Newbie 1086 (GAME OVER)

[jasonT1981]

Also, why the hell where you still in RVS mode? there is plenty of discussion going.

I'm not; are

you

paying attention?

Very much so paying attention, I really think you are not though..

I have no reason to stick with my randvote, so

unvote

.

Putting matt at L-2 with little more explanation than "I want to get on a bandwagon," though?

That's good enough to get me out of RVS

.

Vote: rockynpoika

bold and blue for emphasis

[jasonT1981]

Mogri,, what do you think of the Matt contradiction that looks like a scum slip to me?

[projectmatt]

I disagree, actually. Mafia is very careful and precise as to what they say

.

I don't get why it made you nervous...

you said mafia know no full bandwagon in RVS is going to start but then said the votes were making you nervous?

Unvote

because the fact that several votes are now on someone I was attempting to RVS makes me very nervous.

the mafia knows that no full bandwagon is going to start and therefore they have nothing to worry about when they are voted. They don't even have to respond. Later in the game, they do, but right now I find it slightly invalid.

makes no sense does it?

that sounds like nervous mafia to me really

unvote
vote:ProjectMatt

So if there never was a real reason that it would take off, then why get nervous about it?

Once again, caution. Obviously the majority vote isn't going to spontaneously fall on one person, and I stand by this statement. It's just the fact that I thought three votes were on Zhang that made me very cautious.

Your attempts at scumhunting are pretty odd to me. Now, presuming that I was mafia who just a made a mistake, what would I be "nervous" about, as you say? I'm curious as to what your reasoning is.

note the bold...

he says scum are careful and precise in what they say... then says about how he is cautious..

Yea, scumslip!

So? I'm sorry, but that's not even close to any kind of slip. Are mafia not careful and precise? Don't try to tell me that they aren't. It doesn't mean that everybody who is slightly cautious is scumtelling. I've been just as cautious as everyone else in this game, including you. With your line of reasoning, I could suspect you.

A mod vote is scummy whereas a random vote is not. The mod is not scum, therefore voting the mod is the same as not voting at all. Not voting does not give town information (early game scum distancing for instance). Voting someone, even if they say it is random, is still forming connections for later.

Post 31- Again saying you are town without trying to prove it. Plus the whole- This isn't OMGUS, but... seems a bit like preemptively trying to defend your post against being called OMGUS = scummy.

While making that post, I actually thought that the mods were playing also. This is my first game here, so I hope you can at least excuse that as an embarrassing mistake.

Also, prove to me that you're town. Do it. Right now. You can't, can you? You can say you're town all you want, but you can't prove it. The only "proof" is in the words that you say, and the things that you do.

Ok, back from my long weekend –

Well last time I checked RVS standed for Random Vote Stage, so yeah.

I think this has already been handled but the theory behind Random Number Generators being scummy is as follows –

A valid vote, regardless of RVS or not, betrays something about the players make-up. Scum, especially have sometimes been known to RVS their partner as a clumsy distancing tactic. Putting your vote in the hands of a randomizer is somewhat seen as an attempt to avoid laying psychological footprints.

I don’t necessarily agree that it is a strong tell but I have seen it from scum before.

The same logic applies to invalid votes (like Mod votes in a non-bastard game). By specifically not voting for anyone you don’t risk alienating a player with a vote (even an RVS vote) and don’t give away any information unnecessarily.

Since the game is on, I'm gonna wait to see the other people's actions are since you know, lurking is quite scummy.

Please elaborate. You are going to sit back passively and let others make moves?

--

I assume that this was a joke? If it's not, then let me know and I think it could serve some very interesting discussion.

No, it is not a joke. Scum have been and will be caught by RVS votes / posts. RVS is, IMO, just a name we use for the part of the game where things get moving. Scummy play can occur then and to dismiss it just because “its RVS” isn’t good Town play.

With that being said, I prefer asking random questions over RVS in order to get the game going.

1. How are random questions going to cause pressure to scum any more than votes?
2. Why didn’t you being your first post with some Random Questions?

