Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[DemonHybrid]

Neither of you meaning neither you nor Sundy. I'm on my phone.

[DemonHybrid]

Damn, this game.

Have you guys come up with anything? Thoughts, cases, anything?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, I've ISO'd demonhybrid. The first part of the game went just like I remembered it, that is, he was mainly townish. However, read in isolation, this posts stands out:

Whoever doesn't have a vote on Akira has my complete permission to hammer him. If he flips scum, I will cling onto a Cecily vote for dear life. You'll get an unvote from me over my dead body.

This was essentially the basis of AGar's suspision of DH. When AGar brought it up, DH responded with these posts:

VOTE: VOTE: DemonHybrid

Yesterday smells completely like chaining lynches after a bus.

Nice try though.

Can't go into too much detail. Sitting on my phone in scranton until the weather's nicer, but I have a comment.

What is your case for me over anyone else who voted Cecily?

And Parama posted minutes after I did. What is your point?

VOTE: VOTE: DemonHybrid

Yesterday smells completely like chaining lynches after a bus.

Nice try though.

Can't go into too much detail. Sitting on my phone in scranton until the weather's nicer, but I have a comment.

What is your case for me over anyone else who voted Cecily?

You set your vote in mind on D1. It's straight up chaining lynches.

But how am I different than someone like Parama, or better yet, someone who didn't vote Akira but voted Cecily?

Sundy is suspect to me for that reason.

But how am I different than someone like Parama, or better yet, someone who didn't vote Akira but voted Cecily?

This post:

Whoever doesn't have a vote on Akira has my complete permission to hammer him. If he flips scum, I will cling onto a Cecily vote for dear life. You'll get an unvote from me over my dead body.

That's not a town mindset. At all.

You realize that Parama said the same thing? Why aren't you on his case?

For the record, I find you extremely misguided town. You find the first person who committed such an action and bite them instead of looking at the big picture, and I don't think that you as scum would try something so wacky.

You bring up a point about cecily being a good target for a lynch, though. What do you think of the late wagoners and those off of the Akira wagon but on the Cecily wagon?

So, you're voting based off of word choice over intent? Think about what you're saying.

My question: there are people who voted Cecily but not Akira, and there were people who voted Akira late and still voted Cecily. What do you think of those people?

[Bub Bidderskins]

When I first read these, I thought that DH was making a legitimate point about why AGar didn't go after Parama. However, looking closely, there is not an answer to the original concern that AGar brought. He doesn't try to explain his actions at all. He simply attacks AGar for singling him out and points to Parama as an example of a "townie" who did the same thing. Upon review, it reads as evasive, and somewhat scummy. Furthermore, there is this post:

oh man DH you're acting like scum now. Why are you, instead of providing a defense to AGar's accusations, deflecting to me EVERY SINGLE TIME? Especially since I don't think you've ever pressed any suspicions on me.
Town read redacted; guess I'm gullible for whatever type of WIFOM Akira pulled there.

Parama, where did I say I thought you were scum? You've looked town all game.

Thus indicating that DH thought that Parama was town. It was that very night when Parama was killed. Perhaps DH thought that Parama was town, and was threatened by this post. So he killed him the following night and it turned out that Parama was the traitor.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Later that day, he made this post:

I'd say there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons. I need to do some analysis.

This was right after he got off of TS's wagon.

@DH: Why did you say that "there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons" when you yourself were on TS's wagon earlier that day?

[DemonHybrid]

@DH: Why did you say that "there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons" when you yourself were on TS's wagon earlier that day?

Can scum not be on the same wagon that town is?

Just because I said there was probable scum on both wagons and I was on one of them, that doesn't mean everyone on the wagons is scum. I would hope that didn't need to be explained.

Also, it seems your main focus is on me being on the Cecily wagon, saying that I would vote Cecily no matter what.

1. First off, your whole point about me seeing Parama as town has no merit. Tell me one person who saw Parama as scum at that point in time.
2. Second off, my point is that (and once again, I had hoped that this didn't need to be explained) it was normal townie behavior to suspect the person naturally defending the scum after a slip. I equated my play to Parama's (at the time, who I, and everyone else, thought was extremely town) as an

example

to show that AGar's argument had no merit. And it doesn't.

