Open 296: MAFIA WINS GONNA TEACH YOU TO BURN

[Iecerint]

/confirm

[Iecerint]

VOTE: mozamis

scum

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VOTE: Hero764

scum.

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Nacho, is mozamis scum?

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STOP HAVING FUN GUYS.

THIS IS NO PLACE FOR THAT.

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Bella...I'm mocking you for being anti-fun in that post... XD

[Iecerint]

I don't think you're likely to catch anyone with random questions as structured as that. Awkward RVS moments are probably more fruitful. But I'll play along:

1. EST
2. I prefer indians.
3. No.
4. mebe idk.

[Iecerint]

Well, stuff has already happened. Nacho made strong claims about who is scum; they're not made-up. Bella jumped around with RVS in ways that I can only explain to myself as manufactured WIFOM. We have players choices to match or alter or switch their RVS stuff.

These kinds of question games can be nice if there's no content, but I don't think that's true right now.

[Iecerint]

Vote: The Kingpin

For worrying too much about your random vote.

Mute and Iec are obvtown.
Hero is possible scum, but not definite scum like kingpin.

This is the Nacho post I am referring to.

[Iecerint]

My random vote wasn't random. As such, it is not a stretch for me to take a post like that at face value. He also directly alluded to my post (i.e. he recognized that my vote wasn't trivial).

To clarify the basis of my original vote, Hero repeated his original joke vote even though the basis for it no longer applied. This speaks to an intent to repeat the prior alignment's modus operandi, which is most consistent with town->scum switching.

Kingpin's second vote was scummy because he's too concerned about obeying the "norms" of the joke phase. A self-conscious concern for obeying norms over playing the game is most consistent with scum alignment.

At this point, it's probably worth knowing who was scum before the PMs were redistributed. Claim it if it applies to you.

Do not claim anything else.

[Iecerint]

@ lane -- Because a handful of players made post-redistribution RVS votes that riffed off of their pre-redistribution RVS votes. Knowing their pre-redistribution alignment is relevant.

@ mute -- Clearly it's not that I'm ready to lynch either of those players. Page 1 tells are page 1 tells. That doesn't mean that page 1 tells are not often legit.

@ Kingpin -- Why do you think we should wait...?

[Iecerint]

Were moz, mute, Kingpin or Hero scum with you? Those are the players for whom it may be relevant.

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Scumhunting > complaining about having "no information" IMO but w/e bro.

I am weirded out by lane's choice not to disclose his former scumfriends and TK's awkwardness about this issue.

[Iecerint]

Do not claim anything else.

<_<

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I asked you for the bare minimum, but you could respond in multiple ways. Your choice, for whatever reason, was to respond minimalistically. It is not trivial.

It's true that the other ex-scumfriends are largely irrelevant for analyzing their own posts since said posts didn't exist back then, but it still reflects on your current alignment and the possible universe given that you're scum. For example, if you were and remain scum and refuse to reveal you scumfriends, I could see that as evidence of awkward reroll results.

[Iecerint]

@ ThAdmiral -- A few hours into the game, the roles were re-RNG'd because of a mod error. The first few RVS votes were pre-redistribution.

@ moz -- You go down alleys to scumhunt. That is how this game works. If you have a preferred alley, I encourage you to explore it.

For example, if you want to interrogate me in a particular way, that would constitute a viable substitute to what I've tried doing over the past few pages. Complaining about the fact that something is being done D1 at all is unlikely to lead anywhere, though.

[Iecerint]

I do not have a scumread on mozamis and I have never had one. My mozamis vote was pre-redistribution.

Also, I didn't recognize that moz was the Mute voter at the time, and I probably would've chosen someone else had I noticed it.

Lane should probably disclose the original scum (or the players themselves should come on). It's free, easy information and conditionally informative in the event that lane is scum (i.e. I think his reluctance to claim his friends upfront may imply awkward redistribution).

I agree that there's no residual information to be gained from comparing pre-redis post-redis posts themselves, though.

[Iecerint]

Oh. Well. Good point.

I thought it was becoming a bit of a distraction and wanted to get it taken care of.

[Iecerint]

I think ThAdmiral is voting Kingpin.

Noted. RangeroftheNorth replaces Mute.

[Iecerint]

Indeed.

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So you think he's town, but you're voting him because he did something scummy, or do I have the pronouns mixed up?

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I had a town read on moz before that post.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: TheKingpin

I agree with Nacho.

[Iecerint]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheKingpin

[Iecerint]

You're complaining about cases on you instead of scumhunting?

[Iecerint]

@ lane -- He's not really defending himself. At the time I posted that, he hadn't even made explicit reference to one of Nacho's points. He has since come up with "well town could do that too you know," which doesn't do much more for me.

