next day or two and seeing what shakes out. I'll be LA for that time, able to read but unlikely to post anything of substance until Friday night or Saturday.

[iamausername]

Here, Regfan.

THESE ARE ALL OF DARTH YOSHI'S POSTS.

Post #8: Nothing wrong with this one.

Post #17: Votes ConSpiracy for doing something pro-town. This is more dumb than scummy, though.

Post #23: Nothing wrong with this one.

Post #47: Loaded questions to four different people, plus a backhanded compliment to one more person. All of these serve to cast a low level of suspicion on each person, and little to no other purpose. The Umbrage question is especially bad in this regard.

Post #51: Says "Hunting for scumpairs before there have been any flips is junk science.", continues to imply a Snake Eyes/ConSpiracy scumpair based on next to nothing.

Post #120: Unnecessary over-explanation of his unvote. If you weren't convinced by the previous explanations for why this was scummy, I'm not going to do any better, so etc. Outright states that he is voting Krazy for behaviour "regardless of your alignment". Yoshi is yet to give any actual opinion on anyone. He's casting suspicion at a good half of the player list with loaded questions and insinuations, but he has not tied himself to any strong stance. He is leaving himself completely open to take whatever opinion is convenient later on.

Post #186: "I actually am liking your attempts to scumhunt on the lurkers, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there is a scum or two there, just hanging out while the town points fingers at one another."

Identifies a group, suggests that there is scum in that group, gives no indication of any opinion on which player in that group is more likely to be scum, or any indication that he is trying to determine which player in that group is more likely to be scum.

It's somewhat excusable in this case, since by definition, there's no easy way to determine who is scum out of a group of players who are not participating, but... well, we'll come back to this later.

Post #193: Correcting a minor point.

Post #194: Correcting a minor point.

Post #216: Huge post mostly concerned with defending himself. Vote now moves to Xtoxm for lurking. Still not seeing any actual opinions on who is town and who is scum anywhere. Still just seeing minor insinuations against virtually every player in the game. Specifically states that insinuating relationships between players, like for example the relationship he insinuated between Vordark and ConSpiracy, is scummy.

Post #254: Same again, pretty much.

Post #256: Correcting a minor point.

Post #258: Another huge post defending himself and nothing else.

Post #259: Correcting a minor point.

Post #260: Correcting a minor point.

Post #273: Huge post defending himself and nothing else. Also suggests that because he is no longer making certain fallacious accusations, no one should be allowed to use them against him any more.

Post #285: Yoshi finally finds a stance to commit to; Xtoxm is scum because he's not explaining himself, and straight up admits that he is voting Yoshi because Yoshi has the biggest wagon. That's some bold scumhunting right there.

Also, regarding his Krazy vote: "it would have been scummy to leave my vote on a player who was now being pro-town." Why would a town player be thinking about their own actions in terms of whether or not they are scummy? There's no reason for it. This is not a thing that a town player would say.

Post #286: Correcting a minor point.

Post #290: When Vordark tires of the endless self-replicating quote war and calls it quits, DarthYoshi suggests that he must be operating under confirmation bias because he has given up on trying to convince DarthYoshi that DarthYoshi is scum. "Confirmation bias" is a fun one to fall back on when you can't actually refute the arguments being made against you.

Post #297: DarthYoshi responds to my charge that he is not scumhunting by whining that he can't because all his time has been taken up arguing with Vordark. An argument that he just expended a significant amount of effort cajoling Vordark into continuing.

Also kinda sorta implies that maybe I'm scum, just to see if anyone goes with that.

Post #333: Oh, woe is DarthYoshi, he still can't do any scumhunting, because now he has to defend himself against Snake Eyes too.

Also kinda sorta implies that maybe Snake Eyes is scum, just to see if anyone goes with that.

Post #355: To Snake Eyes: "If you want other suspects from me, atm I think that probably either you or Umbrage is scum, but not probably not both."

This goes back to the point I made above about his comment that one of the lurkers is probably scum. He's identifying a group, in this case Snake and Umbrage, and suggesting that there is scum in this group, but gives no indication of any opinion on which player in that group is more likely to be scum, or any indication that he is trying to determine which player in that group is more likely to be scum.

