Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Me=Weird]

Hello. I feel like I should say something… oh well.

[Me=Weird]

TS's early posts seemed like town trying to get the game moving, so I have a town read on him.
Experience is somewhere around 25 games.
@Juls 32, does a game not count if you've changed a lot since then? I play way different than my early games, but I would still count them.
Oso-TS seems town on town right now, and I can say that in another game he said the same thing about pre-empting questions. Though he was scum then…
I can see EA scum, and I don't see anyone better right now, so

Vote: Erratus Apathos

[Me=Weird]

How can you put TS in the town column based on like 2 RVS posts?
Was Oso scum or town in the game where he pre-empted questions?

Oso was scum.
As I said before, I get a slight town read on TS because his frustration about voting the mod instead of real RVS seemed like genuine town trying to get the game going.
About voting EA, it was mostly just following you, and nobody else really stood out.
With his new post though, he says "Fair enough" to what's obviously a joke like it's completely serious. And then "What "definition" forces my vote to be a joke or RVS vote?" Seems to deny that he was serious, yet later he says it was attempting to move the game forward. Next he seems pretty eager to vote klazam, for something that a lot of people say(mostly random). It could be scum hopping off their buddy at first opportunity.
Farside: Why single out TS? Javert, Klazam, Saurus and to a lesser extent Juls haven't really said much either.

[Me=Weird]

It doesn't deny that I'm serious, it confirms it in fact. I made that comment because Oso said my vote was "by definition" a joke/RVS vote, and I was baffled by him using that particular wording, especially when my vote wasn't actually a joke or RVS vote!

Huh, that seemed like you were saying it

was

a rvs post. I'll drop this one.
About "have no fear" vote, were you really thinking he wanted us to let our guard down, as opposed to just some catchy saying? Then, "fair enough" implies that you honestly believe he's going to save the town.

Or it could be town switching votes because his first case got disproven! What do you expect, me to stay on ender even after he debunked my argument?

How is reading too much into a joke post a case, and how is a response joke disproving it?

Not sure why I included Juls. Looking through her ISO now, I can't see why I did.
Farside, I thought you were just going against unopinionated people, not people who seemed to know what's going on, but not contributing. Saurus

is

prosaurus.

TS, SE means nothing but that you've been in a couple games, even if you did awful.

[Me=Weird]

Juls: I was asking that mostly out of curiosity.
Javert, is your day vig 1-shot?

I can definitely see ender scum, I know others have said this, but I'm re-stating it anyway.
Post 91, says saurus is trying to get out of situations where he'd be voted, when it was just no reads.
Post 113-114, doesn't think javert's a day vig, and is just using it to say whatever he wants. He stated that he's going to kill today, so it's easily confirmable, so scum wouldn't want to claim it.
117 "He can't kill all of us" sounds a lot more like scum talking to his team than about town.
125 doesn't really answer the questions.
130, he want's javert to wait until we have almost confirmed scum, a prime opportunity to kill him. "I'll find out what he is tonight." Wait, what's this? You're going to kill him?
Also, lurker hunting is a great way to look useful without doing anything. This is better than EA.

Unvote, Vote: ender241

[Me=Weird]

NE: The part of the post you were talking about was in response to Oso, and it's old stuff. Don't see why you bring it up now, because IIRC, you've post between then and now. I think Oso's town right now.
"Also, ender thinks there are three possibilities regarding Javert and only one of them invovles him being scum, why vote?"
Probabilities are pretty useless in mafia. Sure, two out of 3 situations have him as town, that doesn't mean he's more likely to be town.

[Me=Weird]

Juls, all I can say is that I normally say cases like that. Check any of my recent games. But what about it seems scummy to you?

[Me=Weird]

I brought that up because it looked to me like he invented the other two possibilities when he was under pressure. I don't see why he would be campaigning for Javert so hard if he genuinely thought there was a strong possibility that Javert was town. If that possibility is weak, how does that justify his defense?

But even though he didn't think Javert was town, there were still two possibilities for him being town. Not thinking them likely doesn't mean they don't exist.

