Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[neil1113]

Nacho, from your answer to #4 it sounds like you're approaching it with a closed mind. Don't do that, as it shuts down your ideas for options outside of those two. Tunneling doesn't benefit us as town.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Nacho, from your answer to #4 it sounds like you're approaching it with a closed mind. Don't do that, as it shuts down your ideas for options outside of those two. Tunneling doesn't benefit us as town.

Neil, your aversion to answering my questions is noted.

[Pine]

I'm a little lurky in part because I'm genuinely busy this weekend, but also because I've played with Nacho before and I know how good he is. I have a solid, iron-clad scum-read on pappums rat, and I'm concerned that someone as skilled as Nacho will be able to manipulate the uncertain nature of the late phase of D1 to worm out of it.

[Voidedmafia]

Do you agree with Nacho's points against me, Pine?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: If yes, would you consider lynching me instead?

If no, why?

[Pine]

Considering that I think Nacho is scum trying to weasel his way out of a lynch, I'm taking every word he says with a bucket of salt.

[chkflip]

tl;dr intro - I'm of the opinion that pappum's rat-gambit worked successfully, and here's why:

From the first reaction onward, Voidedscum has been over-defensive. There's a difference between town trying to disprove a gambit and scum freaking out; it doesn't look like the former to me, therefore, voidedscum is freaking out. See also:



VM backtracks, theorizes, and deflects all in a way that doesn't seem town motivated to me. At all. Backtracking, okay, maybe somebody misinterpreted some ambiguity; his first question and his "VERY suspicious" feelings are completely OMGUS and sound like someone trying to do anything to make pappum's the one in the hotseat.

This would only make sense if you didn't actually bring attention to yourself repeatedly... but you did. (see also: previously linked posts) It looks to me like P. Ratty looked at a person who had some anti-town tendencies and took a calculated risk. Risk worked, one question. UMADBRO?

AtE will not give you my pity, nor will it make me think you're any more town than I already think you aren't. No further attempts to try to reiterate your stance? No scumhunting? Nothing. Just -_- and we're supposed to believe this fakeclaim? inb4 "ah guys, I was roleblocked."

VOTE: Voidedmafia

[mikemike778]

well i remember when you played scum in my game everyone thought you were protown and glorious because you give analysis but you don't step on toes.
and here everyone hates you, you're not jumping on the easier wagons that they're begging you to, and you're not jumping on the easy target but obvtown, you're pissing people off, and you're bitchin about me lurking.

That's a town having fits if i ever heard one.

which game ? link ?

Still waiting ...

Not buying the Voided wagon yet. Maybe WIFOM but I don't see a scum with a guilty claiming Neighbour/izer. If he was scum, he would probs assume the claim was legit - if he was going to fake claim why fake claim a relatively minor role as opposed to a Doc or Normal Cop to try and draw them out. After all, without Rat's revelation Voided would have been lynched fairly quickly.

Keeping my vote on Fitz as not much has changed in my mind with Ces and Pine still alternatives.

If there's renewed interest in a voided wagon I'm totally up for that. I particularly like his recent appeal to newbieness- that's a last resort if I've ever heard one. The neighbor-neighborizor bit, as I've said and said, would be enough to lynch him.
Besides, the deadline's been extended.

Unvote
Vote: voided

If the neighbor-neighborizor thing was enough to lynch him on its own as you've said and said then why vote for Andrew here ? Seems a very woolly vote really - very difficult to get anything of a read on him, can't see many getting much more than a neutral.

Pine:
1. Is Xalxe's replacement.
2. He claims there is "no protown reason" for pappum's gambit. Really, Pine? No pro-town reason? Maybe you disagree with it, but there still is a reason, that pappums and others (including myself) have argued: that it started discussion and helped give this game a focus.
3. His reaction to andrew in post 383 is way off. It's almost as if he intentionally overreacted in order to confirm his theory in post 364.
4. Pine is uncomfortably obsessed with LAL, as Jahudo pointed out.

andrew94:
1. In 303, he declares that "we have enough reactions to pappum's gambit". Except for his very recent posts on Pine, however, he focusses solely on pappums. Why would somebody want to shut down discussion on his only lynch target, unless that lynch wasn't convincing in the first place? I realize he defined progress as lynching pappums, but it's still strange to call for an end to discussion about pappums.
2. He slyly suggests that voided is scum in post 165, but does a complete 180 when pappums revealed his gambit. It makes it seem like he knew the alignments of both players beforehand.
3. He refuses to make sense of his posts when asked.

I like lynches on these two. I don't know which is more likely to get a wagon, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say andrew, just because Pine is still a fresh face. If there's interest in Pine I'll switch immediately.