He's just stirring the pot on the Snake/Umbrage slap fight with no real justification. It would be reasonable to draw the conclusion that Snake and Umbrage are not scum together based on their spat. It would even be reasonable to draw the conclusion that individually, Snake is scummy, and individually, Umbrage is scummy, but their spat suggests that they are not scum, and therefore one of them is scum but not the other. But that's not what Yoshi has done. He has jumped straight to the conclusion without first finding any reason for either of them to be scummy on their own merits. He has no reason to discount the possibility that this is a town-on-town fight. But he discounts it anyway, because it's not in his interest to point out when townies are town. Because he wants to lynch townies. Because he's scum.

Post #375: Aaaand, nothing wrong with this one. It's a post.

---

tl;dr: lol no I'm not summarising. You'll have to read it all.

In addition to all the above, the fact is that I have not seen one single towntell anywhere amongst his posts. Not even a sentence anywhere amongst the gigantic quote war with Vordark that makes me think "wait, I can't see scum saying that". Not one. I am just about the most confident I have ever been about a D1 vote here.

[Umbrage]

Come on, I asked you something similar about CS's wagon on you and Snake's wagon on you and you had no problem with answering me.

Don't recall that... but the only reason I said something about xtoxm was to see who tried to find it scummy. Because there really was no reason for me to say that. So it's not scummy. But Snake Eyes tried to make it seem that way.

1) Presumably, if he was town who thought you were scum, he would want you lynched.

On page 1?

2) Scum are not out to get you, specifically. There are 9 town players in this game. Scum could be trying to lynch any one of those players. Why do you assume they're trying to lynch you?

Because I specifically arranged it that way with my vote on CS.

3) He's not even voting for you any more anyway. What makes you think he does want you lynched?

I am talking about how he seemed SO CERTAIN I was scum earlier in the game. Really. If you're going to debate me, try to keep up.

Because CS was attempting to push the game past random voting into serious scumhunting, thus seemingly advancing a town win condition.

Nope. Try again. I already showed that trying to get out of RVS is not a towntell. So why did he find CS town? I still haven't found a valid answer for this.

Post on Vordark coming soon.

[iamausername]

1) Presumably, if he was town who thought you were scum, he would want you lynched.

On page 1?

3) He's not even voting for you any more anyway. What makes you think he does want you lynched?

I am talking about how he seemed SO CERTAIN I was scum earlier in the game. Really. If you're going to debate me, try to keep up.

OK, I thought you were somehow under the impression that Snake was still trying to lynch you.

In that case, I revise my question to "What makes you think Snake Eyes was trying to lynch you back then?"

2) Scum are not out to get you, specifically. There are 9 town players in this game. Scum could be trying to lynch any one of those players. Why do you assume they're trying to lynch you?

Because I specifically arranged it that way with my vote on CS.

So you think you managed to do something that townies would clearly see as not scummy, but scum would mistakenly believe was scummy, so the only people attacking you would be scum? Is that what you're saying?

Because CS was attempting to push the game past random voting into serious scumhunting, thus seemingly advancing a town win condition.

Nope. Try again. I already showed that trying to get out of RVS is not a towntell. So why did he find CS town? I still haven't found a valid answer for this.

No you didn't. You gave a ludicrous explanation for how it could be a scumtell, then said "my reason to call it a scumtell was stupid, therefore it's a nulltell."

Whether or not you think it's a towntell, that's it. That's the reason Snake found CS town. You rejecting that reason is not going to change the answer. The answer to the question of "why did Snake find CS town?" is that CS was attempting to push the game past random voting, and it will always be that CS was attempting to push the game past random voting, no matter how many times you repeat the question. No matter how many times you repeat the question, that will be the answer. That is the answer. That's the only answer you'll get. That's it. That's the reason. The reason that Snake found CS town is that. That will be the answer to your question, no matter how many times you repeat it. No matter how many times you repeat it, the answer will be that.

[Regfan]

I'll read this, collect my thoughts and have a post up tommorow morning, I don't think I can focus on a case this deep at 1am.

[Umbrage]

In that case, I revise my question to "What makes you think Snake Eyes was trying to lynch you back then?"