--

Implying that he is town is pretty scummy.

Why? The only person a Town player knows 100% to be Town Day 1 is themselves. It is in the role PM from the Mod. I’d like insight into why inferring you are Town is more likely to come from scum.

--

I ask because it makes a difference. A noobtell is much more likely to be a scumtell if there's no noob behind it.

1. What is a noobtell?
2. Why is scummy play from a player suddenly change based on his join date. I had over 2 years of Non-MS forum Mafia experience before I came here. Why should, in my first game, I have been given the benefit of the doubt for being New when I had copious experience? Why should it ever be assumed that anyone new to MS doesn’t have Mafia experience?

I'm making so many mistakes that I probably deserved to be lynched anyway. I thought that, once again, moderators\IC always started with whatever it was that we were doing, regardless of it was an RVS or asking random questions.

Also, I will stand by the fact that I believe question asking can also put pressure on people and get the game going. I can't exactly show you examples, but basically, my line of logic is in the fact that scum is careful. In a lot of cases, they do what exactly they are told to do. If a clear player tells them to jump, they jump. I believe a lot can be found in those kind of things, but it's hard to present without actually doing it, and we already have an interesting conversation going.

Anyway, I've been unexpectedly busy and so far haven't been paying close attention to posts other then the ones I'm responding to. I'll review everything with a careful eye and point out contradictions\things I believe are scumtells tonight, probably.

[rockynpoika]

Oi, can we cut down on the quote boxes?

[jasonT1981]

Matt: Have you ever seen a game elsewhere, were mods have played in their game? that's some bloody bastard modding if you ask me if true.

Have you played Mafia offsite before?
If so can you show us a game were the mod himself plays the game?

it would certainly help backup your standpoint if you could..

[Mogri]

Mogri,, what do you think of the Matt contradiction that looks like a scum slip to me?

It is not a contradiction to say that mafia are cautious and that he is also cautious. Don't be ridiculous.

Not knowing the mod wasn't playing is odd, but not particularly telling one way or the other.

[Mogri]

Not knowing the mod wasn't playing is odd, but not particularly telling one way or the other.

EBWOP: especially since Zengar voted for the mod first.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My reasons for voting matt have been given through the questions I am asking him, particularly because of the way he is discussing the town/mafia dynamic, in short he is the scummiest person to me right now and the person I have the most questions for.

Yet your questions are posed in a manner that indicates little suspicion other than in the volume.

1. Are you suspicion of Zengar and Sisterman also?
2. Do you find him scummy for the contradictions as pointed out by Jason?

--

Putting matt at L-2 with little more explanation than "I want to get on a bandwagon," though? That's good enough to get me out of RVS. Vote: rockynpoika

You’ve just done the same thing you accuse Rocky of … putting someone at L-2 with little reasoning, in your case that you didn’t like him doing so.

If he is scummy for that action what does that say about you?

The fact that you're the one who brought it up indicates that you're hardly neutral in the matter, so it doesn't surprise me that you're jumping down my throat suddenly, especially since I've already indicated you're on my scumdar.

Are you stating that Jason’s reaction to your play is scum driven?

--

So? I'm sorry, but that's not even close to any kind of slip. Are mafia not careful and precise? Don't try to tell me that they aren't. It doesn't mean that everybody who is slightly cautious is scumtelling. I've been just as cautious as everyone else in this game, including you. With your line of reasoning, I could suspect you.

The issue that has been brought forward is a mild case of Cognitive Dissoance – you state that scum are likely to be cautious yet you’ve acted in a manner in-line with that theory.

I'm making so many mistakes that I probably deserved to be lynched anyway

1. What mistakes are you making that you feel are lynchworthy?
2. You didn’t answer my second question – if you believe in Random Questions as a scum-hunting tool why didn’t you post some in your first post?

[Mogri]

You’ve just done the same thing you accuse Rocky of … putting someone at L-2 with little reasoning, in your case that you didn’t like him doing so.

If he is scummy for that action what does that say about you?