Vote: andrew

Come deadline time, if we continue to limit our choices to fitz and pappums, I'll vote pappums, as I've already said. But I hope that can be avoided.

i have never said that i, in any way, was cleared from being scum. (i even said that previously in a post when people were saying that i was trying to clear myself). what i was doing in that post was trying to make people question whether scum was more likely to take the course of actions that i did or that fitz did

The two aren't exactly the same thing, but they're close. How many times couldn't you say, "which is more likely, a gambit or ___"?

[P.T. Barnum]

1. Sufficient to lynch =/= necessary to lynch, sufficient to lynch =/= only player worth lynching (I think andrew and pine have both done enough for us to lynch them.
2. Voting and wagoning has importance outside of lynching.
3. I have no clue what you're getting at with "a neutral" or "wolly at best." Clarify your pronouns.

[P.T. Barnum]

*have

[Voidedmafia]

From the first reaction onward, Voidedscum has been over-defensive. There's a difference between town trying to disprove a gambit and scum freaking out; it doesn't look like the former to me, therefore, voidedscum is freaking out. See also:

Yes, because town can't freak out like this, too. *rolls eyes*

TOO BAD I'M GONNA YELL IN ALL CAPS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

VM backtracks, theorizes, and deflects all in a way that doesn't seem town motivated to me. At all.

Theorizing? yes. After all, I was trying to figure out why he picked me.
Deflecting? I suppose.
Backtracking? No.

Backtracking, okay, maybe somebody misinterpreted some ambiguity; his first question and his "VERY suspicious" feelings are completely OMGUS and sound like someone trying to do anything to make pappum's the one in the hotseat.

Or just get myself out of the hotseat. I mentioned many times prior to Rat revealing the gambit that I was focused on not getting lynched. Perhaps my play didn't contribute to that, but that was my goal until I was safe from being lynched.

This would only make sense if you didn't actually bring attention to yourself repeatedly... but you did. (see also: previously linked posts)

Huh? You make no sense...

It looks to me like P. Ratty looked at a person who had some anti-town tendencies and took a calculated risk. Risk worked, one question. UMADBRO?

what?

AtE will not give you my pity, nor will it make me think you're any more town than I already think you aren't.

Oh, jee, I can't ask for where I am in the votecount anymore? Guess I'll just let others say what it is to not be scummy anymore!

No further attempts to try to reiterate your stance? No scumhunting? Nothing. Just -_-

No. I already explained this and mentioned this before.

and we're supposed to believe this fakeclaim? inb4 "ah guys, I was roleblocked."

Can you roleblock Neighborizor/Neighbor? If not, lovely point here.

Mike: What did you even mean by "woolly vote", anyways?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Pine, you didn't explain why you disagreed with Nacho's points. You said you don't take them, but not why.

[havingfitz]

Void...who are your top three suspects and why? Is there anyone outside of those three who would you be ok with a lynch on today? Links to your cases on the top three would be fine if you have them.

[Voidedmafia]

I admit, I haven't focused on anyone else except Rat outside of replying to other things (or defending myslf as with Nacho and Chk), so I don't have any other case to give you. I was going to keep on Rat until his lynch, and then focus on looking at others because I'm sure that he's scum.

[mikemike778]

1. Sufficient to lynch =/= necessary to lynch, sufficient to lynch =/= only player worth lynching (I think andrew and pine have both done enough for us to lynch them.
2. Voting and wagoning has importance outside of lynching.
3. I have no clue what you're getting at with "a neutral" or "wolly at best." Clarify your pronouns.

Neutral - Andrew said little of any significance, it was all nothing-y nonsense or thats what I made of it anyway. By neutral I meant I couldn't see how anyone could get a positive read (scum or town) on him. Not enough to lynch anyway if you had a confident a read on someone else

Woolly - not much in it, fairly fluffy - reasons given hardly convincing.

If you thought the neighbour thing was a satisfactory reason to lynch Voided (I don't but thats a different matter) then I don't see why your reasons given for your Andrew vote would make him the better vote.

Can you clarify your point re 2 - that you were not voting to lynch Andrew but to build up a wagon ?

[chkflip]

588 = "I haven't scumhunted, I've just tried my hardest to deflect deflect deflect."

585 isn't any better; you're not refuting points, you're getting emotional about people voting for you. Scumhunt.

Also, the part I "make no sense" in is quite simple. The first post would only make sense if you weren't bringing a lot of attention to yourself; unfortunately, the two posts I linked afterward (and any I liked before that) were all very eye-catching. In other words, it doesn't make sense for you to say "rat picked a random person" when you very obviously did things that weren't pro-town and therefore aren't a random target.

[Voidedmafia]

588 = "I haven't scumhunted, I've just tried my hardest to deflect deflect deflect."

585 isn't any better; you're not refuting points, you're getting emotional about people voting for you. Scumhunt.

