Maxous just recently said he was going to refrain voting for you to prevent you from being put at L-1. Therefore, even without my DayVig ability, you should consider yourself to effectively be at L-1. Believe it or not, I don't want to kill you if you are Town, and I am not going to DayVig you out of "pride" or my increasing annoyance with you. But continual refusal to claim in the hopes that you will be put at L-1 when there are obvious reasons for you to
Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)
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Javert Goon
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- Location: Montfermeil
Cute.
Maxous just recently said he was going to refrain voting for you to prevent you from being put at L-1. Therefore, even without my DayVig ability, you should consider yourself to effectively be at L-1. Believe it or not, I don't want to kill you if you are Town, and I am not going to DayVig you out of "pride" or my increasing annoyance with you. But continual refusal to claim in the hopes that you will be put at L-1 when there are obvious reasons for you tonotbe put at L-1 is not helping you."I was born with scum like you."-
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Maxous Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3975
- Joined: November 11, 2010
- Location: Ireland
Actually,
@Javert: How are you going to go about this? Day-Vig somebody who is about to be lynched(effectively giving the town 2 lynches today) or will you use your personal discretion about who will be killed regardless of the amount of votes on him?"And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative" - Belisarius
wiki (actually) updated-
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Javert Goon
- Goon
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That will probably depend largely on the vote count and whether or not people are willing to unvote. As I said earlier, my DayVigwill notreset the vote count. That said, the number required to lynch will be 7 both before and after the kill, but I would still rather not DayVig somebody if that is going to leave another player at L-1."I was born with scum like you."-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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- Location: Northeast Ohio
Back. Read through the posts I missed once but I do need some time to process.
I noticed Javert claimed day vig. Probably a gambit. I'm not too concerned about it if its not, as it seems like his shot would not end the day or change the number to lynch causing an inadvertant hammer.
I don't understand the reasoning for sudden wagon on ender. maybe I'll figure it out in the processing, but if someone can give me the bullet point run down I'd apreciate it.-
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Oso Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 873
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- Location: Northern California
@Rhinox
May main point is here: Basically boils down to what I see as slip. Several references, in my opinion, to him not believing Javert's claim but then acknowledging that he "..cant kill all off us."
My secondary reason: Javert posted here. Point #1 is close enough to what I was thinking of Ender's vote of Prosaurus that I didn't even try to put it into my own words really. Just quoted it and added agreement to it in my vote post.
EA has a post here worth looking at. Sheds a better light on Ender's actions.
At this point, I don't agree with EA's assessment though.
One other point of note. Ender may have made a soft claim here: Right before his NE vote"I'll find out what he is tonight". For my part, I'm still processing that one. Could be awkward wording or an incomplete thought or a soft-claim. I haven't decided which one for myself yet.
It does look as if Ender is trying to draw Javert's kill right now though. I don't like that but until I think on it some, I have no opinion on it, not even a knee-jerk opinion of it.My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.-
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ender241 Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Javert Thats all i need, your obviously bluffing.Javert wrote:Cute.
Maxous just recently said he was going to refrain voting for you to prevent you from being put at L-1. Therefore, even without my DayVig ability, you should consider yourself to effectively be at L-1. Believe it or not, I don't want to kill you if you are Town, and I am not going to DayVig you out of "pride" or my increasing annoyance with you. But continual refusal to claim in the hopes that you will be put at L-1 when there are obvious reasons for you tonotbe put at L-1 is not helping you.ShowFenchurch: Also ender's logic in vigging me was bad because even if I had self-protected, it wouldn't have lasted through the day. I would have had to make myself dayvig immune for that. But ender got luckyagain.
That's right people! I might be horrible at mafia but i'm a lucky shot.
Taking pre-ins for Smallville (Seasons 1-3) mafia!!-
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Javert Goon
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- Location: Montfermeil
Uh hunh.ender241 wrote:VOTE: Javert Thats all i need, your obviously bluffing.
It is pretty obvious that I would prefer to kill scum over stubborn Town, and right now you either one or the either. I had to "swallow my pride" (so to speak) to keep Oso in the game earlier; and now you need to do the same. If you are really Town, right now you are pursuing a course of action that is not helping the Town in any manner whatsoever. Although I will not kill youforbeing stubborn, being stubborn will notsaveyou."I was born with scum like you."-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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ender241 Mafia Scum
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Point taken. I didn't think of it like that UNVOTE:ShowFenchurch: Also ender's logic in vigging me was bad because even if I had self-protected, it wouldn't have lasted through the day. I would have had to make myself dayvig immune for that. But ender got luckyagain.
