Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (over)

[Erratus Apathos]

Now on to my normal intro. I'd like to get a bit of information about everyone for my personal reference.
1) What is your timezone? This is helpful to know when we're waiting for a player to post, just in case they live overseas. This is particularly important as every hour is going to count in a 1 week deadline.
2) What is your mafia experience here and elsewhere? It is good to know who are first timers and who are veterans. Join date doesn't tell the whole story with alts and hiatuses.
3) How frequently can we be expecting you to post? Keep in mind the shorter deadlines.

1) The only zone I'm in is the "no scum here, attack someone else!" zone.
2) I have no mafia experience whatsoever. Anything I do which appears scummy is actually a newbie mistake and should be overlooked.
3) I intend to post as close to once per 48 hours as I can get without getting prodded. Most of the posts I do make will just be blatant prod dodges.

For future reference, I'm noting AMP's late RVS vote because already 25 posts and on the first page, Iceninja's questions seem to have killed RVS. I'm not pointing fingers here yet, but it looks out of place. However, I do understand the temptation for a random vote, but I feel the RVS has been born and has died here on the first page.

^NERVOUS SCUM
VOTE: Peabody

[Lucresia]

Hello All,

1) Eastern. -4 GMT right now. I work an early 2nd shift though, so I'll probably post mostly around mid day evening on lunch or at night after work.
2) On Mafiascum I modded and played some games back in 2005-2007 and also modded and played mafia games in 2002-2007 on the Grey labyrinth. I took a few year Hiatus and just came back this month.
3) Varies from a little to a lot no matter what role I play. Depends on how much I have to say and how much time I have in the day. However, you should at least have a post daily from me.

On a more important note, this information in my opinion is not helping us find scum. No one is going to take my time zone and post schedule and by able to make an intelligent determination whether I am scum or town. Also, I think detailed information is good because it allows for people to slip up more on their roles. However, walls of text for sake of walls of text is trying too hard and looks scummy. Please only post "walls of text" if you actually feel you have something worth pointing out.

I am a fan of random voting just because it provokes activity which leads to questions which finally leads us into a direction. Very happy we didn't lose a cop or doctor before day 1.

Vote: LynchKing

The name makes me feel he must through the hammer on a lot of lynches

[Pine]

For future reference, I'm noting AMP's late RVS vote because already 25 posts and on the first page, Iceninja's questions seem to have killed RVS. I'm not pointing fingers here yet, but it looks out of place. However, I do understand the temptation for a random vote, but I feel the RVS has been born and has died here on the first page.

^NERVOUS SCUM
VOTE: Peabody

Edited out the bold —Fenhl

I noticed this too. Already had a quick post typed up when I noticed we were already on page 2. I've gotta stop relying on the "Go to first unread post" button. I miss new pages all the time.

VOTE: Peabody

[RangeroftheNorth]

We now know scum killed Kazlam. Great. Analyze that and lead us to victory, Mr. Night Zero.

(Night 0 in a 13 player game is kind of counterproductive, considering the switch to 13 players was to give town an extra mislynch that we now don't get.)

Well, as ICEninja already pointed out, there was only one kill last night. Not inherently meaningful, but certainly informative. Pro-town players also got to make choices last night, and its possible that they have information that could be helpful later. I know the amount of information is small, but any information makes it more likely that the first lynch will be based on something, rather than completely random.

As to your second point, as far as I can tell, Night 0 with 13 players still gives us an extra mislynch over Night 0 with 12 players.

[DeathRowKitty]

Peabody vote <<< Lucresia vote

Unvote: RotN

Vote: Lucresia

@Peabody
I was in Mini 259 with you apparently (you replaced out though). I only ever played 2 newbie games (both as IC), so I doubt we met in one of those.

Pre-post Edit: The chances of us having something to lynch on from night 0 without a PR outing itself is very small and we shouldn't have PRs outing themselves day 1. For the 13 player thing, I meant as compared to 13 players without a night 0, but we actually don't have an extra mislynch over 12 players with a night 0 (lylo occurs on odd numbers, so you gain an extra mislynch on odd numbers (assuming day start).

[Fenhl]

Vote Count 1.1

lynchking	1	Lucresia
Lucresia	1	DeathRowKitty
Erratus Apathos	1	AMP
Peabody	3	RangeroftheNorth	Erratus Apathos	Pine
Pine	1	Romanus

Spoiler: more info

Not voting: lynchking, ICEninja, Trendall, Peabody, Valern
With 12 living players, a majority consists of 7 votes.
The current deadline is Apr 8 17:30.

[ICEninja]

If everyone may take notice, on the post where I ask my questions, I clearly state that this information is for my own purposes, and I give no indication that they have anything to do with determining anyone's alignment. That will come soon. For now, I just like to know if people are going to be posting at weird hours or are total newbies. The third question is more of a theoretical one that I hope to someday use to catch lurking scum on. It hasn't happened yet, but who knows. I ask these questions every game, and they don't harm anyone to answer them.