588:

Also, the part I "make no sense" in is quite simple. The first post would only make sense if you weren't bringing a lot of attention to yourself; unfortunately, the two posts I linked afterward (and any I liked before that) were all very eye-catching. In other words, it doesn't make sense for you to say "rat picked a random person" when you very obviously did things that weren't pro-town and therefore aren't a random target.[/quote]

[Voidedmafia]

BLKEJRLAJERKLJ! STUPID TAB BUTTON!

588 = "I haven't scumhunted, I've just tried my hardest to deflect deflect deflect."

585 isn't any better; you're not refuting points, you're getting emotional about people voting for you. Scumhunt.

588: I just said I'm focused on Rat/Nacho right now because I believe he's scum.

585: I am refuting points (if sarcastically). And since you're oh so kindly asking me to, I'm gonna scumhunt just to please you. I'll start looking over people, sure, but my focus is on Rat from here until he's lynched or D1 ends.

Also, the part I "make no sense" in is quite simple. The first post would only make sense if you weren't bringing a lot of attention to yourself; unfortunately, the two posts I linked afterward (and any I liked before that) were all very eye-catching. In other words, it doesn't make sense for you to say "rat picked a random person" when you very obviously did things that weren't pro-town and therefore aren't a random target.

[/quote]
the over-defensive link I said was again, knee-jerk. I can see why you'd think it was over-defensive since it probably how I felt at the time.

2nd link, I don't know what else you want me to say.

3rd link makes no sense in that regard, since I was responding to RQS that Cecily gave like everyone else did.

4th link isn't anti-town just because I say that I'm rather blunt at times and that I don't care for RVS (I should add all the time to that, though). I'll give that saying I don't care for RVS certainly drew attention to me, though.

5th link, how the hell do you get AtE from that?

6th link, *rolls eyes* of course you'd cast suspicion on it. Scum could even use your doubt of my role to their advantage, roleblocking me and making you vote me because "Hah! He was lying all along about his role! Get him!"

[havingfitz]

I admit, I haven't focused on anyone else except Rat outside of replying to other things (or defending myslf as with Nacho and Chk), so I don't have any other case to give you. I was going to keep on Rat until his lynch, and then focus on looking at others because I'm sure that he's scum.

Isn't it in the best interest of town to at least give a few of your suspects and why? You must have some if you have been keeping up....especially in a game this looooooooooooong. What if, hypothetically, you weren't today's lynch but you were the NK? With only one suspect (PR/Nacho) to whom you have camped on...the remaining town would have less to go on in trying to figure out why you might have been the (once again) hypothetical NK.

[Voidedmafia]

I know. -_- But I still detest being told to scumhunt like that.

Andrew's slot certainly is scummy. Not as scummy as I believe Rat's is, but it's not very pretty either. Not sure what to make of Chk right now, though.

I do agree with the Cecily case, and I am going to ISO her tomorrow if I'm not lynched or NK'd. I also have notes (which are just basic observations) for all of you that I'll give either tomorrow when I go over you, or perhaps today if the lynch swings my way. But Cecily is one suspect.

You, Fitz, are quite abrasive (and possibly unintentionally insulting), but you're town.

IK: Lurky king, more like. More null at the moment. I'm not LALu (Lynch All Lurkers), but he ought to replace overnight if he can't stay with us.

Jahudo is leaning town based on his play, but he's still lurking. Well, maybe not lurking, but doing what I'm doing, to an extent.

Bub, well, he's town right now, at least.

Tars...has done essentially nothing. She's also scummy because of that.

Mikemike is probably one of the more townish people here, along with you, Fitz.

Neil does seem to see-saw between being town and scum from his posts, so I'll leave him at null.

Barnum: Also town, and I've seen nothing to go against that.

Rat/Nacho: Obvscum, nothing more.

Pine: Also pretty town to me.

So, in conclusion, my suspects are:

Andrew/Chk, Cecily, and Tars.

I can post my notes beforehand if you wish, though.

[havingfitz]

Seems like more than a few people see a decent possibility of Cecily being scum. I'd still rather see her lynch than any of the others in the mix.

[chkflip]

I don't quite understand the Cecily wagon; would someone be so kind as to reiterate it?

[havingfitz]

I don't quite understand the Cecily wagon; would someone be so kind as to reiterate it?

Not a summary but here are my posts on her. Not sure if anyone else has added anything to it...

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2898536
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2900407
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2900671
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2921796
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2924024
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2926414

[neil1113]

P.T.,

What do you have as a case on Andrew? The only thing I see is a VI Policy Lynch, in which case if that's what your pushing over everyone else, that's extremely anti-town...

Voided,

Is there anyway to test your role claim?

[Voidedmafia]

Voided,

Is there anyway to test your role claim?

If you're chosen, Rhinox will tell you via PM. Though I have claimed, I still feel like if I chose you, you should stay silent about it for now. I can't stop you, of course, but that's what I'd want.