That's right people! I might be horrible at mafia but i'm a lucky shot.
Taking pre-ins for Smallville (Seasons 1-3) mafia!!-
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Oso Goon
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My apologies for that . I can go into more detail after the game if you want but you were basically on the receiving end of something that had very little to do with the game. Bad week.Javert wrote:.. I had to "swallow my pride" (so to speak) to keep Oso in the game earlier; and now you need to do the same.
..
That said, since we do have a way for scum to end the day before you can take a shot (self-voting at L-1), I don't see any way it can be avoided: You, and the rest of the thread (me included), have almost no choice but to hang the vigkill over the head of a player. At least until Javert's status has been confirmed.My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Maxous Mafia Scum
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- Location: Ireland
I don't fully understand what you mean by "hang the vigkill over the head of a player"Oso wrote: That said, since we do have a way for scum to end the day before you can take a shot (self-voting at L-1), I don't see any way it can be avoided: You, and the rest of the thread (me included), have almost no choice but to hang the vigkill over the head of a player. At least until Javert's status has been confirmed.
I'm not saying we should put someone at L-1 now but it won't exactly be a disaster if Javert does'nt get an opportunity to shoot today. If a scum self-hammers..we have gotten rid of a mafia member. Happy days.
If used correctly it will be useful but we don't absolutly need it."And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative" - Belisarius
wiki (actually) updated-
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ender241 Mafia Scum
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Do you guys want me to claim?ShowFenchurch: Also ender's logic in vigging me was bad because even if I had self-protected, it wouldn't have lasted through the day. I would have had to make myself dayvig immune for that. But ender got luckyagain.
That's right people! I might be horrible at mafia but i'm a lucky shot.
Taking pre-ins for Smallville (Seasons 1-3) mafia!!-
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Erratus Apathos Mafia Scum
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Of course scum can feign emotion, but does Ender's emotion look even the slightest bit feigned? To me it's very obviously legitimate, it fits like a glove with his anti-Javert play and makes sense given that he was saying this to Oso who at the time was also upset with Javert's play. I don't see any evidence that his emotion is fake, nor any scum motive for him to have this emotion. Thus, he is town.Necessary Evil wrote:
Not necessarily. Some scum will put more emotion in their posting just to give themselves a stronger town vibe. It's risky to dismiss someone as a suspect for that reason.Erratus Apathos wrote:The strong language here ("Just vote him already godamnit!") is excellent evidence that Ender was honest in his suspicion of Javert. Scum rarely ever get this emotional about getting their suspects lynched. Especially since I doubt scum would be antagonizing a claimed dayvig like this. Ender is town.
Why does it matter that Ender didn't post the other possibilities? He clearly favored the Javert-scum theory, so kinda obviously his posting is gonna be biased towards mentioning that theory.Necessary Evil wrote:You're totally misunderstanding my case. I'm not really surprised that you did because my post really wasn't well written. I spent 1.5-2 hours working on it because of all the content that was posted. I didn't really proofread it carefully because I had already put so much time in and I had other things I needed to do.
It's not clear that ender had three possibilities in mind when he voted for Javert. He didn't post anything indicating the other two possibilities until after Oso voted for him. That combined with his vote for me when I'd only been absent for one day says to me that he is scum overreacting to the heat he'd been receiving.
Where are you getting "I'd only been absent for one day" from? There's more than 48 hours between your iso 1 and 2.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I didn't dodge shit from MW. Here's the post in question:Maxous wrote:EA's repsonse to Me=Weird was not answering his question and looked like a dodge.
Let's see...Erratus Apathos wrote:
Yes that is how I originally interpreted that post. And no that's not at all what "fair enough" meant, it meant that I understood what he meant by "have no fear" and that I accepted my interpretation was wrong.Me=Weird wrote:
Huh, that seemed like you were saying itIt doesn't deny that I'm serious, it confirms it in fact. I made that comment because Oso said my vote was "by definition" a joke/RVS vote, and I was baffled by him using that particular wording, especially when my vote wasn't actually a joke or RVS vote!wasa rvs post. I'll drop this one.
