A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Magua]

@Andrius:

You're entirely certain that Nexus' claim isn't fake?

Not real enthused about the wedding mechanic, or what's going to happen therein. I have to agree with Benmage's vote that right now we just seem to be killing time until it happens because some people want to claim to their quicktopic instead of the thread at large for reasons that I don't really comprehend, and then, I'm going to go out on a limb here, Raivann will be lynched.

I'm seriously contemplating lynching DGB because of this:

So, hypothetically: If we lynched you, and you came up town, we'd have two mod-confirmed town (popsofctown and Benmage), yes? This is what you're saying?

That, my friend, is a fact.

That's a combination of my annoyance at the playstyle, the lack of a townread on DGB, and a willingness to call the bluff if it's all a fake claim to begin with. It's tempered by diddin's buddying to DGB D1. In the meantime, I'll go with my second scum read, because I approve of the Nexus-rb's-Zdenek plan:

UNVOTE: Nexus
VOTE: Andrius

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm seriously contemplating lynching DGB because of this:

So, hypothetically: If we lynched you, and you came up town, we'd have two mod-confirmed town (popsofctown and Benmage), yes? This is what you're saying?

That, my friend, is a fact.

That's a combination of my annoyance at the playstyle, the lack of a townread on DGB, and a willingness to call the bluff if it's all a fake claim to begin with. It's tempered by diddin's buddying to DGB D1. In the meantime, I'll go with my second scum read, because I approve of the Nexus-rb's-Zdenek plan:

UNVOTE: Nexus
VOTE: Andrius

So let's recap.

You're considering lynching me despite the fact that my role PM states that Benmage is town.
You're considering lynching me despite the fact that I received a hypocop clear of DTM/pops.
You're considering lynching me despite the fact that I said that my death would confirm the two statements above to be true.

I don't like your use of "

willingness to call the bluff if it's all a fake claim to begin with

" because you have to consider that I'm town, and not a PR, in which case you can't expect me to say anything different. It's more than a little disingenuous.

[Benmage]

Btw dgb, my comment on setael was a joke.

[DrippingGoofball]

Btw dgb, my comment on setael was a joke.

Oh

Then Setael is scum.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 3.16

Zdenek (5) Bunnylover, DrippingGoofball, Andrius, Thor665, popsofctown
Nexus (1) Raivann,
Setael (1) Danakillsu

Raivann (7) Kast, Setael, Hasdgfas, Twilight Sparkle, Shadow1psc, Zdenek, LynchMePls

Shadow1psc (1) Locke Lamora
Andrius (1) Magua

Not voting (2) Nexus, Benmage

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Time to get social aka quicktopic time deadline is here
Deadline for lynches is here

*Setael is V/la untill Monday.
*No one due a prod.
* Vc mistakes? Point them out.

[Twilight Sparkle]

TS, regarding the first two quotes. In the first you say that MoI's "suspicions have a logical townie-like progression," and that his reasoning for his suspicion "reads as genuine." Then in the second post you say that you have reservations about him "the size of a small continent" and that each of his posts "raises yet another alarm bell." If a player about whom I felt like that was suspicious of me, I would not be alright with that player's vote or think that their suspicion reads as genuine, and I don't really see how it is possible. Their suspicion itself would be raising alarm bells. Frankly, the fact that you are asking me about this seems scummy because it seems so clear to me that I feel you are feigning incomprehension.

Okay... Well in your original post you credited MoI with the second quote, not TS and seeing I wasn't the hydra head that wrote that it didn't initially register. After doing a little research you have me in the first TS quote, then Mina when she was prepping for the case on you.

I'll just say that reads change, especially in a hydra. MoI was one of the players that we all found hard to reach an agreement. I'll also say I disagree with you that we were never a viable lynch yesterday, but there is little point arguing in circles about that.

Can someone in the TS hydra explain "white-knight-ing"?

Defending basically. Riding in on a white

horse

pony to sweep the poor attacked player away from all the meanies who would besmirch their “good” name.

~Sotty

[Zdenek]

Zdenek's last series of votes can be translated as such:
"Andy is town and gaining popularity so I need to unvote, and vote the easy wagon."

What is the point in voting for someone who's lynch Benmage will govern?

I really don't understand why the possibility for me to guess who Chesskid was claiming to be day one is such a big deal.

Because its something you would have done as town.

So I go to wiki for the books look up past Hands of the King, and I determine that Chesskid is either claiming to be Tyrion or Harys Swyft, to me they both seem like they could be Lannister aligned, and what do I do with this information?