That I misread the vote count, I guess. I actually thought he only had one vote on him. I'm much happier with a Rocky wagon than a matt wagon, though, since the reasoning against him is somewhere between mostly and entirely baseless:
- Jason: His unvote sounds like nervous mafia.
- Space Pope: He implied that he was town.
- Rocky: He said that he was being cautious by unvoting, then also mentioned that mafia are cautious about their word choices.

I don't understand this wagon at all. None of that comes off as particularly suspect to me.

As far as the Rocky wagon is concerned, Sisterman's vote seems to be a randvote and I doubt it'll stick once he gets back around. So while he's technically L-2 (and I don't know how I missed this), he's not really being hounded the way projectmatt has been in the last few posts.

By the way, you also have a vote on him and you didn't unvote. Do you have some suspicions that you haven't let us in on?

Are you stating that Jason’s reaction to your play is scum driven?

No, just reactionary. It's essentially a very watered down form of OMGUS. Not to say I don't have my reasons, just that this isn't one of them.

[projectmatt]

Okay, huge post time.

I won't bother quoting, instead I'll just say the usernames of the people that have made a certain post, to avoid confusion.

@Rocky - post 16
This is an RVS. You claim that by him voting randomly, and using a randomizer, we can't gain any information from his vote. I presume that you would know by now that the point of an RVS is not to find an RVS by the methods of who someone votes, but by how the person reacts to the vote. You did the exact same offense by voting somebody because they have no avatar. It's essentially just a random choice. But yet, you claim that him doing it randomly was "as scummy as possible". I want you to elaborate more on this.

Also, a few posts below that, you claim that you don't believe RVS has any information, but yet you still participate in it. Why is this?

@Jason, post 22
I'm sorry, I can't really point out specifically what it is, but something about the wording has been gnawing at me the moment I first read it. It seems like you are almost afraid to question him, so you use the fact that it's 3:am in order to make up an excuse. You really came off as nervous to me in this post.

The same thing can be seem in post 33. A sense of nervousness, and then an unrelated "lol" right after. Note that at the time, it was in the afternoon, and therefore it being late can no fit as a valid excuse.

@Rocky, post 43
It was page 2, and yet you're attempting to rush the three other players into voting. That just seem odd to me. I believe that discussing and searching first is better then blindly voting. It makes me feel like you're afraid to look too far into this.

@Mogri, post 45
Although I do not believe that the BW on me started for a very good reason, I'll go ahead and say that you seem to be over exaggerating what Rocky was doing. He wasn't "just trying" to get on a bandwagon. Did you not realize or read his reasoning's?

@Jason, post 48
You posted a while ago claiming that I slipped, and at that point, I had yet to respond. But for some reason you claimed that I have drastically moved up in your scum meter. Why the sudden change inbetween those few posts?

Jason, your post number 54 is confusing to me. I'm not sure what you are implying. I am a frequent player of epicmafia, so yes, I have experience in this game, but mafiascum is unlike this website. There are no such things as RVS's or even asking random questions to get discussion going. Mods can play games as freely as they desire.

Anyway, this is all I have for the moment. I unvote sisterman and withhold future voting until I see more responses and discussions.

[Mogri]

@Mogri, post 45
Although I do not believe that the BW on me started for a very good reason, I'll go ahead and say that you seem to be over exaggerating what Rocky was doing. He wasn't "just trying" to get on a bandwagon. Did you not realize or read his reasoning's?

I've already explained more than once why the mattwagon doesn't make sense to me. Shall I do a PBPA on post #43? Defending you is quickly becoming more trouble than it's worth

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 1:

Rockynpoika - 3 (MagnaofIllusion, TOGTFO, Mogri)
projectmatt - 3 (Jasont1981, Space Pope, Rockynpoika)
Jasont1981 - 1 (runner)
TOGTFO - 1 (projectmatt)

Not voting: (ZengarZombolt)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Sisterman has requested replacement

Day 1 will end no later than 2:30PM CST on Saturday April 23rd.

[TOGTFO]

Replacing in. Reading up. I assume I can post here cause I know my role but I am not sure who I am replacing. Sisterman?