BTW why the heck should Me=Weird be attacking people?

I…what? This is mafia. The whole game is attacking people. Why did you write this?

nooo
that's rolefishing
what answer are you expecting? "I'm the cop"?

You do realize how close he is to being lynched, don't you? It's about time to ask for a claim.

I noticed Javert claimed day vig. Probably a gambit. I'm not too concerned about it if its not, as it seems like his shot would not end the day or change the number to lynch causing an inadvertant hammer.

Why do you think it would be a gambit? What would the point be?
If you want to find out why we're voting ender maybe you should read our posts?

personally, no

however it may already be too late since you've already hinted that you're a PR :/

Two things. 1. Why are you so against ender claiming/us finding stuff out about his role? 2. You're implying you would just take him at face value, ignoring possibilities of him being scum. Why are you so convinced of his towniness?

[Me=Weird]

Because when he did it, he pretty much said he'd shoot whoever it was that put him at L-1 (Or hammered him if he can shoot in twilight.) So people wouldn't vote to avoid being Day Killed.

But, as someone else said, he was in no danger of being lynched. There is no way he claimed to save his skin.

Hey Javert, you said you'd vig someone for 4 days without content? Well Klazam has gone the entire game without content, so you know what to do.

Actually, he said anyone who didn't post content for 4 days is

in the running.

Didn't I mention earlier that going after lurkers is a good way to look useful without doing anything?
I'm inclined to believe ender's claim. The "I'll find out tonight" fit's in perfectly with cop planning to investigate Javert.

Juls suspected you because you were adressing the town with your points rather than attacking players themselves.
I was asking why somebody should have to attack the player over a point. It's not the player you have to convince that he is guilty.

The way you said it seemed like you were asking why I would attack someone, like why would I find someone suspicious.

really? I'm sure he said it was one shot

I distinctly remember him saying he wouldn't answer.
As for mafia dayvig, I believe there's a mafia assassin, which kills during the day, but it's rarely used.

Seeing as how I believe ender, I'm going to move to NE. Here's why:
First, he says he thinks the votes on ender are "ridiculous", but later on(when there's a wagon) he votes ender for including possibilities of javert being town, which as I have said multiple times, even though there are more possibilities of him being town, doesn't mean he is. The one where he's scum could still be more probable.

It's not clear that ender had three possibilities in mind when he voted for Javert. He didn't post anything indicating the other two possibilities until after Oso voted for him. That combined with his vote for me when I'd only been absent for one day says to me that he is scum overreacting to the heat he'd been receiving.

He ignored the other possibilities before because he didn't see them likely. That's a very weak point.
Plus, I'm just getting a general scummy vibe from his posts.

Unvote, Vote: Necessary Evil

[Me=Weird]

Sorry it's been a busy couple of days. Would somebody mind summing up the case on TS?

Thank you for proving my point for me. ender didn't think Javert was town when he voted for him (clearly) and made up the two town possibilities to cover his ass.

No no no. What I'm saying is that there is nothing to suggest that he made that up. The possibilities existed then, and he was probably aware of them, he just didn't think them likely. I don't see what makes you think he made them up.

For the first point, my point was that Oso's case on ender was too thin and too dependant on EA being scum when the EA case was bad. That's a far cry from "he says he thinks the votes on ender are 'ridiculous'". The second point indicates that you're not understanding my case.

Really? I thought you used that word. Still, you were pretty critical of it all. Since I'm not understanding it, maybe you should clarify it for me?

M=W is rolefishing when he tries to find out if Javert is a one shot vig.

Out of all the things in this game, you think what you perceive to be role-fishing to be the scummiest stuff in the game? Look, I can think of at least one reason for asking that off the top of my head. A doctor trying to figure out whether to protect a vig, which if not 1-shot, would be the best thing to do, or a 1-shot cop, when a 1-shot vig has already used his bullet.

[Me=Weird]

Assuming these are directed at me.

1. Did you read the light claim from ender why or what does a full claim gain the town (2) if he's scum fake claiming/hinting then he outs the real none of this happened soooo how is he scum?