I agree with DGB that Setael is scummy for reasons in addition to Mikujin's lack of activity and his vote on DGB, which reads like he's appeasing the town.

I don't see the suspicion on Twilight. I disagree with what MoI said about the ISO posts not containing scumhunting. I can see the V/LA of 2 of the heads being the reason for the low activity D1 (especially if they're wanting to all weigh in before posting - I for one would find it annoying if they were constantly coming in and contradicting themselves because they didn't all agree with what was posted in the first place.)

Here Setael says that she doesn't understand the case on Twilight, but goes on to excuse Twilight for their low activity, which actually suggests that she did understand the suspicion on Twilight and chose to defend them.

Where's nexus? He's plenty active in the game he's nodding that I'm in.

I really hate these sorts of attacks; they are lazy and draw attention to a player for something that isn't really scummy.

I haven't changed my mind. He's still my #1 scum read, but something I read in his post made me decide to put him in my pocket until tomorrow.

Maybe you already answered it, but what was the thing in his post that made you want to delay his lynch?

LMP, are you claiming SK?

A pointless rhetorical question.

Additionally, I feel that her attack on Bunnylover is poorly reasoned. A great deal of it is based on Bunnylover "playing the VI card" and while I agree that is true, I do not feel that the case actually represents an attempt to determine what Bunnylover's motivations have been, but is just an attempt to exaggerate certain characteristics of Bunnylover's that could be interpreted as scummy.

[Magua]

So let's recap.

You're considering lynching me

despite

the fact that my role PM states that Benmage is town.
You're considering lynching me

despite

the fact that I received a hypocop clear of DTM/pops.
You're considering lynching me

despite

the fact that I said that my death would confirm the two statements above to be true.

I don't like your use of "

willingness to call the bluff if it's all a fake claim to begin with

" because you have to consider that I'm town, and not a PR, in which case you can't expect me to say anything different. It's more than a little disingenuous.

Replace

despite

with

because of

and you have it exactly right. If you're lying, you're lying, if you're telling the truth, then that means we can lynch an unclear to gain two clears. Both possibilities are very attractive reasons for me.

[Eddard Stark]

Bunnylover has been prodded

[Andrius]

MAGUA
He isn't a Roleblocker. You're correct that he COULD be a Goon with a RB fakeclaim.
Raivann, can you confirm you were roleblocked N1 and N2?
But barring the Goon/RBfakeclaim then he's not Stark.

I'd want to claim in-thread because
1) we can figure out how the claim gets disseminated among the people; if I'm at table with A, B, C, D, and F and H find out I'm some Mason extrordinaire then we can easily add 1+1.

Magua, DGB is town. I'd vouch for a couple reads with my (slot's) life and DGB and Benmage are two of them.

DGB
Setael IS scum regardless of Benmage's lie.

ZDENEK
Its not that you did its HOW you did it.
Then you rule out dead players and go "so ABC is dead so that rules out stuff". So you just operate under the impression that he could be either one.

[Bunnylover]

I was prodded.
Reading the thread, just haven't seen nothing that I can give my opinion on that would be worthwhile.
Raivann claim is a VT claim. Just like any other game, VT claims are the easiest claim for scum to make.
Zdenek been bulletproof can be the characteristic of an SK or GF.
Wary of DGB since I would expect her to be a more pro-townie force then what she shown.

Like Andrius post.

That pretty much it .

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: Setael

[Andrius]

DGB, we've got Setael, Thor, Raivann, and Zdenek.
Kill preference order please.

[DrippingGoofball]

Setael and Thor as priorities, the other two will wait for their turn at the guillotine.

[danakillsu]

Setael and Thor as priorities, the other two will wait for their turn at the guillotine.

THANK YOU.
It took forever for anyone to listen to me.

[popsofctown]

imo, best to lynch DGB before a night that it is inconvenient for scum to NK her clears. like right after a pr claim

[DrippingGoofball]

imo, best to lynch DGB before a night that it is inconvenient for scum to NK her clears. like right after a pr claim

Least-thought-of plan of the year.

[Locke Lamora]

Agree that Zdenek can wait for later.

TS is obviously keen to keep me on their suspect list to bring up later for some reason, one which I have yet to fathom out. Any reason for that one, TS?