Because all the other reasons don't hold up. He's said he wasn't bandwagoning to get of RVS, but he's denied he had a scumread on me. I set myself up as an easy lynch target, and he pushed for my lynch.

So you think you managed to do something that townies would clearly see as not scummy, but scum would mistakenly believe was scummy, so the only people attacking you would be scum? Is that what you're saying?

I wanted reactions. I got one.

No you didn't. You gave a ludicrous explanation for how it could be a scumtell, then said "my reason to call it a scumtell was stupid, therefore it's a nulltell."

Then prove how it is a towntell.

Whether or not you think it's a towntell, that's it. That's the reason Snake found CS town. You rejecting that reason is not going to change the answer. The answer to the question of "why did Snake find CS town?" is that CS was attempting to push the game past random voting, and it will always be that CS was attempting to push the game past random voting, no matter how many times you repeat the question. No matter how many times you repeat the question, that will be the answer. That is the answer. That's the only answer you'll get. That's it. That's the reason. The reason that Snake found CS town is that. That will be the answer to your question, no matter how many times you repeat it. No matter how many times you repeat it, the answer will be that.

OK, let's say you're right. Then answer me this:

Why did Snake Eyes know that CS was trying to get out of RVS by voting me, but he didn't know I was trying to get out of RVS by voting CS?

[Snake Eyes]

So, uh, same old going on here I see. Umbrage's case on me is still dumb as hell, DarthYoshi is still scum and just about everyone in the game is catching up.

Nothing to say except iamausername's #381 is a good summary on DarthYoshi everyone should take a look at.

P.S. If anyone's wondering why I'm not answering any of Umbrage's questions, it's because they seem like the same old misrepresentions or misleading questions that I've already answered one way or another.

[Umbrage]

So, uh, same old going on here I see. Umbrage's case on me is still dumb as hell, DarthYoshi is still scum and just about everyone in the game is catching up.

Nothing to say except iamausername's #381 is a good summary on DarthYoshi everyone should take a look at.

P.S. If anyone's wondering why I'm not answering any of Umbrage's questions, it's because they seem like the same old misrepresentions or misleading questions that I've already answered one way or another.

'K, well if you don't say anything new, I'm not changing my opinion of you.

[Snake Eyes]

'K, well if you don't say anything new, I'm not changing my opinion of you.

Don't really care about your opinion of me.

I will say something new as soon as I have something relevant to say, which is, when people start posting again and comment on DarthYoshi. This includes you btw.

[DarthYoshi]

I don't have a lot of time atm, am currently procrastinating on a paper due tomorrow, but I have a couple quick things to say in response to Iam's ISO. Not going to respond to all of it, but a few things need mentioning--

Also, regarding his Krazy vote: "it would have been scummy to leave my vote on a player who was now being pro-town." Why would a town player be thinking about their own actions in terms of whether or not they are scummy? There's no reason for it. This is not a thing that a town player would say.

It is something someone who is in an anti-town faction would do, because it is bad for town. So yeah, it would be scummy. That doesn't mean I was doing it for appearance's sake.

DarthYoshi responds to my charge that he is not scumhunting by whining that he can't because all his time has been taken up arguing with Vordark.

This is just offensive.

Oh, woe is DarthYoshi, he still can't do any scumhunting, because now he has to defend himself against Snake Eyes too.

This too. Stop.

because it's not in his interest to point out when townies are town. Because he wants to lynch townies. Because he's scum.

(As an aside, I was hesitant about getting a read on Regfan before he voted, but his entry so far looks pretty townish.)

Finally,

FoS: Quaraoth.

You've done a lot of promising content for us during D1 rather than actually delivering said content. No vote out is likewise suspicious. I like where my vote is, but I'm growing more suspicious of you.

Will post my thoughts on Abelcain after I'm done with my paper.

[DarthYoshi]

Meant to add on this:

when I voted DY it was just voting for one of the 4 people that hadn't given me any town inclinations

Iamusername, what say you to this tidbit?

[Quaroath]

I feel like this game is stalling some whilst this Regfan/Iam/Umbrage triangle keeps jabbering. (As an aside, I was hesitant about getting a read on Regfan before he voted, but his entry so far looks pretty townish.) 1 week to deadline, folks.