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.

Vote Erratus Apathos

.

As for the extra mislynch, we get one if a doc/jailkeeper/roleblocker prevents a kill, and gives any vig we have the option to shoot without costing us a mislynch. I'm not against the 12 players at day 1 for these reasons.

[Romanus]

Unvote

As that was RVS

Vote: Pine

For jumping on that wagon with the greatest of ease.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Be useful and vote Lucresia.

Pre-post Edit: ninja'd by Romanus; this was supposed to be directed at ICEninja

[Peabody]

Evidently, I have been proven wrong concerning the RVS as there are people now voting.

@DRK

- Oh, yeah... I guess it was a mini game, and I didn't realize I replaced out of that game. My memory can be kind of fuzzy at times. Also, why do you believe Lucresia is the most useful vote at this time? I didn't quite understand your logic behind that vote.

@ICEninja

Is your vote on Erratus serious or a joke?

[Trendall]

V/LA for the next 36 hours or something. Sorry about that.

Haven't read through the thread yet, I need to sleep right now. Don't replace me. I got a PROD half an hour after the game started, which I don't know what to make of, seeing as I don't recall there being a rule whereby we get prodded after every half an hour of inactivity, but whatever. I will be here soon, and I will be helpful.

[ICEninja]

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Sarcasm doesn't make my point invalid. He answered my questions before without stupid responses before, very different then his recent answers. What could have changed since then? His role, possibly.

Be useful and vote Lucresia.

You're telling me to vote someone whom you haven't even made a case against. Why should I vote him?

Is your vote on Erratus serious or a joke?

It is as serious a vote as I can think of making with the information we currently possess.

[DeathRowKitty]

You know what else changed? The game environment.

Why I voted Lucresia:

Hello All,

1) Eastern. -4 GMT right now. I work an early 2nd shift though, so I'll probably post mostly around mid day evening on lunch or at night after work.
2) On Mafiascum I modded and played some games back in 2005-2007 and also modded and played mafia games in 2002-2007 on the Grey labyrinth. I took a few year Hiatus and just came back this month.
3) Varies from a little to a lot no matter what role I play. Depends on how much I have to say and how much time I have in the day. However, you should at least have a post daily from me.

On a more important note, this information in my opinion is not helping us find scum. No one is going to take my time zone and post schedule and by able to make an intelligent determination whether I am scum or town. Also, I think detailed information is good because it allows for people to slip up more on their roles. However, walls of text for sake of walls of text is trying too hard and looks scummy. Please only post "walls of text" if you actually feel you have something worth pointing out.

I am a fan of random voting just because it provokes activity which leads to questions which finally leads us into a direction. Very happy we didn't lose a cop or doctor before day 1.

Vote: LynchKing

The name makes me feel he must through the hammer on a lot of lynches

Okay, whatever, I give up. From now on I might ignore anything in quotes. —Fenhl

In this post, we have the following:

1. Serious answers to your questions
2. a paragraph dedicated to saying the questions aren't useful (after answering them fully) and a statement about walls being scummy, followed by a statement that he likes the RVS
3. "Very happy we didn't lose a cop or doctor before day 1."
4. a random vote with a after it

So in his post, he answers your questions, then says those answers aren't useful. He repeats theory topics that have already been discussed (scum love to discuss theory) and posts his own theory statement unrelated to anything that's been discussed. Why? Well, first reason is because he's scum. Second is to justify random voting. For people calling Peabody out on being nervous scum, Lucresia's after his vote covers that for him.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, and I forgot to comment on the third thing in the list:

That's just the "congratulating the doctor" tell in a slightly different form. Instead of "doctor saved us!", it was "luck saved us!" Scummy in that regard, plus not something I would expect a town player to be thinking about.

[Erratus Apathos]

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.

Vote Erratus Apathos

.

Okay Columbo, what's my motive for lying then?

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Sarcasm doesn't make my point invalid. He answered my questions before without stupid responses before, very different then his recent answers. What could have changed since then? His role, possibly.

My ability to take that sort of shit seriously ran out. That's what changed.

I agree with DRK's 37.
UNVOTE: Peabody
VOTE: Lucresia

[Lucresia]

In her post* I am not a big one on "i'm a girl i'm a girl" or anything, but would rather not be called a him all game if that can be stopped at the beginning

I answered the questions from ICE because although it isn't useful in my opinion, I have nothing to hide or harm by answering it.