About "have no fear" vote, were you really thinking he wanted us to let our guard down, as opposed to just some catchy saying? Then, "fair enough" implies that you honestly believe he's going to save the town.
BECAUSE I THOUGHT HIS POST WAS AN ATTEMPT TO GET THE TOWN TO LET THE GUARD DOWN, AND HIS RESPONSE CLARIFIED THAT HE WAS ONLY BRAGGING. I'M TIRED OF EXPLAINING THIS.Me=Weird wrote:
How is reading too much into a joke post a case, and how is a response joke disproving it?Or it could be town switching votes because his first case got disproven! What do you expect, me to stay on ender even after he debunked my argument?
He asked me if I really thought Ender wanted us to let our guard down. I answered that.
He asked me how I had a case on Ender. I answered that.
He asked me how Ender's response disproved my case. I answered that.
SO WHAT EXACTLY AM I NOT ANSWERING HERE?
See above for my response to scum faking emotion. Ender's emotion is clearly not fake.Maxous wrote:EA defends Ender with the basis that scum don't get this emotional(they can fake it) or that he would be antagonising over a Day-Vog this much.
On the second point.. Javert seemingly suspects Ender(based off his vote). He claims Day-Vig, he says he is going to shoot. One would assume Ender is currently top of his list. Mafia Ender would be far more worried about Mr. Day Vig than Town Ender right at this moment.
As for scum being more worried about a dayvig claim, that's exactly my point! Why would scum see a player claim dayvig, and decide that it would be a fantastic idea to get into a gigantic fight with that player? Ender is clearly not worried about that! Hence, towntell.Do you want your possessions identified?-
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Oso Goon
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- Location: Northern California
It's not inherently needed for me personally. I can't see any reason at all why scum would claim day-vig. It didn't make any sense to me when he made the claim that he might be scum doing it and when I thought on it, it still doesn't.Maxous wrote:I don't fully understand what you mean by "hang the vigkill over the head of a player"
I'm not saying we should put someone at L-1 now but it won't exactly be a disaster if Javert does'nt get an opportunity to shoot today. If a scum self-hammers..we have gotten rid of a mafia member. Happy days.
If used correctly it will be useful but we don't absolutly need it.
Javert has said that he does want to take a shot today. Granted, if we L-1 scum and they self-vote to prevent the shot, that's still good. 1 scum down.
Since I believe the claim, I can't see how it hurts us at all to not L-1 a player that is on his way to claim as it allows us to do both. Pressure before lynch/prevent the day from ending unexpectedly.
I'd have a problem doing that with someone under no or little pressure but in Ender's case, he's at L-2. You (I think it was you Maxous) indicated you were willing to vote but didn't want to L-1 him just yet.
If someone else indicated a willingness to vote Ender that could be read as the L-1 vote (you) and Hammer (other player). In that case, "hanging the vig kill over a player's head" has the same effect as an L-1 vote/Hammer imminent combo.My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.-
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ender241 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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ender241 wrote:Do you guys want me to claim?
Again, i am willing to claim but only if required to. So do you guys want me too???ShowFenchurch: Also ender's logic in vigging me was bad because even if I had self-protected, it wouldn't have lasted through the day. I would have had to make myself dayvig immune for that. But ender got luckyagain.
That's right people! I might be horrible at mafia but i'm a lucky shot.
Taking pre-ins for Smallville (Seasons 1-3) mafia!!-
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Twistedspoon Jack of All Trades
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Necessary Evil Goon
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For the record, I think Javert should shoot whoever he wants. I don't think shooting whoever gets the most votes is the correct way to play a vig.
Why would ender make an excuse for Javert?Maxous wrote:The implication I got was the he voted because Javert was "being a dick". He made an excuse for him.
I won't speak for everybody, but my reasons are: he voted for Javert for not answering questions, he overreacted in a scummy fashion towards Oso's vote by coming up with two more possibilities about Javert that were not evident from his earlier posting and do not fit with a vote, and voting for me for lurking when I'd only been absent for a day.Rhinox wrote:I don't understand the reasoning for sudden wagon on ender. maybe I'll figure it out in the processing, but if someone can give me the bullet point run down I'd apreciate it.
If two people say they would vote you/hammer, then you should claim.ender241 wrote:Do you guys want me to claim?