@Krazy: Any particular reason why your vote remains on ConSpiracy? It seems like a somewhat outdated vote from my perspective.

@Abelcain and Quaraoth: Please put some votes out, like, now.

@Xtoxm: You’ve picked up your prod, some content would be nice.

Will be re-reading Abelcain in light of Regfan’s scumread on him. If I have time to do a full ISO, I will.

vote Xtomx

Top suspect right now. Never got a comfortable feeling from him. A brief summary from my end of his posts:

I think Ythan might be scum because he was complacent. when he and krazy were blowing the thread up.
Oh wait, Yhtan wasn't complacent
Oh, Darth Yoshi Wagon, I want a ride!
I now feel DY is scum, though I already voted him, and the reasons are here and here. (Points to Abelcain/DY argument). But still.. I'm not going o really get involved. (wheels that wagon without pushing it)
Comment on Regfans game molasses inducing massclim discussion. Pretty much with the majority on mass claim = unwelcome at the least, and likely bad.
Posted 2 days ago to say ooh i haven't posted in 4 days. Darn, seemed like yesterday.... and __________
still no other post?


@activity, My wife is currently hospitalized, she had a lung partially collapse Tuesday night. I'm going to be more involved once that situation resolves. She comes home tomorrow, and that'll help, a lot.

[iamausername]

P.S. If anyone's wondering why I'm not answering any of Umbrage's questions

I'm mostly wondering why I'm bothering.

when I voted DY it was just voting for one of the 4 people that hadn't given me any town inclinations

Iamusername, what say you to this tidbit?

Clearly Xtoxm is being incredibly lazy, and is most likely going to end up being replaced soon, but at least his vote's in the right place. I don't think he's scum.

Just by the by, can anyone remember the last time Ythan said anything that made any kind of impact on this game?

[iamausername]

Xtoxm (5) - DarthYoshi, ConSpiracy, Regfan, Abelcain, Quaroath
DarthYoshi (4) - iamausername, Vordark, Xtoxm, Snake Eyes
Umbrage (1) - Ythan
Snake Eyes (1) - Umbrage
Not Voting (1) - Krazy

I believe the current vote count looks like this.

Ythan, Umbrage, Krazy, we've got under a week until deadline. Unless someone comes up with a compelling new case somewhere, we're not going to get a lynch besides Xtoxm or DarthYoshi. We need to allow some wiggle room in case of claims. You should probably pick a side soon.

[Regfan]

@Abel, I'll point out the posts I'm talking about later today.

@Quaroath, sorry to hear that I wish you both the best of luck with the recovery.

@Iamusername, I was finding myself thinking the same thing in regards to Ythan.

Finally got enough time to devote to reading this case, there's no point me responding to the posts you claim to be null-tells and irrelevant posts so I'll leave those ones out.

Post #47: I read this as a null-tell to be honest, it's not the best attempt at scum-hunting however the questions are all understandable. N

Post #51: I've stated ealier I believe, that 'hunting for scumpairs is junk sicence' is illogical because you can still undesrstand interactions and see patterns that lead people to be less likely alligned with others. Though I don't see the implication he makes of a CS/Snake team that you see to be saying, I read this post as a minor scum-tell if that. N Leaning on S1.

Post #120: I don't see how an over-explanation is a scum-tell however I strongly dislike the vote on Krazy without any attempt to attain reads elsewhere (He didn't even have a scum-read on Krazy). S2

Post #186: I understand what you mean here, he's essentially attempting to make as few enimies as possible via not attacking anyone specifically, it's highly similar to fencesitting. S1

Post #216: This post includes a few contradictions, the most obvious being 'You're clearing reading the thread but saying very little'. At the same time I don't find his defence scummy at all there, just the lack of content in relation to other players. S1

Post #258: This entire post screams null-tell to me. N

Post #273: Long post involving answerigng others attacks at him, however I find it odd he brings up Vordark without stating an opinion or case against him here. S1

Post #285: Disagree with you strongly here, it seems his explanation in this post is. Xtoxm is contributing nothing, and just continued to I find this scummy and anti-town thus vote worthy. N

Post #290: As for this post, I'm not sure what you mean by 'confirmation bias' you'll need to explain that to me, thanks in advance. ?