Concerning my random vote and wink face. It's a day 1 first vote, I voted random and had no basis. You may not agree with a random vote but it doesn't make me scummy. Also I don't think I get your logic or lack thereof concerning my comment of not losing an important information role on the dreaded night "0". A town player isn't allowed to be happy that main roles that help the town didn't get thrown out the window basically before the game really starts? Why would only a scum be concerned with this? Your quick reaction to vote me off a random vote and no serious allegations makes me curious what you are hiding that you need to shift focus on someone else who has only made their first post in the game.

[DeathRowKitty]

Bah. You think I would be more careful of gender, considering I constantly get called "she" (which hasn't been helped recently by the fact that I changed my gender to female for a week >.>).

You didn't address any of what I actually said. You said the questions were useless, but answered them anyway. Something to hide or not, what function did you expect that to serve?
I'm not arguing who you voted, but your over-justification of your vote and seeming nervousness.
And I never said town can't be happy a power role didn't die. I'm saying I would expect scum to be thinking about that at this stage, not town. Plus, the whole congratulating the doctor aspect of it.

[RangeroftheNorth]

The tell DRK is referring to is that its common for a player who congratulates the doctor for a successful save to be scum. Its an old tell, which makes it less valuable, as most players avoid doing it, simply because its considered a tell.

DRK seems to be extrapolating from there and defining a related tell, that I, at least, haven't heard before. He's claiming that you were congratulating luck on preventing an important kill.

I can see some logic in this tell. A scum's natural reaction would to be disappointed that they hadn't managed to kill someone in the case of the doctor, or that they hadn't killed someone important, in this case. To mask that reaction, they might go so far in the opposite direction as to express happiness that things had gone well for the town.

Now, just because its logical doesn't mean its accurate. I haven't seen it referenced before, but I haven't played in quite a while. I haven't noticed the behavior in scum myself, but I'd be interested in looking for it.

DRK's other argument also makes some sense. You both answer the questions, and mention that the questions aren't helpful or necessary. Here you seem to be going out of your way not to rub either group the wrong way. If you think the questions aren't necessary, why answer them? If you don't mind answering them, why point out that they're unnecessary? It seems like your trying to agree with everyone, which is another possible scum tell.

So, Lucresia, I can see why DRK is voting for you. Its not a particularly strong case, but its decent for this early on day one.

Unvote: Peabody
Vote: Lucresia

[Erratus Apathos]

Your quick reaction to vote me off a random vote and no serious allegations makes me curious what you are hiding that you need to shift focus on someone else who has only made their first post in the game.

OH GOD

I CAN'T VOTE LUCRESIA HARD ENOUGH

IF ANYONE IN THIS GAME IS A DAY-VOTE-HARDENER, PLEASE HARDEN MY VOTE RIGHT NOW SO I CAN VOTE LUCRESIA HARDER

1) DRK's allegations are clearly serious, as Lucresia is responding to them as serious allegations. So why the "no serious allegations" remark? It's one of those things scums love to do: to deny that there is any case on them at all. Town rarely does that.
2) The accusation that DRK is hiding something is ridiculous. DRK puts up the first case of the game, that means he's hiding something? Poor deflection here.
3) Lucresia specifies that she had only made her first post in the game. By doing that, she's suggesting that because she has only posted once, she is above suspicion. Again, this is unlikely to be town thinking.

FOUR MORE VOTES ON LUCRESIA SCUM PLEASE!

[RangeroftheNorth]

The last sentence of your post needs some clarification, Erratus.

Are you saying, "Four more votes on Lucresia, who is scum!"?

or

"Scum, please vote for Lucresia?"

Your sentence seems to me to mean the second thing, but I'm willing to wait for your clarification.

[Erratus Apathos]

"Four more votes on Lucresia, who is scum!"

That.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

[Pine]

The last sentence of your post needs some clarification, Erratus.

Are you saying, "Four more votes on Lucresia, who is scum!"?

or

"Scum, please vote for Lucresia?"

Your sentence seems to me to mean the second thing, but I'm willing to wait for your clarification.

This post was remarkably dumb. First meaning was obvious. Second meaning was stupid.

The Lucresia wagon looks good, but I'll keep mine on Peabody for now. Didn't get enough pressure.

[Valern]

Why was I prodded? -.-

A few thoughts before I get down to business:
-Conciseness is pro-town. I will skim walls, and will probably only post them if I'm making a PBPA case on someone in LYLO or something.
-Despite my join date I have a decent amount of experience.
-Gender neutral pronouns are the best. Failing that, I won't notice or care if you arbitrarily assign a gender to me.

I like DRK's case on Lucresia. I also like Romanus' vote on Pine (PEDIT: And I think I like it a little more every time Pine posts).

VOTE: Lucresia

D1 wagon go go.

[DeathRowKitty]

I like DRK's case on Lucresia. I also like Romanus' vote on Pine (PEDIT: And I think I like it a little more every time Pine posts).

VOTE: Lucresia

D1 wagon go go.

I endorse this product and/or service.