I don't have any specific reason to think that his emotion is feigned. I think it's risky to label him as town based on that. I need something more solid.Erratus Apathos wrote:Of course scum can feign emotion, but does Ender's emotion look even the slightest bit feigned? To me it's very obviously legitimate, it fits like a glove with his anti-Javert play and makes sense given that he was saying this to Oso who at the time was also upset with Javert's play. I don't see any evidence that his emotion is fake, nor any scum motive for him to have this emotion. Thus, he is town.
It looks to me like he thought he was in trouble and made those other two possibilities up after the fact as a defense.Erratus Apathos wrote: Why does it matter that Ender didn't post the other possibilities? He clearly favored the Javert-scum theory, so kinda obviously his posting is gonna be biased towards mentioning that theory.
Oh, come on, EA! Do you really want to nit pick over something like this? I posted on Friday, wasn't even on the site on Saturday, and posted again on Sunday, so to me at the time, it was one day. What difference does it make that it was technically two days? That's still suspiciously premature to vote for lurking. We clearly didn't have a lurking problem at the time. He even said that he just picked me because I was the lowest on the activity overview. That's not scumhunting. He used a technicallity that doesn't even remotely prove the case he was making in order to excuse his vote.Erratus Apathos wrote:Where are you getting "I'd only been absent for one day" from? There's more than 48 hours between your iso 1 and 2.-
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Me=Weird Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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But even though he didn't think Javert was town, there were still two possibilities for him being town. Not thinking them likely doesn't mean they don't exist.NE wrote:I brought that up because it looked to me like he invented the other two possibilities when he was under pressure. I don't see why he would be campaigning for Javert so hard if he genuinely thought there was a strong possibility that Javert was town. If that possibility is weak, how does that justify his defense?
I…what? This is mafia. The whole game is attacking people. Why did you write this?Maxous wrote:BTW why the heck should Me=Weird be attacking people?
You do realize how close he is to being lynched, don't you? It's about time to ask for a claim.TS wrote:nooo
that's rolefishing
what answer are you expecting? "I'm the cop"?
Why do you think it would be a gambit? What would the point be?Rhinox wrote:I noticed Javert claimed day vig. Probably a gambit. I'm not too concerned about it if its not, as it seems like his shot would not end the day or change the number to lynch causing an inadvertant hammer.
If you want to find out why we're voting ender maybe you should read our posts?
Two things. 1. Why are you so against ender claiming/us finding stuff out about his role? 2. You're implying you would just take him at face value, ignoring possibilities of him being scum. Why are you so convinced of his towniness?TS wrote:personally, no
however it may already be too late since you've already hinted that you're a PR :/Show"Me=Weird did the best "I'm a power role but I'm not going to get targeted" play I think I've ever seen." - Amished
Mini 1267, a 9p Mini Normal is Day 1, page 4.
Cheese Mafia: a 25p(?) large theme about a big corporation buying up all the little individual cheese sellers.
On hold for lack of reviewers. PM me!-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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But you still think Oso is scummy right? That is what I read.NE wrote:I don't try to tie people together until at least one of them is already dead. Oso is less scummy than Twistedspoon, Prosaurus, and ender right now.
Why is what ender did scummier then Oso to switch your vote to ender?
[quote="Juls]It's the way he is presenting his cases thats off to me. When he attacks someone he presents it to the town instead of attacking the person outright and asking them questions. Am I completely off my rocker or does anyone else see what I see?[/quote]
I don't see it
@Juls: It's not anti-town to agree with someone, I usually find scum using others views and buddying up in scum and I recall you doing that in our last game to another player (buddying up)
Nothing so far screams town reading you. Your case on Me=Weird doesn't make sense to me either.
I know some scum will gambit to look town. It's possible ender is scum with a gambit because he's at L-2 that he's hoping for someone to vote so as scum that he could hammer to neuter the claimed vig. But the first time doing it doesn't make sense as scum for there is no reason for the gambit.
hmmmmm,,,, I need to think on this a bit.
Maxous: You seemed like you had a theory on another player then dropped it and had a case on ender (that was already discussed) and EA. What is with the hmmm on TS then dropping it?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Juls Jack of All Trades
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A scum gambit or town gambit? Why would we do that would little pressure on him at all? I didn't assume gambit but I rarely, if ever, gambit myself.Rhinox wrote:I noticed Javert claimed day vig. Probably a gambit. I'm not too concerned about it if its not, as it seems like his shot would not end the day or change the number to lynch causing an inadvertant hammer.