[Zachrulez]

TOGTFO replaces Sisterman.

Welcome to the game TOGTFO!

[ZengarZombolt]

Damn it, yesterday was not a good day. Headaches everywhere.
That being said, let's address what's been asked:

In post 20, you say you are going to wait to see other actions (lurking) because lurking is scummy. Please clarify.

There wasn't too much action going on from some players, specially the ones that still had their RVS votes at the time.

Also, do you see anything scummy about using a random generator or voting for the moderator?

In all honesty those actions were due to me taking the start of RVS as a moment to jokevote. It's when people react to said jokevotes that the game picks up.

Also, what do you think about Sisterman and projectmatt, particularly about the case for projectmatt?

On the Sisterman case, it's somewhat confused as it's entirely based on only one post, and a short one at that. That being said, as I mentioned, it's a joke vote. There's not any info behind such a vote because it's a joke, and as such it has no serious meaning, so the point stands, not only for me but to other early Randvotes like Mogri's, Rocky's and Matt's.

As for the Sisterman case, it seems rather more interesting. Yes, something about the timestamps excuse on #26 is somewhat irking me, but Jason's #27 is much, much worse in my eyes.

Votes are serious things as they apply pressure on players this early. Of course there's not going to be a full blown bandwagon as it would be stupid scumplaying. Besides it's evident by now the pressure has shifted towards other players, namely Rocky and Matt.

On #41, he mentions how being cautious is a scumslip. Of course scum take care of what do they say, but then so does town. After all, the point of mafia is to choose your words in a way that drives suspicion far from you while hunting and accusing scum to the other players. At least this is how town plays.

Another point that I find interesting is how Rocky

vocally

bandwagons on projectmatt. This sounds too suspicious to my ears.

Vote: JasonT1981
FoS: Rockynpoika

And now some questions.
@Jason: So why is town supposed to be less careful with what they say? Isn't that going to make them prone to commit mistakes that scum can use to their advantage?
@Rocky: Why do you think the case on Matt is more promising? I'm curious.


Oh damnit Sisterman replacement. Oh well, that means a fresh new face for us to examine. Bring it on!

[Space Pope]

A mod vote is scummy whereas a random vote is not. The mod is not scum, therefore voting the mod is the same as not voting at all. Not voting does not give town information (early game scum distancing for instance). Voting someone, even if they say it is random, is still forming connections for later.

Post 31- Again saying you are town without trying to prove it. Plus the whole- This isn't OMGUS, but... seems a bit like preemptively trying to defend your post against being called OMGUS = scummy.

While making that post, I actually thought that the mods were playing also. This is my first game here, so I hope you can at least excuse that as an embarrassing mistake.

Also, prove to me that you're town. Do it. Right now. You can't, can you? You can say you're town all you want, but you can't prove it. The only "proof" is in the words that you say, and the things that you do.

This also answer's MOI's question to me. Implying that you are town is scummy. Town do not try and imply that they are town, they show it through their actions. Scum on the other hand have anti-town actions mixed in with town-looking actions. By implying that they are town, they try to mitigate their anti-town actions.

Also-

Ah, I'm excited to finally see this start of this. This is my first game

but I've played several hundred games of mafia on another website

so I think I'll understand the basics, at least. This site seems to have the same basic terminology that most mafia games do, so let's get this started.

While making that post, I actually thought that the mods were playing also. This is my first game here, so I hope you can at least excuse that as an embarrassing mistake.

Tell me, on this other site were the mods players? Didn't that seem to be a bit unbalanced if the mods know all of the roles in the game and who has them?

Ya... lying scum.

[TOGTFO]

Ok so I have read up and have a few comments off the top of my head. I will have to reread to get in depth with some things though.

Before I start questioning anything, a general little nit pick that I have is the way people quote. Either people have large quote boxes or they say something like, "post 45- blah blah blah." This is annoying because then I have to go look up post 45 and read it then read his response. I realize how inconvenient it is to edit your quote boxes but maybe if that is too much, you can at least state what issue you are addressing in your post before posting a response? Just spit balling here.