A remarkably scummy post following:

@Kast - I hate that Raivann keeps getting a free pass, but if you're claiming you've got Zdenek dead to rights, and TS (who looks even more town now) has built their solid case around him, I'm pretty inclined to believe that is a great direction to take. If it takes pressure to get it out of him, I'll be glad to help;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Raivann is going to lay low some more and not contribute I'm sure. I'm a little more wary of LMP based on the number of kills remaining consistent; We also have not seen the revelation of a third faction yet, something I find interesting considering 3 stark flips. I maintain LMP could have easily claimed vig to cover his tracks shooting Chess, and claimed jailed (why would this even be pertinent if you were one shot anyway/would you be notified if you were jailed...?) and have someone else send the NK (as scum). Could have been jailed as SK, the only reason to have mentioned being the target of the now dead jailer was if he had attempted to shoot someone and it got stopped (but claimed out of shots to us). SK seems like the more unlikely choice.

Anyway, on the topic of Zdenek, name claiming, then saying "I'm not gonna claim my power, it's anti-town" is ass, and anti-town in itself. If we hit discussion limit deadline, you get nkilled, and you were at a table with scum, that would destroy anything you worked for. If someone has evidence v. you (and a staggeringly huge case), you best come forward, with your information, and be believable.

p-edit: well then. That's... weird.

First off, this vote looks like a blatant attempt to seize an opportunity for an easy lynch on someone he knows isn't scum; he doesn't even wait to see how Kast's result plays out, he just drops his top suspect and votes for Zdenek whilst acting like it's a real wrench to not lynch Raivann. He doesn't even commit to calling Zdenek scum, he puts the vote down to pressuring more info out of him (which he hasn't removed since Zdenek claimed more info).

*

Then he continues his crusade to push LMP-scum based on the CK kill. If he genuinely didn't believe that LMP was vig then he'd be trying to lynch LMP first, not Raivann. Instead he's just trying to cast doubt on LMP's claim at every available opportunity but parking his vote on easier wagons. His reaction to Zdenek's more detailed claim is notable for its lack of thrust; he's spending his time arguing what the pro-town approach would be, but he's not calling Zdenek obv-scum or even stating whether he actually thinks Zdenek is scum or town that played the role badly.

** Then we get this gem:

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was

also town

, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

"Also town"?! So Shadow thinks Zdenek is town

***...but he still has his vote parked there. Then there's the fact that Shadow really shouldnt be answering this for Zdenek; it's more like 'hey, I can think of a pro-town reason for that, give me townpoints'! It completely contradicts his original stated motive of voting Zdenek to pressure more info out of him. In fact, everything Shadow's said to or about Zdenek since he claimed indicates he doesn't really think he's scum.

Alright, lets break this down LL:

*

It was a blatant attempt to press information out of someone who said "I'm not gonna claim, its anti-town", when Kast claimed damning information on him. I've expressed several times why I keep having to move off Raivann (who I sat on d2, despite benmage, and will be switching back to in a sec).

**

I didn't realize discussion concerning LMP was out of the question. I don't have a definitive position on him, a one-shot vig claim is something that will sort itself out if he's scum. I'm of the belief Zdenek played the role badly, yes, which brings us to...

***

This is either bad reading comprehension or misrepresentation at its finest; the 'also' qualifier is in no way an indication of my read on Zdenek. That was myself pointing out to TP that Zdenek shouldn't have been trying to lynch Chess, as it should have been inferred he was tyrion, who as it also turns out, was town. So that's not also as in, 'too', lets try this LL:

TS: You should have been trying to lynch CK
Shadow: He was also town, ya know.

Implying, he certainly could have been town and it's easy to infer Tyrion is Lannister aligned, and no one should have been pushing that lynch.

Finally, yes,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

The wagon actually has steam, I've made my repeated case on this and why he needs to go.

To use your star system:

*Right, but my point was that after he claimed his information, you didn't do anything. You left your vote sitting there waiting to see what would happen. If a couple more people had voted for Zdenek after not buying the claim, I get the impression you wouldn't have moved. Now you have, but it's quite apparent now that Zdenek isn't the preferred lynch.

**Yes, LMP's claim will sort itself out, so I don't see the need for the speculation. It's not a discussion, you're just saying 'hey, you know that guy who claimed vig, he could be scum!' What discussion is there to be had? It's just casting unnecessary doubt about a claim that will, as you say, sort itself out if he's scum. Hence it's simply casting doubt on LMP for the sake of spreading uncertainty, which is scummy.

***Ok, I think I can see how your phrasing means what you say it means there, so I'll concede that. You didn't answer the point about why you're answering the question for him. Don't say 'it was an obvious answer', either. Just because it's an obvious answer to you doesn't mean he's going to give the same one, and if he'd answered something different it might have displayed a non-town thought process. For you to answer the question for him displays a wanting-to-appear-town thought process.

[popsofctown]

do you mean thought out, or thought of, like, few people think-of this.

I meant best as in optimal, not sure how much i favor lynching you at all.