1. If you mean the "I'll find out what he is tonight", then yes. I still wanted a claim because it was possible he was scum and would claim something else. 2. Can you rephrase this? I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean.

[Me=Weird]

Klazam: If you were a doctor, would you protect a 1-shot vig who's used his kill and is just confirmed, or a 1-shot cop who's practically confirmed too, and has an investigation to make?
Oso, it's true that ender hadn't claimed, but…
Post-130:02 April 2011

…
I'll find out what he is tonight.
…

he had soft-claimed, and I made a correct assumption on what that meant if he weren't scum.

[Me=Weird]

I really need to take another look at this game tomorrow.
Re: me somehow knowing enders softclaim was 1-shot: I didn't, but whether he was one shot or not didn't really make a difference in my reasoning.
TS's claim certainly fits in with previous comments, so I don't see a reason to disbelieve it.

Ender has claimed a PR, so we shouldn't lynch him if we think scumteam is EA Ender and Rhinox.

Wait, do we think EA, ender, and rhinox are scum? And if we shouldn't lynch him, why is ender included as scum?
Pro is one of my scum reads right now, I've had a busy day, so I'll talk about this tomorrow.

[Me=Weird]

@Javert 309: 1. In addition, ender had done what I saw to be scummy, but I'd also had a gut town feel from his posts. I thought he acted scummier than the town feel, so I attacked him anyway. Plus, he seemed pretty eager to claim, the way a PR would.

I do not like this post. This is a pretty bad justification for asking me the number of shots in my role.

What do you want me to do about that?
[quote="PS "Tell me what to do!" #1"]In the RVS, this is scummy how? I'm pretty new, please explain this.[/quote]
Here, PS is playing the newbie card, asking for people to give opinions instead of actually giving one.
[quote="PS "Tell me what to do" #2"]I did pretty much skim. But that was of TS's posts I read, the rest were pretty much fluff, so I was wondering how he seemed so scummy to some people.[/quote]
Hint: Content is good. Fluff is not content. Fluff is scummy.
[quote="PS "Tell me what to do" #3"]PS: Just did a proper read. But, due to my lack of experience/skill, I'm lacking reads on anyone.
About Oso, I don't see anything he did as scummy. Answering questions before they're asked is in no way scummy to me, it just saves posts really.[/quote]
No opinions. It's a lot easier for town to have suspicions than scum, because scum would have to fake it. Second line just looks like filler to me.

@Juls I wouldn't vote. Why vote for some random person, possibly getting them lynched, without a reason?

Because of course, we wouldn't lynch that person. We do it until there's a reaction, causing us to exit RVS.

And is there a reason why I should care about being Day Killed? I don't see one.

…Because you'd be dead? It would reduce the numbers of your faction? This could be scum trying not to get killed by acting like they wouldn't care.

So are you a cop or scum?

You have no idea how much I face-palmed when I first read this. Why on earth would you say this? It just points it out to any scum who might not have noticed, and if he hadn't had to claim, this would be awful. I read that as more of, "is this untrue, or are you a PR I can kill?"

I haven't actually. I have more of a life than being on Mafia 24/7.

Hint: Read posts. Active lurking is way different from not posting.

Because when he did it, he pretty much said he'd shoot whoever it was that put him at L-1 (Or hammered him if he can shoot in twilight.) So people wouldn't vote to avoid being Day Killed.

He said nothing of the sort. If that were why he claimed, then why did he do it with such little suspicions on him?

Heh. You come back right when we're thinking of day vigging you. Perfect timing?

Opportunistic scum? IIRC, he just got prodded.

@Juls Why vote Maxous? Any reasons you can tell us?
…
EA was most suspicious otherwise.

Did you read your own post? In the same one where you ask for reasoning, you make a vote without reasoning.
With this in addition to gut,

Unvote, Vote: Prosaurus

[Me=Weird]

Wondering how on earth something is scummy makes me scummy?

Except that it doesn't look like that so much as wondering what the popular opinion is.