Unvote

Right off I disliked the banter between experienced players vs inexperienced players. It seems to me that the SE and IC are doing wonderful at sparking conversation but that conversation has been purely them vs the noobs. This is probably because noobs make "noobtells" as Mogri would call it. I am going to hope that the game doesn't continue like this.

I am probably the most "newbie" out of everyone here and do not understand RVS very well but i think i like it. My biggest issue is that people are seeing things that are not there. It is not scummy to use a random voter, not in a newbie game when there is no way that people are analyzing our phycological process for random voting. With that said, the term scummy is up for debate.

@Matt- Why is it that you are trying to label how scum play? I disagree entirely with that fact because I believe scum can be just as aggressive as town. I find nervous players can play as scum or town. And in case you didn't know, Jason did catch you on a slip. You adamantly stating that scum play cautious means that you are probably scum because your entire game play has been backtracking what you have said for fear of looking scummy.

More soon.... going to my next class.

[TOGTFO]

Going to put my FoS on Matt for now. Not sure if that is where my vote is going to stay at though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Project

– why did you specifically avoid responding to my post at 57 when you posted at 59?

--

Implying that you are town is scummy.

Without getting into a game theory argument just know it will take more than that even at this early stage to sway me.

Tell me, on this other site were the mods players? Didn't that seem to be a bit unbalanced if the mods know all of the roles in the game and who has them?

Ya... lying scum.

So what is he lying about specifically? That he thought Zach was playing in this game? Regardless of what you assert he is lying about explain this - what is his motivation to say that and what does he gain as scum by doing so?

--

No, just reactionary. It's essentially a very watered down form of OMGUS.

So you infer that Jason is scummy for undermining you after you had stated suspicion of him but now say it isn’t scummy?

That I misread the vote count, I guess. I actually thought he only had one vote on him.

That doesn’t answer the question of whether you are scummy for doing exactly the same thing as Rocky.

I'm much happier with a Rocky wagon than a matt wagon, though, since the reasoning against him is somewhere between mostly and entirely baseless:
- Jason: His unvote sounds like nervous mafia.
- Space Pope: He implied that he was town.
- Rocky: He said that he was being cautious by unvoting, then also mentioned that mafia are cautious about their word choices.

Again, this doesn’t address at all whether you are similarly scummy to Rocky for taking actions exactly the same as him.

Let me also address the following theory floated by you –

You don’t ascribe to that Matt is being scummy.
Jason, Pope and Rocky have all given reasons (however little you believe them) for their votes.
The two other people voting for Rocky were doing it in RVS and thus you are the only vote on Rocky with any real game reasoning (no matter how little others may believe you).
You conclude that a wagon on a player with 2 RVS votes is better than a wagon with 0 RVS votes?

That chain of logic makes little sense to me. I’m reading over-justification of your vote in this explanation from you. It’s Page 3 of the game. There aren’t going to be slam-dunk solid reasons for any wagon.

By the way, you also have a vote on him and you didn't unvote. Do you have some suspicions that you haven't let us in on?

No, I did not have unstated suspicions. I do not keep my vote idle. I was looking in thread for scum motivated play to make an actual vote.

UNVOTE: Rocky
VOTE: Mowgri

[Space Pope]

MOI- ??? Why did you only quote the first sentence in the paragraph as an answer to your question? I said exactly why it is scummy. Now onto the two quotes I posted. He is lying that he thought the mod was in the game. 1) It is an excuse to why he voted Zach. 2) He lied. Lynch all liars. What excuse would he have for lying about that as town? He is scum.

[TOGTFO]

Tell me, on this other site were the mods players? Didn't that seem to be a bit unbalanced if the mods know all of the roles in the game and who has them?

Ya... lying scum.

Lying. Not indicative of scum. It seems to me that he is just boosting his own ego but there is no reason as scum to lie about how many games he has played.


@MOI- What is your viewpoint on Lynch-all-Liars?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI- ??? Why did you only quote the first sentence in the paragraph as an answer to your question?