Let's be clear, that was a bit more than a soft claim. It was intended to be caught. It's kinda eating at me to be honest. It was so blatant.Oso wrote:One other point of note. Ender may have made a soft claim here: Right before his NE vote "I'll find out what he is tonight". For my part, I'm still processing that one. Could be awkward wording or an incomplete thought or a soft-claim. I haven't decided which one for myself yet.I am in support of an ender full claim.
In other news, I reviewed a few of Me=Weird's games and have seen him post cases "to town" instead of "direct questioning" as town. But something is still off to me. I don't want to get tunnel vision on it though. I might do some more analysis on it later. It seems the focus is primarily on ender at the moment.
Mod: Please prod/replace Klazham. He has given nothing and I would personally rather see a more active player if he isnt going to participate.
Preview Edit: @farside - See above about Me=Weird. I'm glad you at least commented on it. Which is more than what most did.-------------------------------------
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Juls Jack of All Trades
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Prosaurus Goon
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Because when he did it, he pretty much said he'd shoot whoever it was that put him at L-1 (Or hammered him if he can shoot in twilight.) So people wouldn't vote to avoid being Day Killed.Oso wrote:
It's not inherently needed for me personally.Maxous wrote:I don't fully understand what you mean by "hang the vigkill over the head of a player"
I'm not saying we should put someone at L-1 now but it won't exactly be a disaster if Javert does'nt get an opportunity to shoot today. If a scum self-hammers..we have gotten rid of a mafia member. Happy days.
If used correctly it will be useful but we don't absolutly need it.I can't see any reason at all why scum would claim day-vig.It didn't make any sense to me when he made the claim that he might be scum doing it and when I thought on it, it still doesn't.
Javert has said that he does want to take a shot today. Granted, if we L-1 scum and they self-vote to prevent the shot, that's still good. 1 scum down.
Since I believe the claim, I can't see how it hurts us at all to not L-1 a player that is on his way to claim as it allows us to do both. Pressure before lynch/prevent the day from ending unexpectedly.
I'd have a problem doing that with someone under no or little pressure but in Ender's case, he's at L-2. You (I think it was you Maxous) indicated you were willing to vote but didn't want to L-1 him just yet.
If someone else indicated a willingness to vote Ender that could be read as the L-1 vote (you) and Hammer (other player). In that case, "hanging the vig kill over a player's head" has the same effect as an L-1 vote/Hammer imminent combo.
Why ask? Ifender241 wrote:ender241 wrote:Do you guys want me to claim?
Again, i am willing to claim but only if required to. So do you guys want me too???youwant to claim, then claim. It seems you want to.[Win/Loss-Team]
[2/2 -Town]
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neil1113 Mafia Scum
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Klazham is being prodded.ShowTotal Games Played:17
Last Editted:9-29-11
Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.netArchaebob-Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.
Me=Weird-When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.-
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Oso Goon
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I think you aren't thinking deeply enough.Prosaurus wrote:..
Because when he did it, he pretty much said he'd shoot whoever it was that put him at L-1 (Or hammered him if he can shoot in twilight.) So people wouldn't vote to avoid being Day Killed....
Javert was under NO pressure really at the time of his claim. 2 votes: farside and Twistedspoon (at least TS tried, he forgot to unvote first). There is no reason for him to claim simply to save his own skin at that point. It doesn't need saving.
He committed himself in his vote post to taking a shot today.
4 strong reasons there why his claim is not false:- No reason, that I can think of, for scum to claim just out of the blue like that, especially not a day role where we can see the result in-thread.
- He has committed himself in such a way that he can't really back out of it. So he's not bluffing about being able to kill. He can day kill.
- He has shut off his options. Rarely (I mean as in never) have I personally seen scum shut off their options as completely as that this early in the game.
- He never does mention vigging anyone who votes him.
If he was doing what you think he might be doing (and this is personal opinion here, others may have different views) I would have expected to see it when he was under much more pressure and he would have probably not use a day-vig claim it provable before death. Ender mentioned one: A Bomb. Another would be a Vengeful townie. Both of those are unprovable until lynch.My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.
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