It's telling that whereas the main case on Hero AFAICT is basically the same as the case on him, he's sticking to a Hero vote. <_<

[Iecerint]

^ lol

mozamis is defending Kingpin more than I have ever seen one player defend another player EVER. especially D1.

Votecount
Mozamis (2): Hero764, MrTrow

The_Kingpin (5): Nachomamma8, ThAdmiral, Iecerint, Stefunny, RangeroftheNorth

Stefunny (3): lynchking, Bella, The_Kingpin
lane0168 (1): Mozamis
not voting: lane0168

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: April 17th
Empking replaces lynchking

[Iecerint]

That, and his reaction to pressure. His play is inconsistent with someone who wants to find scum while being consistent with someone who wants to survive. Ergo, scum.

The pattern starts with RVS, but it does not end there.

[Iecerint]

I actually disagree. The only players who have reason to defend anyone strongly D1, unless there are masons or something, are scum. They defend scumfriends to defend scumfriends and defend town given adequate pressure to get Cassandra points. Town doesn't know what's up, and town behavior D1 reflects that.

The only other explanation I can come up with for moz's extreme behavior is that he feels strongly about sticking to his guns even when he starts to realize that it's irrational. Cuz that used to happen to me as town sometimes when I was first starting to play the game.

[Iecerint]

Well, yeah. It's not as if mozTown knows your alignment.

To be clear -- his behavior is only irrational if he is town. It's rational -- for scumdefense or Cassandra -- if he's scum. That's why I think it's a likely scumtell.

[Iecerint]

Of course. That's how the game works.

Other option exploration is a possibility, but those apparently most interested in doing so -- you and moz -- seem more interested in defending you than in finding a viable altwagon sooo.

[Iecerint]

Your "omg I am pro-town you will be sorry lol" ATE isn't convincing anyone, btw.

[Iecerint]

<_<

Unvote

[Iecerint]

@ MrTrow -- The intent was that people not claim that they "used to be Cop" or whatever. Variations in that kind of wording could let scum know who was unlikely to be a PR post-redistribution.

I thought he'd come out and say "my scumfriends were A&B" after I asked "were they CDE," but he chose not to. That's what I was referring to. I don't think he explained his choice in terms of letter-of-the-request as you intimate afterward, but that would be relevant if it were.

Cop CC is certainly welcome, especially because immediate reactions to the claim've already narrowed it down.

[Iecerint]

@ moz --

From your posts, I didn't get the impression that you strongly thought that Kingpin was town. Rather, you thought he was being attacked unfairly.

EDIT: Oh, you make that clear.

Well, I dunno what to tell you. I haven't really gotten the impression that you're very interested in finding scum this game. You seem more like a referee. This may just be your personality or whatever, but I don't think it's a very pro-town way to approach mafia.

[Iecerint]

Where did you suggest NL...?

I guess it's standard play if the Cop is outed.

[Iecerint]

Ranger, could you express the meta information you claimed on moz in a little more detail?

[Iecerint]

I think a handful of players haven't posted since the claim innit?

Preview Edit: Ah well...

[Iecerint]

@ moz -- Follow-the-cop isn't a good strategy unless the Cop is revealed. The ideal play changed when the Cop was revealed.

I'm not sure how this works, but I can see two options:

1) Kingpin names players to be killed each day. Except for doctor CC, we make no other discussion.
2) We NL every day until the doctor dies; then the Cop reveals his results.

I'm not sure which is normative. Either way

Looks like Kingpin already answered. Well, whatever.

[Iecerint]

CC = counter-claim

Like, in the event that you were scum fakeclaiming to be the doctor to expose him, etc.

[Iecerint]

proxy'd to KP.

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Night happened. That's why the game was locked.

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It is standard for all dead players to flip unless scum has a janitor or other specialized role.

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That's L-1. No more No Lynches until Kingpin posts.

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I suppose it amounts to the same thing.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Stefunny

I figure this is the outcome regardless of KP's result at this point.

[Iecerint]

YOU LIKE ME.

YOU REALLY REALLY LIKE ME.

GO TAUN.

I have a crush

[Iecerint]

M.M

[Iecerint]

lolBella

Ranger has been obvobvtown ever since lane supported his lynch way back. The only conceivable mislynch today should've been Bella. Kudos to Ranger for doing the meta and recognizing that it wasn't necessarily the case, contrary to appearances, even if it didn't really affect the ultimate outcome.

Good bus on lane from MrTrow.

[Iecerint]

The main thing I gleaned from the last mafia kill was that MrTrow was likely scum...you were the only one to call him scum.

Your kill could also be explained away other ways, though. For example, your lane wagon at an important time made you obvtown. I don't remember you making specific claims about Bella per se (I certainly don't know what would've motivated them other than PoE), but I may've missed it.