Because the rest of the post was extraneous to my response. I disagree fundamentally that with your assertion that only scum say / infer they are Town. The rest of that paragraph was only there to support your premise. I don’t prefer to quote anything that isn’t relevant.

Now onto the two quotes I posted. He is lying that he thought the mod was in the game. 1) It is an excuse to why he voted Zach. 2) He lied. Lynch all liars. What excuse would he have for lying about that as town? He is scum.

Projectmatt never voted Zachrules. That was Zengar. Strike one to the theory.

Can you prove he didn’t think Zach was in the game? I agree it doesn’t seem logical but to outright state you know what was in Project’s head is fairly absurd.

Your inability to conceive of a Town motivation for lying (which once again isn't assured to have even happened) about the Mod being in the game does not mean it could only be scum motivated.

Again – what does he gain as scum by stating that he thought Zach was in the game. Keep in mind that Zengar had already posted his Mod vote before Project had posted himself.

--

@MOI- What is your viewpoint on Lynch-all-Liars?

Lynch all Liars, like all policy lynches, is flawed at best. I see it implemented as often as an excuse for Scum to effect a bad lynch as I do Town using it to lynch scum.

[Mogri]

So you infer that Jason is scummy for undermining you after you had stated suspicion of him but now say it isn’t scummy?

No, that is exactly the opposite of what I said. I said that I suspect Jason, but not because he jumped on me.

That doesn’t answer the question of whether you are scummy for doing exactly the same thing as Rocky.
...
Again, this doesn’t address at all whether you are similarly scummy to Rocky for taking actions exactly the same as him.

Let's go back over this:
- I thought there was one vote on Rocky at the time.
- I actually placed the third vote on Rocky, not the second.
- You pointed this out to me.
- Having realized this, I kept my vote where it was, for the reasons detailed earlier: A) Rocky wasn't going to stay at L-2; and B) nothing Matt has done strikes me as scummy, yet Rocky and Jason seem very eager to put vote pressure on him.

The two other people voting for Rocky were doing it in RVS and thus you are the only vote on Rocky with any real game reasoning (no matter how little others may believe you).
You conclude that a wagon on a player with 2 RVS votes is better than a wagon with 0 RVS votes?

That chain of logic makes little sense to me. I’m reading over-justification of your vote in this explanation from you. It’s Page 3 of the game. There aren’t going to be slam-dunk solid reasons for any wagon.

Here's why it should make perfect sense to you: I am now the only voter on rocky. Just as I predicted, the other votes that were already on him didn't stick.

No, I did not have unstated suspicions. I do not keep my vote idle. I was looking in thread for scum motivated play to make an actual vote.

Even if you're right on every point you've made about me, you haven't explained why it strikes you as "scum motivated play."

[projectmatt]

A mod vote is scummy whereas a random vote is not. The mod is not scum, therefore voting the mod is the same as not voting at all. Not voting does not give town information (early game scum distancing for instance). Voting someone, even if they say it is random, is still forming connections for later.

Post 31- Again saying you are town without trying to prove it. Plus the whole- This isn't OMGUS, but... seems a bit like preemptively trying to defend your post against being called OMGUS = scummy.

While making that post, I actually thought that the mods were playing also. This is my first game here, so I hope you can at least excuse that as an embarrassing mistake.

Also, prove to me that you're town. Do it. Right now. You can't, can you? You can say you're town all you want, but you can't prove it. The only "proof" is in the words that you say, and the things that you do.

This also answer's MOI's question to me. Implying that you are town is scummy. Town do not try and imply that they are town, they show it through their actions. Scum on the other hand have anti-town actions mixed in with town-looking actions. By implying that they are town, they try to mitigate their anti-town actions.

Also-

Ah, I'm excited to finally see this start of this. This is my first game

but I've played several hundred games of mafia on another website

so I think I'll understand the basics, at least. This site seems to have the same basic terminology that most mafia games do, so let's get this started.

While making that post, I actually thought that the mods were playing also. This is my first game here, so I hope you can at least excuse that as an embarrassing mistake.

