Open 289 - Hard Boiled - Game over.

[Umbrage]

I still suspect Abelcain knew xtoxm's alignment before he flipped. He said we were 'reducing our chances of hitting scum to 0', then he tacked on 'unless xtoxm is scum'. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but damn it, I don't see any other explanation, and I can't imagine why a townie would say that.

I need sleep. More tomorrow.

[Krazy]

Yes, Ythan. When there's four flips and you give no reaction to any of them, I wonder what's going on. You never voted anyone other than the most obvtown player yesterday nor did you engage anyone or scumhunt. Your behavior this game has been pretty radically different from my last game with you, and I'm wondering what the hell is going on. Just because you were town before does not mean you're town now, despite how many times you curse at me or call me tunneling. I'm not sure if you're my top candidate right now or not, but you're much higher after Q's flip than you were before.

[Ythan]

Yes, Ythan. When there's four flips and you give no reaction to any of them, I wonder what's going on.

What are you, new? Oh, right. I have discussed what is actually meaningful in the flips. Which, as in 90% of games (and an even higher percentage of normal games (and an even higher percentage of open games)) is almost nothing.

You never voted anyone other than the most obvtown player yesterday nor did you engage anyone or scumhunt.

Incorrect. If you want to actually support your statements you'll get more than one word, but judging by your play yesterday I won't be disappointed if you don't oblige.

Your behavior this game has been pretty radically different from my last game with you, and I'm wondering what the hell is going on.

That's because you're a horrible tunneler who is more interested in any play of mine than scummy play of all players.

Just because you were town before does not mean you're town now, despite how many times you curse at me or call me tunneling.

Way to argue against a point nobody made. Yes you're tunneling (I honestly thought you were improving yesterday), but this statement of yours has no relevance to anything anyone has said.

I'm not sure if you're my top candidate right now or not, but you're much higher after Q's flip than you were before.

Based on nothing, right?

[Ythan]

He said we were 'reducing our chances of hitting scum to 0', then he tacked on 'unless xtoxm is scum'.

Why are you characterizing a qualifier as something tacked on?

And Krazy, in case you aren't actually going to read my post, here's a tip for the newbie. There is no reason to "discuss the flips" unless you actually have something to say about them. To urge another player to do so without any topic of inquiry behind your prodding is just another way for you to show everyone how interested you are in me.

[Krazy]

Ythan, is Umbrage still your top candidate? If not, who is your new FoS? If you're going to QQ about me being a tunneler, how about you answer that? kthxbai.

[Ythan]

This is a 21 page thread and we just got almost all of our hard information less than 24 hours ago. Why are you so fucking terrible at mafia.

[Krazy]

There is no reason to "discuss the flips" unless you actually have something to say about them.

This is a 21 page thread and we just got almost all of our hard information less than 24 hours ago. Why are you so fucking terrible at mafia.

Interesting juxtaposition. Are you saying you have nothing to add about the flips in the first one, or are you saying there's nothing to be gained about the flips? Or are you saying I haven't said anything about the flips?

Also, why do you continue to be so defensive and so reactionary? You were posting, you were saying nothing about three flips (four counting Xtoxm), and I don't see why you wouldn't have some sort of reaction or first impression.

Actually, Ythan, you bore me. Your constant deflection, your bitching about literally every question I ask you, and the simple fact that you actually seemed to have a remarkably similar strategy yesterday to Quaroth makes you fairly suspect in my eyes.

-Quaroth pretty clearly saw Umbrage as an easy lynch today so he got on that wagon.
-Quaroth saw Umbrage as an easy lynch yesterday and he wanted to get on that wagon then too.
-You posted a few questions for Umbrage, which you didn't think he answered with satisfaction, so you stuck your vote on him and didn't move it for the whole day.

There's three scum in this game, Ythan. If you thought it was Umbrage yesterday, I never really got a sense of who you thought the rest of his team was. When there were two wagons on players other than Umbrage, you saw both of those wagons as more or less absurd. I actually, dare I say it, think you were tunneling Umbrage yesterday.

And before you bitch about me not being able to support that, I literally just reread your entire iso. Yesterday, you FoS'd Umbrage (who is now obvtown), who you kept your vote on the whole day, occasionally sniped at Xtoxm (who is now confirmed town), and had your bitchfit when I asked you to actually contribute anything other than bitching about my policy lynch vote on you. So please, continue bitching about me tunneling. In the mean time, you literally fit any scumteam, since you have not FoS'd anyone who is not dead or who is not obvtown (or FMPOV is me), and furthermore like Quaroth made a lot of "hi I'm sort of active lurking/prod avoiding" posts, and more or less just generally didn't scumhunt very much. So:

Vote Ythan.

Bitch about me tunneling you. Just do it.

[Ythan]

You're trash at this game, and I mean Mafia, not Open 289, and you have nothing to add but useless whiny noise. I have nothing more to say about you.