Here's Cecily's lynch wagon.

Cecily (6) - crazypianist1116, Parama, DemonHybrid, Maemuki, TwistedSpoon, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) - Oso, Cecily, AGar, Sundy, Riceballtail

^ Cecily lynch wagon

All three of us (Parama, you, and I) were on the wagon, and I'm definitely sure that if AGar was on to post, he would have been, too. So I don't understand the tendency to single me out just because I stressed the fact that I was going to commit an action that was obviously the right move at the time and to basically be honest to everyone. Cecily was the obvious lynch if Akira flipped scum at the time. That is normal logical cognitive processing, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.

tl;dr:

My Parama comparison was just an EXAMPLE.
Townies and scum alike were on the Cecily wagon. You were, too, and I'm sure AGar would have been if he had time (AGar, I'd like you to clarify this, as this is just an assumption; you never gave your PERSONAL thoughts on the wagon before or after it and whether you would have liked to been on it at the time)
My choice in language, in order to be honest, really has nothing to do with the intent; the intent was the same as every other townie on the wagon.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@DH: Why did you say that "there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons" when you yourself were on TS's wagon earlier that day?

Can scum not be on the same wagon that town is?

Just because I said there was probable scum on both wagons and I was on one of them, that doesn't mean everyone on the wagons is scum. I would hope that didn't need to be explained.

Yes, they can be, but that isn't the issue, the issue is the hypocracy. You criticized a wagon which you had just been on.

Also, it seems your main focus is on me being on the Cecily wagon, saying that I would vote Cecily no matter what.

1. First off, your whole point about me seeing Parama as town has no merit. Tell me one person who saw Parama as scum at that point in time.
2. Second off, my point is that (and once again, I had hoped that this didn't need to be explained) it was normal townie behavior to suspect the person naturally defending the scum after a slip. I equated my play to Parama's (at the time, who I, and everyone else, thought was extremely town) as an example to show that AGar's argument had no merit. And it doesn't.

Here's Cecily's lynch wagon.

Cecily (6) - crazypianist1116, Parama, DemonHybrid, Maemuki, TwistedSpoon, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) - Oso, Cecily, AGar, Sundy, Riceballtail

^ Cecily lynch wagon

All three of us (Parama, you, and I) were on the wagon, and I'm definitely sure that if AGar was on to post, he would have been, too. So I don't understand the tendency to single me out just because I stressed the fact that I was going to commit an action that was obviously the right move at the time and to basically be honest to everyone. Cecily was the obvious lynch if Akira flipped scum at the time. That is normal logical cognitive processing, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.

tl;dr:

My Parama comparison was just an EXAMPLE.
Townies and scum alike were on the Cecily wagon. You were, too, and I'm sure AGar would have been if he had time (AGar, I'd like you to clarify this, as this is just an assumption; you never gave your PERSONAL thoughts on the wagon before or after it and whether you would have liked to been on it at the time)
My choice in language, in order to be honest, really has nothing to do with the intent; the intent was the same as every other townie on the wagon.

I understand that it was an example, that wasn't my issue with your defense from AGar. My issue was that you never actually explained why you voted for Cecily like you just did now. The whole of your response to AGar was devoted to asking him why he didn't go after Parama who did the same thing. Your response comes off as evasive and defensive.

[DemonHybrid]

Yes, they can be, but that isn't the issue, the issue is the hypocracy. You criticized a wagon which you had just been on.

There's no hypocrisy. I know and have always known that I was on the wagon. That wasn't my point; My point was that there might have been scum on both wagons -not including- me, and again, I would have hoped that would have been obvious.

I understand that it was an example, that wasn't my issue with your defense from AGar. My issue was that you never actually explained why you voted for Cecily like you just did now. The whole of your response to AGar was devoted to asking him why he didn't go after Parama who did the same thing. Your response comes off as evasive and defensive.