Tell me, on this other site were the mods players? Didn't that seem to be a bit unbalanced if the mods know all of the roles in the game and who has them?

Ya... lying scum.

The mods actually were indeed playing. If you don't believe me, go check the site out. Clearly the people who have been trustworthy enough to be made a moderator are trustworthy enough to enjoy a game.

You're doing something illogical by assuming that I'm "lying" because I've played games on another website. The playing style is much different from here, and once again, the evidence for that is within the website.

Ok so I have read up and have a few comments off the top of my head. I will have to reread to get in depth with some things though.

Before I start questioning anything, a general little nit pick that I have is the way people quote. Either people have large quote boxes or they say something like, "post 45- blah blah blah." This is annoying because then I have to go look up post 45 and read it then read his response. I realize how inconvenient it is to edit your quote boxes but maybe if that is too much, you can at least state what issue you are addressing in your post before posting a response? Just spit balling here.

Unvote

Right off I disliked the banter between experienced players vs inexperienced players. It seems to me that the SE and IC are doing wonderful at sparking conversation but that conversation has been purely them vs the noobs. This is probably because noobs make "noobtells" as Mogri would call it. I am going to hope that the game doesn't continue like this.

I am probably the most "newbie" out of everyone here and do not understand RVS very well but i think i like it. My biggest issue is that people are seeing things that are not there. It is not scummy to use a random voter, not in a newbie game when there is no way that people are analyzing our phycological process for random voting. With that said, the term scummy is up for debate.

@Matt- Why is it that you are trying to label how scum play? I disagree entirely with that fact because I believe scum can be just as aggressive as town. I find nervous players can play as scum or town. And in case you didn't know, Jason did catch you on a slip. You adamantly stating that scum play cautious means that you are probably scum because your entire game play has been backtracking what you have said for fear of looking scummy.

1. How is the term "up for debate?" I just don't quite understand that statement and I would like you to elaborate more.

2. You are also putting words in my mouth at the moment. I never stated that nervousness makes you "probably scum", but it can certainly be a scum tell, as can aggressiveness. Some people play differently.

People call lurking a scumtell, but there's a difference between just not saying anything at all and attempting to fit in. There are two different kinds of lurking, and to me, one is a scumtell and the other isn't. By saying that nervousness can be a scumtell, I don't mean that any sign of it is.

MOI- ??? Why did you only quote the first sentence in the paragraph as an answer to your question? I said exactly why it is scummy. Now onto the two quotes I posted.

He is lying that he thought the mod was in the game.

1) It is an excuse to why he voted Zach. 2)

He lied. Lynch all liars.

What excuse would he have for lying about that as town? He is scum.

Please note the things in bold. Your pushiness on me is astounding, especially when you can't even give any kind of proof that I would lie. To be honest, scrolling through your posts, it just looks like you're clinging to excuses of voting me.

Tell me, on this other site were the mods players? Didn't that seem to be a bit unbalanced if the mods know all of the roles in the game and who has them?

Ya... lying scum.

Lying. Not indicative of scum. It seems to me that he is just boosting his own ego but there is no reason as scum to lie about how many games he has played.


@MOI- What is your viewpoint on Lynch-all-Liars?

I actually didn't lie about the number of games I've played, and I can present proof for that, also. I'm not attempting to "boost my ego", as you put it by saying so. I was just saying I know the basic game mechanics, and like you have stated before, introductions are important, aren't they?

I have suspicions, but I'm having trouble deciding who to vote right now. I'm going to essentially do something that I've reasoned might help me a little and voice one of my theories and see how other's respond.

fos's:

rockynpoika and jasonT1981

From what I can tell, Jason seems to be attempting to stray as far away from Rocky as possible, but he's desperately clinging to suspect me. A while back he posted that "he doesn't like Rocky's play, but Matt has drastically shot up my scum meter", and that was the end of it.

Saying you suspect somebody and then avoiding them like the plague = a possible light bus.

[Mogri]

Matt, can you provide a link to the site? or its name or something?