[Krazy]

^Not scumhunting, just scumplaining.

[Ythan]

You can criticize me for my lack of scumhunting within the span of time since the thread unlocked when you have done any since the thread started you pathetic tunneling child.

[Krazy]

Thanks Ythan. Going back to not responding to you again so as to not clutter the thread, since I've made my case for now.

[Ythan]

Pretending to make a case and then pretending you'll ignore (because anyone who reads the thread knows you're as full of shit saying you won't responding to me as you are when you do respond to me bazing) anything I say is kind of a shitty way to play Mafia. But do I look surprised. Can't you just replace out already.

[Ythan]

Now that this conversation is over, according to Krazy, I'll go ahead and provide a concise version for those people who dislike reading the back and fourths that come so often from his failure as a mafia player and success as a master tunneler.

The scene, daybreak.
Ythan "Good morning everyone!"
Everyone "Most of us haven't posted yet."
Krazy "Hey, first let me express my disappointment that you haven't broken obvious conventional wisdom and discussed flips beyond what is necessary. But enough of that, why haven't you posted an updated analysis yet. The game has been open for hours."
Ythan "What about everyone e-"
Krazy "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK"

[Krazy]

You know Ythan, I asked if you were rereading. You could have said "yes." Instead, you flipped your shit. Again.

I didn't say I would ignore you, I said I would stop responding if all you were going to do was scumplain. I explained that you were a top FoS for today anyway, and your constant deflection and overreaction has merely elevated you to the top spot for now.

To everyone else, I know you were doubtless exhausted from yesterday's blitz. But look at what happened as a result of that blitz: Quaroth spent half the early part of the day sniping at me about it, and meanwhile more-or-less used it as an excuse to completely ignore Ythan for the rest of the day. Ythan is, again, banally characterizing me as tunneling as a way to simply attack my character and deflect attention off himself, and further as an excuse to avoid active scumhunting. He wants to downplay the flips because he knows that he looks bad after Q's flip, and he's stalling and sandbagging because he doesn't know how to react to Q's flip.

Ythan, if you offer a substantive point, I will respond. If you attempt to mischaracterize me to the town, I will clarify. If you scumplain, I will not respond. I will not ignore you, because I don't ignore players. Thanks. I will try to prevent this discussion from turning into a slog for the town to read, but that does not give you permission to snipe at me without question.

[Ythan]

I have permission to snipe at you however I like. You validate all criticisms of your play by making no effort to right the anti-town dung heap that is your iso in this game.

[Ythan]

Abel, we had a discussion yesterday about sumcreads and thinking a player is scum. While rereading your iso I have realized that you were referring to a read of a specific incident. This is not really how people use the term when they say they have a read on a player, but I get what you meant to say now.

[Ythan]

Also, Abel, I'm not really sure why you dropped Umbrage in your iso post 15.

[Ythan]

vote Umbrage

This is, by the by, still far and away the best wagon possible. U is pretty near the end of the alphabet so it will be a short while before this gets seriously rehashed.

[Regfan]

Wow, alright a lot happened in that night. I'm going to need to re-read Quaroths lines later. I've got to do a few massive catch-ups in other games today but should have a post up by tommorow afternoon. I've got a few questions for everyone to answer while I catch up:

1) Do you think Iamusername hid behind mafia or vig?
2) Does Quaroths scumflip make you think anyone is more lilely to be town/mafia?
3) Who's your largest suspect as of now?

[Ythan]

1) Do you think Iamusername hid behind mafia or vig?
2) Does Quaroths scumflip make you think anyone is more lilely to be town/mafia?
3) Who's your largest suspect as of now?

1 What on Earth? Beyond the question of how one would begin to theorize on this topic, what use would it possibly have for anyone?
2 To be announced.
3 Umbrage fo sho. Although I'm also going to drop a

FoS ConSpiracy

.

[Krazy]

Wat

[Krazy]

[/color]

ConSpiracy, Town vigilante

,

has been killed night one.

Try to keep up Y.

[Ythan]

Thanks Krazy. Using isos as one's primary method of analysis can be a tad confusing at times.

[Regfan]

What on Earth? Beyond the question of how one would begin to theorize on this topic, what use would it possibly have for anyone?

Speculation about previous actions is in no way useless, his past actions have no indication on future actions taken due to him being dead, thus dicussion on the matter can only be helpful and insightful. Simple: If someone says they believe he hid behind mafia, they have to speicify if they think he hid behind Quaroth of an alternate FoS they have, and then state reasoning behind why they believe that. This forces mafia to take a stand, giving us more information in an event of a future flip.

[Ythan]

Your question was not who he hid behind but what he hid behind. Which

is

useless. If you want to analyze his iso for tells re: who you think he hid behind in order to discover a target who was neither of the flipped killers, that's somewhat different, and I think a terribly convoluted and unreliable way to try to find mafia.