...which was an example. Which -reinforces- my reasoning, as the reasoning was already explained by everyone else. Me, crazy, you, Twisted, Mae, and everyone else who wanted to be on Cecily's wagon but didn't have time to ALL had the same reasoning. It was obvious.

[AGar]

I was going to re-read, post up a case, look at both of you and all that.

But I'm trusting my gut on this one, for the most part. Everything about DH's play has read to me as off, and Akira folded like a house of cards as if he knew fighting back would cause more harm than good. I'm being accused of "blatant" bandwagon hopping, but DH has done the same thing throughout the game. D1 it was CrazyPianist->Sundy->Akira, D3 he didn't lay down a vote at all until the RBT wagon came up and gathered steam, and D5 he flip-flopped between me and CP.

The only case to be made against Bub was that he was off of the Akira wagon and on the Cecily wagon, which holds some merit, as bussing a partner D1 in this setup could be risky, but with the traitor there, the case doesn't hold up in my eyes.

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Either I handed Bub-scum a win here, because I just don't see it, or I've been right since D3.

[DemonHybrid]

More with the gut?

Alex, if you're town and you fucking hand this away on a fucking gut read, I'm going to be slightly angry.

Whatever happened to "Bub is scummy, hear me out"? Where's your goddamn case?

[DemonHybrid]

More importantly, why did you switch as soon as Bub turns and says that, to him, my play seemed slightly scummy? Seriously, it's like you abandoned this "Bub is scummy" crap as soon as he questioned me.

For the record, I see three options coming out of this.

1. You unvote and we can continue to make cases and analyze this further
2. Bub quickvotes me
3. Bub doesn't quickvote me, I vote you and he chooses between us two

I give you all the freedom and power in the world to choose #1.

[AGar]

You said you don't want NK analysis, so my point on Bub is null. Even with NK analysis, it's weak, and my gut feeling is still stronger.

Ignoring gut in the past has cost me dearly, I'm not going to let it happen again.

[DemonHybrid]

Very well.

Vote: AGar

You should NOT be basing a LyLo vote on a gut read at this point in the game, and if your only points against Bub were to save your own ass (seeing as how you admit it's weak), I don't find it genuine.

[Enigma]

Votecount 6.1

Eternity is really long ... especially near the end.

DemonHybrid (1) - AGar
AGar (1) - DemonHybrid

Not Voting (1) - Bub Bidderskins

With 3 Alive it takes 2 to lynch, 2 to no lynch.
The

deadline

is 7:30pm 9th April GMT+10.30.

---

Anyone may post if a player has been hammered. Don't need to wait for me to declare game over.
Backlogged/upcoming flavor should be ready in a few days also.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:

Ugh fuck my life. Fuck it fuck it fuck it fuck it.

I don't know what to make of this game anymore. Gut says DH. Then gut says DH is spewing town tells like a slit throat. Then gut says "no, don't doubt yourself."

FUUUUCk.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

Are you crazy?

[AGar]

Slightly, but that is irrelevant.

God dammit.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not really buying the whole "inner turmoil" thing.

I'd like Bub to check in.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm sort of in the same position as AGar except backwards. For the whole game my gut was telling me that DH was town, but now, upon re-examining his posts in isolation, I've come to question that read. However, before I make a decision, I need to look at AGar. I don't have time to do that tonight, but I'll try to get my findings on him in by tomorrow.

[DemonHybrid]

Bub, how long are you going to be around?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Bub, how long are you going to be around?

What do you mean?

[DemonHybrid]

I want to try something and I want to know if I can trust you or not. I may be throwing the game away (I really hope I'm not ._.), but I'm pretty certain of this:

Vote: AGar

Please post.

[DemonHybrid]

For the record, I don't trust AGar's wishy washy vote patterns. I don't trust his theatrical inner turmoil of today and I don't trust his frustration. You've had consistent solid logic and I want to know, now or never, whether you're town or not.

[Bub Bidderskins]

vote: AGar

[DemonHybrid]

-_-

Fuck...