Post #297: The 'I have a finite amount of time, 'I've been pressing my argumetns against Xotxm' doesn't sit well with me at all. The entire argument at this point is Xotxm's general lack of contribution. Considering the attacks put forward against him, I would have thought he'd have been ISO'ing Vordark to state his read on him at this ponit. S1

Post #333: The 'I've been beating the Xtoxm-is-scum drum for quite a while now' seems like an attempt to gain clearance of Xotxm flips mafia. As for the rest of the post, it contributes nothing nor does it hurt at all. It seems to be a post for the a sake of posting. S1

Post #355: I can agree with some of what you've said here, he is indeed fencesitting on his FoS's again though I don't find it to be as strong as scum-tell as you do.

Tldr: I can understand what you mean by the lack of real contribution throughout the game from him, his posts have been plentiful however he has barely stated his FoS apart from Xotxm and in neither case has he stated his reasoning behind it nor his townreads. I can seen where you're coming from with you case, however I still feel more comfortable with a Xotxm lynch, with that said I think Xotxm+Yoshi scum-tell is highly likely.

@Everyone, we only have 5 days till the lynch and we need to be able to attain a claim before the lynch progresses as well as allow time for a counter-claim if there is one.

[Xtoxm]

Well i'm just a vanilla, so full speed ahead.

[Xtoxm]

If anyone gets a guilty tonight, you should out it first thing tomorrow - One confirmed mafia is worth your role.

[Umbrage]

13 - From iamusername. Something about this vote bugs me. RVS of someone with a vote already on them seems strange.

RANDOM voting stage. If you only vote people who don't have a vote on them, it's not random, is it?

Not actively moving to get us out of RVS might not be a scum tell, but people doing so are more pro-town.

The question "why the need to exit us out of RVS" doesn't vibe as town at all to me. The sooner we're out of RVS and into discussion and debate, the better. Anything that moves us along in that regard is better and I can't think why someone town would disagree.

Here we go again. Why is it more pro-town to try and exit RVS quickly?

The "Hunting for scumpairs before there have been any flips is junk science" comment is strange as well. SE is talking about what happens "should Umbrage flip scum". It is also natural, and necessary, to look for relationships between the players as early as possible.

Noting relationships is different from hunting scumpairs. This is a really bad post. It appears to be deliberate misrepresentation.

Except that SE never said that CS was town. He said "I'm leaning slightly town on Conspiracy", which is a completely different statement.

Quibbling semantics. Defending SE.

This is yet more criticism based solely on what I've posted and who I've chosen to post about.

...

What are we supposed to criticize?

The phrase "singled me out" generally rubs me the wrong way. That choice of words implied victimization. Subtle words choices like this tend to jump out at me.

My sister flips out if she hears someone say 'perturbed'. Certain words mean certain things to us, but attributing those to my arguments is just bad play.

[Umbrage]

'K, well if you don't say anything new, I'm not changing my opinion of you.

Don't really care about your opinion of me.

I will say something new as soon as I have something relevant to say, which is, when people start posting again and comment on DarthYoshi. This includes you btw.

In other words, you're going to ignore whatever it is we're discussing until your bandwagon gains some momentum?

Why are you still alive?

[ConSpiracy]

WILD ACCUSATIONS BECAUSE I AM TUNNELING!

Lol

@ConSpiracy: In 1-2 sentences each, what are your reads on Umbrage and Snake Eyes?

Umbrage: Read back
Snake Eyes: meh, Umbrage's case on him sucks. But he didn't do anything townish either. Null.

In addition to all the above, the fact is that I have not seen one single towntell anywhere amongst his posts. Not even a sentence anywhere amongst the gigantic quote war with Vordark that makes me think "wait, I can't see scum saying that". Not one. I am just about the most confident I have ever been about a D1 vote here.

Tunneler number two.

Krazy, come here pal! Join the XXX wagon!
Vordark, we have a a reservation for you for your own place in the wagon! With a hot tub and a minibar!