Not always.

When isn't it? Fluff is posting nothing relevant, which is taking up space, which is trying to make your post seem bigger and more important.

I don't think this was in RVS.

So it wasn't. It meant that you would rather no-lynch, and, depending on whether it's LyLo, lose the game.

In my only two other games, people who cared about being killed were lynched beacause "Only scum care about surviving"

So you're saying "In other games, people who cared about dying got lynched, so I'm going to act like I don't care, so I don't get lynched"?

You're saying scum are dumber than me? And I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who said that.

Where am I saying that? And whether or not other people said that doesn't make it better. Anyway, you're the only one who said that and got noticed.

I didn't know that still someone (NE I think) told me that.

So read. Think. "Why would he say active if he's accusing me of lurking? Maybe he's saying something else!"

Well I took it that way.

What did he say that possibly could have given you that impression?

Yeah... Or he could be scum lurking for as long as possible.

So I looked, and it wasn't him who was prodded. He'd last posted only a day ago. That's not exactly "as long as possible".

Actually I think I put reasoning in an earlier post, but didn't vote.

Where? And even if you did, so did farside.
Emotional reaction noted. Happy with my vote.

[Me=Weird]

@Maxous maybe you didn't see this: "I thought he acted scummier than the town feel, so I attacked him anyway."? With the claim however, it changed that.
Necessary evil is still a scum read, but more minor, and nobody else seems to think so.
@PS: I'm not going to go through and respond to every response. As for your questions, go look at the klazam post you were talking about in ISO, and look at the post directly before it. For the other one, maybe if you'd read her response to that, you'd know.

@Me=Weird: Oso, seems to think your "answer" regarding the timeline is sufficient but I don't. Can you please explain your motivations for asking Javert if his role was one-shot prior to there being any indication of one-shot cops?
Secondly, I think your case on Prosaurus boils down to: You're a newb!
Thirdly, Can you please explain the point that Maxous brought up about the "I'd also had a gut town feel from his[ender] posts" when you had voted for him early on.

1. Whether or not the cop was one-shot didn't matter to me. I think I've said this before.
2. No, newb scum. He's acting like newb scum, which I can say I've seen before.
3. See above.

[Me=Weird]

Juls:
a. I

didn't

think he was town. I've said already that I felt his scummy actions overweighed the gut town feel. All that happened was the claim changed that.
b. I see that I probably shouldn't have asked that now, but at the time it felt like a good question because of the thought process I explained earlier. Plus, the last mini normal I was in had a 1-shot vig.

Javert:
At first he was reluctant, but later he was saying "do you want me to claim? I will if you want me to". Wouldn't PR's be reluctant at first to claim, but if it seems inevitable, more eager to claim as to avoid being accidentally lynched? In 212, when asked why he was so eager, he answered, instead of saying he wasn't.

PS, I am not giving up the case. I just don't see any point in it. I think you're scum, hopefully other people will too.

[Me=Weird]

Are you a moron, or have you never heard of having a gut town read on somebody who's done scummy things?

[Me=Weird]

PS, I am not giving up the case. I just don't see any point in it.

I think you're scum, hopefully other people will too.

If there's no point in a case, you shouldn't have one...

There's no point in continuing to respond. I've made my point. I doubt much is going to change.

I feel like I should be voting klazam, but Tuesdays are really busy for me. Will look into him tomorrow.

[Me=Weird]

Hm. I don't entirely approve of the ender kill.
Post #244: Klazam attacked me and prosaurus for "role-fishing". Scum often look for townies doing common "scumtells" that are so widely known, scum don't actually do anymore. And thus useless as scum-tells.
This, combined with not providing much reasoning for his votes, lots of short, content sparse posts and scum vibes, makes me think he's scum. He seems like the most likely of my scumspects to get lynched, and I don't like wasting my vote, so

Unvote, Vote: Klazam

[Me=Weird]

Maxous, can you please consolidate why you think I'm scum into one post. Thanks.
I can see Oso as an alternate lynch, seeing as how EA made a good point about believing the claims and still suspecting them.
Also, 244 by klazam, he accuses me and PS of role-fishing for mentioning the "I'll find out tonight", but, completely ignores 179, by oso, which was pointing out ender's softclaim, which could also be role-fishing. This could definitely be scum together, with klazam not wanting to spread suspicion on his partner.