[LimMePls]

Sorry everyone, but I need V/LA for the next day, maybe 2. Pretty swamped. I'll post ASAP.

[hasdgfas]

imo, best to lynch DGB before a night that it is inconvenient for scum to NK her clears. like right after a pr claim

*cackles*

[Magua]

Setael lynch is waaaay more preferable for me than a Raivann lynch.

Other than that, just killing the nine hours or so until the wedding.

[Thor665]

I'd rather just lynch Zdenek because if he's not the SK the SK controls whether or not Zdeneck is lynched next and we are potentially throwing away a town RB that probably could have better uses.

[Setael]

I agree with DGB that Setael is scummy for reasons in addition to Mikujin's lack of activity

and his vote on DGB, which reads like he's appeasing the town.

DGB hasn't said anything like this. The only reason she's given for suspecting my slot is "wagon analysis" (of one of Miku's votes). If you're going to hide behind someone else's suspicions, at least get your facts straight.

I don't see the suspicion on Twilight. I disagree with what MoI said about the ISO posts not containing scumhunting. I can see the V/LA of 2 of the heads being the reason for the low activity D1 (especially if they're wanting to all weigh in before posting - I for one would find it annoying if they were constantly coming in and contradicting themselves because they didn't all agree with what was posted in the first place.)

Here Setael says that she doesn't understand the case on Twilight, but goes on to excuse Twilight for their low activity, which actually suggests that she did understand the suspicion on Twilight and chose to defend them.

I never said I didn't "understand" the case on Twilight. "I don't see the suspicion on Twilight" means it's baseless. I then explained that it was baseless because there was a perfectly good reason for the low activity D1. You're really stretching to try to find reasons to think I'm scummy.

Where's nexus? He's plenty active in the game he's modding that I'm in.

I really hate these sorts of attacks; they are lazy and draw attention to a player for something that isn't really scummy.

A) If he was lurking and posting elsewhere but not here, which is what I thought when I posted this, how would that not be scummy?
B) This has already been brought up and I have already responded. Do you have a problem with my explanation?

@Andrius - Can you answer B as well because this is the only reason I saw you bring up for listing me as scummier than a leprechaun. (Let me know if I missed something).

I haven't changed my mind. He's still my #1 scum read, but something I read in his post made me decide to put him in my pocket until tomorrow.

Maybe you already answered it, but what was the thing in his post that made you want to delay his lynch?

He soft claimed PR.

LMP, are you claiming SK?

A pointless rhetorical question.

It wasn't rhetorical. I couldn't see any reason a town vig would kill chesskid D1. There was actually a lot of discussion about this, so how could you see it as rhetorical?

Additionally, I feel that her attack on Bunnylover is poorly reasoned. A great deal of it is based on Bunnylover "playing the VI card" and while I agree that is true, I do not feel that the case actually represents an attempt to determine what Bunnylover's motivations have been, but is just an attempt to exaggerate certain characteristics of Bunnylover's that could be interpreted as scummy.

Hang on. You're saying you think BL is playing the VI card... does that mean you think all the times she calls herself stupid is intentional to try to avoid responsibility for her actions?

So basically you are saying you agree with the point I originally made, and yet you are making no attempt to determine BL's motivations. How is that different from what you are accusing me of?

Setael lynch is waaaay more preferable for me than a Raivann lynch.

I'd love to hear what so fully converted you to my lynch. I find this really suspect since no one has given anything but crap arguments.

Shifting attention to me just seems like a distraction from Raivann. Of those who are listing me as scum with weak/contrived reasons {Raivann, dana, Andrius, zedenek, DGB, magua} at least one is scum (I'm looking at Raivann) and one is probably SK (hi, Zed!).

[Magua]

I'd love to hear what so fully converted you to my lynch. I find this really suspect since no one has given anything but crap arguments.

Shifting attention to me just seems like a distraction from Raivann. Of those who are listing me as scum with weak/contrived reasons {Raivann, dana, Andrius, zedenek, DGB, magua} at least one is scum (I'm looking at Raivann) and one is probably SK (hi, Zed!).

Nothing has "converted" me to your lynch. I have an anti-Stark read on Raivann, and a nullread on you. If the choice is between lynching Raivann and you, I will lynch you.

I'd rather just lynch Zdenek because if he's not the SK the SK controls whether or not Zdeneck is lynched next and we are potentially throwing away a town RB that probably could have better uses.

Disagree.

If Zdenek is the SK, he gets roleblocked. No kills.
If Zdenek is *not* the SK, the SK must then either kill, which will clear Zdenek of being the SK, or not kill.