[Me=Weird]

^But, confirmed town can be scummy, but they wouldn't be on scumlists. You're saying you believe their claims, but they're still acting scummy, so you're keeping them on your list. I'll repeat that. You are saying that you believe their claims, but still think they're scum.
P-edit: How many times do I have to say that his scummy actions overruled the gut read, but the claim changed that. Why would scum claim 1-shot cop? It's a much rarer role than normal cop, and thus a weaker claim. Why then, would scum claim a role like that? Normal cop, or doctor, would be much easier.

[Me=Weird]

@max: That's true, but 1-shot cop is quite rare, I've never seen it in a game before. So it's much less likely to be believed than a normal cop claim.
@oso: I can see that, but you said you believed their claims, but still suspected that. It seems contradictory to me. I could see it if you wanted to wait for their results, but you just kept them high on your scumlist.
PS, I don't Klaz has claimed to be newb, just not too experienced, which I can see.

[Me=Weird]

Well, the breadcrumbs are pretty convincing. Though as someone said, Juls was off a bit.
PS, scum masons are not allowed in normal games. Neighbors(unconfirmed town) are, but that's not what they claimed. Furthermore, to repeat what others have said, masons are incredibly risky for scum to claim. If one dies, the other is confirmed scum. I just can't see scum doing that. Anyway, I guess now I'll

Unvote, Vote: Oso

MOD: can you prod Javert?

[Me=Weird]

First, I don't see why your read on me would weaken, and second, the bold part shouldn't matter to town at all. This is nudging me towards MW scum.

It didn't weaken, I got stronger ones, which made it weaker comparatively. The bold part was regarding lynching you. Obviously I can't lynch you on my own.

I've posted like this as scum before (but not with this account). This is desperation. He's being semi conciliatory while trying to defend. Strong scum read.

Are you just twisting everything so it

could

be scummy, or are you an idiot? How is that desperation? I wanted why he thought I was scum into one post because I wanted to make sure there weren't things I hadn't responded to. Why do you want to lynch TS? Do you disbelieve his claim? Why? And do you know how exceedingly dumb and moronic it is to use connections before there's been a scum flip? Do you ever consider that you're

wrong?

[Me=Weird]

Why even bring up the bold part if I'm just lower on your scum list? You're suggesting the possibility of my lynch without any commitment. You're looking for people to respond with support for my lynch.

Can you rephrase this, because I'm having a hard time seeing what you're saying.

See how you're overreacting here? That shows that you're confrontational in your defense most of the time. Maxous has been on you for quite a while and, despite your best efforts, you can't shake him. The way you posted indicates that you know Maxous is town and want to please him so he will vote somebody else.

I'm not overreacting. I am saying what your post made me think. Is there something wrong with being confrontational? Despite that Maxous has been tunneling on me, I do think he's town, and of course I want him to move his vote.

My strongest scum read is on TS

VOTE: Me=Weird

??

MW however has done is follow BW's at least twice I have seen. He never mentions Klaz or Oso (expect to call Oso town) but has no issue voting him. That doesn't match up under any circumstance.

Stuff changed. When I called Oso town, that was way early, before any claims. I'm pretty sure I mentioned klaz a few times.

[Me=Weird]

MW: The only time you mention klaz was to ask me about my read and to answer questions. Then the post before you vote for him you said you would read him then voted him the next post.
Before EA you called Oso town that was not at the very beginning.

Okay, so maybe I didn't mention him much, but I don't put everything I think about the game in my posts. I did feel he was scum, just not enough to write about before then.
Where did I call Oso town that was not at the beginning?

[Me=Weird]

I'm lynched in my sleep? You guys are so mean. I'm just normal townie. No PR here.